Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Onesea

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I said in my post was reported by media. Any conscious person could figure out this situation is not as serious as made out. Why is the question.

s1ippy

There are 2500 GPS in the country, the fact that one in the capital has 12 people with this issue is worrying, especially when you look at somewhere like France and the testing issues and delays they now have because it's spreading faster than they can contain it.

Boggles

Widdensushi wrote: »

That has to be a gdpr breach, he can't have had many more patients Friday morning so it will be out there that anyone seen at his surgery has covid

You don't get near a surgery if you are suspected of having Covid.

Bubbaclaus

Widdensushi wrote: »

That has to be a gdpr breach, he can't have had many more patients Friday morning so it will be out there that anyone seen at his surgery has covid

None of those patients would be anywhere near the surgery.

petes

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Some posters on this thread have inexplicably gained 'expert' status.

Bizarrely, one poster said they had assumed that a relentless poster was in fact a doctor in their 40s!

The extent of most of the 'data analysts' work on this thread is to subtract one figure published by the HPSC (today's) from another (yesterday's).

That's quite easy.

I don't believe that too many are 'expert's on this thread bar a couple of posters on the testing side who actually work in that field.

However, they still add to the thread. I don't really post on the thread but do read it.

You are far more outraged that someone had other tweets saying differently than the one you posted so you just posted the same one again.

On both sides of the fence be it positive or negative there will be rebuttals.

Someone posts positive news, someone will have the other side and vice versa.

One tweet from one doctor however does not mean that GP surgeries all over the country are inundated with people getting referred for tests.

On the other hand as per the replies to that tweet there seems to be an uptick in people being referred in certain areas.

Given that you'll get a test for any of the symptoms now that's not surprising.

I can't say I'm not concerned as it's in my anxious nature to be that way but I also look at the whole picture.

But some people are either so far on the negative/positive side it's pointless in engaging with them as they can't have a balanced discussion and I hazard to think how they get on in a work environment with such a blinkered view of the world.

is_that_so

s1ippy wrote: »

There are 2500 GPS in the country, the fact that one in the capital has 12 people with this issue is worrying, especially when you look at somewhere like France and the testing issues and delays they now have because it's spreading faster than they can contain it.

These twelve people have a symptom of some kind. It's now back to early March definitions. Remember people are being encouraged to get referred for even a hot flush now. It could be any number of things and 0.3% positivity in tests suggests it probably is something else.

Widdensushi

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

None of those patients would be anywhere near the surgery.

Fair enough, I still think that people will be afraid to enter shops etc in his area now, it is private information, I think it should be given out but it is against gdpr.

Boggles

Widdensushi wrote: »

Fair enough, I still think that people will be afraid to enter shops etc in his area now, it is private information, I think it should be given out but it is against gdpr.

What private information did he give out?

Bubbaclaus

Widdensushi wrote: »

Fair enough, I still think that people will be afraid to enter shops etc in his area now, it is private information, I think it should be given out but it is against gdpr.

What specific section of GDPR is it falling foul of? Or are you just talking out of your hole?

caveat emptor

Taking thing in perspective and comparing per million Australia much better than us. We are far more similar to Spain. You can see the resurgence in Australia in comparison to our initial cases etc.

Data from FT. They've very good charts etc. It's free to browse too. Saying quarantine and suspending tourism etc doesn't work is horse crap.

polesheep

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What specific section of GDPR is it falling foul of? Or are you just talking out of your hole?

That doctor is giving precisely the kind of details that the authorities refuse to give for reasons of privacy when statisticians request them. Hence we have "The Dublin area".

Widdensushi

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What specific section of GDPR is it falling foul of? Or are you just talking out of your hole?

No need to be nasty

Sammy2012

Eddie Wilson on the radio now talking about Ryanair and travel. The rest of Europe is back to normal apparently. We are being left behind.

is_that_so

Fergal Bowers piece on this week.

It has been a difficult and somewhat confusing week for people, trying to understand where Ireland is going with Covid-19.
We have hit a roadblock on the way out of the emergency with the pause in the move to Phase 4 for at least three weeks.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0717/1153955-covid-fergal-bowers-analysis/

road_high

is_that_so wrote: »

12 patients , TWELVE!

I knew when I saw the headline who the GP would be...that gob****e is so far up his own arse. Making a name for himself, Covid 19 hysteria is the perfect launch pad. Come out with any old rubbish and it’s guaranteed click bait

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

Fergal Bowers piece on this week.




https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0717/1153955-covid-fergal-bowers-analysis/

Very good piece. Think it's fair and balanced.

ACitizenErased

is_that_so wrote: »

Fergal Bowers piece on this week.




https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0717/1153955-covid-fergal-bowers-analysis/

Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion

road_high

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

12 patients going for tests and our test positivity rate is stable at 0.3%!
Doom merchants all around

Yes I hope Dr drama Queen will be back with the stats on the positivity rate ASAP

KrustyUCC

is_that_so wrote: »

Fergal Bowers piece on this week.




https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0717/1153955-covid-fergal-bowers-analysis/

Good read in fairness to him

is_that_so

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Good read in fairness to him

Whatever about the daily reporting, his weekly ones are good and well thought-out.

Boggles

I like Fergal, but I gave up reading his musings when he started writing about a bird that hit his window, he thought the bird was dead but it wasn't and that is how covid life is in Ireland or some such.

He was obviously at the sherry.

Onesea

Boggles wrote: »

I like Fergal, but I gave up reading his musings when he started writing about a bird that hit his window, he thought the bird was dead but it wasn't and that is how covid life is in Ireland or some such.

He was obviously at the sherry.

His "musings"

pjohnson

Onesea wrote: »

His "musings"

Is it Bill Gates?

road_high

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Eddie Wilson on the radio now talking about Ryanair and travel. The rest of Europe is back to normal apparently. We are being left behind.

Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do

Onesea

I see Harris himself refused to be tested.

Boggles

road_high wrote: »

Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do

Fúck them.

No private company gets to dictate public health policy during a once in a generation global pandemic.

The whole country can't suffer because Michael wants more profits.

hmmm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion

Much and all as we dismissed Simon & Leo's social media stuff, a lot of people saw it and it was a constant reminder that we needed to keep our vigilance up (even if it was only reading people complaining about the messages).

FF were full of criticisms when they were on the sidelines, and now they are in power the message is confused and lost. Most people don't tune into "official briefings" at particular times, and lots of people never watch RTE. The Minister for Health needs to get out there and start communicating messages where people are listening.

Eod100

Onesea wrote: »

I see Harris himself refused to be tested.

Where did you see that?

Beechwoodspark

road_high wrote: »

Wont be surprised to see Ryanair make massive cuts here especially to HQ roles and not just direct aircraft positions. They don’t tend to hang around and “wait and see” like our government do

Ryanair have been abundantly clear

They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

The ONE THING they do care about is money

Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable

road_high

Boggles wrote: »

Fúck them.

No private company gets to dictate public health policy during a once in a generation global pandemic.

The whole country can't suffer because Michael wants more profits.

Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the state can run all food and utilities as non profit charities

YellowBucket

What’s getting to me is the strategies seem chaotic and as per Fergal Bowers piece, a lot of the measures seem inconsistent and even contradictory.

I know it’s beyond our control but what’s stressing me out is that there’s no end in sight. I’ve been watching a mixture of Irish, UK and French news (I have French free to air tv) and it’s really the same picture from all three - an air of caution about impending second waves and bubbles of outbreaks appearing here and there. Most people are taking it very seriously and a minority aren’t and a lot of people seem very frightened by it.

France is also much more heavily impacted by loss of American tourism. It’s a huge deal in some places and it’s unlikely to return any time soon due to chaotic American politics being unlikely to deal with it.

I’m seeing very similar discussion in French and Irish media, often more alike than what I see in the U.K.

I think we are imagining things are being handled better or differently on the continent. They’re not. It seems very similar and life is still a long way from normal.

The most stressful part for me is just the lack of clarity and lack of any horizon where this will end. I’m feeling like I’m totally trapped. You can’t realistically go anywhere and the economic prospects both here and in any of the places I would consider going, be it for a holiday or to even just move for a while aren’t looking great.

It’s hard to explain but it feels like the rest of Europe and the world in general has suddenly become very remote and inaccessible and that really is getting to me and it’s being made a million times worse by the lack of any realistic plans to bring back safe travel.

In know it may sound a bit nuts but I’ve never, ever felt this trapped and I really feel nervous about how out of sync with the rest of Europe and Schengen the Irish government has gone on travel restrictions and failure to enforce checks on incoming flights from “hot zones”, failure to open travel to the rest of the EU in sync with it.

It just feels like we’ve reverted to island mentality and being at the whim to our what was our 19th century unpredictable, illogical, jingoistic former ruling class in Britain all over again as we can’t risk the CTA and for some reason we’re imagining we will offend Americans (which we won’t) by imposing any kind of testing or restricting of inbound passengers.

Then to top all that off, at work at the moment it’s Brexit, Brexit and more Brexit and unpredictable policies from London and just trying to come up with ways of protecting ourselves (without huge cost) yet no idea how trade is going to work as a bunch of morons in London haven’t any notion of coming up with realistic plans and seem intent on crashing out.

Then Trump throwing tantrums on a daily basis, including ones that deeply impact trade.

Whole thing is nuts. The Cold War was more relaxing! Even the 2008 economic crash wasn’t this bad.

I’ve never felt more fed up in my entire life. Really at the stage I don’t even feel like getting out of bed most of the time. Stuck working from home opening a laptop and it’s like a Pandora’s box of nightmarish problems I can’t figure ways around.

SeaBreezes

road_high wrote: »

Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the star can run all food and utilities as non profit charities

Drama queen :rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

They really won't, if people really had long memories FF wouldn't even exist let alone be a party of government.
When travel opens fully again the same people you are talking about will forget what they said and buy that cheap seat to Malaga.

Drumpot

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Thats actually a really good article, sums up a lot of the confusion

I’ve been saying this since March when Bruce Aylward said that keeping your population informed and working with you is imperative to a society’s success at handling the crisis.

Maybe Bowers has been reading some things posted recently in this thread:

Drumpot wrote: »

I also hope they keep up the communication that was good from FG.

Drumpot wrote: »

The problem as I see it is communication. Why are they doing this and not addressing the foreign travel situation? I don’t think you open pubs just because you aren’t changing your stance on travel but you need to explain your decisions if you want the population to follow.

This isn’t rocket science and it’s one of the few things of the virus we should be able to manage.

Drumpot wrote: »

The problem as I see it is poor communication on the decisions being made. It’s left a vacuum and people are deciding what they think is the case.

Drumpot wrote: »

It’s poor planning for the publicans and as I said poor communication from the authorities. They are treating us like mushrooms and keeping us in the dark. I’m not suggesting a conspiracy, it’s just poorly managed strategy certainly from a communication perspective

Boggles

road_high wrote: »

Yea who needs private industry and wealth generation...let’s all give up and go on the €350 a week thing. Governments can borrow all the free money that was created out of fresh air, keep only public service “essential” roles...the star can run all food and utilities as non profit charities

We do, that's the point.

YellowBucket

Ryanair is Ryanair. They always do agressive open, public lobbying and brinksmanship with airports, regions and governments. Their only concern is bums on seats. Nothing has changed.

My attitude to them hasn’t changed either but it’s never been a company that one tends to have warm and fuzzy feelings about. I didn’t expect anything else from them, so I can’t be disappointed.

It’s reasonable to not take your public health advice on this from airlines in much the same way as you probably shouldn’t take diet and nutritional advice from fast food outlets and the alcohol industry.

road_high

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ryanair have been abundantly clear

They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

The ONE THING they do care about is money

Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable

Why would you expect them to care very much about your health? My health is my own personal responsibility as is anything else I do. The nannying some people expect from everyone else these days is truly breath taking...if you don’t want to travel don’t get on a plane...if you don’t want to risk Covid then just nail yourself indoors forever.

SeaBreezes

YellowBucket wrote: »

What’s getting to me is the strategies seem chaotic and as per Fergal Bowers piece, a lot of the measures seem inconsistent and even contradictory.
It just feels like we’ve reverted to island mentality and being at the whim to our what was our 19th century unpredictable, illogical, jingoistic former ruling class in Britain all over again as we can’t risk the CTA and for some reason we’re imagining we will offend Americans (which we won’t) by imposing any kind of testing or restricting of inbound passengers.

This. Exactly this. Because of Brexit, we are more closely tied to the EU now and should be protecting travel within the EU (green list) while enforcing a pre boarding COVID-19 test per flight (Perhaps a day before boarding at the least in the week before boarding) and temp checks before boarding inbound flights.
The cost of the test to be included in flight price and airline to get test results directly from lab as well as passenger.

Can’t pass the test, can’t board the flight.

This should also apply to ferries.

Don’t STOP flights, but ensure as best we can that anyone travelling into Ireland is healthy.

The UK are unfortunately, the sick man of Europe at the moment. Spain can attest to that. I’m afraid the same tests may have to apply on NI border as well unless they choose the same inbound testing regime.

Draconian? Yes. But not forever, and it would allow tourist industries internally open up with more confidence, and help movement of people if restricted in comparison to the norm.

Every country that had it under control had to start local lockdowns again once schools came back. Honestly I think that will be the biggest test.

All eyes on September and the ICU numbers then.

Beechwoodspark

road_high wrote: »

Why would you expect them to care very much about your health? My health is my own personal responsibility as is anything else I do. The nannying some people expect from everyone else these days is truly breath taking...if you don’t want to travel don’t get on a plane...if you don’t want to risk Covid then just nail yourself indoors forever.

Sorry now but this isn’t just about personal responsibility. That won’t sort this. Don’t you get this? It’s basic

Coming from my circumstances with vulnerable family members and friends, we want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control

Plumbthedepths

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control

Not going to happen, and the best we can hope for is keep numbers low and learn to live with the virus.

Beechwoodspark

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not going to happen, and the best we can hope for is keep numbers low and learn to live with the virus.

They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.

Plumbthedepths

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.

You should make a compliant to the Commission for Aviation regulation with proof of your claims for their disregard for public health measures. Please let us know how you get on.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112643643&postcount=863

This is a post I made on February 25th while watching Dr Bruce Aylward give a savagely powerful analysis of how China were managing it. He said some things he knew “WHO” would not approve as he was just off the plane and exhausted. But how much of this seems familiar to our conversation today about communication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o0q1XMRKYM

Listen to the WHO presser and put aside what hes saying about China.

"Shift in Mindset is required. Shift to a readyness rapid response ready".

He is uptalking China because they have taken huge efforts to stop the virus , manage and are actually planning on things continuing regardless of this virus.

I said it before, this reminds me of the language used when my dad was seriously ill in Hospital. Its preparatory language trying to get people everywhere to start preparing to manage this issue on a larger scale.

In short, when you get past the anger about how much WHO are bigging up China, I hear them say "Get prepared, get your population ready and plan because its most likely coming". "You have to bring your population with you early because things are going to change quickly and you have to have the tools to communicate and adapt as things change". .

These are quotes. In fairness, China has the most experience of every country, thats just a fact. Regardless of whether we believe everything they say, they do have more experience. But they can also take harsher decisions that a democracy may struggle to implement.

I do think that he has used this press conference to basically tell the world community to cop the f**k on and start taking this seriously , communicating/preparing populartions and taking preventitive measures.

Just reading that, I remember how many people I couldn’t discuss this with because most thought it wasn’t coming here.

We need to adapt better, we need to communicate better. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. We need a more clear, transparent framework so people can start planning for the next 12-24 months. We can’t keep this daily plan going, it has to change to long term, including communicating and educating our population. Definitive decisions and the reasons why communicated to people.

Part of the reason people are fed up and/or feeling hopeless is because we appear to be still on a firefighting footing with no obvious plan beyond a few weeks. We need to be also building the infrastructure and the knowledge on how we manage this long term to give peopel hope that regardless of what happens there is a plan and we can as a society (and economical) get through this.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112643974&postcount=922

I think the best course of action is plan for it spreading and how we are going to address food shortages etc, if we arent going to take any meaningful action to prevent the spread.

It looks like there is no way of stopping this, just slowing it down. Thats what I take from WHO's message. So the common sense approach would be to start setting up the infrastructure (including communication) that you are going to set up.

In that WHO conference he was talking about "War" and in time of War you move resources to priority areas. So prepare for the disease and how you plan on getting it under control. Include in that process of making sure that people can self isolate ( and get food/etc) and preferably get back to work or normal life within a few weeks.

Apparantly "The data that we have suggests that there is not this massive Asymptomatic transmission" . . "But remember we have only known this disease for 7 weeks".

Asked why he is not wearing a mask "I dont have Covis19 and I never had any exposure, no contact with patients or contacts, we washed our hands every few seconds, he wore masks when we were there". "We had our meals in our own closed rooms. If we went to the CDC, they had one person at a table and you had to shout at each other." In short they kept 2 metres apart distance . . Very Interesting to listen to. "Because I was going out through Beijing, when I got off the train, I had a swab and it was negative". " It comes back to a science and evidence based approach to what we are doing". "I am not going to put a mask between me and people here if I dont think there is a risk"

"Only 4% of Covid19 cases have a runny nose"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF6AZv8P3i4

In fairness, hes answering all questions, really worth listening to anybody who wants to here some informed information.

I might watch that interview again as it was brilliant. But this is stuff anybody can read or listen to, why can’t our authorities do better and communicate better when they’ve had months to try and think longer term? Implementing things can be hard but communication is something you can manage, even if you can’t do everything you want now.

Back then I was watching informed people give informed information and our authories/government didn’t listen. It feels like it’s sort of happening again. You can have a strategy to reopen while communicating other things. The App and masks are only a start but they need to better communicate even why these are being done.

For all FGs faults, they did a much better job from a communication POV. I thought LVs talks at time’s where great. I thought having Tony as the face of communication was great and don’t feel Leo over did it with the conferences. Thought Harris was equally great when he stepped up to the plate. The trifecta communication worked really well.

I’m sorry but I’ve seen nothing from our new government yet. Could Harris not of maintained his role? Was it that important to change to Donnelly? Why was he changed? Seems like jobs for the boys was the back to norm strategy with FF, no thought of what’s good for the country.

Either way, they better get their act together , they get an F so far.

ACitizenErased

Heard just now that nearly every testing centre in Cork besides one in Ballincollig have been stood down for lack of demand

Santy2015

Yeah I’d believe it. I drove past mallow nearly every day and not a sinner at the racecourse

niallo27

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ryanair have been abundantly clear

They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

The ONE THING they do care about is money

Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable

People won't care, when this is all over they will still fly to alicante or lanzarote by the cheapest means. Why are they so reckless, if people don't want to fly they shouldn't fly.

Drumpot

I will finish up now but just find it fascinating reading back:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112644304&postcount=962

Have china extreme decisions helped stop spread ?

"Folks, time is everything in this disease. You can see the exponential growth. Days make a difference with a disease like this".

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112644366&postcount=971

To what extent should other countries follow chinas approach?

"It was striking how organized and regimented use of TCM treatment. Physicians think the anti inflammatory of it helps. Observational data so not possible to make a judgement. Taking TCM actually helped with alot of the anxiety surrounding the disease" (I Dont understand this)

" It was a re purpose of the machinery of government as a response. What I saw in China, they had a task force, things had to get done. You have to define what part of society is doing what. Everybody in a society has to be involved."

"Can it be replicated elsewhere ? There is a disease spreading, people are concerned about it, there is evidecnce that countries can be masters of how it effects them. China didnt sit down. Other countries have to get ready. China did it , why cant other countries ? (paraphrased last bit)

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112644433&postcount=976

Lots of talk of psychological support for those who were sick and quarantined. This was as important a part of the solution as anything." " That sense of helplessness in a face of virus, science is incredible, we have seen a country take a war footbing in the absence of vaccine but its not going to work if a society is not highly sensitised to it. The average time from onset to when it breaks out is 15 days. You have to cut that right down, in China they have cut it down to 3 days, thats why the cases are dropping fast. They are choking off the virus ability to find susceptitles. Peopel want to know what is this thing. IS there anything we can do about this ? I have a family. The day you think you are ready you are not ready. YOu never feel completely ready. Countries have to prepare their population"

Folks, this is a superb Press conference. He is not from WHO.

If you really want to get some credible first hand information and not be arguing with people you disagree with in here, watch this. He is not speaking for WHO and he is actually going to brief WHO tomorrow.

This feels like a very informed update from somebody who knows what they are talking about. While the Chinese could easily of kept certain things from him, but this is as informed a feedback you are gonna get right now.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112644477&postcount=984

“We have escalating outbreaks in industrialized countries. You have got to try and respond"

"4 big observations about China
- Strategy
- Impact it had
- Next steps
- Collaboration (get ready and buy more time)


"This is not SARS or FLU, dont get stuck thinking one thing or another"

"We are not using the time well"

"These are the things that are going to help. USe the time well. Get ready. Do the right studies."

Final message "GET PREPARED. USE THE TIME WELL"

If most countries had listened to him, things wouldn’t of been so bad.

Now we need to listen to him to make sure we don’t make the same mistakes.

ACitizenErased

Santy2015 wrote: »

Yeah I’d believe it. I drove past mallow nearly every day and not a sinner at the racecourse

Lines up with what people are saying on twitter from a cork perspective

Scuid Mhór

Can't help but feel we are hurtling towards a second wave and when we look back on this a year from now, we will rue the day we were so close to eradicating it only to let all of the dominos fall after one another in sequence. Why are we rushing back to open the economy, why are we letting so many tourists come in, why is everyone so desperate to socialise with one another in large groups? We are so close, we've made so much progress, so many people have suffered and died for us to get to this point and now that we can trump the virus in a couple of weeks or months with concerted effort, it looks like we are just giving up and returning to our default state. How can anyone not despair at how ridiculous this is?