Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Rob A. Bank

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976?s=21

That company deserves all the support we can give them after their courageous stance in trying to stop covid spread around the island... doing what the government should have done.

And it will cost them financially after refusing the Yanks.

Thinking of a cycling holiday in Clare or the west of Ireland ?

Their website... https://e-whizz.com/wordpress/

Eod100

EDit wrote: »

Yes, I’ve heard about the telephone calls as well, but I believe that they are hoping that the “threat” is sufficient to keep people in line. If someone isn’t where they said they would be or is found to be out and about (when they should be in isolation) I don’t think there is an actual law being broken, so the Gards can’t charge the person with anything.

Obviously, that should be changed ASAP, otherwise our rules are toothless

I know the constant line is they don't want to make a measure mandatory unless they have to. But it's a really head in sand approach. Masks should have been brought in weeks ago, this should have been brought in weeks ago.

It's easier to enforce while travel is low and also sends out message to people thinking of coming here

LawBoy2018

FishOnABike wrote: »

Because of the incubation period a person could test negative on arrival but have CoViD-19 and be capable of spreading it during their stay.

But wouldn't it be more effective than the current system?

Eod100

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976?s=21

Massive respect to them. But it's a joke that the onus is on businesses to refuse business. They've gone above and beyond.

LawBoy2018

Eod100 wrote: »

Varadkar said it's because state doesn't have enough hotel rooms. But surely it would only be from high risk and having quarantine would really discourage travel unless for an essential reason and staying longer than 14 days. Plus if people have to pay for some of the accomodation.

There's plenty of hotel rooms and hotelliers would only be delighted with the increased capacity. The people travelling should pay for the accomodation themselves, as they do upon arriving in Vancouver.

theballz

Eod100 wrote: »

I think to be fair to Gardai I don't know is there much clarity on how rules should be enforced but would think they'd be proactive about it.

Did your friend try tell bar staff/manager? It's in their best interests not to have someone who could have it and be spreading it. Would be very bad for their business if infection happened there even if it's through no fault of their own

I don’t know if the bar staff were told. I’ve called Donnybrook station who were a little more helpful but stated since the covid cases have died down they have stopped calling to houses (I wouldn’t be surprised if they never did.)

HSE have explained that you have to complete a form in Dublin airport upon arrival for the HSE to have on file. They do not test in the airport.

When you hear about measure taken in the likes of Vancouver compared to Dublin, you can only be concerned.

expectationlost

Pygmalion owner Paul McGlade said: "People were ringing the guards to complain but they were wrong because no one in the queue is drinking. We've lines and stickers on the ground to help social distancing. The crowds are due to us having a Michelin Guide pizza chef." https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/friday-night-on-the-town-is-just-not-the-same-anymore-in-post-lockdown-ireland-39360562.html the Q was the problem

expectationlost

anybody confront all these America tourists they are seeing?

Eod100

theballz wrote: »

I don’t know if the bar staff were told. I’ve called Donnybrook station who were a little more helpful but stated since the covid cases have died down they have stopped calling to houses (I wouldn’t be surprised if they never did.)

HSE have explained that you have to complete a form in Dublin airport upon arrival for the HSE to have on file. They do not test in the airport.

When you hear about measure taken in the likes of Vancouver compared to Dublin, you can only be concerned.

Fair play for being so proactive. Shouldn't have to be your responsibility at all. This relaxed approach is a joke tbh.

expectationlost

https://twitter.com/e_whizz/status/1282199534093950976

Eod100

Eod100 wrote: »

In UK there's a £1,000 fine if you don't self-isolate. Need to have that here at minimum

The quarantine in the UK is as weakly enforced as Ireland. Only 40% of people are called and as far as I understand no one has ever been fined.

The whole self isolation thing in Ireland and the UK is based on an implied threat, and a stirring up of public anger in order to shame holidaymakers to not go to Spain for their 2 weeks.

Obviously wouldn’t work on Americans, as those travelling are those that wouldn’t give a feck about quarantine or the virus generally

expectationlost

theballz wrote: »

I’m absolutely furious.

My friend was in town lastnight. She said she was chatting to irish guy who just got back from Florida that morning. He didn’t give a f**k about self isolating nor did he care about the fact he was coming from the one of the worst states in the US for covid cases. At the point she got chatting to him he had said it was his 4th bar in city centre that he visited with his friends.

She cleverly got his name and social media account on Instagram. This morning, we called the local Garda station in his area - the Garda was absolutely useless and unhelpful. He stated “have you googled what to do when you meet someone like this? I’m unsure how we can help.”

I was told to ring the anonymous tip off line and leave a message. In the meantime this f*cking clown is out and about around Dublin ignoring guidelines and potentially spreading this virus from place to place.

This country is f**king joke and a second wave is closer than we think.

ring the Department of Foreign Affairs, and let them see if he filled in a form.

Eod100

She's dead right. Social Democrats dont get much attention because of their size but think Shortall has been strong throughout this. https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1282227066101018625?s=19

stephenjmcd

expectationlost wrote: »

ring the Department of Foreign Affairs, to see if he filled in a form.

Pointless, GDPR you can't request that.

There isn't any way to report any of this because technically no laws have been broken. The Gardai can't do anything about it.

theballz

Eod100 wrote: »

Fair play for being so proactive. Shouldn't have to be your responsibility at all. This relaxed approach is a joke tbh.

I feel like it’s our duty. When we see our frontline workers have to go through and how the mental strain this whole thing has put on people (particularly my parents,) I can to sit by and watch - no one should.

I’ve sourced where this guy lives, to the point I’ve now called the Garda back and given the address. I’ve tried to hold them accountable and stated that this is a case and needs to be looked into.

The Garda on the phone said “I will have to speak with my supervisor.”

Rob A. Bank

Eod100 wrote: »

Massive respect to them. But it's a joke that the onus is on businesses to refuse business. They've gone above and beyond.

This fantastic run may be coming to an end.

The present government's inaction and dithering is a carbon copy of the fiasco we had with Italian tourists around St. Patricks Day.

And we all know the high price we paid for that.

Eod100

expectationlost wrote: »

ring the Department of Foreign Affairs, to see if he filled in a form.

They're hardly going to tell someone with GDPR. Think it's a HSE record rather than DFA too

theballz

expectationlost wrote: »

ring the Department of Foreign Affairs, to see if he filled in a form.

It’s not my job to do that.

expectationlost

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Pointless, GDPR you can't request that.

you don't have to get the answer just give them the info

expectationlost

theballz wrote: »

It’s not my job to do that.

well your friend went to the trouble of ringing the gardai so she might aswell ring the DFA

expectationlost

Eod100 wrote: »

They're hardly going to tell someone with GDPR. Think it's a HSE record rather than DFA too

its being run by the DFA



you don't have to get the answer just give them the info __________________

stephenjmcd

theballz wrote: »

I feel like it’s our duty. When we see our frontline workers have to go through and how the mental strain this whole thing has put on people (particularly my parents,) I can to sit by and watch - no one should.

I’ve sourced where this guy lives, to the point I’ve now called the Garda back and given the address. I’ve tried to hold them accountable and stated that this is a case and needs to be looked into.

The Garda on the phone said “I will have to speak with my supervisor.”

Look your right in what your saying but I don't know what you expect the Gardai to do, they can't physically make anyone self quarantine, there's no laws for them to enforce here.

Whoever answered the phone will speak to a sergeant and be told there's nothing they can do.

I know its not what you want to hear but they can't look into something where no offence has been committed

expectationlost

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Look your right in what your saying but I don't know what you expect the Gardai to do, they can't physically make anyone self quarantine, there's no laws for them to enforce here.

Whoever answered the phone will speak to a sergeant and be told there's nothing they can do.

I know its not what you want to hear but they can't look into something where no offence has been committed

can they not pay him a friendly visit...

Eod100

expectationlost wrote: »

its being run by the DFA



you don't have to get the answer just give them the info __________________

It would likely be INIS if not HSE but it gets provided to HSE regardless of who takes details at airport for contact tracing I would think

stephenjmcd

expectationlost wrote: »

can they not pay him a friendly visit...

And do what exactly ?

mloc123

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And do what exactly ?

Tell him a curtain twitcher on boards it very unhappy with him...

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

It would likely be INIS if not HSE but it gets provided to HSE regardless of who takes details at airport for contact tracing I would think

Yup HSE public health get all the forms filled out.

expectationlost

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And do what exactly ?

have a discussion with him about it

Eod100

mloc123 wrote: »

Tell him a curtain twitcher on boards it very unhappy with him...

That's not fair tbh. Someone breaking guidance. If Gardai who have rang and called before now somehow don't or can't enforce then how were they already? I don't want to meet anyone who's been from high risk area who hasn't self isolated in a pub. I'd aim insults at selfish idiots who are doing this not people rightly concerned about it

BorneTobyWilde

China 2 new cases yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-pW0uX1wTs

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

That's not fair tbh. Someone breaking guidance. If Gardai who have rang and called before now somehow don't or can't enforce then how were they already? I don't want to meet anyone who's been from high risk area who hasn't self isolated in a pub. I'd aim insults at selfish idiots who are doing this not people rightly concerned about it

All that was happening was a phone call or the odd house visit. If you didn't answer the phone or weren't at home there was sweet fa they could do.

There isn't and never was any enforcement. Only offence is if you don't fill in the form.

mandrake04

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

But wouldn't it be more effective than the current system?

Its now believed most effective to test on day 3, 11 and 14 of quarantine, also some people have tested positive 19/20 days after being infected. 14 days maybe not enough.

Testing at an airport is a joke, you could have been infected anytime within the 72 hours before the test (eg. airport/plane) and will probably not have enough virus in the nose or throat to give good enough sample to be separated and amplified.

The test window really only starts 3-4 days of actual infection.

theballz

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And do what exactly ?

Let him know that they know he has gone against government guidelines and reiterate the message. These yuppie lads would hate the idea of a Garda car parked outside there house.

Let’s be honest, the guards in donnybrook are hardly upto there eyes dealing with the gangsters in the area.

stephenjmcd

theballz wrote: »

Let him know that they know he has gone against government guidelines and reiterate the message. These yuppie lads would hate the idea of a Garda car parked outside there house.

Let’s be honest, the guards in donnybrook are hardly upto there eyes dealing with the gangsters in the area.

If someone doesn't care about 14 days self quarantine I highly doubt the words of a garda are going to change their mind. I get your coming at this with the best of intentions and fair play to you but realistically nothing is going to happen here.

The whole set up here is just a joke at this stage. Fill in a form and off you go, should have applied the European travel list

Rob A. Bank

The HSE Passenger Location Form clearly states that "It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form" and the offence is "punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both"

I fail to see why the Gardai cannot enforce it !

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

All that was happening was a phone call or the odd house visit. If you didn't answer the phone or weren't at home there was sweet fa they could do.

There isn't and never was any enforcement. Only offence is if you don't fill in the form.

Grand but the poster can say that without the curtain twitcher remark then

Eod100

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The HSE Passenger Location Form clearly states that "It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form" and the offence is "punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both"

I fail to see why the Gardai cannot enforce it !

That's just the form. The only mandatory thing facrcically. Should be an undertaking on form though that if they don't comply would be fined but need more legislation then

ACitizenErased

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The HSE Passenger Location Form clearly states that "It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form" and the offence is "punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both"

I fail to see why the Gardai cannot enforce it !

Offence to fill in misleading info =/= failing to quarantine. Just means lying about where you’re gonna be staying.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If someone doesn't care about 14 days self quarantine I highly doubt the words of a garda are going to change their mind. I get your coming at this with the best of intentions and fair play to you but realistically nothing is going to happen here.

The whole set up here is just a joke at this stage. Fill in a form and off you go, should have applied the European travel list

I think someone can be detained if they have it and don't self isolate to protect public health. Should be same for people who refuse to quarantine from high risk areas. Too much is at stake here

caveat emptor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Look your right in what your saying but I don't know what you expect the Gardai to do, they can't physically make anyone self quarantine, there's no laws for them to enforce here.

Whoever answered the phone will speak to a sergeant and be told there's nothing they can do.

I know its not what you want to hear but they can't look into something where no offence has been committed

Given that you have been a big advocate for returning to normal and by that I mean going for a pint. The story about your grand dad was nice and I’d have same mentality at that stage in my life.

How do you feel that you could bump into some gob****e who doesn’t give a fvck about trying to quarantine?

Should we all just renege and accept our faith that a second wave could happen and we must pay the associated cost.

It’s easy to say there is nothing we can do but it’s hard to think of ways to come up with actual solutions.

Rob A. Bank

Eod100 wrote: »

That's just the form. The only mandatory thing facrcically. Should be an undertaking on form though that if they don't comply would be fined but need more legislation then

The form asks them to provide the address they will be staying at for the 14 days self isolation.

If they are out and about they obviously provided false information "

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The HSE Passenger Location Form clearly states that "It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form" and the offence is "punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both"

I fail to see why the Gardai cannot enforce it !

You provide the address at which you are resident. Failure to do that is what can be punished. Read the form carefully. There is nothing saying on the form that there is any sanction if, while being resident at that address, you head off to the pub and house parties.

I do agree that if an American provides a certain address then goes touring and stays at a different hotel to that on the form which they have not stated, then they can be fined

Other than that, there is nothing that the Gardai can do. Absolutely nothing

More effective to just stop Americans coming in

Eod100

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The form asks them to provide the address they will be staying at for the 14 days self isolation.

If they are out and about they obviously provided false information "

That's just providing the information though. Doesn't go beyond that. I think its ridiculous but unfortunately that is the position

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The form asks them to provide the address they will be staying at for the 14 days self isolation.

If they are out and about they obviously provided false information "

You can be out and about but still resident at the address stated on the form

Rob A. Bank

Deleted User wrote: »

You can be out and about but still resident at the address stated on the form

Hmmmm... so we need a new form, with teeth this time !

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

You can be out and about but still resident at the address stated on the form

And there's no enforcement if you just flout the recommendations. Guards can't do anything if you choose to run naked through a crowded downtown screaming Viva Covid at the top of your lungs (bar some other disturbing the peace or whatever laws.)

If, instead, masks were mandatory indoors and it was enforceable by the guards, and travelers from hotspots were banned (as was pointed out here, travelers from the UK were banned during a hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the mid '90s(?)), Ireland might not have a big uptick in cases and deaths.

It's a matter of will and enforcement.

I've no hope anything will change, though, not before the disease spikes. Best to prep now for a future long lockdown imo.

Eod100

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Hmmmm... so we need a new form, with teeth this time !

I think mandatory quarantine either in hotels or not and fines if you break it. Give power to immigration to turn anyone here from high risk area for less than 14 days and anyone staying in one place for less than 14 days and then travelling. With form someone should ask for proof of accommodation for 14 days. If this was in Japan or somewhere organised it would be a no brainer. The brining in things and not thinking about enforcement or rules to back them up is very Irish causal approach which really isn't good enough tbh

Rob A. Bank

Deleted User wrote: »

You provide the address at which you are resident. Failure to do that is what can be punished. Read the form carefully. There is nothing saying on the form that there is any sanction if, while being resident at that address, you head off to the pub and house parties.

I do agree that if an American provides a certain address then goes touring and stays at a different hotel to that on the form which they have not stated, then they can be fined

Other than that, there is nothing that the Gardai can do. Absolutely nothing

More effective to just stop Americans coming in

I agree totally about stopping them coming in.

That address issue might be worth looking into if they are found along the Wild Atlantic Way.

The whole thing is a joke at this stage.

mandrake04

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Hmmmm... so we need a new form, with teeth this time !

They probably will do that, unfortunately they probably just have to learn a costly lesson first.

ACitizenErased

The GAA clubs in West Cork have been allowed to resume play. Great news.