Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

gizmo23

stephenjmcd wrote: »

More issues being raised about the house party clampdown, Gardaí appearently don't have the power to enter a house and shut one down, if they do its an illegal entry. They need a warrant.

It just keeps getting better. What a mess

I seriously wonder how this keeps happening ?? Like those nobody in the irish government do any research into things??

Is it simply a case of "ah f^^k lads we may do something ... sure tell em the guards will shut them down.. nobody will question us "

I am in favour of keeping pubs closed its only a personal opinion I just think it's a bit of a risk right now but the logic they use to do it is baffling. Like obviously they are worried about the august bank holiday.... but human nature being what it is it would be highly reasonable to think those getting pissed on the 1st 2nd 3rd of august will just do it on the 16th 17th and take the 18th off

fritzelly

gizmo23 wrote: »

100% agree it would also appeal to first timers. Which again once they get the first will come back the year after etc. Unfortunately though money will be king in some quarters

How much would it really cost the government each year 10 million if that?

Last thing we need is a flu crisis on top of a possible covid x wave

D.Q

stephenjmcd wrote: »

More issues being raised about the house party clampdown, Gardaí appearently don't have the power to enter a house and shut one down, if they do its an illegal entry. They need a warrant.

It just keeps getting better. What a mess

Only thing to do is grant emergency powers.

dundalkfc10

stephenjmcd wrote: »

More issues being raised about the house party clampdown, Gardaí appearently don't have the power to enter a house and shut one down, if they do its an illegal entry. They need a warrant.

It just keeps getting better. What a mess

Of course they need a warrant. I wouldn't let a Gardaí into my house without one.

KathleenGrant

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense yes. Nonsense to assume based on someone’s age that they’ve had a harder life than anyone else’s and it’s certainly not some weird reason to keep people out of work. If the over eighties are so worried (and any that I know aren’t by the way) then they can cocoon themselves.

You make your point. I have to hold my hands up and say.......sorry it's not hands, it's a hand,
I have to hold my hand up and say..... oh wait it's not a hand it's some of my hand.
Ok it's a finger.
I'm holding up a finger.

cnocbui

gizmo23 wrote: »

Sorry this is just a lie .... it has given them flu like symptoms which is a side effect of many vaccinations including the flu jab as reported here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/coronavirus-vaccine-moderna-final-phase-testing/

It has not made them sicker than coronavirus.

I don't know why I am bothering.

A participant in the 250 mcg dose group had severe fever, onset the evening of the second vaccination, along with severe chills and mild fatigue, myalgia, and headache. In the early morning of the day after vaccination the participant developed recurrent severe fever, chills, fatigue, and headache, moderate myalgia and nausea, and mild arthralgia. The participant was evaluated in an urgent care center and received symptomatic treatment prior to discharge. A nasal swab specimen was negative for SARS-CoV-2 bypolymerase chain reaction and positive for adenovirus by a fluorescent antibody assay. After sleeping for several hours at home, upon standing the participant was lightheaded and nauseous, vomited, and then fainted.Lightheadedness persisted for several hours. Other systemic symptoms improved over the course of the day. Mild headache was present the next day and mild fatigue was reported through post vaccination day 6.The unsolicited adverse events of lightheadedness and fainting (syncope) were judged as severe and related to vaccination and were classified as MedDRA® system organ classnervous system disorders (Table S3).Safety laboratory grade 2 or higher adverse eventsA total of five grade 2 safety laboratory adverse events, defined by a standard toxicity grading scale,7were identified; no grade 3 events were identified. Of the five grade 2 events,

Most healthy people would not get that sick from a SARS-2 infection. That is a fact, not a lie.

That was for one subject out of 45. The trial supervisors note that the severe reactions, including the above, were for the 250 mcg protocol and that they won't be going there, unsurprisingly.

The next trial involves 30,000, so fingers crossed no one ends up with narcolepsy or anything else similarly serious as some did with the similarly rushed N1H1 influenza vaccine.

Dozens of NHS workers are fighting for compensation after developing narcolepsy from a swine flu vaccine that was rushed into service without the usual testing when the disease spread across the globe in 2009. They say it has destroyed their careers and their health.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe

D.Q

Surely not linking buzzfeed hahaha

cnocbui

D.Q wrote: »

Only thing to do is grant emergency powers.

Well since we are not at war and there is no armed insurrection, they might be struggling to find a constitutional basis on which to do that - oh wait, they already did that with all the other measures - never mind, looks like they are happy to do whatever they like.

fritzelly

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't know why I am bothering.

Where is the quoted text from?

nocoverart

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

This is amazing, thank you. Now change your username to 'The Onion'

gizmo23

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't know why I am bothering.



Most healthy people would not get that sick from a SARS-2 infection. That is a fact, not a lie.

That was for one subject out of 45. The trial supervisors note that the severe reactions, including the above, were for the 250 mcg protocol and that they won't be going there, unsurprisingly.

The next trial involves 30,000, so fingers crossed no one ends up with narcolepsy or anything else similarly serious as some did with the similarly rushed N1H1 influenza vaccine.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-vaccine-was-safe

Sorry why are quoting swine flu what relevances those that have for this vaccine?

That's like me listing the side effects to panadol and telling people not to take the flu vaccine.

Also your admitting that they have found a problem and have resolved it by not using that level of dosage again ? And now the vaccine going forward to next phase is safer ?

And also that it was the dosage level the issue not infact the vaccine like you stated ?

And you bother probably the same reason as I do ... to get an understanding of the vaccines and it's interesting hope that answers that question to a satisfactory degree

cnocbui

D.Q wrote: »

Surely not linking buzzfeed hahaha

This is the Daily Mail bleat: Even if it is demonstrably true and accurate, it clearly isn't because it appeared on site X.

So, your turn to prove that the buzzfeed article is inaccurate or misleading, if for no other reason than to prove you are capable of more than lazy on-liners.

cnocbui

gizmo23 wrote: »

Sorry why are quoting swine flu what relevances those that have for this vaccine?

That's like me listing the side effects to panadol and telling people not to take the flu vaccine.

I addressed that by saying "the similarly rushed".

Also your admitting that they have found a problem and have resolved it by not using that level of dosage again ? And now the vaccine going forward to next phase is safer ?

No I am not admitting they have solved anything, I said they are addressing the issue, which in this context means they are going to go forward with the lower dose protocol, but there is absolutely no reason to think that some of the 30,000 won't have just as adverse experiences at the lower dosage, due to indivdual variability.

And also that it was the dosage level the issue not infact the vaccine like you stated ?

It wasn't a dose of water that made that person sick for days, it was the vaccine.

And you bother probably the same reason as I do ... to get an understanding of the vaccines and it's interesting hope that answers that question to a satisfactory degree

Er, no.

cnocbui

fritzelly wrote: »

Where is the quoted text from?

Stop being so lazy and work it out. I'll even give you a hint - you asked for a link...

fritzelly

cnocbui wrote: »

Stop being so lazy and work it out. I'll even give you a hint - you asked for a link...

And yet the link you gave does not have that text in it...hmmm so where is that text from?

cnocbui

fritzelly wrote: »

And yet the link you gave does not have that text in it...hmmm so where is that text from?

That link might have secondary links. There might even be an Appendix, if you are lucky.

fritzelly

cnocbui wrote: »

That link might have secondary links. There might even be an Appendix, if you are lucky.

How about instead of expecting people to go on an egg hunt for some anonymous text you just provide the link

spookwoman

fritzelly wrote: »

How about instead of expecting people to go on an egg hunt for some anonymous text you just provide the link

They expect everyone else to do it.

gizmo23

cnocbui wrote: »

I addressed that by saying "the similarly rushed".



No I am not admitting they have solved anything, I said they are addressing the issue, which in this context means they are going to go forward with the lower dose protocol, but there is absolutely no reason to think that some of the 30,000 won't have just as adverse experiences at the lower dosage, due to indivdual variability.



It wasn't a dose of water that made that person sick for days, it was the vaccine.



Er, no.

But you see the vaccine has been deemed safe to proceed to the next phase ... but the level of dosage has to be tampered with. It was the level of dosage that made the person sick hence the very reason they under go trials.... in fact it's a good thing they are spotting problems.

The lower level has been deemed more than adequate (in fact promising ) to proceed to the next phase of trials.

And regarding the "similar rushed" you do realise that no vaccine ever will be 100% without side effects the same with tablets... it is impossible. I mean I have to sign a weaver everytime I have general anesthetic stating I am aware of the potential side effects...



And for every person that developed narcolepsy it could be pointed to 20 peoples lives the vaccine saved. I would personal take narcolepsy If it meant saving my life.

At the end of the day what you stated half the participants got symptoms worse than covid from the vaccine is at worst plain lieing at best spreading misinformation to suit your agenda.... as half the participants didnt receive that level of dosage it was in fact even in the article you posted ONE PERSON developed those symptoms

cnocbui

fritzelly wrote: »

How about instead of expecting people to go on an egg hunt for some anonymous text you just provide the link

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime

....

fritzelly

spookwoman wrote: »

They expect everyone else to do it.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but the severe symptoms were caused by another virus and the light headedness/fainting was caused by the vaccination

fritzelly

cnocbui wrote: »

....

And set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life :rolleyes:

gizmo23

cnocbui wrote: »

I addressed that by saying "the similarly rushed".



No I am not admitting they have solved anything, I said they are addressing the issue, which in this context means they are going to go forward with the lower dose protocol, but there is absolutely no reason to think that some of the 30,000 won't have just as adverse experiences at the lower dosage, due to indivdual variability.



It wasn't a dose of water that made that person sick for days, it was the vaccine.



Er, no.

fritzelly wrote: »

And set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life :rolleyes:

I would possibley stick an advisory note on that for people not to try that... logical we know not to but there seems a sever lack of logic floating around lately

ceadaoin.

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Of course they need a warrant. I wouldn't let a Gardaí into my house without one.

Didn't new zealand bring in emergency powers to allow police to enter homes without a warrant? "Temporary " of course.

From chatting to some people directly, reading some stuff from friends and family on Facebook, and from reading here, I get the impression that morale left left the building yesterday and people are done caring.

Understandable. The rules are so arbitrary and contradictory, it seems the government knows how stupid certain aspects of the approach are and instead of dealing with those things, it's easier to just make everyone suffer.

I would also be done with it all. I'm not even in Ireland and I feel frustrated about what people are going through.

cnocbui

The south-west Sydney cluster is a more infectious form of the virus than previously seen, the state's Chief Health Officer says, as NSW recorded 10 new cases of COVID-19 on Thursday.

...

It comes as Victoria confirmed a record 317 daily cases, the highest daily increase since the start of the pandemic. Of the cases, 28 are connected to known outbreaks and 289 are under investigation.

The tally surpassed last Friday’s 288 cases, the previous record-high. The state has recorded more than 200 cases for all but one of the past seven days. Two men in their 80s passed away, taking the state’s death toll to 29.
...

On Wednesday, Dr Chant said cases in the Casula cluster were becoming infectious as soon as one day after contracting the coronavirus.

She said while the incubation period for COVID-19 is usually within 14 days,"people have developed the symptoms, more towards the one day period than the 14[days]".

"It gives you very little time for the contact tracers, because you've got to get your cases diagnosed and then you've got to lock down those contacts," Dr Chant said.

"If you've got a sore throat today, don't wait for two days to get it diagnosed. Work with us. Go get tested day one because every day you can give us allows us to to stop that spread."

Earlier on Thursday, NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard warned young people not to become complacent about the threat of coronavirus as they are often the least ill but "can be the most infectious".

"[There was] a young bloke who had one of the highest infection levels we've ever seen. His viral load was capable of spreading to anyone near him," Mr Hazzard told Sydney radio station 2GB this morning.

"The health tracers tell me young people get out and about in the evening, and they go to lots of places. If you're sick, for heavens' sake stay home. You're putting everybody at risk.

"We really need young people to wake up, they can be extremely deadly to their elderly relatives."

He said 40 per cent of coronavirus cases were found in 18- to 29-year-olds.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/crossroads-hotel-outbreak-continues-to-grow-as-nsw-records-10-new-covid-19-cases-20200716-p55ckc.html

Sounds like the virus is getting more tricky. That quote about being told that young people get out and about in the evening and go to lots of places is worthy of Trump.

The Premier might want to shuffle that one off out of the cabinet.

ceadaoin.

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/crossroads-hotel-outbreak-continues-to-grow-as-nsw-records-10-new-covid-19-cases-20200716-p55ckc.html

Sounds like the virus is getting more tricky. That quote about being told that young people get out and about in the evening and go to lots of places is worthy of Trump.

The Premier might want to shuffle that one off out of the cabinet.

Sounds like the strain doing the rounds in the US, more contagious but not more severe

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/06/29/coronavirus-mutation-science/?arc404=true

Doesn't that make it less tricky? It wouldn't be all around the world if it was like that from the start..

fritzelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Doesn't that make it less tricky? It wouldn't be all around the world if it was like that from the start..

Yup - and what is this criteria where they know they've only been infected for a day and already contagiouos? Very vague article

Maybe it's mutated with an STI...

fritzelly

igCorcaigh wrote: »

https://twitter.com/josephfcox/status/1283593343365050368?s=19

Are you on the wrong thread?

bb1234567

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/coronavirus-death-rate.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR359G0Tc7QwMYWnVsQGLrNLgGfOX9mHgvDaD57xxjeyErtg8Ow4JeX7uHI

Interesting news, an online conference held by WHO and attended by 1300 scientists worldwide have finally came to a consensus that the IFR of COVID 19 is 0.64%, it is the first time since the pandemic emerged 6 months ago that WHO have published this official figure.

Those researchers looked at 267 studies in more than a dozen countries, and then chose the 25 they considered the most accurate, weighting them for accuracy and averaged the data. They concluded that the global I.F.R. was 0.64 percent.

It may not sound that high but if 50% of the world's population were to contract it, it would lead to 25 million deaths..55 million people die an average year globally.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/crossroads-hotel-outbreak-continues-to-grow-as-nsw-records-10-new-covid-19-cases-20200716-p55ckc.html

Sounds like the virus is getting more tricky. That quote about being told that young people get out and about in the evening and go to lots of places is worthy of Trump.

The Premier might want to shuffle that one off out of the cabinet.

Incubation period was always said to up to 14 days, but 14 days is an outlier. 3 to 7 days seems to have been the normal range to develop symptoms, and with pre symptomatic spread being seen up to 2 days prior to symptoms, being infectious after 1 day does not seem unusual

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

More issues being raised about the house party clampdown, Gardaí appearently don't have the power to enter a house and shut one down, if they do its an illegal entry. They need a warrant.

It just keeps getting better. What a mess

Plenty of ways for the gardai to intervene,
Sound complaint.
Trespass.
Criminal damage.
There are plenty more

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From chatting to some people directly, reading some stuff from friends and family on Facebook, and from reading here, I get the impression that morale left left the building yesterday and people are done caring.

Understandable. The rules are so arbitrary and contradictory, it seems the government knows how stupid certain aspects of the approach are and instead of dealing with those things, it's easier to just make everyone suffer.

I would also be done with it all. I'm not even in Ireland and I feel frustrated about what people are going through.

Very much so, 90% of my close family and friends have gone with whatever government have announced in the past few months.
Since last night the WhatsApp groups have been flooded and its literally as you describe the morale is gone.

Weekends away that were booked are being cancelled because well whats the point in even having a staycation and insread being replaced by people having house parties, the complete opposite to what the government wanted but surely anyone could have seen it coming

pjohnson

These same words of rebellion were due around March iirc. The people wont tolerate it, the pubs will open, fight the power etc.

Eod100

So non essential travel still advised against but they are publishing a green list on Monday. Does anyone see a logic in this? https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1283643972942991360?s=19

MickeyLeari

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Very much so, 90% of my close family and friends have gone with whatever government have announced in the past few months.
Since last night the WhatsApp groups have been flooded and its literally as you describe the morale is gone.

Weekends away that were booked are being cancelled because well whats the point in even having a staycation and insread being replaced by people having house parties, the complete opposite to what the government wanted but surely anyone could have seen it coming

I don’t get this. There is no evidence of problems with the existing pubs. Is this more a signal in terms of risk “the virus has not gone away” noting that some countries have had a spike although others including Germany have not had those spikes.

CalamariFritti

Within a couple of weeks we went from being on an uncomfortable but somewhat agreeable track back to listening about shenanigans around some family dynasty politician's drink driving cr@p followed by COVID dithering on travel followed by some utterly stupid masks and pubs decision showing complete incompetency. What a fkn mess. But you know what they say. We typically get the government we deserve. Someone voted those clowns back in, so no excuses.

road_high

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Very much so, 90% of my close family and friends have gone with whatever government have announced in the past few months.
Since last night the WhatsApp groups have been flooded and its literally as you describe the morale is gone.

Weekends away that were booked are being cancelled because well whats the point in even having a staycation and insread being replaced by people having house parties, the complete opposite to what the government wanted but surely anyone could have seen it coming

I feel their despair. We are heading towards late July and all I can ask is where is any of this going to end?
We are not “allowed” to take a foreign holiday until god knows when. If left up to the “new normal” brigade probably never.
The fun and spontaneity has been completely squeezed out of life.
I honestly think “the Virus” has completely changed many people. Text one friend last night that used to be a big pub goer and works in the medical field. “You haven’t seen what this virus does if you did you’d order in a take away”...
Now they think they are being completely rational and right. And I’m afraid that’s the kind of person and attitude that is driving National policy currently. I just know we can’t afford to keep going on like this, I’d be very surprised not to see it becoming more difficult for us to keep borrowing as we are

Moragle

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I agree especially this year free for all

The hse will provide the flu vaccine free to everyone in at risk groups regardless of medical card status this year. At risk groups includes close contacts of vulnerable people, so you dont actually need to have an underlying condition yourself to get a free flu vaccine this year

pjohnson

road_high wrote: »

I feel their despair. We are heading towards late July and all I can ask is where is any of this going to end?
We are not “allowed” to take a foreign holiday until god knows when. If left up to the “new normal” brigade probably never.
The fun and spontaneity has been completely squeezed out of life.
I honestly think “the Virus” has completely changed many people. Text one friend last night that used to be a big pub goer and works in the medical field. “You haven’t seen what this virus does if you did you’d order in a take away”...
Now they think they are being completely rational and right. And I’m afraid that’s the kind of person and attitude that is driving National policy currently. I just know we can’t afford to keep going on like this, I’d be very surprised not to see it becoming more difficult for us to keep borrowing as we are

And you naturally disagree yeah?

road_high

pjohnson wrote: »

And you naturally disagree yeah?

Yes. Nonsensical OTT rubbish. We’ll see in the coming budgets the real consequences. These people are living in a deluded twilight zone currently

Jim_Hodge

lukas8888 wrote: »

My reading of the vast majority of posts since the postponement announcement is at complete odds to you, most particularly regarding the delayed reopening.

Boards doesn't represent the real world. Look at the election polls for a start.

Rob A. Bank

!

https://twitter.com/_FeachNews/status/1283455794839683074

pjohnson

road_high wrote: »

Yes. Nonsensical OTT rubbish. We’ll see in the coming budgets the real consequences. These people are living in a deluded twilight zone currently

So predictable. All because a "friend" didnt wanna go on the pīss. :pac:

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

And you naturally disagree yeah?

Latest decisions are not rational. If we react like this every time there is a new cluster we will be in eternal overreaction. At low cases, 2 cluster like we have seen recently will cause wild swings. We saw in in Germany with the meat factories and that's in a large country, They will cause even wilder swings here and are to be expected. The difference is Germany trusted their track and trace systems, where as we reversed tack at the first sign of a blip

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

So non essential travel still advised against but they are publishing a green list on Monday. Does anyone see a logic in this? https://twitter.com/morningireland/status/1283643972942991360?s=19

No idea, heres a green list but don't go to these places either. If it was the UK coming out with this people would be laughing on here and saying what on earth are they at.

Go to green list countries but don't go.
Go to a green list country, do what you want over there, visit 10 bars a day if you want, don't quarantine on your way back but for the love of god don't go for a pint in a rural village...

CalamariFritti

There isn't even a blip. Not even a sign of it. Just a complete lack of understanding.

Or else and thats the more likely explanation in my opinion - we're back to decision making based on political games. "Ok people are unhappy with foreign travellers coming in but we cant do anything about that because CTA. What could we give them instead?", "Lets ask our testing the waters experts", "People are in favour of masks, ok we can give them that, what else?". "House parties. People dont like house parties (especially the ones they're not invited to)", "OK, lets say something about house parties then". "People are worried about pubs reopening", "Ok, lets delay that", "Good thinking Minister, will make them stop talking about Cowen too", "Excellent plan Sir."

I genuinely believe thats the level we're now at. Back to Yes Minister Father Ted stuff.

stephenjmcd

Said it before I'll say it again. What the fcuk changes in 3 weeks time
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1283664780486680576?s=09

Rob A. Bank

Most of Europe in a good place with some regions reporting no cases, particularly in Finland and Estonia.

But the fly in the ointment is the 'herd immunity' lunacy in Sweden.