Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

bb1234567

JJayoo wrote: »

"BRUSSELS — Up to half of coronavirus-related deaths in Europe are occurring in long-term-care facilities such as nursing homes, the World Health Organization said"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/nursing-homes-coronavirus-deaths-europe/2020/04/23/d635619c-8561-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

"More Than 40% of U.S. Coronavirus Deaths Are Linked to Nursing Homes"

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-nursing-homes.html

Might be best that you look stuff up before posting.

And some of the countries you listed ..Iran.. really so comparable to the west except for nursing home culture?

I have spent a few months in Thailand and it is a beautiful place...but it's also absolutely filthy, eat at any food stall in Bangkok and you will see rats everywhere, during rainy season the drains fill up and the streets are full of rain/sewer water, there is zero health and safety of any shape or form and yet they have shut deaths down hard. Initially I thought it would be hammered by the virus but the fact that wearing masks is a norm, so from day one people had them on and that the older vunerable people are not in big towns cities but instead back at home with contact to a few family members has made the difference.

In my opinion of course..but since this is the internet my opinion is all that counts

Sorry what, where did I say that there wasn't a large number of nursing home deaths in Europe? Never claimed otherwise . You said that the west had large numbers of deaths because of nursing homes infections , this only partly true as I gave several examples of countries with relatively small elderly populations that still have large covid death tolls, meaning there would be large numbers of deaths whether we protected nursing home residents or not. There would have just been less deaths, not as few as Thailand has. If the main reason Thailand had few deaths is because it doesn't have a large elderly population, then Iran India Brazil Ecuador Peru Mexico etc etc would also not have large death tolls for the exact same reason.

Eod100

joeguevara wrote: »

With regards to the Chilean case, it clearly states that the State was wrong for enforcing quarantine, it was unlawful detention and will be forced to be a huge amount in compensation. The Stated didn't even bother to fight it. What did you take from this case?

It wasn't quarantine. I raised it because it shows the powers they have. Clearly used wrongly in this context but shows via tweet I linked to that ''under the Immigration Act 2004 they can refuse someone entry if their entry to the state would be contrary to public policy.''

If that applied to public health guidance of the state then they could use it to ensure compliance with public health guidelines.

timmy_mallet

Deleted User wrote: »

How many are tourists, how many are here for work, how many are returning Irish, how many are getting connecting flights?

I suppose the first question you should ask is, 'how many have or have had COVID-19', because the rest doesn't matter.

joeguevara

Eod100 wrote: »

It wasn't quarantine. I raised it because it shows the powers they have. Clearly used wrongly in this context but shows via tweet I linked to that ''under the Immigration Act 2004 they can refuse someone entry if their entry to the state would be contrary to public policy.''

If that applied to public health guidance of the state then they could use it to ensure compliance with public health guidelines.

refusing entry is different to putting them into a cell though. But I understand what you are saying.

ShineOn7

Eod100

joeguevara wrote: »

refusing entry is different to putting them into a cell though.

I never suggested putting anyone in a cell. I clearly said that there was no justification for State's treatment of the Chilean woman.

It's all in my original post; ''I think state could exercise powers already have if they wanted. Should be a basic check, if someone's not here on essential travel and is here for 14 day or less from high risk country should be turned away. That deterrent along would decrease lot of non-essential travel.''

Using that case as a recent example to demonstrate that ''it's clear state can use all it's powers when it wants to''

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

How many are tourists, how many are here for work, how many are returning Irish, how many are getting connecting flights?

As Glynn commented yesterday having a foreign accent doesn't mean they have no reason to be here.

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

I never suggested putting anyone in a cell. I clearly said that there was no justification for State's treatment of the Chilean woman.

It's all in my original post; ''I think state could exercise powers already have if they wanted. Should be a basic check, if someone's not here on essential travel and is here for 14 day or less from high risk country should be turned away. That deterrent along would decrease lot of non-essential travel.''

Using that case as a recent example to demonstrate that ''it's clear state can use all it's powers when it wants to''

That wasn't the State, that was some twat on a complete power trip.

fritzelly

is_that_so wrote: »

That wasn't the State, that was some twat on a complete power trip.

Was it maybe Bruce

mloc123

is_that_so wrote: »

As Glynn commented yesterday having a foreign accent doesn't mean they have no reason to be here.

My work office has around 10% "Irish" people... The other 90% are... American, French, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Polish etc.. etc...

If you passed some of those in the street, would you assume they are tourists here?

Rob A. Bank

Deleted User wrote: »

How many are tourists, how many are here for work, how many are returning Irish, how many are getting connecting flights?

It does not matter, they all can potentially spread the virus here.

There are now many well documented instances of travelers from the states flouting the self isolation rules, and nothing is being done.

It's a carbon copy of the Italian tourists around St Patrick's Day fiasco. Have we learned nothing ?

Are the Government serious about mitigating the spread of the virus or not ?

ShineOn7

fritzelly wrote: »

Is there a list anywhere of recommended masks, fit, breathability and supplier etc anywhere?
Trying to find one of those more rigid ones

Your best bet is to ask here

Eod100

Deleted User wrote: »

How many are tourists, how many are here for work, how many are returning Irish, how many are getting connecting flights?

The only one there self isolation doesn't apply to is connecting flights assuming they don't leave airport. I think if numbers are as low as made out which they could be then better enforcement of self isolation or mandatory quarantine would be easier to implement not harder.

is_that_so

mloc123 wrote: »

My work office has around 10% "Irish" people... The other 90% are... American, French, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Polish etc.. etc...

If you passed some of those in the street, would you assume they are tourists here?

Me, no. I think you misinterpreted my post.

US2

fritzelly wrote: »

Was it maybe Bruce

Ah Bruce buddy.

is_that_so

fritzelly wrote: »

Was it maybe Bruce

Bruce?

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

That wasn't the State, that was some twat on a complete power trip.

I don't disagree that they were in the wrong in that case but just to better explain, if the state gave guidance to immigration officers to make the specific checks provided they are lawful then it could be an extra tool state has to try to prevent non-essential travel and people not self isolating.

What Username Guidelines

Lombardia reported 30 cases today and 3 deaths. Given they’re usually ~40-50% of cases in Italy, it looks like they’re gonna have a relatively low day. 0.53% positivity rate from their testing.

Edit: 114 cases total today, apparently lowest since feb 26th. Worldometers does have a day with 113 recently but may have been a reporting issue. Either way, great to see given they’re quite open for some time.

timmy_mallet

mloc123 wrote: »

My work office has around 10% "Irish" people... The other 90% are... American, French, Italian, Indian, Chinese, Polish etc.. etc...

If you passed some of those in the street, would you assume they are tourists here?

W/o tourists, lots of D1 and D2 would be like that. And the govt. having to ask people not to assume that is an indication of their concern for anti-immigrant and far right sentiment being just under the surface here.

US2

is_that_so wrote: »

Bruce?

Yeah buddy. Do you want to see my badge amigo

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

I don't disagree that they were in the wrong in that case but just to better explain, if the state gave guidance to immigration officers to make the specific checks provided they are lawful then it could be an extra tool state has to try to prevent non-essential travel and people not self isolating.

Having been exposed, briefly, to the lads and lassies of immigration, in a similar encounter with a foreign student, can't say I'd trust them to do much right. They really do suit themselves.

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

As Glynn commented yesterday having a foreign accent doesn't mean they have no reason to be here.

Of course not and nobody should have that mindset. I think he had answered that to a question from media asking what if staff in restaurant get chatting to say Americans as an example and they say they arrived into Ireland 5 days ago, what should happen.

Unfortunately the scenarios like journalist ask could crop up when people can travel from high risk areas for non essential travel and not self-isolate. I know a lot of businesses now are taking it upon themselves to asking anyone booking if they've recently arrived into country whether Irish or not, because of course an Irish person is just as likely to have returned from abroad recently as an American could be living here for years.

is_that_so

US2 wrote: »

Yeah buddy. Do you want to see my badge amigo

None the wiser!

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

Having been exposed, briefly, to the lads and lassies of immigration, in a similar encounter with a foreign student, can't say I'd trust them to do much right. They really do suit themselves.

Fair enough. It wouldn't be my preferred method by any means, would hate to see US style immigration authorities here say but if staff and rules that already existed could ask people politely and friendly (not interrogation style) in lawful manner these things it could be helpful. Whether that's realistic is another question I guess

gipi

is_that_so wrote: »

None the wiser!

Bruce was a Dublin Airport customs officer who featured in the reality show Stop, Search, Seize. His manner towards the public was...let's say quirky!

timmy_mallet

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

It does not matter, they all can potentially spread the virus here.

There are now many well documented instances of travelers from the states flouting the self isolation rules, and nothing is being done.

It's a carbon copy of the Italian tourists around St Patrick's Day fiasco. Have we learned nothing ?

Are the Government serious about mitigating the spread of the virus or not ?

Anyone can 'potentially spread the virus' - where they come from is irrelevant. As a small island nation, we cannot survive without travel. A 2 week quarantine is utterly impractical. Perhaps some of the 99.7% negative testing capacity should be shifted towards our ports instead. If the same positive/negative rate exists there, we can then also forget about travel being a problem.

podgeandrodge

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Covney said yesterday that 250 people from the states are coming in every day.

1,000 every four days from the country with the most reported infected cases in the world is hardly "(not very many)" !

While I also think that there should be restrictions on US tourism (excluding legitimate travel reasons etc.), I guess that we will see very quickly if these numbers translate into cases - they have been coming in for a while now no? IN which case if they represent a problem the cases should mount up. As someone said, it depends on whether the types arriving have the profile of people with cases (if such profiles exist!).

Guess we will know soon enough, and contact tracing app might assist in showing whether they were the source?

Eod100

Only other shop I'd heard doing this was Vibes and Scribes in Cork. Know in UK they're bringing it in from 24th for all shops. Wonder will it happen here? Nearly better off linking it wearing it on public transport so it's less of an ask.

https://twitter.com/conor_pope/status/1283056458091896833

timmy_mallet

podgeandrodge wrote: »

While I also think that there should be restrictions on US tourism (excluding legitimate travel reasons etc.), I guess that we will see very quickly if these numbers translate into cases - they have been coming in for a while now no? IN which case if they represent a problem the cases should mount up. As someone said, it depends on whether the types arriving have the profile of people with cases (if such profiles exist!).

Guess we will know soon enough, and contact tracing app might assist in showing whether they were the source?

Right. It doesn't matter where someone comes from. It depends on if they are bloody currently positive and a risk.

The UKers are booking European holidays. The Germans, Dutch etc, doing the same. And here we are worried about a few tourists coming here! Mad. Test at the ports.

Rob A. Bank

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Anyone can 'potentially spread the virus' - where they come from is irrelevant. As a small island nation, we cannot survive without travel. A 2 week quarantine is utterly impractical. Perhaps some of the 99.7% negative testing capacity should be shifted towards our ports instead. If the same positive/negative rate exists there, we can then also forget about travel being a problem.

Are you serious ?

Is this the last 'cry in the wilderness' from the 'herd immunity' flu-bros ?

timmy_mallet

Eod100 wrote: »

Only other shop I'd heard doing this was Vibes and Scribes in Cork. Know in UK they're bringing it in from 24th for all shops. Wonder will it happen here? Nearly better off linking it wearing it on public transport so it's less of an ask.

https://twitter.com/conor_pope/status/1283056458091896833

Absurd. Have we forgot that we were all touching the easy singles and breathing on each other in Aldi for 4 months with NO community spread?!

Have we forgotten "2m for 15 minutes".

There was a bloke on our football group suggesting we should all wear masks while playing 5-a-side. Just to give that extra bit of safety. Count me out.

timmy_mallet

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Are you serious ?

Is this the last 'cry in the wilderness' from the 'herd immunity' flu-bros ?

Nice straw-man, there horse.

Are you arguing it does matter where someone comes from rather than if they are currently positive for Covid-19?

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

Only other shop I'd heard doing this was Vibes and Scribes in Cork. Know in UK they're bringing it in from 24th for all shops. Wonder will it happen here? Nearly better off linking it wearing it on public transport so it's less of an ask.

https://twitter.com/conor_pope/status/1283056458091896833

Mask usage in shops is low here, under 30% according to the latest market research. In reality it's probably a lot lower as posters have reported. I rarely see 10% or more in masks. The UK still has a lot of new daily cases and are in a rush to get them down, while opening everything up.
Even if they did, the associated fine is draconian, for attempting to buy fundamental items.

All you need for a rapid government U-turn would be a few headlines!

"Granny of 12, prevented from buying milk" or "Supermarket bars widow from buying food for sick child"!

Snickers Man

Here are a few graphs which show how various selected large countries, or associations of countries are performing since March.

Snapshot data is taken every four days (usually) from the worldometers website. Last snapshot taken yesterday (July 13th). As can be seen the US is still charging ahead in terms of both identified cases and deaths. Brazil, after a slow start, is becoming dangerously prolific.
The EU 27 curve is already flattening.

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

Mask usage in shops is low here, under 30% according to the latest market research. In reality it's probably a lot lower as posters have reported. I rarely see 10% or more in masks. The UK still has a lot of new daily cases and are in a rush to get them down, while opening everything up.
Even if they did, the associated fine is draconian, for attempting to buy fundamental items.

All you need for a rapid government U-turn would be a few headlines!

"Granny of 12, prevented from buying milk" or "Supermarket bars widow from buying food for sick child"!

The phones would be hopping for Joe Duffy in fairness if that happened..

mloc123

is_that_so wrote: »

Me, no. I think you misinterpreted my post.

Sorry, question not directed at you.. just following on from what you posted

JP Liz V1

I think the government's lazy approach to stopping flights and non quarantine enforcement from Covid hot spots is a huge disgrace and total disrespect to everyone here, from front line hero workers to grieving families and friends, cocooning elderly and kids etc., everyone :mad: well done to businesses losing out on trade but taking a sensible approach stopping unquarantined without proof, why can tests and results not be done at airports, borders and ports

timmy_mallet

is_that_so wrote: »

Mask usage in shops is low here, under 30% according to the latest market research. In reality it's probably a lot lower as posters have reported. I rarely see 10% or more in masks. The UK still has a lot of new daily cases and are in a rush to get them down, while opening everything up.
Even if they did, the associated fine is draconian, for attempting to buy fundamental items.

All you need for a rapid government U-turn would be a few headlines!

"Granny of 12, prevented from buying milk" or "Supermarket bars widow from buying food for sick child"!

Would like to see the evidence for masks preventing spread of a respiratory illness in a retail setting.

Given the numbers we've seen from Tesco (which didn't detail if they caught the infection in the store) it could be argued that masks are utterly futile and pointless in those environments (But if it solves 1 case!).

caveat emptor

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Absurd. Have we forgot that we were all touching the easy singles and breathing on each other in Aldi for 4 months with NO community spread?!

Have we forgotten "2m for 15 minutes".

There was a bloke on our football group suggesting we should all wear masks while playing 5-a-side. Just to give that extra bit of safety. Count me out.

Yeah right batman.....no community transmission. You might want to check yourself before you wreck your credibility. 1 in 3 people have no fvcking idea how they got it.

is_that_so

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Would like to see the evidence for masks preventing spread of a respiratory illness in a retail setting.

Given the numbers we've seen from Tesco (which didn't detail if they caught the infection in the store) it could be argued that masks are utterly futile and pointless in those environments (But if it solves 1 case!).

There was an article some time back in The Times which reported similar numbers from Lidl and others. It's probably fair to say it's low or lower risk with the way supermarkets have managed numbers in and out.

ACitizenErased

No deaths again today.

32 additional cases.

DOCARCH

Went back a couple of pages but did not see mention.

What's the story with the UK today?

1,240 new cases and 138 additional deaths.

That does not sound good!

fritzelly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

No deaths again today.

32 additional cases.

Thread is about to explode

Santy2015

ACitizenErased wrote: »

No deaths again today.

32 additional cases.

32....

ACitizenErased

32 additional cases despite only 15 positive tests in the last 24 hours. I'm not sure what they're up to with their reporting.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

No deaths again today.

32 additional cases.

After 11 yesterday and additional 40 odd cases added over the wekeend that never added up to the numbers announced im going to go out on the limb here and suggest something just isn't right with reporting. Case data gave 40 odd extra on Saturday I think but we never announced that many.

But this gives them the ammo to push out phase 4 even though it shouldn't. The headlines will be 32 cases but the reporting is off somewhere.

Gael23

No deaths but 32 cases

Larbre34

Zero deaths, 36 new cases here

This is bullsh1t now. Zero tolerance of tourism f*ckwittery.

And I'm talking just as much about our own younger people renting houses and going on the piss with 30 of their closest friends.

This new Government is flapping, get your sh1t together immediately Míchéal and Donnelly....

timmy_mallet

fritzelly wrote: »

Thread is about to explode

(Monday + Tuesday) / 2 ... is the way to take this stuff.

Rob A. Bank

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Nice straw-man, there horse.

Are you arguing it does matter where someone comes from rather than if they are currently positive for Covid-19?

Yes I am, as are most sensible governments who are producing safer 'green lists' and also 'red lists' of countries where they do not want people coming from.

The positivity of a random covid test depends entirely on when it is taken during the infected period. The sensitivity of testing varies with timing of testing relative to exposure. Estimated sensitivity is 33% 4 days after exposure, 62% on the day of symptom onset, and 80% 3 days after symptom onset.

Using the reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction–based SARS-CoV-2 RNA test is not sensitive enough to exclude an infection, and impossible to do on everyone entering the country.

Quarantine for people from hot-spots is the only way to go.