Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Icantthinkof1

fire_man wrote: »

My brother was tested today. How quick are they getting results out at the moment?

My husband was tested Monday at lunchtime he got his results this morn via text at 8am- negative thankfully; hope your brother gets the same result

Drumpot

Arghus wrote: »

The death rate from Covid amongst retail workers is higher in the UK than in the general population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/english-mask-plan-will-help-tackle-high-covid-death-rate-for-shop-staff-matt-hancock

When I said definitive, I meant accepted from multiple peer reviewed studies. Is that matched in Italy, USA and other high infected areas?

Eod100

Deleted User wrote: »

Are poeple who cannot wear a mask for legitimate reasons not allowed go to the shops?

Rules rightly allow for exceptions

is_that_so

Drumpot wrote: »

I think over the coming months, masks will become more common place.

Some will be dragged kicking and screaming into using them but it will become more socially unacceptable to not wear them in certain environments.

As more evidence shows where masks are most successful, we will amend use.

But right now we don’t know enough to make any confident calls.

If we have to think in terms of coming months then we will have failed in our public health. The next wave is mental health.

piplip87

Lads is there an announcement today and if so what time

stephenjmcd

Hurrache wrote: »

I know what he means, but like I said, you're either in the shop, or you're not. If it's mandatory there's no discussion as to if you're just grabbing a loaf of bread, or you're doing a weekly shop.

Why do you think you're exempt?

I think there's a difference between being in somewhere for a minute and being somewhere for 60 minutes now don't you ?

If I fill the car up with petrol and happen to not have a mask am I to not go into the shop to pay then ?

Let's be practical about this.

And I know your going to say a shop is a shop so its a pointless discussion.

Eod100

piplip87 wrote: »

Lads is there an announcement today and if so what time

For NPHET? Think it's tomorrow as usual at 5.30/6ish

stephenjmcd

piplip87 wrote: »

Lads is there an announcement today and if so what time

Cabinet meeting at 5.30 but no idea if theres a press conference after or what way it'll work

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

Which hasn't been their strongest skill so far.

I don't know why they don't have a focus group of say 10 random people from public and would think all these questions would come up naturally then. Seems to be an afterthought with them.

I am starting to get a sense that some of them are leaning towards the zero COVID pitch. The 30% numbers in shops has exercised some plus the UK is going to go for this. We do seem to be aping them in a lot of ways. Once we also valued personal responsibility over legal threats.

What Username Guidelines

A hairdresser working in Ardee tested positive. Similar happened in the states and the worker had contact with 80 clients but wore a mask, didn’t pass it on to anyone. All eyes on the Louth numbers this week.

https://www.facebook.com/136336416383862/posts/4696294367054688/?d=n

Eod100

Eod100 wrote: »

Rules rightly allow for exceptions

It will be like the Tour de France then - "cant wear a mask, asthma" instead of "need that inhaler, asthma".

fire_man

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

My husband was tested Monday at lunchtime he got his results this morn via text at 8am- negative thankfully; hope your brother gets the same result

Thanks for reply.Glad to hear was negative.

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Cabinet meeting at 5.30 but no idea if theres a press conference after or what way it'll work

It'll go on for a few hours. More likely to leak or be included in a press briefing about next Monday later in the week.

Polar101

I doubt mask wearing is going to be enforced in shops. Just as it isn't on buses - at least the ones I've been on this week had a lot of people who didn't bother with a mask. They all looked to be under 25 too. Some people are going to wear a mask, and some people don't care.

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

It'll go on for a few hours. More likely to leak or be included in a press briefing about next Monday later in the week.

Depends really, Varadkar used to do an update after cabinet and seeing as its now Wednesday there'll need to be something today for any business hoping to open next week.

Seeing as this is the first big decision maybe Martin might do one

ACitizenErased

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

A hairdresser working in Ardee tested positive. Similar happened in the states and the worker had contact with 80 clients but wore a mask, didn’t pass it on to anyone. All eyes on the Louth numbers this week.

https://www.facebook.com/136336416383862/posts/4696294367054688/?d=n

Poor woman, sounds devastated in that post. Hopefully nobody else will be affected.

D.Q

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think there's a difference between being in somewhere for a minute and being somewhere for 60 minutes now don't you ?

If I fill the car up with petrol and happen to not have a mask am I to not go into the shop to pay then ?

Let's be practical about this.

And I know your going to say a shop is a shop so its a pointless discussion.

I can imagine you scoffing at the poor shop worker that dares you to wear a mask for a minute before coming in.

"lets be practical about this" probably a direct quote from the scenario.

why do you think that there should be one rule for everyone, and you're entitled to you own little subsection of the rules for your little drinks stop, or your petrol.

Arghus

Polar101 wrote: »

I doubt mask wearing is going to be enforced in shops. Just as it isn't on buses - at least the ones I've been on this week had a lot of people who didn't bother with a mask. They all looked to be under 25 too. Some people are going to wear a mask, and some people don't care.

I have a wait and see perspective on this. It all depends what happens, if more and more people wear masks then it could exert its own form of social pressure on people to wear masks who otherwise wouldn't.

Drumpot

is_that_so wrote: »

If we have to think in terms of coming months then we will have failed in our public health. The next wave is mental health.

I think we have to stop thinking about this virus as if it’s a social issue that we can easily manipulate. We need to adapt to the virus and that means trade offs. I don’t want shutdowns and open ups , I want full open ups but in a manner that has factored in long term living with the virus.

It feels like there is this idea that a vaccine will defo be gotten in the coming months which may or may not happen. I think the best approach is to plan that it’s gonna be around for a few years and make changes and investment in infrastructure for this. I don’t see that, I see a lot of half measures, confused messages and no real alternatives being discussed. Maybe they are in the background but I’m not overly confident this is the case!

In terms of mental health, I think part of the issue is people need hope but for some that involves only seeing the positive. Some people struggle on the negative thinking it’s all doom and gloom. The truth is somewhere in between and we all need to accept that we all react differently to crisis.

We are not in control of this and we don’t have all the answers right now. We have to accept and acknowledge that. We can manage it and hopefully change our behaviour to make it less damaging. We can’t close down everything indefinitely and we will probably need to experiment a bit with our population.

setanta1984

Drumpot wrote: »

We don’t know why supermarkets have not yet been found to be responsible for massive clusters. Nothing is 100% proven or disproven, including the potential benefits of masks Being worn in that environment.

You can’t declare something to be something 100% accurate when you don’t have answers to the reason why this might be the case. Again, misguided presumptions that ignores a common sense approach.

You're just repeating yourself and ignoring facts I mentioned.

In very simple terms, we have proven to have gotten down to the tiny incidences of the virus in Ireland without having made masks mandatory, and even the optional take up has been very small. Going all the way back to April.
That in itself proves that mandatory masks for every person in Ireland in shops are not required to bring the virus to miniscule levels and keep it there.
So whatever about any other measures, the one we do know is NOT vital is mandatory masks.

It's a completely disproportionate measure. May, June and July have proven it. How can anyone dispute our numbers since early May?

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Depends really, Varadkar used to do an update after cabinet and seeing as its now Wednesday there'll need to be something today for any business hoping to open next week.

Seeing as this is the first big decision maybe Martin might do one

The fact that the mask news was leaked I'd expect to hear from mm on the final phase of open up to give notice

Eod100

Looks like phase 4 may be delayed. https://twitter.com/jackpowerIT/status/1283425620630921216?s=19

timmy_mallet

Arghus wrote: »

I have a wait and see perspective on this. It all depends what happens, if more and more people wear masks then it could exert its own form of social pressure on people to wear masks who otherwise wouldn't.

And it's efficacy, especially if people have poor coverings, misuse, or putting their hands up to them. And negative effects of prolonged usage of masks.

A recent case I saw was internal, 3 infected, touching a shared door handle. Masks wouldn't have solved that. And would potentially make it worse if the users were removing their mask exiting a building.

Hurrache

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think there's a difference between being in somewhere for a minute and being somewhere for 60 minutes now don't you ?

If I fill the car up with petrol and happen to not have a mask am I to not go into the shop to pay then ?

Let's be practical about this.

And I know your going to say a shop is a shop so its a pointless discussion.

Don't be an eejit, if you're going in for a minute just put the feckin thing on ffs.

stephenjmcd

D.Q wrote: »

I can imagine you scoffing at the poor shop worker that dares you to wear a mask for a minute before coming in.

"lets be practical about this" probably a direct quote from the scenario.

why do you think that there should be one rule for everyone, and you're entitled to you own little subsection of the rules for your little drinks stop, or your petrol.

Eh no I'd never abuse anyone doing their job so less of the personal insinuating there please.

Enlighten me then if someone for example doesn't have a mask in a car and fills it up in the petrol station what do you suggest ?

There's a difference between being in an enclosed space for 1 minute or 60 minutes is there not ?

Arghus

I think most people are mentally more resilient than you'll often hear said around here.

There's often an assumption from the "pro economic" crowd that thousands of people will just kill themselves.

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like phase 4 may be delayed. https://twitter.com/jackpowerIT/status/1283425620630921216?s=19

Unbelievable, there's not going to be much difference between phase 4 on Monday or phase 4 in 2 weeks time with the case numbers.

Roll back the numbers allowed to gather indoors, what are they going to police every house party in the country.

We either start to learn to live along side this or we don't

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

I think most people are mentally more resilient than you'll often hear said around here.

There's often an assumption from the "pro economic" crowd that thousands of people will just kill themselves.

Take away the Covid payment and the pay holiday on the mortgage and things could quickly change.

At the moment, we are paying people to do nothing. That won't last forever.

Drumpot

setanta1984 wrote: »

You're just repeating yourself and ignoring facts I mentioned.

In very simple terms, we have proven to have gotten down to the tiny incidences of the virus in Ireland without having made masks mandatory, and even the optional take up has been very small. Going all the way back to April.
That in itself proves that mandatory masks for every person in Ireland in shops are not required to bring the virus to miniscule levels and keep it there.
So whatever about any other measures, the one we do know is NOT vital is mandatory masks.

It's a completely disproportionate measure. May, June and July have proven it. How can anyone dispute our numbers since early May?

Are you serious ?

We basically locked everybody in their homes for months. You are putting two and two together and getting whatever result you want to believe.

You are basically presuming anecdotal evidence (that doesnt seem consistent if
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...f-matt-hancock ) that is just that, anecdotal.

If you want to supply more comprehensive evidence that backs up your claims then please do, I would be delighted if somehow the virus doesnt spread as much in certain shops.

ixoy

Arghus wrote: »

I have a wait and see perspective on this. It all depends what happens, if more and more people wear masks then it could exert its own form of social pressure on people to wear masks who otherwise wouldn't.

I doubt it - many didn't give a crap because it's less likely to affect them. I fully agree with what I overheard someone on the DART say when a group of teenagers got on without a single mask between them: it'll only work if some more courageous ones within their own immediate peer group do it and have the courage to challenge the rest.

zinfandel

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

A hairdresser working in Ardee tested positive. Similar happened in the states and the worker had contact with 80 clients but wore a mask, didn’t pass it on to anyone. All eyes on the Louth numbers this week.

https://www.facebook.com/136336416383862/posts/4696294367054688/?d=n

hopefully all will be well and it may prove the point that wearing masks is effective..

is_that_so

Drumpot wrote: »

I think we have to stop thinking about this virus as if it’s a social issue that we can easily manipulate. We need to adapt to the virus and that means trade offs. I don’t want shutdowns and open ups , I want full open ups but in a manner that has factored in long term living with the virus.

It feels like there is this idea that a vaccine will defo be gotten in the coming months which may or may not happen. I think the best approach is to plan that it’s gonna be around for a few years and make changes and investment in infrastructure for this. I don’t see that, I see a lot of half measures, confused messages and no real alternatives being discussed. Maybe they are in the background but I’m not overly confident this is the case!

In terms of mental health, I think part of the issue is people need hope but for some that involves only seeing the positive. Some people struggle on the negative thinking it’s all doom and gloom. The truth is somewhere in between and we all need to accept that we all react differently to crisis.

We are not in control of this and we don’t have all the answers right now. We have to accept and acknowledge that. We can manage it and hopefully change our behaviour to make it less damaging. We can’t close down everything indefinitely and we will probably need to experiment a bit with our population.

Living with the virus is not having people masked up for the next six months. As our trends show we will/should be at very very low numbers soon and it's more than overkill if that's going to be our public health policy.
Mental health will become a greater issue as this goes on as it forces people to normalise very unnatural behaviour. Sure, we've been through a tough time but I've yet to hear anyone from government articulate any reference to the mental side of it.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Unbelievable, there's not going to be much difference between phase 4 on Monday or phase 4 in 2 weeks time.

Looks like they're worried about indoor gatherings so house parties but doubt that will change behaviour tbh. I think they could be worried that if there's spike with pubs opening plus at house parties it could be bad. Maybe writing was on the wall when guidelines weren't out in advance

Just to summarize things, we doubled the number of people we were testing, found some extra cases, now we are panicking and probably won't allow pubs to reopen and will enforce masks when there is really no need to.

Arghus

ixoy wrote: »

I doubt it - many didn't give a crap because it's less likely to affect them. I fully agree with what I overheard someone on the DART say when a group of teenagers got on without a single mask between them: it'll only work if some more courageous ones within their own immediate peer group do it and have the courage to challenge the rest.

You may be right, but we'll see.

Utopia Parkway

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Unbelievable, there's not going to be much difference between phase 4 on Monday or phase 4 in 2 weeks time.

Roll back the numbers allowed to gather indoors, what are they going to police every house party in the country.

I don't see the numbers changing that much in a few weeks anyway. We will likely be in a similar spot in a few weeks time.

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like they're worried about indoor gatherings so house parties but doubt that will change behaviour tbh. I think they could be worried that if there's spike with pubs opening plus at house parties it could be bad. Maybe writing was on the wall when guidelines weren't out in advance

Yeah look house parties have been going on throughout so not much is going to change in that sense as you've mentioned.

Unfortunately I'd say for many towns and villages now they won't see many pubs reopening

SleetAndSnow

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to summarize things, we doubled the number of people we were testing, found some extra cases, now we are panicking and probably won't allow pubs to reopen and will enforce masks when there is really no need to.

So we should stop testing because no testing = No cases and open everything up and be covid free, stats wise? Love this idea! /s

stargazer 68

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like they're worried about indoor gatherings so house parties but doubt that will change behaviour tbh. I think they could be worried that if there's spike with pubs opening plus at house parties it could be bad. Maybe writing was on the wall when guidelines weren't out in advance

Indoor gatherings are already happening. Can't get a table for more than 6 people and can only stay 105 minutes. Forget it - lets just go to one of the houses!

is_that_so

Arghus wrote: »

I think most people are mentally more resilient than you'll often hear said around here.

There's often an assumption from the "pro economic" crowd that thousands of people will just kill themselves.

They are up to a point, but they do need to see an endgame, which we don't have. Most people I meet are thoroughly fed up with it all, but soldier on.

stephenjmcd

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I don't see the numbers changing that much in a few weeks anyway. We will likely be in a similar spot in a few weeks time.

Yup there's going to be cases and I don't see them being below 20 most days so its time to start living alongside it with the measures in place.
Yet I'll still be able to go into a pub next week so long as I buy a meal, covid is smart knowing you've had food.

Even if they push phase 4 out by 2 weeks that's the weekend before a Bank Holiday and there's not a chance they'll do it then so your looking probably at 10th August as was the original plan

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah look house parties have been going on throughout so not much is going to change in that sense as you've mentioned.

Unfortunately I'd say for many towns and villages now they won't see many pubs reopening

I think the discrepancy between pubs that can serve food and can't will be a sore point. Wonder will a few open that way? As it is was only 3 weeks but if it's another 3 weeks they might say feck it they need to get income.

SeaBreezes

setanta1984 wrote: »

Insanity.

At the very height of daily case numbers, literally the only place people could go to were shops, and very few people wore masks. Almost no staff wore them (at least in my town).
And despite this the cases consistently dropped down as far as single figures to the level we are at now.
Through every stage of reopening of all retail and shops the numbers were unaffected. No masks mandatory.

If that is not concrete proof that they do not need to be forced on the entire population in order for shops to be safe I don't know what is. It's pure PR to keep twitter mobs appeased.

In the UK, shop assistants are 75% more likely to die from COVID19.
Masks have been scientifically proven to help stop the spread of disease.

In my mind, its insanity NOT to wear a mask for the few minutes it takes to shop. Why not, when you could save a life?

Be like Trump, pretend you're the lone ranger..

Eod100

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Indoor gatherings are already happening. Can't get a table for more than 6 people and can only stay 105 minutes. Forget it - lets just go to one of the houses!

They are and can't see these guidelines affecting them tbh

Drumpot

is_that_so wrote: »

Living with the virus is not having people masked up for the next six months. As our trends show we will/should be at very very low numbers soon and it's more than overkill if that's going to be our public health policy.
Mental health will become a greater issue as this goes on as it forces people to normalise very unnatural behaviour. Sure, we've been through a tough time but I've yet to hear anyone from government articulate any reference to the mental side of it.

How does wearing a mask affect people’s mental health?

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Unbelievable, there's not going to be much difference between phase 4 on Monday or phase 4 in 2 weeks time with the case numbers.

Roll back the numbers allowed to gather indoors, what are they going to police every house party in the country.

We either start to learn to live along side this or we don't

Young people of Ireland you have been very bold and had house parties so now MM we ground us all
That sounds like a good as an excuse as any ffs

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

They are and can't see these guidelines affecting them tbh

Had planned to head out with a few mates next week as I've a few days off work. Just got a text now basically saying house party if the pubs don't open.

These are lads that haven't had a house party throughout the restrictions

is_that_so

Drumpot wrote: »

How does wearing a mask affect people’s mental health?

It is supposed to be a temporary measure and months is not temporary. It also shows that is not over nor looking like it's over.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Had planned to head out with a few mates next week as I've a few days off work. Just got a text now basically saying house party if the pubs don't open.

These are lads that haven't had a house party throughout the restrictions

That could be a fairly big unintended consequence. You'd wonder how many cases are from that idiot who went to that party with covid?

the corpo

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I think there's a difference between being in somewhere for a minute and being somewhere for 60 minutes now don't you ?

If I fill the car up with petrol and happen to not have a mask am I to not go into the shop to pay then ?

Let's be practical about this.

To be practical though, you mask up as you have no control over the scenario.

What if you pop in to pay for your petrol, only one person in front of you, all looks grand, but then they take an age paying, there's a machine problem, whatever, but sh1t frequently happens. If you were already wearing your mask, no big deal, but if you weren't all of a sudden you put yourself, and others, in a compromised position. That's why it makes sense to make it mandatory. Just in case....

It's also a courtesy to those that are working in the shops. "I know you're in this environment all day, I won't be adding to your headache"