Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Scuid Mhór

Can't help but feel we are hurtling towards a second wave and when we look back on this a year from now, we will rue the day we were so close to eradicating it only to let all of the dominos fall after one another in sequence. Why are we rushing back to open the economy, why are we letting so many tourists come in, why is everyone so desperate to socialise with one another in large groups? We are so close, we've made so much progress, so many people have suffered and died for us to get to this point and now that we can trump the virus in a couple of weeks or months with concerted effort, it looks like we are just giving up and returning to our default state. How can anyone not despair at how ridiculous this is?

ACitizenErased

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Can't help but feel we are hurtling towards a second wave and when we look back on this a year from now, we will rue the day we were so close to eradicating it only to let all of the dominos fall after one another in sequence. Why are we rushing back to open the economy, why are we letting so many tourists come in, why is everyone so desperate to socialise with one another in large groups? We are so close, we've made so much progress, so many people have suffered and died for us to get to this point and now that we can trump the virus in a couple of weeks or months with concerted effort, it looks like we are just giving up and returning to our default state. How can anyone not despair at how ridiculous this is?

How are we hurtling towards a second wave? We live in Europe, eradication isn’t even close to being a possibility.

murphthesmurf

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry now but this isn’t just about personal responsibility. That won’t sort this. Don’t you get this? It’s basic

Coming from my circumstances with vulnerable family members and friends, we want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control

If you have vulnerable family members then they need to be protected appropriately, mean while the rest of us should be allowed to carry on with our lives. It is not the responsibility of everyone else and businesses to do this in my opinion.
Covid is here to stay, it's not going anywhere. We could carry on these measures for another year and then in one year and one day it will start spreading again.
Living our lives in hope that a vaccine might be just around the corner is no good. It's like me not bothering going to work because I might win the lottery.
I find it ironic that to go into a supermarket to buy from their selection of chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, biscuits, processed foods, cakes etc I have to wear a face covering to protect me from Covid when 10,000 people a year die from heart disease and however many from cancer.
Covid is not as bad as we thought it was going to be, but no-one seems to want to admit they were wrong.
In New York 25% of people who were listed as victims of Covid were never tested. Colorado investigated it's figures to find out how many died "with" Covid and how many died "from" Covid. Again the numbers dropped by 25%. The average age of death in US from Covid is older than the average age of death as a whole. I don't know the figures here, but I'd be amazed if they arent at least as far off, probably more so.

wadacrack

ACitizenErased wrote: »

How are we hurtling towards a second wave? We live in Europe, eradication isn’t even close to being a possibility.

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1284425163258421248

bodhrandude

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

None of those patients would be anywhere near the surgery.

Hey dudes have you heard of these things called phones?

Cork29

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Heard just now that nearly every testing centre in Cork besides one in Ballincollig have been stood down for lack of demand

100 percent not true

Icantthinkof1

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Heard just now that nearly every testing centre in Cork besides one in Ballincollig have been stood down for lack of demand

Is the testing centre in Páirc Uí Chaoimh closing or is that staying open along with Ballincollig? Wonder why they’re keeping Ballincollig testing centre open out of all the other areas?

ACitizenErased

Cork29 wrote: »

100 percent not true

I’ve heard it from a direct HSE source, which part of it isnt true?

ACitizenErased

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

Is the testing centre in Páirc Uí Chaoimh closing or is that staying open along with Ballincollig? Wonder why they’re keeping Ballincollig testing centre open out of all the other areas?

Pairc ui chaoimh is closed, ive heard ballincollig mentioned but there may be more in the west or east

YellowBucket

There’s one on the grounds of the Bons Secours hospital on the Western Road side, just behind the Cork Clinic.

Being stood down doesn’t mean shut down and scrapped. I assume the facilities are easily reactivated if demand goes up.

There’s not much point in having nurses standing in portacabins doing nothing, but we may well need to be able to ramp back up again at short notice.

schmoo2k

s1ippy wrote: »

There are 2500 GPS in the country, the fact that one in the capital has 12 people with this issue is worrying, especially when you look at somewhere like France and the testing issues and delays they now have because it's spreading faster than they can contain it.

This is just not true.

schmoo2k

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ve heard it from a direct HSE source, which part of it isnt true?

The one on western road was open last time I walked by it. Its been quiet for sure, but open.

Strumms

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ryanair have been abundantly clear

They DO NOT CARE about your health or public health.

The ONE THING they do care about is money

Speaking to people lately they say they have long memories and will not forget Ryanair’s complete and utter recklessness

haughty hectoring bullying - a “we know best don’t answer back” attitude

I’d go so far as to say they’ve been despicable

I’m done flying them and so is my family and most friends... I won’t have any second thoughts about giving my cash to the opposition...now, might cost me a bit extra from time to time but happy in the knowledge I’m not enabling a total **** whom is happy to put the health, welfare of his airline first and the health, wealth and wellbeing of the state and its people second...

The same opinion is shared by everyone I’ve spoken to. My parents travel a few times a year and while never have been Ryanair fans, (being elderly the ultra long walks to the gates and out on the tarmac can take it out of them) if the price difference is very significant they’d have given them the business though ie. trip this year before lockdown reasonably short notice and couldn’t justify the Aer Lingus prices... now they are “nope, Aer Lingus all the way”... I’m in this camp too... Ryanair can swing for it...

B.A._Baracus

Was looking at a video about Hong Kong and its third wave. They reported 170+ cases over a 6/7 day period in early July. Surely we are near that too with the likes of 34 cases the other day?

ACitizenErased

That doctor fella on twitter is being debunked by other GPs.

https://twitter.com/gpbuddy/status/1284447972495888386?s=21

https://twitter.com/gpbuddy/status/1284448439661735941?s=21

https://twitter.com/drmarkmurphy/status/1284448415708073985?s=21

Cork29

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ve heard it from a direct HSE source, which part of it isnt true?

Glanmire was hopping yesterday

Bubbaclaus

bodhrandude wrote: »

Hey dudes have you heard of these things called phones?

Is this directed at me? I think you have misunderstood, because that is the point I was making.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That doctor fella on twitter is being debunked by other GPs.

https://twitter.com/gpbuddy/status/1284447972495888386?s=21

https://twitter.com/drmarkmurphy/status/1284448415708073985?s=21

Comparison is not the correct one. How are we doing now vs late Feburary and how likely is end of August likely to turn into a late March if we don't do additional mitigation.

For all the reactionary d**ks out there, I've not said how likely I think it will be, I don't know.

Drumpot

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Was looking at a video about Hong Kong and its third wave. They reported 170+ cases over a 6/7 day period in early July. Surely we are near that too with the likes of 34 cases the other day?

Without context to why they are suffering a surge , what happened in Hong Kong won’t necessarily suffer the same fate.

In terms of the phrase “wave” it Seems like there is going To be waves on our infection data as infections go up and down.

I think most people imagine a second wave as a huge surge in numbers that will crash over all of us. I prefer “significant surge” as it seems like you can really only call something a wave of significance after the event or when it’s reached a significant point comparable with your first encounter/surge.

NegativeCreep

I don’t understand everyone hating Ryanair for continuing flights? We’re legally allowed fly and go anywhere we want on holidays. Why would Ryanair turn down that money? If you don’t want to fly that’s grand but other people do and that’s their business too.

bodhrandude

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Is this directed at me? I think you have misunderstood, because that is the point I was making.

Maybe I did misunderstand, but folks don't go to the gp if they suspect they have c19 they tell the app or phone the gp who refers them to the testers, so perhaps it was directed to the first poster you were replying to, apologies.

Drumpot

murphthesmurf wrote: »

If you have vulnerable family members then they need to be protected appropriately, mean while the rest of us should be allowed to carry on with our lives. It is not the responsibility of everyone else and businesses to do this in my opinion.
Covid is here to stay, it's not going anywhere. We could carry on these measures for another year and then in one year and one day it will start spreading again.
Living our lives in hope that a vaccine might be just around the corner is no good. It's like me not bothering going to work because I might win the lottery.
I find it ironic that to go into a supermarket to buy from their selection of chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, biscuits, processed foods, cakes etc I have to wear a face covering to protect me from Covid when 10,000 people a year die from heart disease and however many from cancer.
Covid is not as bad as we thought it was going to be, but no-one seems to want to admit they were wrong.
In New York 25% of people who were listed as victims of Covid were never tested. Colorado investigated it's figures to find out how many died "with" Covid and how many died "from" Covid. Again the numbers dropped by 25%. The average age of death in US from Covid is older than the average age of death as a whole. I don't know the figures here, but I'd be amazed if they arent at least as far off, probably more so.

Couple of issues with this post.

There is nothing definitive on the lethality of COVID or the long term issues that come with it. Different countries appear to be getting different results , including how many people who died of COVID and separating out those who died with COVID but not because of it.

It’s worse because most people do not have any immunity from it so more people will get sick in a short period of time. Until there is significant heard immunity (if there ever is) and we have more definite information, it’s prudent to treat this more aggressively and with more caution.

That’s a terrible example in terms of supermarket. If you get heart disease or cancer because what you eat, you don’t pass it onto other people. If you get COvId because you won’t wear a mask you do pass it on.

It’s remarkable how averse people are to mask wearing purely a cultural inconvenience issue.

Renjit

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That doctor fella on twitter is being debunked by other GPs.

https://twitter.com/gpbuddy/status/1284447972495888386?s=21

https://twitter.com/gpbuddy/status/1284448439661735941?s=21

https://twitter.com/drmarkmurphy/status/1284448415708073985?s=21

⬆️

road_high

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry now but this isn’t just about personal responsibility. That won’t sort this. Don’t you get this? It’s basic

Coming from my circumstances with vulnerable family members and friends, we want Ryanair to cease operations until this is under control

No you don’t get it. If you’re that bothered about vulnerable family then you stay away from them or you completely isolate yourself alongside them. If you’re that worried about them you’d be doing that anyway. Like I say people don’t get personal responsibility Or indeed want to - it’s not up to others to do it for you

ACitizenErased

The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

Wild Field 1831

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

How convenient for Boris and co.

fritzelly

Wild Field 1831 wrote: »

How convenient for Boris and co.

In fairness we are doing the same

Drumpot

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

I’d love to see England’s death average in March to July most years to now. I think Scotland have been more pro active and expanding the numbers to the Uk suits the government.

Edit: Guardian did an extensive review of deaths back in May and even said comparing deaths in certain periods helps give a clearer indication. Why can’t they do that now? Always dubious of headlines like this , they can do the exact same thing now so what gives?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/may/29/excess-deaths-uk-has-one-highest-levels-europe

JP Liz V1

Onesea wrote: »

I see Harris himself refused to be tested.

Simon?

The Chinese wouldn't get away with that.

JP Liz V1

is_that_so wrote: »

That doctor is something of a self-publicist and dare I say a Covigilante.

Covidgilante is a new one for me

YellowBucket

Drumpot wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112643643&postcount=863

This is a post I made on February 25th while watching Dr Bruce Aylward give a savagely powerful analysis of how China were managing it. He said some things he knew “WHO” would not approve as he was just off the plane and exhausted. But how much of this seems familiar to our conversation today about communication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o0q1XMRKYM

Just reading that, I remember how many people I couldn’t discuss this with because most thought it wasn’t coming here.

We need to adapt better, we need to communicate better. We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. We need a more clear, transparent framework so people can start planning for the next 12-24 months. We can’t keep this daily plan going, it has to change to long term, including communicating and educating our population. Definitive decisions and the reasons why communicated to people.

Part of the reason people are fed up and/or feeling hopeless is because we appear to be still on a firefighting footing with no obvious plan beyond a few weeks. We need to be also building the infrastructure and the knowledge on how we manage this long term to give peopel hope that regardless of what happens there is a plan and we can as a society (and economical) get through this.

I don’t think anywhere is accepting that this is probably a medium term problem. We are stuck with it until there’s a vaccine or at least more effective ways of treating it properly, yet we aren’t putting infrastructure in place.

I mean take flying. Why isn’t the industry adapted yet? I don’t just mean Ireland either. There’s been no efforts on say a harmonised travel passport that would enable testing and safe flying.

Having a bunch of loons and conspiracy theorists running the US isn’t much help, but there’s no reason the EU couldn’t take a more proactive role in this, coordinate with like minded, pragmatic places and come up with a safe, system that anyone could implement.

I think the penny still hasn’t dropped that this is likely going to be a problem for a number of years and we are pining unrealistic hopes on a rapid solution which may not be arriving or rolled out nearly as quickly as we hope.

The chaos, lack of a plan and disruption is bad for economics, it’s bad for mental health and it’s also going to have huge political consequences in a lot of countries as it could easily fuel public anger at some stage. I don’t think that’s likely the case in Ireland, largely due to being small scale and having an extremely proportional democracy, but it’s very likely in plenty of places as blame starts to be attributed to governments.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The brits think they’ve massively exaggerated their death toll

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1284471357569478657?s=21

It doesn’t really say that though. It says they need to validate the data as some deaths long after they had the virus were counted as COVID deaths. Nowhere does it say this is a massive number. It is also likely some of those died as a consequence of the damage caused by the virus even though it was gone.

Standard reporting rules for deaths following a medical intervention require those to be associated with the intervention until investigation shows otherwise. Colleagues of mine who work in complaints in a medical device manufacturers have investigated products used in minor heart procedures where the patient subsequently died in a car accident. As the patients in England were probably admitted with COVID, it is likely these rules that required COVID to be associated with the deaths. It is unlikely to be a very high number however

thelad95

Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.

YellowBucket

It seems more like a certain element in English politics and commentary is clutching at straws to prove that it wasn’t as bad as it really was. The excess death toll in England was too high (and that’s not looking at specific causes, but just the number of people who died relative to a base line) and that points probably to a lot of issues that don’t suit some people to look at as they point as poor social infrastructure, overcrowded housing, low standards of living and so on, particularly in London and some other English cities.

Basically the places with better housing, more equitable lifestyles and so on have done better.

English politics and tabloids also didn’t take it seriously in the early stages. Johnson was literally mocking people who did and playing it down until he ended up in ICU!

You see that repeated in Ireland too. I would suspect Dublin’s case load is probably a lot to do with the lack of adequate housing - eg I know personally plenty of nurses & hospital workers who live in lousy house shares and it would be impossible to control spread.

The US is also in a meltdown because of lack of social cohesion, poor social services, hollowed out public health and insane politics. COVID is just highlighting all of its weak points and it’s a disease that requires a strong social and community response to suppress, which the contemporary US isn’t capable of.

LiquidZeb

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They really won't, if people really had long memories FF wouldn't even exist let alone be a party of government.
When travel opens fully again the same people you are talking about will forget what they said and buy that cheap seat to Malaga.

One thing I've learned from this whole thing is that boardsies really hate Ryanair, publicans, horse racing fans and Americans.

LiquidZeb

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

They’ve proven themselves absolutely oblivious to even basic public health concerns. Their aviation license should be postponed until some sense of normality is resumed.

Let's shut down every company you don't like then. Jesus some lads here are serious control freaks.

LiquidZeb

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Simon?

Rolf.

SeaBreezes

murphthesmurf wrote: »

If you have vulnerable family members then they need to be protected appropriately, mean while the rest of us should be allowed to carry on with our lives. It is not the responsibility of everyone else and businesses to do this in my opinion.
Covid is here to stay, it's not going anywhere. We could carry on these measures for another year and then in one year and one day it will start spreading again.
Living our lives in hope that a vaccine might be just around the corner is no good. It's like me not bothering going to work because I might win the lottery.
I find it ironic that to go into a supermarket to buy from their selection of chocolate, crisps, fizzy drinks, biscuits, processed foods, cakes etc I have to wear a face covering to protect me from Covid when 10,000 people a year die from heart disease and however many from cancer.
Covid is not as bad as we thought it was going to be, but no-one seems to want to admit they were wrong.
In New York 25% of people who were listed as victims of Covid were never tested. Colorado investigated it's figures to find out how many died "with" Covid and how many died "from" Covid. Again the numbers dropped by 25%. The average age of death in US from Covid is older than the average age of death as a whole. I don't know the figures here, but I'd be amazed if they arent at least as far off, probably more so.

1) if you have vulnerable family members, like parents, grandparents? The rest of us.. who are they?

2) The mask is NOT to protect you, its to protect others FROM you.

3) google excess deaths. Now tell me why all.these.people are magically dying. You know it took 5 months before they figured out it causes blood clots and strokes and heart attacks, right? None of those deaths even tested for covid19 cause we didnt know. Excess deaths is the only true picture we have and looking at that covid deaths are under counted.
And we havent even started to begin to understand longhaulcovid19 and its long term repercussions

The italians are clear, even for the young and mild cases there can be long term health implications.
Better not to get it.
But id be hoping this bug will evolve into something milder

is_that_so

LiquidZeb wrote: »

One thing I've learned from this whole thing is that boardsies really hate Ryanair, publicans, horse racing fans and Americans.

Young people and Bulgarians fruit pickers too!

is_that_so

thelad95 wrote: »

Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.

Unless you're planning some violent action against them let them be and stop counting. Remember the mask suggests that you could be diseased yourself!

tom1ie

thelad95 wrote: »

Went down to local SuperValu (Lucan) and noted a significant increase in mask usage including nearly all staff except one lady at the checkout (to be expected as she could have an underlying medical condition, masks are not suitable for everyone).

As expected, lowest uptake seemed to be younger people.

However, some free information brochures should be distributed by the HSE outlining how to correctly fit them. I noted some stupid practices such as not covering the nose, removing to talk to people (this is when it's needed most!!!) and clearly incorrectly/improperly fitted masks which are counterproductive.

To counter that I was in Crumlin village earlier and went into a Tesco Which was quite busy yet I was the only one wearing a mask, walked past a pub that doesn’t serve food that was packed with no SD went to another shop where one other person was wearing a mask, not as busy as Tesco but quite a few walking around in the shop.

is_that_so

tom1ie wrote: »

To counter that I was in Crumlin village earlier and went into a Tesco Which was quite busy yet I was the only one wearing a mask, walked past a pub that doesn’t serve food that was packed with no SD went to another shop where one other person was wearing a mask, not as busy as Tesco but quite a few walking around in the shop.

Yeah, it's all anecdotal and stories will vary. Technically it is not in force yet as there are no regulations underpinning it. The introduction of the measure is IMO to add a very small extra level to what's already in place. It'll be tough to enforce as many do not view most retail areas, especially supermarkets as a risk. Social media will be in full shaming mode though.

tom1ie

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, it's all anecdotal and stories will vary. Technically it is not in force yet as there are no regulations underpinning it. The introduction of the measure is IMO to add a very small extra level to what's already in place. It'll be tough to enforce as many do not view most retail are, especially supermarkets as a risk. Social media will be full shaming mode though.

Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

ACitizenErased

tom1ie wrote: »

Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

I was in Douglas Court in Cork today and I was genuinely shocked at how many people were wearing masks. I’d say well over 90%. I find that the people who aren’t wearing masks tend to be older. There were guards walking around too as I believe there was a security incident earlier and they were wearing masks.

Boggles

tom1ie wrote: »

Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

People in general are law abiding and will observe any laws there is, especially on the grounds of public health during a once in a generation global pandemic .

The vast majority of people will start wearing masks, like they have in most other countries in the world, the people not wearing masks will dwindle. Fast forward a couple of months and the notion of not wearing masks will seem completely alien.

As for the guards not getting involved, of course they will as they have done on transport.

It's their job to enforce the law, if some Dickhead is giving the "Mey Fraydumbs" bollíx and causing hassle he will be dealt with.

tom1ie

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I was in Douglas Court in Cork today and I was genuinely shocked at how many people were wearing masks. I’d say well over 90%. I find that the people who aren’t wearing masks tend to be older. There were guards walking around too as I believe there was a security incident earlier and they were wearing masks.

That’s good to hear.
I was a bit dismayed when I seen the setup in Crumlin village considering it’s a much older profile area.
Especially with the boozer packed and no SD.

is_that_so

tom1ie wrote: »

Unless staff stop people from entering unless they wear a mask, when it does become mandatory, I don’t see how wearing masks in shops will become commonplace.
Guards certainly won’t be getting involved as far as I can see anyway.

It's all about better compliance. I can't see too many businesses wanting to engage even if they have a very strong position on it. The trading consequences are another consideration. We still don't know what the penalties will be but even just one case or one hard-headed response could hit social media and it's defence mode for Donnelly.

Boggles

is_that_so wrote: »

It's all about better compliance. I can't see too many businesses wanting to engage even if they have a very strong position on it. The trading consequences are another consideration. We still don't know what the penalties will be but even just one case or one hard-headed response could hit social media and it's defence mode for Donnelly.

Shops are not some sort of timid entity not afraid to protect their business.

They protect their businesses daily from all sorts.

People are severely underestimating a shops ability to self police.

Strumms

Thing is... to MOL, if somebody said... “hey, I can write you a check for 20 million TODAY, but you will be signing the death warrant of 50 people in order to accept and cash now... OR you will be in receipt of the exact same cheque in 7 months time and nobody dies”

What does he do ? I think I know.