Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

mloc123

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Northern Ireland is also doing good. We need to work together in the fight of this.

We don't need to ban flights and ferries or ban Irish coming back. We need mandatory quarantine for people coming into the country, none of this self-isolation sh!t.

How did mandatory quarantine work out in Australia? Who would guess, packing people together into quarantine hotels would actually create clusters...

ChikiChiki

Anyone hear that piece on Sarah McInerney there??

FFS, reported that people traveled from all over and attended a house party in Killarney at a rented house and one of the tools that attended tested positive for Covid-19 the day before attending the party.

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

Well economically speaking.
When you have to impose rolling lockdowns to prevent economic damage year after year there comes a point that governments need to look beyond the immediate election horizon.

It makes sense I'm afraid.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/08-05-2020-commemorating-smallpox-eradication-a-legacy-of-hope-for-covid-19-and-other-diseases

I have no interest in a two and fro with you as I had this conversation further back in the thread. What you are proposing won't happen it is not just economically damaging but the societal damage is also huge plus there is also that small matter of the six counties.

mloc123

mloc123 wrote: »

How did mandatory quarantine work out in Australia? Who would guess, packing people together into quarantine hotels would actually create clusters...

And those people out in the community would also create clusters.

Quarantining has been really effective in the countries that implemented it. The fact I can return to Ireland and realistically do what I want isn't good.

stephenjmcd

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Northern Ireland is also doing good. We need to work together in the fight of this.

We don't need to ban flights and ferries or ban Irish coming back. We need mandatory quarantine for people coming into the country, none of this self-isolation sh!t.

Mandatory isn't going to happen. Attorney general advice to government has been and continues to be that legally its extremely difficult

stephenjmcd

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Anyone hear that piece on Sarah McInerney there??

FFS, reported that people traveled from all over and attended a house party in Killarney at a rented house and one of the tools that attended tested positive for Covid-19 the day before attending the party.

Been in the news since late last week.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Mandatory isn't going to happen. Attorney general advice to government has been and continues to be that legally its extremely difficult

I think that excuse is used when they don't want to do something. I'm sure if there was a will they could at least have a fine like UK.

Drumpot

Don’t some asian places have some sort of scanning device in shops?

So could we not make it mandatory to download COVID app for anybody living or coming into the country? Have a lot of shops (certainly popular shops) have these scanners that maybe do random checks on shoppers and if you don’t the app you get in trouble?

There is mostly compliance to these things (the threat is enough for most people), yoh will always hey inconsiderate morons putting everybody else at risk for their own pleasure but I think this would mostly be followed.

Maybe this isn’t feasible but we need to have a compromise while there is no vaccine if we want to open up the economy and allow travel in/out. Why is there no talk of how we adapt, everything seems to be open or close....

Zonda999

Goldengirl wrote: »

Some feel that the HEPA filtration on planes is good enough to filter everything .
I don't think so . Only larger particles and droplets , not viruses.
And only some planes have the state of the art filtration system .
Don't know for sure but would imagine your average bucket flight on a cheap airline would not have the best system .
Might be worth checking before you fly .

The jury seems to be out but I haven't seen any media reports pointing out planes as a particular issue, surely at this point there would have heard if planes were a particular issue, passenger aircraft have been flying throughout this thing around the world.

https://simpleflying.com/hepa-filters/

The above article goes through how HEPA filters work, in theory they should be very effective at stopping the virus but at the same time even with masks I imagine there is still arisk to people sitting immediately next to someone with the virus on a flight of a few hours

Most common passenger aircraft appear to have these filters with the exception of some small regional aircraft, I have no doubt that of the current fleet of European passenger aircraft, 99% would have HEPA filters. The Boeing 737 (Ryanair use) and Airbus A320 series (Aer Lingus use) have them for sure and these are the two most common short haul passenger aircraft in the world.

snotboogie

caveat emptor wrote: »

We are going to have eradicate this. Can we just get on with it so we can get back to normal.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

More sensationalist headlines. It is absolutely standard for antibody level to drop off in the months after fighting off a virus. This is assumed in most of the vaccine trials.

Zonda999

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Mandatory isn't going to happen. Attorney general advice to government has been and continues to be that legally its extremely difficult

I think political will would go a long way here, would people really be pushing to send any new law in this area to the Supreme Court in order to challenge it? I very much doubt it.

Its futile at this point though I think, if any action hasn;t been done by now then I doubt it will be.

snotboogie

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Correct but we will need to:

a) Build a wall between Ireland and Northern Ireland. Reach an agreement with Northern Ireland to work together
b) Ban all passenger flights and ferries. Enforce mandatory 14 day quarantines for all people entering the country
c) Ban repatriation of Irish citizens into Ireland. Enforce mandatory 14 day quarantines for all people entering the country

Fixed for you

stephenjmcd

Zonda999 wrote: »

I think political will would go a long way here, would people really be pushing to send any new law in this area to the Supreme Court in order to challenge it? I very much doubt it.

Its futile at this point though I think, if any action hasn;t been done by now then I doubt it will be.

You'll always get some idiot who will, the likes of Gemma etc

Drumpot

Zonda999 wrote: »

The jury seems to be out but I haven't seen any media reports pointing out planes as a particular issue, surely at this point there would have heard if planes were a particular issue, passenger aircraft have been flying throughout this thing around the world.

https://simpleflying.com/hepa-filters/

The above article goes through how HEPA filters work, in theory they should be very effective at stopping the virus but at the same time even with masks I imagine there is still arisk to people sitting immediately next to someone with the virus on a flight of a few hours

Most common passenger aircraft appear to have these filters with the exception of some small regional aircraft, I have no doubt that of the currently fleet of European passenger aircraft, 99% would ahve HEPA filters. The Boeing 737 (Ryanair use) and Airbus A320 series (Aer Lingus use) have them for sure and these are the two most short haul passenger aircraft in the world.

Being in close proximity in an enclosed environment increases your chances of contracting the virus. I’d love to see scientific peer review evidence of how effective these filtration systems are with regards to COVID. I’d be very cynical of why this information isn’t available. Surely it’s in airlines interest to prove beyond doubt that planes are safe, if these filtration systems were as effective as being implied, they would be promoting the results of tests all over the place.

But there’s not just planes when it comes to travel. It’s getting to and from airports. Interacting with countless different people from all corners of the world, sometimes just getting connecting flights with no capacity to trace when a person gets infected in an airport.

Like schools, airports/planes are a vital part of economies and our way of living. I don’t think we will find definitive evidence that proves they are safe. We will just get ambiguous statements about them being safe, probably any snippets of information that suggests they aren’t so bad will be loudly promoted and maybe some anecdotal evidence that tries to herd us into accepting its grand.

Rob A. Bank

A cautionary tale

State of Victoria, Australia (pop 6,630 million).

That population is comparable to the island of Ireland and like us the virus was under good control until just recently.

Then illicit sex between private guards and quarantined travelers plus passing around a cigarette lighter leads to… what looks like the beginning of exponential growth.



The virus found a small weakness in their excellent defenses and exploited it.

Yet we allow people from virus ridden hot-spots like Texas to roam free around our country.

And the only assurance we get is that the cabinet might discuss it next week.

FFS

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

A cautionary tale

State of Victoria, Australia (pop 6,630 million).

That population is comparable to the island of Ireland and like us the virus was under good control until just recently.

Then illicit sex between private guards and quarantined travelers plus passing around a cigarette lighter leads to… what looks like the beginning of exponential growth.



The virus found a small weakness in their excellent defenses and exploited it.

Yet we allow people from virus ridden hot-spots like Texas to roam free around our country.

And the only assurance we get is that the cabinet might discuss it next week.

FFS

If it doesn't spike a lot in Ireland, there must be immunity and way bigger spread than currently thought.

Away With The Fairies

mloc123 wrote: »

How did mandatory quarantine work out in Australia? Who would guess, packing people together into quarantine hotels would actually create clusters...

The Australians are thick as fcuk if what they say is true. Security getting the ride from diseased fcukers.

AlmightyCushion

Deleted User wrote: »

If it doesn't spike a lot in Ireland, there must be immunity and way bigger spread than currently thought.

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

ACitizenErased

I emailed all my TDs. Sinn Fein are the only ones who responded. No response from the Taoiseach, Minister for Public Expenditure and Minister for Foreign Affairs who are supposed to be “my representatives”.

Drumpot

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

A cautionary tale

State of Victoria, Australia (pop 6,630 million).

That population is comparable to the island of Ireland and like us the virus was under good control until just recently.

Then illicit sex between private guards and quarantined travelers plus passing around a cigarette lighter leads to… what looks like the beginning of exponential growth.



The virus found a small weakness in their excellent defenses and exploited it.

Yet we allow people from virus ridden hot-spots like Texas to roam free around our country.

And the only assurance we get is that the cabinet might discuss it next week.

FFS

Think of economies boom bust cycle. This happens over and over again because we rely on the same flawed economics. We bury our heads in the trough while the going is good and wonder what happened when the food supply slows down.

It’s the same thing here. No foresight in Jan/February, panic and then mostly focused on full steam ahead.

Contact app and masks is a start, but we need to use this time better. Reminds me of Bruce Aylward in Feb saying “prepare yourself, bring your population with you”. Right now we should be working on plans to prepare for a massive surge over the coming months. Not by shutting everything down, but by implementing all recognised measures that the most successful countries have done.

This is the same as buying salt for potentially snowy weather for the roads in winter. You don’t know if it’s gonna snow but you stock up so you aren’t caught out... Again....

Away With The Fairies

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it doesn't spike a lot in Ireland, there must be immunity and way bigger spread than currently thought.

There's still very little known about immunity and how long antibodies last. So people may get this again.

ixoy

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s the same thing here. No foresight in Jan/February, panic and then mostly focused on full steam ahead.

Ah come on - pretty much every single country on the planet had this same "no foresight" in January/February.

Hector Savage

caveat emptor wrote: »

YeahnI think it's easy to be swept up in arguments of peoples rights etc. Why don't we have the right to go to US but people there can come here? Not mentioning the fact that it's an absolute ****e show there.


What's the equivalent of Johnny Foreigner in Spain? Might want to look it up.

Get help you mentally ill lunatic

GerryFog

I've gotten 2 responses from my local TDs

its crazy seeing Americans on the streets of Dublin. I saw quite a few groups yesterday

Drumpot

ixoy wrote: »

Ah come on - pretty much every single country on the planet had this same "no foresight" in January/February.

Why does that matter? You actually agree with my sentiments that we had no foresight in this matter.

You learn by looking at what was done wrong and changing/adapting, not excusing yourself for being as negligent as many others.

mandrake04

Goldengirl wrote: »

Some feel that the HEPA filtration on planes is good enough to filter everything .
I don't think so . Only larger particles and droplets , not viruses.
And only some planes have the state of the art filtration system .
Don't know for sure but would imagine your average bucket flight on a cheap airline would not have the best system .
Might be worth checking before you fly .

The HEPA filters cleans the air, but the reality is that clean air is only really clean when it comes out of the nozzle once it hits some infected cunt right into his sweaty face then his particles are distributed around the immediate cabin.....is it still classed as clean?

MickeyLeari

Zonda999 wrote: »

I think political will would go a long way here, would people really be pushing to send any new law in this area to the Supreme Court in order to challenge it? I very much doubt it.

Its futile at this point though I think, if any action hasn;t been done by now then I doubt it will be.

It is in contravention of EU law.

MickeyLeari

snotboogie wrote: »

Fixed for you

The first will not happen, the second and third are illegal from any EU countries.

cnocbui

ixoy wrote: »

Ah come on - pretty much every single country on the planet had this same "no foresight" in January/February.

Except for China, who had Chinese companies, which are basically arms of the government, buy up huge quantities of PPE gear from western countries like Australia, and ship it all back to China, leaving severe shortfalls in those countries.

You could be forgiven for thinking they knew more about the virus, earlier, than they were letting on, and were working to a plan.

At the same time, they were trying hard to prevent other countries from banning flights and travelers from China.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Except for China, who had Chinese companies, which are basically arms of the government, buy up huge quantities of PPE gear from western countries like Australia, and ship it all back to China, leaving severe shortfalls in those countries.

You could be forgiven for thinking they knew more about the virus, earlier, than they were letting on, and were working to a plan.

Fair play to them if they did. It's mid-July and the rest of the world still doesn't have a clue.

MickeyLeari

cnocbui wrote: »

Except for China, who had Chinese companies, which are basically arms of the government, buy up huge quantities of PPE gear from western countries like Australia, and ship it all back to China, leaving severe shortfalls in those countries.

You could be forgiven for thinking they knew more about the virus, earlier, than they were letting on, and were working to a plan.

If China had foresight they would have shut down those disgusting markets.

If Italy had foresight it would have shut down this textile sweat shops.

Daz_

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I emailed all my TDs. Sinn Fein are the only ones who responded. No response from the Taoiseach, Minister for Public Expenditure and Minister for Foreign Affairs who are supposed to be “my representatives”.

[img][/img]https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=519724&d=1594637667

Easy for opposition / Sinn Finn to give out about it .

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/face-coverings-confusion-over-enforcement-of-new-public-transport-rules-1.4303166?mode=amp

So after all the media hype at the end of last week, the face coverings on public transport aren't actually being enforced.


I suppose this is the impact of rushing through a piece of legislation based on a mood at the time without fully appreciating what it would actually mean and how it would be implemented.

s1ippy

Daz_ wrote: »

Easy for opposition / Sinn Finn to give out about it .

That's the entire point of the opposition?

ACitizenErased

Daz_ wrote: »

Easy for opposition / Sinn Finn to give out about it .

At least they’re saying something instead of f*ck all like the others.

cnocbui

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

There's still very little known about immunity and how long antibodies last. So people may get this again.

Well there is some research on the subject and it suggests antibodies don't last long and suggests a vaccine wont be very effective.

Immunity to Covid-19 could be lost in months, UK study suggests

Exclusive: King’s College London team found steep drops in patients’ antibody levels three months after infection



In the first longitudinal study of its kind, scientists analysed the immune response of more than 90 patients and healthcare workers at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS foundation trust and found levels of antibodies that can destroy the virus peaked about three weeks after the onset of symptoms then swiftly declined.

Blood tests revealed that while 60% of people marshalled a “potent” antibody response at the height of their battle with the virus, only 17% retained the same potency three months later. Antibody levels fell as much as 23-fold over the period. In some cases, they became undetectable.

“People are producing a reasonable antibody response to the virus, but it’s waning over a short period of time and depending on how high your peak is, that determines how long the antibodies are staying around,” said Dr Katie Doores, lead author on the study at King’s College London.

The study has implications for the development of a vaccine, and for the pursuit of “herd immunity” in the community over time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

I doubt the panicers here will ever accept that this pandemic will continue and trying to hide in a sealed submarine is pointless.

Daz_

s1ippy wrote: »

That's the entire point of the opposition?

His point was that they were the only one to respond . Sinn F will be outraged at everything for the next few years

ACitizenErased

Fella on reddit saying that Dublin Bus had mask compliance checks this morning.
Comments saying Luas security are also enforcing it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/hqa7qa/dublin_bus_actually_enforcing_the_wearing_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

ACitizenErased

Daz_ wrote: »

His point was that they were the only one to respond . Sinn F will be outraged at everything for the next few years

What has this got to do with their party? It’s my public representative who I voted for voicing his outrage at the inaction of the government. That’s literally his job?

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair play to them if they did. It's mid-July and the rest of the world still doesn't have a clue.

I find your attitude obnoxious in the extreme.

Fair play to them? Even if they engineered and created it on purpose?

The most logical explanation is that it comes from a laboratory
The well-known Norwegian virologist Birger Sørensen and his colleagues have examined the corona virus. They believe it has certain properties which would not evolve naturally. These conclusions are politically controversial, but in this interview he shares the findings behind the headlines.

https://www.minervanett.no/corona/the-most-logical-explanation-is-that-it-comes-from-a-laboratory/361860

caveat emptor

Obvious so so obvious....yawn.

Tourism not the best idea during pandemic. No matter how much revenue airbnb doesn't generate.

Get the excuses in now lads or just deal with the reality. Here's a list of excuses I've made earlier for your convenience.

• How could we have known?
• It's just a local outbreak
• it's just a flu bro

As many as 140,000 residents in Lleida, in Segrià, have been ordered to stay in their homes and only leave for food or essential work. Officials have banned eat-in restaurants, weddings and meetings of more than 10 people as part of the new lockdown measures. The town is located 100miles west from Barcelona.

SPANISH officials have re-introduced strict lockdown measures in a town near Barcelona following a huge spike in coronavirus cases.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1308592/Spain-coronavirus-latest-news-lockdown-second-wave-COVID-19-Barcelona-Lleida-Segri

cnocbui

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

The Australians are thick as fcuk if what they say is true. Security getting the ride from diseased fcukers.

Cheltenham; returning skiers. Pot - kettle.

Eod100

MickeyLeari wrote: »

It is in contravention of EU law.

What is? And how?

timmy_mallet

s1ippy wrote: »

That's the entire point of the opposition?

The point was an expectation on providing a nuanced view, planning etc for a complex area would take longer than saying 'oh god, yeah, awful, the govt. have no clue, we're terrrrrified.'

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

I find your attitude obnoxious in the extreme.

Fair play to them? Even if they engineered and created it on purpose?

https://www.minervanett.no/corona/the-most-logical-explanation-is-that-it-comes-from-a-laboratory/361860

My point was that if the rest of world still doesn't have a handle on it, it's unlikely they did. And presenting wild conspiracy theories as fact doesn't help any point you're trying to make.

As for the topic at hand, some countries outside China were acting in January. The ones with prior experience of these epidemics. The West knew but thought it was better than everyone else.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Fella on reddit saying that Dublin Bus had mask compliance checks this morning.
Comments saying Luas security are also enforcing it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/hqa7qa/dublin_bus_actually_enforcing_the_wearing_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Depends on the driver, some had been doing this for the last 2 weeks, NTA saying 80% compliance but from what I've seen today not a hope in hell its 80%.

About 40-50% on the buses I've been on today, no difference to last week.

Both NBRU and Gardaí basically saying its not their job.

Quick look on the DB twitter tells all anyone needs to know.

DB inspectors getting on some buses this morning with clipboards but appearently its purely to monitor loads to increase services where needed.

For what it's worth fair play to the luas lads but they've no power of enforcement either. They're private security and can't detain or imped anyone. They'd have to stop a tram and wait for Gardai. More hassle than its worth on parts of the red line in particular

This whole thing is a bit of a mess with nobody taking any responsibility for actual application of legislation. For example it only got published to Gardaí at 7:30 last night and the unions are involved there now too.

LiquidZeb

cnocbui wrote: »

Well there is some research on the subject and it suggests antibodies don't last long and suggests a vaccine wont be very effective.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

I doubt the panicers here will ever accept that this pandemic will continue and trying to hide in a sealed submarine is pointless.

I had read that t cells are more important to preventing reinfection than antibodies. Antibodies are supposed to fade once the jobs done. Can anyone verify this?

cnocbui

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I had read that t cells are more important to preventing reinfection than antibodies. Antibodies are supposed to fade once the jobs done. Can anyone verify this?

Given the plethora of accounts of people appearing to have become re-infected, i wouldn't place too much faith in the T-cell claims, which I think may prove to be a bit of a fad.

it had been assumed that the reinfections weren't really that but that they were just the result of faulty testing, but that assumption looks to me to be possible wrong, and that people were being re-infected, which means T-cells may not be as efficacious as some claim.

fritzelly

Where are all these people getting reinfected?

ACitizenErased

fritzelly wrote: »

Where are all theses people getting reinfected?

I have seen zero reports of this tbh