Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

cnocbui

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Italians disagree:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-from-italy-effects-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-first-thought-12027348

The long-term effects of COVID-19, even on people who suffered a mild infection, could be far worse than was originally anticipated, according to researchers and doctors in northern Italy.

Psychosis, insomnia, kidney disease, spinal infections, strokes, chronic tiredness and mobility issues are being identified in former coronavirus patients in Lombardy, the worst-affected region in the country.

So little is known of the virus that any long-term planning is guess work.

Doctors believe that even the youngest and mildest infected are at risk of their lives being changed forever, and it could take years to become apparent. Whole workforces could become less productive as a consequence.

The advice from Italy is simple: Don't get infected.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/01/coronavirus-autopsies-findings/

These people who might suffer severe long term consequences - exactly what percentage of the population of Italy would they represent? A bit of context would be nice.

ixoy

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Italians disagree:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-from-italy-effects-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-first-thought-12027348

There's very little evidence though there that it will cause issues in any significant numbers to most people. All it says is, "we're not sure" which is different to "we disagree".

gipi

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why refuse a free potentially life saving test, are they even self isolating

https://twitter.com/jerosullivanRK/status/1282959677660307456?s=19

Have a look at one of the replies to this tweet - claims young people don't trust the system, won't get tested and won't download the tracker app!

https://twitter.com/arclight2011/status/1283089901446201347?s=19

ZX7R

El Weirdo wrote: »

Fair enough. I still don't see how it would require a referendum to change it though.

The wording iof it it's protected by law and can't be over turned by any government.
So the only way for it to be changed is if the people call for it hence you would require a referendum.
That in turn would cause a domino effect
And a **** storm that would case more damage than the pandemic

bodhrandude

gipi wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jerosullivanRK/status/1282959677660307456?s=19

Have a look at one of the replies to this tweet - claims young people don't trust the system, won't get tested and won't download the tracker app!

https://twitter.com/arclight2011/status/1283089901446201347?s=19

The only reply I seen was that Mary Lou didn't download the tracker app.

XsApollo

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/positive-news-is-coming-on-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-writes-robert-peston


Hopefully it’s true.
Winter is going to be a right clusterf*ck if we don’t have something in the pipeline.

Jim_Hodge

ZX7R wrote: »

The wording iof it it's protected by law and can't be over turned by any government.
So the only way for it to be changed is if the people call for it hence you would require a referendum.
That in turn would cause a domino effect
And a **** storm that would case more damage than the pandemic

A referendum is not required if the law isn't enshrined in the constitution. Where is the CTA covered by the constitution?

Assetbacked

XsApollo wrote: »

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/positive-news-is-coming-on-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-writes-robert-peston


Hopefully it’s true.
Winter is going to be a right clusterf*ck if we don’t have something in the pipeline.

Wow, the article even claims it could go into mass production as early as September; that would put a definite lifespan on the crisis which wouldn't be very long. Very promising if true!

gabeeg

ixoy wrote: »

There's very little evidence though there that it will cause issues in any significant numbers to most people. All it says is, "we're not sure" which is different to "we disagree".

There's very little evidence in either direction.

spookwoman

Ref Long term effects of the virus, the number must be high enough for them to notice that it is happening. Even a small % means probably more people are going to need more medical care as they get older which is going to put more of a strain on a system that is near breaking point. It was mentioned a few months ago that more people are probably going to need lung transplants as well and we don't need to look far to read about it. People need to cop on, just because there are no definitive numbers on long term effects doesn't mean it's not happening.

Cork consultant: Patients already presenting in need of lung transplants after surviving Covid
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

US2

XsApollo wrote: »

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/positive-news-is-coming-on-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-writes-robert-peston


Hopefully it’s true.
Winter is going to be a right clusterf*ck if we don’t have something in the pipeline.

Same as the cluster**** after Easter, after May an June bank holidays. The Penney's opening cluster**** ect ??

XsApollo

US2 wrote: »

Same as the cluster**** after Easter, after May an June bank holidays. The Penney's opening cluster**** ect ??

Winter is different ballgame.
There might won’t be any virus but there will be head colds galore.
So if someone has a head cold in your work place does everybody isolate?
Do they shut the company down awaiting test results?
Schools? Kids with a cold? Shutting down classrooms every time a child has a cold.
Coughs , the usual winter bugs can all be attributed to showing similar symptoms as this.

How is that going to managed?

Hector Savage

caveat emptor wrote: »

I know we've got some very qualified people on here but Bill Gates knows something about this. No whether you believe him to be a philanthropist who has the best interests in the world at heart or he is a lizard and part of some 5g conspiracy and planned it you should probably listen to him.

Spoiler alert:it's gonna get worse....His face says it all really.

I can hear people ripping the prick offa themselves ... probably have the whole choking whilst having a **** setup going on ...

Mod: Threadbanned.

ACitizenErased

Northern Ireland update:

Zero deaths again today.
9 additional cases.

US2

XsApollo wrote: »

Winter is different ballgame.
There might won’t be any virus but there will be head colds galore.
So if someone has a head cold in your work place does everybody isolate?
Do they shut the company down awaiting test results?
Schools? Kids with a cold? Shutting down classrooms every time a child has a cold.
Coughs , the usual winter bugs can all be attributed to showing similar symptoms as this.

How is that going to managed?

Yeah that'll be a tough one alright.

gabeeg

Hector Savage wrote: »

I can hear people ripping the prick offa themselves ... probably have the whole choking whilst having a **** setup going on ...

You should probably get that seen to.

Non solum non ambulabit

XsApollo wrote: »

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/positive-news-is-coming-on-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-writes-robert-peston


Hopefully it’s true.
Winter is going to be a right clusterf*ck if we don’t have something in the pipeline.

Very positive, I am hoping this vaccine is the winning one as we will get access to it. Any vaccine developed in the USA is very likely to be restricted to the the US, at least initially.

is_that_so

XsApollo wrote: »

Winter is different ballgame.
There might won’t be any virus but there will be head colds galore.
So if someone has a head cold in your work place does everybody isolate?
Do they shut the company down awaiting test results?
Schools? Kids with a cold? Shutting down classrooms every time a child has a cold.
Coughs , the usual winter bugs can all be attributed to showing similar symptoms as this.

How is that going to managed?

Testing is now about 2 days, with capacity for 12K tests, so really not an issue. Some will try to soldier on in work but many will barricade themselves in.

ZX7R

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

A referendum is not required if the law isn't enshrined in the constitution. Where is the CTA covered by the constitution?

Two types of referendum in Ireland.
Construction referendum
And
Ordinary referendum
It would fall under the second

spookwoman

Thepress wrote: »

To be fair it really does seem like scaremongering

Read about the flu, it also in rare cases causes many long term health problems.

It seems like clickbait journalism and doctors being extra cautious.

Plenty of articles out there where people have had to have lung transplants because of covid damage. It's not scare mongering it's happening.

cnocbui

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why refuse a free potentially life saving test, are they even self isolating

Because the test is very unpleasant?

“It’s not comfortable, I’ll just be honest,” says Pinto, a University of Chicago Medicine otolaryngologist who’s had similar tests done on himself. “There’s a little discomfort. It’s not long-lasting. It’ll sting for a minute.”

It isn’t pain like you feel from a shot. Instead, think about how it felt if you’ve gotten chlorinated water up your nose in a swimming pool.

The complex nerve endings in your nose told your brain: That’s not right, there’s something bad in there. And that burning sensation makes you want to blow the water right back out.

Well, the swab test for COVID-19 is more intense than that.

“It’s a deep burning, and it often elicits tears and sometimes coughing,” says Molly K. Erickson, a nurse practitioner at Rush University Medical Center who helped set up the Chicago hospital’s testing sites. “That discomfort really comes with getting an adequate sample.”

Once the swab is inserted, it needs to be swirled around for about 15 seconds. Depending on the test, the same thing might also be done through your other nostril.

The discomfort you feel typically goes away quickly, and there’s usually no bleeding.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/10/21216845/coronavirus-covid19-abbott-rapid-swab-test-nose-nasal-how-it-feels-jayant-pinto-molly-erickson

'Usually no bleeding' - get off with that.

is_that_so

Thepress wrote: »

Just reading the new open letter from our experts Gerry Kileen and Tomas Ryan.

I see their brigade has added a new member.

Dr Mathieu o tomhaill.

Seems very full of himself, condescending and clueless on twitter.

Fits in well with Gerry and Tomas so.

He's the covigilante mask guy! Takes selfies of himself with a mask, where nobody else is wearing one! What's with these open letters anyway? They're a virus in themselves!

political analyst

The fact that a deceased person tested positive for Covid is not proof that the person's death was caused by Covid. Niall Boylan has a point.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1283093428046356480

ixoy

spookwoman wrote: »

Plenty of articles out there where people have had to have lung transplants because of covid damage. It's not scare mongering it's happening.

Yes but how often is it happening? Were they cases where they had suffered a mild response or a severe response? Any underlying conditions? And so on. A picture will start to emerge but there's little to be gained from fretting too much about this and instead continue to take the precautions we're being asked to take.

owlbethere

spookwoman wrote: »

Ref Long term effects of the virus, the number must be high enough for them to notice that it is happening. Even a small % means probably more people are going to need more medical care as they get older which is going to put more of a strain on a system that is near breaking point. It was mentioned a few months ago that more people are probably going to need lung transplants as well and we don't need to look far to read about it. People need to cop on, just because there are no definitive numbers on long term effects doesn't mean it's not happening.

Cork consultant: Patients already presenting in need of lung transplants after surviving Covid
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-consultant-Patients-already-presenting-in-need-of-lung-transplants-after-surviving-Covid-2a3a2602-2c84-408f-a8ad-63a30ccc4b63-ds

This is the thing that scares me about the virus. It's not death but it's the potential for becoming incapacitated from the virus. Not only for my own health but for everyone around me.

cnocbui

spookwoman wrote: »

Plenty of articles out there where people have had to have lung transplants because of covid damage. It's not scare mongering it's happening.

Plenty of articles about the 2 instances. 13.5 million infections leading to two lung transplants - panic stations - close the hatch, dive, dive, dive.

hmmm

political analyst wrote: »

The fact that a deceased person tested positive for Covid is not proof that the person's death was caused by Covid. Niall Boylan has a point.

We didn't lock down because of 1700 deaths. We locked down because of the potential for tens of thousands of more deaths (and other forms of suffering) if the virus had been allowed spread unrestricted.

is_that_so

ixoy wrote: »

Yes but how often is it happening? Were they cases where they had suffered a mild response or a severe response? Any underlying conditions? And so on. A picture will start to emerge but there's little to be gained from fretting too much about this and instead continue to take the precautions we're being asked to take.

There is rarely any piece that makes an effort to draw such things together. They tend to just fire out details of the latest "study" of 18 people!

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

We didn't lock down because of 1700 deaths. We locked down because of the potential for tens of thousands of more deaths (and other forms of suffering) if the virus had been allowed spread unrestricted.

Well, the potentially overwhelmed health system first, followed by, potentially, loads of deaths.

caveat emptor

Thepress wrote: »

To be fair it really does seem like scaremongering

Read about the flu, it also in rare cases causes many long term health problems.

It seems like clickbait journalism and doctors being extra cautious.

Welcome. I find it scary that people are so stupid. I find it irritating that we then have to pay for their hospital treatment with our tax yo-yos because their 5g bull**** was wrong and there is actually a virus that fvcks people up.

cnocbui

political analyst wrote: »

The fact that a deceased person tested positive for Covid is not proof that the person's death was caused by Covid. Niall Boylan has a point.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1283093428046356480

The virus seems to do a lot more enabling of other medical problems to kill people than directly killing them itself. It seems more an evil assistant than the main villain.

hmmm

cnocbui wrote: »

Plenty of articles about the 2 instances. 13.5 million infections leading to two lung transplants - panic stations - close the hatch, dive, dive, dive.

Until you back your views up with actual proper statistics, which the above isn't, you are not proving that this virus is as trivial as you claim it to be. Everything I've read suggests about 0.65-0.85% deaths, rising very rapidly after about age 60, with lots more people who will have heart, lung, kidney and brain damage which may require life-long treatment.

For people who claim to be concentrating on economic damage, you seem very unconcerned about the cost of having large numbers of patients in our health system with long-term complications arising out of Covid.

hmmm

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/08/scientists-warn-of-potential-wave-of-brain-damage-linked-to-covid-19.html

"Scientists warned on Wednesday of a potential wave of coronavirus-related brain damage as new evidence suggested Covid-19 can lead to severe neurological complications, including inflammation, psychosis and delirium."

"“Whether we will see an epidemic on a large scale of brain damage linked to the pandemic – perhaps similar to the encephalitis lethargica outbreak in the 1920s and 1930s after the 1918 influenza pandemic – remains to be seen,” said Michael Zandi, from UCL’s Institute of Neurology, who co-led the study."

"“Given that the disease has only been around for a matter of months, we might not yet know what long-term damage COVID-19 can cause,” said Ross Paterson, who co-led the study. “Doctors need to be aware of possible neurological effects, as early diagnosis can improve patient outcomes.”"

caveat emptor

Thepress wrote: »

Most end up nowhere near a hospital.

Sign a disclaimer that you will forgo hospital treatment,
Go lick a door knob.
I take your point that it won't kill many but it will take some out of the gene pool which can only be good.

https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1282380337503277057?s=20

SeaBreezes

ixoy wrote: »

There's very little evidence though there that it will cause issues in any significant numbers to most people. All it says is, "we're not sure" which is different to "we disagree".

They have the experience and are warning us.

Whether or not we choose to listen and learn from their experience so we don't have to go through their experience is our choice.
You want to take the risk? Be my guest.

I'd prefer not to stick my hand in the fire to find out its hot... when Ive been warned..

They said:
"At first, initially, we thought it was a bad flu, then we thought it was a bad flu with a very bad pneumonia, it was the phase when you came here,
but subsequently we discovered that it is a systemic illness with vessel damage in the whole body with renal involvement, cerebral involvement,"
he told me in the now silent COVID-19 emergency room that was overwhelmed a few months ago.
"So we are seeing other acute manifestations of renal failure that require dialysis; or stroke,
and then acute myocardial infarction, so a lot of complications or other manifestations of the virus.
"And also now we see a significant proportion of the population with chronic damage from the virus."

Researchers identified serious neurological complications arising from COVID-19 including delirium, brain inflammation, stroke and nerve damage in 43 people aged 16 to 85.
Some of the patients had experienced no severe breathing problems at all, with the neurological disorder being the first and only sign that they had coronavirus.

Assetbacked

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sign a disclaimer that you will forgo hospital treatment,
Go lick a door knob.
I take your point that it won't kill many but it will take some out of the gene pool which can only be good.

https://twitter.com/balleralert/status/1282380337503277057?s=20

How many times did you tug yourself off to this story?

Did you see the man, hardly a bastion of good health. One swallow does not a summer make.

dundalkfc10

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Reading this morning that there's concern in some quarters of government after NPHET advice last night but that NPHET didn't give guidance either way yes or no.

Issues for government seem to be giving a green list and if someone goes to that country they can go to as many bars on their holiday as they want and just come home but they'd still be telling people here you can't go to the local pub.

Secondly opinion appears to be to attempt to stop the house party issue you need to open the pubs so people are spread out in a controlled environment and not in houses.

Personally I'd say we'll see pubs given the go ahead, nightclubs not a hope. Outdoor gatherings up to 500 and maybe indoor to stay the same but judging off Leo's comments yesterday it sounds like phase 4 goes ahead.

NPHET have issued concerns at every stage so its nothing new.

Cabinet meeting from 5.30 this evening

You can already go to numerous bars in the North and come home

Newry was packed with Southern Reg Cars at the weekend

political analyst

Thepress wrote: »

Were throwing away our lives for what??

The virus hysteria is destroying lives all over the world.

I cannot work out why WHO want deaths with covid instead of from covid.

Makes no sense.

Lives are being destroyed while nutters on twitter demand more freedoms to be removed.

When will someone shout stop?

How the hell is this sarcasm going to help?

Assetbacked

Thepress wrote: »

Exactly he looked extremely overweight and unhealthy.

Possibly died of something else anyway and media faked the story.

Well, I'm not saying that.

My point is that to conflate one ignorant American who claims it was a hoax, then dies, with the vast majority of those who are saying it is relatively harmless for most of us is just wrong.

Since the beginning of this, some people find it so hard to just admit that the illness is not that serious for the huge majority of people.
Every single stat available reveals as much.
For most people, the symptoms will be very very mild. This is great news.

With 13 million cases, of course there will be a few horror stories. And of course the media will love to print those stories.

You won't sell papers by writing stories about a man who caught Covid, went back to work 3 weeks later and lived happily ever after.

ixoy

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Whether or not we choose to listen and learn from their experience so we don't have to go through their experience is our choice.
You want to take the risk? Be my guest.

What risk are you referring to? I've no intention of getting the disease, been following all the restrictions and will continue to do so. What's that got to do with the separate topic of wondering the figures as to how many experience secondary complications? Nobody's doubting they happen, what is pertinent is how often it is.

ACitizenErased

LATEST TESTING UPDATE

Tests conducted last 24hrs: 4387
Tests conducted last 7 days: 49372
Positive tests last 24hrs: 17
Positivity rate last 7 days: 0.3%

caveat emptor

Jaysus,

Seems like we could be in for a nasty property price correction too if commercial property market takes a hit. I don't know anyone going back to office.
I imagine these firms will not be extending their lease. Could see the same sort of contagion during financial crisis.
That's all we need. I wouldn't like to be left holding the bag....

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/central-bank-warns-of-covid-19-risks-to-property-market-1.4280680

Tokyo

Hector Savage wrote: »

I can hear people ripping the prick offa themselves ... probably have the whole choking whilst having a **** setup going on ...

Mod: Hardly what could be called "adding to the discussion." Don't post in the thread again.

cnocbui

caveat emptor wrote: »

Jaysus,

Seems like we could be in for a nasty property price correction too if commercial property market takes a hit. I don't know anyone going back to office.
I imagine these firms will not be extending their lease. Could see the same sort of contagion during financial crisis.
That's all we need. I wouldn't like to be left holding the bag....

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/central-bank-warns-of-covid-19-risks-to-property-market-1.4280680

Luckily for the deeply concerned, there is a thread for people currently engaged in buying or selling residential properties at his moment, where it is quite clear that residential properties are scarce, in high demand with generally increasing prices.

Assetbacked

caveat emptor wrote: »

Jaysus,

Seems like we could be in for a nasty property price correction too if commercial property market takes a hit. I don't know anyone going back to office.
I imagine these firms will not be extending their lease. Could see the same sort of contagion during financial crisis.
That's all we need. I wouldn't like to be left holding the bag....

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/central-bank-warns-of-covid-19-risks-to-property-market-1.4280680

The risk has been outsourced with respect to commercial property. This is all overseas capital which means they will be the losers in the event of a commercial property crash, not the Irish taxpayers.

MerlinSouthDub

ACitizenErased wrote: »

LATEST TESTING UPDATE

Tests conducted last 24hrs: 4387
Tests conducted last 7 days: 49372
Positive tests last 24hrs: 17
Positivity rate last 7 days: 0.3%

Great news, anything less than 20 is good to hear

Non solum non ambulabit

ACitizenErased wrote: »

LATEST TESTING UPDATE

Tests conducted last 24hrs: 4387
Tests conducted last 7 days: 49372
Positive tests last 24hrs: 17
Positivity rate last 7 days: 0.3%

17 tests in the last 24 hours. I am expecting low/mid teens new cases today. It has to be under 20. If not the data on positives tests is incorrect

caveat emptor

Assetbacked wrote: »

The risk has been outsourced with respect to commercial property. This is all overseas capital which means they will be the losers in the event of a commercial property crash, not the Irish taxpayers.

Good to know. I guess this relevant because cover is affecting people's livelihood.
So worst case scenario if multinationals don't need as many people to be in the office and don't renew leases etc the Irish Real Estate Funds (Irefs) won't take hit.

The fact that multinationals etc won't require as many people to be win the city means that there is not the same pool of people going for the overpriced rental properties? Contagion will occur when the rental market is not as attractive as it once was so all of the institutional foreign money won't be buoying up those prices.

What about all of the people who invested in holiday lettings in the hope of getting some of that airbnb money? Who'll pay their mortgage.

Guess time will tell. We could revisit it in a year and see what affects if any on the market occur.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/property-price-growth-slowed-in-may-as-transactions-plunged-1.4305091

People going mental.....

https://twitter.com/weeaboo/status/1241555854446518272?s=20

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/04/how-the-covid-19-crisis-locked-airbnb-out-of-its-own-homes

Onesea

Alot of people say the line "we are learning more about the virus everyday"
So what concrete information have they learned about the virus?
Does it effect the blood initially then the lungs?
What other illness is it most similar to?
How contagious is it?
Is it airborne?
Does it survive on surfaces?
With testing so widespread worldwide what is the death rate for the middle aged?

Have been watching pax flights going all around Europe, going from Africa to Europe, North and South America to Europe. I think we have abiut a month's of normalish international traffic. Should nt this virus have been reimported to Ireland and all other EU countries by now?