Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Eod100

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

This tweet is crazy, I knew flu put a strain on hospitals each year but had no idea of the actual extent in actual numbers

https://twitter.com/care2much18/status/1282004491714342912?s=21

I think he's being fairly selective in comparing those figures tbh. Guess flu period is over more concentrated period. There is a vaccine for it but the country doesn't have restrictions every year because of it so not sure it's an accurate comparison

ACitizenErased

expectationlost wrote: »

(by reports, none of them are isolating)



how do you know that?

We know that because of the American tourists being interviewed arriving at the airport. That's not really debatable.

Martina1991

igCorcaigh wrote:

I guess it might be reasonable to suggest that shared sequences between different coronaviruses might confer some degree of immunity to covid-19 virus... I get the logic, just don't know how plausible it is.

Prof M or Martina, any views?

I wouldnt have any concrete opinions on that but it could be possible to be of some benefit.

Like WUG said

What Username Guidelines wrote:

Yeah that’s the general theory, and even if it doesn’t confer immunity to this strain of it, coronaviruses in their nature come in varying waves with seasonal influence so that should impact it. Like most other things (long term effects, length of immunity, etc) it’s all a waiting game and observing what happens.

expectationlost

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We know that because of the American tourists being interviewed arriving at the airport. That's not really debatable.

where is this ? I listened to newstalk no-one said they wouldn't quarantine https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/almost-10000-new-cases-texas-flight-arrives-dublin-dallas (shouldn't have travelled here anyway though)

Eod100

Fairly incredible how Taiwan with population of 23m has handled coronavirus. Only 6 deaths and last one on 11th May.

Guess they benefit being an island and also learned lessons from SARS in 2004. Know they're not a member of WHO because of China but would be good if WHO could learn lessons how they handled it.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282027395625754626

caveat emptor

Eod100 wrote: »

Fairly incredible how Taiwan with population of 23m has handled coronavirus. Only 6 deaths and last one on 11th May.

Guess they benefit being an island and also learned lessons from SARS in 2004. Know they're not a member of WHO because of China but would be good if WHO could learn lessons how they handled it.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282027395625754626

Yeah they treated it for what it was.
An initial sharp lockdown would have allowed us to get back to normal. Imagine we could be in croker now?

Our strategy of allowing anyone in means that staying home was a waste of time. Cases will build until a critical mask and we’ll be asked to ‘lockdown’ again. Kids won’t be able to go to school etc. Staycation more likely to get infected than staying home.

Would love to spend the money I usually spend on a two week sun holiday at home down the country. There isn’t a hope I’d rent a cottage if there were a chance of US family were quarantining in it. Wouldn’t trust using the same teaspoon tbh.

We’ve made a sacrifice and now are locked out from domestic tourist activities due to the non zero risk of interacting with someone coming from a high risk country.

bb1234567

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

This tweet is crazy, I knew flu put a strain on hospitals each year but had no idea of the actual extent in actual numbers

https://twitter.com/care2much18/status/1282004491714342912?s=21

17/18 was a very bad flu season in Europe/US so nothing typical about it at all..I think excess deaths in UK and Italy that winter were the highest since WW2. So, I think he picked a particular year for this post to mkae it more dramatic.

Eod100

I know you have to put China's figures with a bag of salt but still.. Jaysus https://twitter.com/CarlosdelRio7/status/1281768120496070662?s=19

Plumbthedepths

Eod100 wrote: »

Fairly incredible how Taiwan with population of 23m has handled coronavirus. Only 6 deaths and last one on 11th May.

Guess they benefit being an island and also learned lessons from SARS in 2004. Know they're not a member of WHO because of China but would be good if WHO could learn lessons how they handled it.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282027395625754626

An island nation that can control access.

CalamariFritti

caveat emptor wrote: »

Ah the Donald defence. Nice logic.

Whether Donald may have said that too or not the logic is certainly not 'nice' in the way you mean it but its simply sound logic.

If x number of infections are being found based on n tests guess what happens when you double n?

To be certain we would need to know more. For example did the added tests come from an increased number of people presenting symptoms or were they just random tests. Stuff like that. But when you increase testing its a reasonable expectations that the number of positives will increase too.

caveat emptor

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Whether Donald may have said that too or not the logic is certainly not 'nice' in the way you mean it but its simply sound logic.

If x number of infections are being found based on n tests guess what happens when you double n?

To be certain we would need to know more. For example did the added tests come from an increased number of people presenting symptoms or were they just random tests. Stuff like that. But when you increase testing its a reasonable expectations that the number of positives will increase too.

Yeah but positivity rates are a function of the number of people being tested and the prevalance in the community. Both of which are liable to change.

LUBBOCK, Texas — On June 8, the seven-day COVID-19 test positivity rate was under 2 percent. On Wednesday, only a month later, that number had risen to over 12 percent, according to data provided to EverythingLubbock.com by the City of Lubbock.

https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/lubbocks-covid-19-test-positivity-rate-is-on-the-rise/

Quantum Erasure

FishOnABike wrote: »

It's a goofy thing to do alright.

They're Donald Ducked

Neamhshuntasach

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah but positivity rates are a function of the number of people being tested and the prevalance in the community. Both of which are liable to change.






https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/lubbocks-covid-19-test-positivity-rate-is-on-the-rise/

And that's the difference between what Trump was going on about and happening here. The US ramped up tests to very high numbers. And they obviously found more cases. But their positivity rate shot up which shows that the increase was not only that they were discovering more. It was spreading and increasing more too.

Whereas in a Ireland at present, we've more than doubled the tests and positivity rate stayed the same. So while cases are higher, it doesn't necessarily mean cases are rising here. And as we know, a number of the cases we've reported lately have been from clusters. If our cases rise and they are related to clusters, we're still doing well as we should be able to trace and isolate. We've seen this with some recent clusters here. As have a number of other countries handling this well.

s1ippy

I was hopeful that the decline in deaths relative to number of cases was a good thing but it might not be:
https://medium.com/the-atlantic/covid-19-cases-are-rising-so-why-are-deaths-flatlining-3d801eb78871

There may be a lag in reporting of up to a month. A huge surge could be on the way in Brazil and America especially.

Also the narrative that the disease is "less deadly" now might lead to carelessness and an increase in the number of people contracting covid. Long-term injury resulting from covid could certainly be predicted as a major killer in decades to come, though obviously we won't be able to see the consequences of this until it's too late to be able to stop it.

ChelseaRentBoy

s1ippy wrote: »

I was hopeful that the decline in deaths relative to number of cases was a good thing but it might not be:
https://medium.com/the-atlantic/covid-19-cases-are-rising-so-why-are-deaths-flatlining-3d801eb78871

There may be a lag in reporting of up to a month. A huge surge could be on the way in Brazil and America especially.

Also the narrative that the disease is "less deadly" now might lead to carelessness and an increase in the number of people contracting covid. Long-term injury resulting from covid could certainly be predicted as a major killer in decades to come, though obviously we won't be able to see the consequences of this until it's too late to be able to stop it.

The consecquence are here and now and very real lung damage being one .

GerryFog

Eod100 wrote: »

I know you have to put China's figures with a bag of salt but still.. Jaysus https://twitter.com/CarlosdelRio7/status/1281768120496070662?s=19

It is disgraceful that we are allowing Americans entry into Ireland.

Irish people are literally going to die because of this decision.

petes

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

The consecquence are here and now and very real lung damage being one .

And you know the long term effects?

Renjit

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Virus is out of control now in southern United States but yet Disneyland opened its doors back up today in Florida.

Mad country.

They have lowered the bar for other countries to compare to :pac:

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/gpollara/status/1282236080201388035

stephenjmcd

He's so out of touch with what's going on its unbelievable

https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1282240952300703745?s=19

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

He's so out of touch with what's going on its unbelievable

https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1282240952300703745?s=19

Dont think hes adjusting too well to being front and centre

Eod100

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah they treated it for what it was.
An initial sharp lockdown would have allowed us to get back to normal. Imagine we could be in croker now?

Our strategy of allowing anyone in means that staying home was a waste of time. Cases will build until a critical mask and we’ll be asked to ‘lockdown’ again. Kids won’t be able to go to school etc. Staycation more likely to get infected than staying home.

Would love to spend the money I usually spend on a two week sun holiday at home down the country. There isn’t a hope I’d rent a cottage if there were a chance of US family were quarantining in it. Wouldn’t trust using the same teaspoon tbh.

We’ve made a sacrifice and now are locked out from domestic tourist activities due to the non zero risk of interacting with someone coming from a high risk country.

I think something has to give. Can't see how travel from high risk areas is sustainable without mandatory quarantine or proper enforcement of self-isolation.

Immigration needs to be given powers to turn around anyone who's not here for essential travel or for anyone not here for more than 14 days or anyone who can't prove they're staying in the one place for 14 days.

ChelseaRentBoy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

He's so out of touch with what's going on its unbelievable

https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1282240952300703745?s=19

Frankly embarrassing

YellowBucket

stephenjmcd wrote: »

He's so out of touch with what's going on its unbelievable

https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1282240952300703745?s=19

Well that message is clear as mud!

I encountered an English couple at a market who were telling me how it was great that UK nationals didn’t have to quarantine on arrival and that it only applies to people from the continent.

They’d been talking to a French woman, who lives in Cork and was working at a market stall, who seemed really annoyed with them. She had very carefully self isolated for 14 days on return from France (for a family matter) and had been a avoiding non essential travel.

They seemed to be taking the view that they felt sorry for her having to go through all that hassle. She was seeing it as ensuring West Cork was kept safe.

There was a debate over whether or not it applied to inbound tourists from GB and they concluded it definitely did not.

So well done government for making that abundantly clear at airports, on flights and in ports.

Are we getting communication advice from the Boris Johnson school of muddled messaging?

Eod100

YellowBucket wrote: »

Well that message is clear as mud!

I encountered an English couple at a market who were telling me how it was great that UK nationals didn’t have to quarantine on arrival and that it only applies to people from the continent.

They’d been talking to a French woman, who lives in Cork and was working at a market stall, who seemed really annoyed with them. She had very carefully self isolated for 14 days on return from France (for a family matter) and had been a avoiding non essential travel.

They seemed to be taking the view that they felt sorry for her having to go through all that hassle. She was seeing it as ensuring West Cork was kept safe.

There was a debate over whether or not it applied to inbound tourists from GB and they concluded it definitely did not.

So well done government for making that abundantly clear at airports, on flights and in ports.

Are we getting communication advice from the Boris Johnson school of muddled messaging?

I think that's more the attitude of some people in UK thinking Ireland is UK's back garden. Wonder did they vote for Brexit..

YellowBucket

Eod100 wrote: »

I think that's more the attitude of some people in UK thinking Ireland is UK's back garden. Wonder did they vote for Brexit..

They often don’t even fully comprehend it’s a different country. It’s a different thread but, it’s often seen as a U.K. region by people in England, which is because of the CTA and mutually friendly arrangements in both directions. We grant a lot more rights to UK nationals than we do EU nationals, as do they for Irish nationals in the U.K.

Their assumption is often that Ireland is probably a bit like the Channel Islands - ambiguous status but still “the home countries”

It’s usually not out of malice, just ignorance of geography and history.

Our COVID-19 messaging needs to be very clear though & to take that level of lack of awareness into account.

Rob A. Bank

YellowBucket wrote: »

They often don’t even fully comprehend it’s a different country. It’s a different thread but, it’s often seen as a U.K. region by people in England, which is because of the CTA and mutually friendly arrangements in both directions. We grant a lot more rights to UK nationals than we do EU nationals, as do they for Irish nationals in the U.K.

Their assumption is often that Ireland is probably a bit like the Channel Islands - ambiguous status but still “the home countries”

It’s usually not out of malice, just ignorance of geography and history.

From 20th March all travellers arriving on on Jersey, other than essential workers, must self-isolate for 14 days.

Also anyone arriving in Guernsey from anywhere must self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival from midnight on 19th March.

I wish we were more like the Channel Islands in this regard !

Rob A. Bank

!

hotmail.com

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

From 20th March all travellers arriving on on Jersey, other than essential workers, must self-isolate for 14 days.

Also anyone arriving in Guernsey from anywhere must self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival from midnight on 19th March.

I wish we were more like the Channel Islands in this regard !

I think we've become too worried about potentially pissing off other countries.

Eod100

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

From 20th March all travellers arriving on on Jersey, other than essential workers, must self-isolate for 14 days.

Also anyone arriving in Guernsey from anywhere must self-isolate for 14 days upon arrival from midnight on 19th March.

I wish we were more like the Channel Islands in this regard !

In UK there's a £1,000 fine if you don't self-isolate. Need to have that here at minimum

NegativeCreep

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

!

Who calls us that except ourselves?

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976?s=21

theballz

I’m absolutely furious.

My friend was in town lastnight. She said she was chatting to irish guy who just got back from Florida that morning. He didn’t give a f**k about self isolating nor did he care about the fact he was coming from the one of the worst states in the US for covid cases. At the point she got chatting to him he had said it was his 4th bar in city centre that he visited with his friends.

She cleverly got his name and social media account on Instagram. This morning, we called the local Garda station in his area - the Garda was absolutely useless and unhelpful. He stated “have you googled what to do when you meet someone like this? I’m unsure how we can help.”

I was told to ring the anonymous tip off line and leave a message. In the meantime this f*cking clown is out and about around Dublin ignoring guidelines and potentially spreading this virus from place to place.

This country is f**king joke and a second wave is closer than we think.

caveat emptor

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976?s=21

Fair play to that person. Has the moral courage to go against his own industry. Crazy carry on.

I don’t know why the gov doesn’t block them arriving and then incentivise people to holiday. I.e if you book 5 nights gov pays for the 6th . That way money goes direct to the people who need it to stay afloat.

Creative solutions needed for this once in a century problem.

I’m not going anywhere until it’s resolved.

Boggles

Sure we are constantly learning, we might apply the knowledge to Wave 3 The Reckoning!

wadacrack

Should be implemented here

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1282282916937191424

stephenjmcd

wadacrack wrote: »

Should be implemented here

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1282282916937191424

To be honest its not really a solution either while its a good idea, firstly we don't have the capacity and secondly you could easily test negative on arrival and test postive the next day.

Renjit

Boggles wrote: »

Sure we are constantly learning, we might apply the knowledge to Wave 3 The Reckoning!

Only in the third part the ring of covid will be destroyed by the fires of mount doom

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976?s=21

Fair play to him to cancelling.

Its not mandatory and at this stage its just a joke, go with the travel lists applied with the rest of the EU and get it over with.

Eod100

wadacrack wrote: »

Should be implemented here

https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1282282916937191424

I don't think that would work with the incubation period being 14 days. Could test negative on arrival but could test positive within a few days so gives false sense of security I think.

Eod100

theballz wrote: »

I’m absolutely furious.

My friend was in town lastnight. She said she was chatting to irish guy who just got back from Florida that morning. He didn’t give a f**k about self isolating nor did he care about the fact he was coming from the one of the worst states in the US for covid cases. At the point she got chatting to him he had said it was his 4th bar in city centre that he visited with his friends.

She cleverly got his name and social media account on Instagram. This morning, we called the local Garda station in his area - the Garda was absolutely useless and unhelpful. He stated “have you googled what to do when you meet someone like this? I’m unsure how we can help.”

I was told to ring the anonymous tip off line and leave a message. In the meantime this f*cking clown is out and about around Dublin ignoring guidelines and potentially spreading this virus from place to place.

This country is f**king joke and a second wave is closer than we think.

I didn't even think there was one? That would really put people off going out to pubs and restaurants so could end up hobbling the domestic industry. This half arsed approach is stupid.

Also are Gardai not the ones meant to be enforcing the slef-isolation? What are they meant to do if someone is clearly breaking it? Shrug their shoulders?

wadacrack

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To be honest its not really a solution either while its a good idea, firstly we don't have the capacity and secondly you could easily test negative on arrival and test postive the next day.

Its not perfect but would help mitigate the risk

theballz

Eod100 wrote: »

I didn't even think there was one? That would really put people off going out to pubs and restaurants so could end up hobbling the domestic industry. This half arsed approach is stupid.

Also are Gardai not the ones meant to be enforcing the slef-isolation? What are they meant to do if someone is clearly breaking it? Shrug their shoulders?

Apparently so but the Garda in Rathmines station don’t seem to be too aware of this.

His response was “Well what do you expect us to do?”

Typical lazy Irish public sector mentality (I know they are not all like this - but I’m clearly furious.) This upper class Gonzaga fool feels he is bigger than society and can get away with what he likes.

The tip off line was the same one they have had for years. It is not dedicated to covid.

It’s so wrong.

Eod100

theballz wrote: »

Apparently so but the Garda in Rathmines station don’t seem to be too aware of this.

His response was “Well what do you expect us today?”

Typical lazy Irish public sector mentality (I know they are not all like this - but I’m clearly furious.) This upper class Gonzaga fool feels he is bigger than society and can get away with what he likes.

It’s so wrong.

I think to be fair to Gardai I don't know is there much clarity on how rules should be enforced but would think they'd be proactive about it.

Did your friend try tell bar staff/manager? It's in their best interests not to have someone who could have it and be spreading it. Would be very bad for their business if infection happened there even if it's through no fault of their own

LawBoy2018

Upon arrival in Vancouver, travellers are tested at the airport and then quarantine in a hotel until they test negative. There is absolutely no reason as to why that couldn't be implemented here.

EDit

Eod100 wrote: »

I didn't even think there was one? That would really put people off going out to pubs and restaurants so could end up hobbling the domestic industry. This half arsed approach is stupid.

Also are Gardai not the ones meant to be enforcing the slef-isolation? What are they meant to do if someone is clearly breaking it? Shrug their shoulders?

My understanding is that they don’t have any legal basis to enforce anything other than completion of the self-isolation form when visitors arrive at the airport/port.

In others words, other than giving someone a talking to, they Gards are powerless

Eod100

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Upon arrival in Vancouver, travellers are tested at the airport and the quarantine in a hotel until they test negative. There is absolutely no reason as to why that couldn't be implemented here.

Varadkar said it's because state doesn't have enough hotel rooms. But surely it would only be from high risk and having quarantine would really discourage travel unless for an essential reason and staying longer than 14 days. Plus if people have to pay for some of the accomodation.

Eod100

EDit wrote: »

My understanding is that they don’t have any legal basis to enforce anything other than completion of the self-isolation form when visitors arrive at the airport/port.

In others words, other than giving someone a talking to, they Gards are powerless

I thought they or HSE were calling people and even reports of Gardai calling to door to check on people? But yeah if its not mandatory and so can't be enforced you'd wonder what's the point of this charade tbh?

EDit

Eod100 wrote: »

I thought they or HSE were calling people and even reports of Gardai calling to door to check on people? But yeah if its not mandatory and so can't be enforced you'd wonder what's the point of this charade tbh?

Yes, I’ve heard about the telephone calls as well, but I believe that they are hoping that the “threat” is sufficient to keep people in line. If someone isn’t where they said they would be or is found to be out and about (when they should be in isolation) I don’t think there is an actual law being broken, so the Gards can’t charge the person with anything.

Obviously, that should be changed ASAP, otherwise our rules are toothless

FishOnABike

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Upon arrival in Vancouver, travellers are tested at the airport and then quarantine in a hotel until they test negative. There is absolutely no reason as to why that couldn't be implemented here.

Because of the incubation period a person could test negative on arrival but have CoViD-19 and be capable of spreading it during their stay.