Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

stephenjmcd

Assetbacked wrote: »

Very few have the capacity to adhere to the alleged changes you think will happen. I feel your view is not based on actually going about your daily business since the pandemic began and/or working in a particularly sensitive industry to the virus. Wearing masks (other than when interacting with vulnerable people e.g. in hospital settings), keeping distance and queuing for stores are not sustainable beyond another few weeks/couple of months.

Queuing for stores will be gone as soon as the colder wet weather comes. Its difficult to understand how people thing queueing in the lashing rain in the middle of winter will be a thing.

Kermit.de.frog

Assetbacked wrote: »

There is nothing extreme about the measures? Wow. Just wow. Can I ask what your employment situation is, just generally, doesn't need to be specific?

I work in an industry not as vulnerable as some but still has gone through change since this started.

Beyond that is not your concern.

What measures do you believe are extreme?

Renjit

fr336 wrote: »

Just booked myself a few weeks in Texas. Should be good.

Just taking a flight to London via Belfast. Wee bit fun! Meeting family after long time

Assetbacked

Nijmegen wrote: »

Some of the posts about opening up and be damned or the stats achtually say this remind me very much of the early days of this thread series, when people were being called Cassandras for saying the data was pointing to a pretty damaging pandemic coming our way. What's the rush? Let the Germans and Spaniards and Americans etc figure out what happens when you open up. Be in the second wave of opening, rather than the second wave of covid.

This post goes to my point about people still living in the first quarter of uncertainty and forgetting that we want to manage the curves and not flatten it entirely. One strong lockdown with an easing and potential to re-introduce certain restrictions if cases rise again.

In three months we have shown that we have a solution to ensure that the virus gains no traction whatsoever, capacity in hospitals has been bulked up, much better treatments are available for those infected, contact tracing and testing systems are up and running, vaccine trials are being roled out. To compare now to three months ago I think you should pull your head out of your behind.

Away With The Fairies

ACitizenErased wrote: »

A person with symptoms should isolate for 14 days. That's a personal problem, not a testing problem.

A person with symptoms are infectious before showing symptoms. If it's positive, the people the poster was in contact with last weekend are out spreading their germs until they show symptoms. This whole process needs to be done quick. Someone that throws about numbers should know this.

stephenjmcd

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Why do you think that wearing of masks is not sustainable? Most people in eastern Asian countries in particular have worn them as a part of their daily life for years on end and there don`t seem to have been any negative effects.

Really no negative effects ??
This is just from today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/south-korea-incidents-of-covid-19-mask-rage-flareas-summer-heats-up

fr336

Assetbacked wrote: »

There is nothing extreme about the measures? Wow. Just wow. Can I ask what your employment situation is, just generally, doesn't need to be specific?

The lockdown counted as extreme. Face masks and social distancing, not so much. Why the march to go back to everything just as it was before as if it was perfect? Personally I always found it a bit bizarre people crammed into commuter trains like sardines. Wasn't always the case. People think these restrictions are unnatural, I find ever more people coming into places and the infrastructure not being built for them unnatural. I find the rat race and a race to the bottom where everybody is fighting for crumbs while those at the top won't get out of bed for less than a million unnatural.

Cork Boy 53

Assetbacked wrote: »

How about cultural? Is that enough for you? You probably think that people should wear masks every flu season too don't you? this isn't just a covid thing for you.

As a matter of fact I think that people who have flu symptoms should indeed wear masks. Good hygiene practice even if covid -19 had never appeared. I suppose that makes me a "misery merchant" yada yada too yeah?

ACitizenErased

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

A person with symptoms are infectious before showing symptoms. If it's positive, the people the poster was in contact with last weekend are out spreading their germs until they show symptoms. This whole process needs to be done quick. Someone that throws about numbers should know this.

If a person is waiting for a test they need to contact their own contacts themselves. Why would you bother waiting for the HSE?

fr336

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Really no negative effects ??
This is just from today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/south-korea-incidents-of-covid-19-mask-rage-flareas-summer-heats-up

Admit it, the case against face masks is because they just look weird and you don't like feeling left out. I had someone at work try on one of the company provided masks "just for a laugh" - that's some level of insecurity, claiming you're only trying it for a laugh.

Assetbacked

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I work in an industry not as vulnerable as some but still has gone through change since this started.

Beyond that is not your concern.

What measures do you believe are extreme?

How about the extreme measure of the social distancing requirements in shops and pubs which means staff are being offered only a few hours a week and potentially going to lose the €350 covid payment as a result? How about those measures that require someone to quarantine for 14 days if they want to fly to another country for a trip?

fr336

Assetbacked wrote: »

How about the extreme measure of the social distancing requirements in shops and pubs which means staff are being offered only a few hours a week and potentially going to lose the €350 covid payment as a result? How about those measures that require someone to quarantine for 14 days if they want to fly to another country for a trip?

What are your suggestions? Herd immunity? Should we have locked down at all?

Nijmegen

Assetbacked wrote: »

This post goes to my point about people still living in the first quarter of uncertainty and forgetting that we want to manage the curves and not flatten it entirely. One strong lockdown with an easing and potential to re-introduce certain restrictions if cases rise again.

In three months we have shown that we have a solution to ensure that the virus gains no traction whatsoever, capacity in hospitals has been bulked up, much better treatments are available for those infected, contact tracing and testing systems are up and running, vaccine trials are being roled out. To compare now to three months ago I think you should pull your head out of your behind.

I don't think that was my point at all. What I'm saying is that the data today does clearly show us that Covid can swing back at you, hard, and it's worthwhile going that bit slower to see what actually works and does not work for example in social distancing on a beach in Spain, before sending out waves of Irish holidaymakers.

The "Misery Merchants" type rhetoric adds very little to a balanced discussion on the matter.

Assetbacked

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Queuing for stores will be gone as soon as the colder wet weather comes. Its difficult to understand how people thing queueing in the lashing rain in the middle of winter will be a thing.

Well, my main reason to make this claim is that bricks n' mortar stores depend on footfall and if footfall is greatly restricted then their costs cannot be met so they will go bust, employees will lose their jobs too. Insurance, wages, rent, rates etc. all still have to be paid.

fr336

Renjit wrote: »

Just taking a flight to London via Belfast. Wee bit fun! Meeting family after long time

If you're being serious why are you not going via Dublin? If it's that important, pay the extra fare. Don't be a potential spreader north of the border.

lukas8888

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

The poster was being sarcastic.

I have to hand it to you Cork Boy or Bud,no matter how nonsensical some of your posts are, and how often they get demolished by multiple posters, you keep coming back for more.You definitely deserve an award for resilience.

stephenjmcd

fr336 wrote: »

Admit it, the case against face masks is because they just look weird and you don't like feeling left out. I had someone at work try on one of the company provided masks "just for a laugh" - that's some level of insecurity, claiming you're only trying it for a laugh.

what on earth are you on about? This has nothing to do with me wearing a mask. Your reply has nothing to do with the topic.

Poster said in Asian countries there's been no issues with mask wearing its been happening for years, I've just provided an Asian country thats having issues at this moment with mask wearing.

Kermit.de.frog

Assetbacked wrote: »

How about the extreme measure of the social distancing requirements in shops and pubs which means staff are being offered only a few hours a week and potentially going to lose the €350 covid payment as a result? How about those measures that require someone to quarantine for 14 days if they want to fly to another country for a trip?

These are not 'extreme' by any definition and are proportionate to the threat the country faces.

Pubs and cinemas shouldn't even be open as I have said many times.

I have also said the 14 days quarantine should be removed immediately for countries with their outbreaks under control particularly in Europe.

Not doing so is more harm than it's worth.

There is no advice in this country that can be considered extreme.

Mildly irritating is about the worst of it.

fr336

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Queuing for stores will be gone as soon as the colder wet weather comes. Its difficult to understand how people thing queueing in the lashing rain in the middle of winter will be a thing.

I've always assumed the government will end restrictions completely by September. But then someone would say "Well well in September you'll be saying December and then longer..." Up until very recently it seemed there was acceptance that summer holidays would be a write off this year, but then the government lifted restrictions for businesses so there was a clamour for people to come and go as they please again abroad. Maybe they should have stuck with the open things in August plan. Give people an inch they'll take a mile.

Assetbacked

Nijmegen wrote: »

I don't think that was my point at all. What I'm saying is that the data today does clearly show us that Covid can swing back at you, hard, and it's worthwhile going that bit slower to see what actually works and does not work for example in social distancing on a beach in Spain, before sending out waves of Irish holidaymakers.

The "Misery Merchants" type rhetoric adds very little to a balanced discussion on the matter.

It isn't just flicking a switch and suddenly ICUs are at capacity and hospitalisations are up, it would take a few weeks to build up and if it was building up we could take seriously claims that it is swinging back. A rise in cases is meaningless unless it resulted in increased pressure on hospitals. As I see from the Irish data right now we have 12 people in ICU and 21 people in hospital "with" covid.

Renjit

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Queuing for stores will be gone as soon as the colder wet weather comes. Its difficult to understand how people thing queueing in the lashing rain in the middle of winter will be a thing.

I didnt see any queue this time in lidl near my place. Earlier I used to go to lidl in other location because there was always a long queue.

fr336

lukas8888 wrote: »

I have to hand it to you Cork Boy or Bud,no matter how nonsensical some of your posts are, and how often they get demolished by multiple posters, you keep coming back for more.You definitely deserve an award for resilience.

They don't get demolished, they get a load of noise in their ears which basically amounts to "we need to get back to normal, we should have got back to normal in April, and the thousands of people who may be vunerable can stay the hell at home I want my holiday and pint. If they have jobs too bad."

Away With The Fairies

ACitizenErased wrote: »

If a person is waiting for a test they need to contact their own contacts themselves. Why would you bother waiting for the HSE?

If person is waiting for a test, you expect a person to do the contact tracing themselves and tell their employer and everybody they work with to isolate just in case.

This is exactly why we need a quick turnaround in tests, not 8 days.

Renjit

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Really no negative effects ??
This is just from today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/south-korea-incidents-of-covid-19-mask-rage-flareas-summer-heats-up

Apples to oranges, that isn't applicable here. But I need my freedom because I need that sweet sweet air meant for this god gifted machine.

fr336

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Wait till the suspects on here hear we may have a vaccine by September! Doooooooooooom

On one hand you shut down those who want relaxed restrictions in place to stop the potential exponential spread of the virus. On the other you say they want doom and gloom and the virus to go on forever. I would argue those who have never really wanted any restrictions on their exciting lives whatsoever have wanted this to drag on forever. If there's a vaccine in September and no likely serious side effects I'll be at the front of the queue for it before boarding the next flight out.

stephenjmcd

Renjit wrote: »

I didnt see any queue this time in lidl near my place. Earlier I used to go to lidl in other location because there was always a long queue.

Likewise there's quite a large Dunnes near me, posted in the restrictions thread about it last week. Went down once during the initial raft of lockdown and they'd a queueing system set up, 1 way in 1 way out limited numbers etc. Went down last week and you could use any entrance. Asked one of the lads sanitising the trolleys and he said it was gone for the last 2 weeks. Was just like going in pre March but with notices etc on the floor and regular announcements

Assetbacked

fr336 wrote: »

What are your suggestions? Herd immunity? Should we have locked down at all?

I perused your posts on this matter and before we went into lockdown you cried how we would become Italy for not locking down sooner. Turns out you were wrong and OTT with your claim.

I also note that you claimed during the stockpiling frenzy that people were spreading the virus. Again, wrong and OTT.

For me, lockdown worked and, keeping borders closed for a few weeks but flicking a switch to reopen everything is the reward we should be given for enduring the lockdown. If lockdown was a possibility it was mad we waited until so late to do it. But in any event it's done. My issue is with the open borders now; if we have potential to lockdown again then at least give the country a chance to have a few weeks of normal life. Otherwise, it would be terribly unfair to give people a week or two of a taste of normal life, then reopen borders only to lockdown a month later for the people that suffered the 3 month lockdown. Although, this is part of the justification for my conclusion as to why I suspect we won't have another lockdown again or anything close to what our lockdown was like.

ZX7R

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

These are not 'extreme' by any definition and are proportionate to the threat the country faces.

Pubs and cinemas shouldn't even be open as I have said many times.

I have also said the 14 days quarantine should be removed immediately for countries with their outbreaks under control particularly in Europe.

Not doing so is more harm than it's worth.

There is no advice in this country that can be considered extreme.

Mildly irritating is about the worst of it.

I was reading an article on a polish forum my wife follows and it was comparing relaxing of restrictions across Europe and measures introduced for the opening of business sectors it was apparent that measures our health expert's implemented were more in line for a country trying to eradicate rather than live along with the virus.
I agree with you in that our restrictions were not severe but measures been implemented are more severe and restrictive than other countries in the EU

Cork Boy 53

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Really no negative effects ??
This is just from today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/south-korea-incidents-of-covid-19-mask-rage-flareas-summer-heats-up

I quote this from the article you linked to.

Fears of a heatstroke pandemic have prompted firms in neighbouring Japan, where temperatures are expected to soar in July and August, to develop “cool” masks made from hi-tech materials.
The sportswear maker Mizuno is selling masks made from fabrics usually found in its range of swimsuits and athletics apparel, while the material used in Yonex’s Very Cool range includes xylitol, which, it says, allows the mask to dry quickly.

In any case I very much doubt that hot temperatures like those in Korea at present will become an issue in relation to mask wearing here in Ireland not if the current weather outlook is anything to go by. So really your post was a red herring.

Boggles

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You assume everyone that goes on holidays is on the lash and looking for a ride. Seriously you need to cop on to yourself.

No I didn't.

You are assuming that everyone that goes away will be refined and sensible and will sit 2 meters apart palms on table.

They won't, because that isn't reality.