Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

timsey tiger

is_that_so wrote: »

Nope, they just do things and have opinions you don't like. Remember wearing a mask also suggests that you are infected and someone could rightly wonder why you're out infecting people!

LOL, just like not wearing one suggests you have been contacted by the tracing app. but don't want to get tested because you are a bit of a b***h and can't handle a bit of discomfort.

timsey tiger

is_that_so wrote: »

Any country claiming to beat the virus did not beat it. They opened schools too early.

Yea it was those pesky kids that did it.:rolleyes:

schmoo2k

is_that_so wrote: »

What, that the government doesn't have a plan, even a tentative one?


The Premier of NSW was able to articulate their plan clearly. Unpleasant but now known.

“We’re going to be wearing masks in Victoria and potentially in other parts of the country for a very long time,” Andrews said.

I am pretty sure we have a fairly clear plan - when doing better than expected, they moved some dates forward. Now they don't like some numbers, so they reverted some dates back to the original ones. Can a plan be fluid? yes.

timsey tiger

is_that_so wrote: »

And this is why you can't understand them! You've established a clear immovable position on them and can't understand how others could think differently. That's why there is tension over them.

But, the position isn't immovable at all. Most reasonable people just listen to the learned people whos' life work is protecting us from disease.

When they said mask wearing may not help they didn't wear them. When more info. became available and the experts said mask wearing would help, then they donned the masks.

I'm not sure what the thought processes of the reasonable people who won't (not can't) wear masks is.

ACitizenErased

Are people really debating against masks?
Lads, seriously....
I’m highly asthmatic and wear a mask every day with no issue.

Strumms

schmoo2k wrote: »

I am pretty sure we have a fairly clear plan - when doing better than expected, they moved some dates forward. Now they don't like some numbers, so they reverted some dates back to the original ones. Can a plan be fluid? yes.

It shouldn’t have been fluid. We were doing better than expected, so the same roadmap should have been continuously followed so we could do even better again and use the value in that to our benefit. Stick with the winning formula.

No point in taking two big strides forward then three back again. As long as the tills are ringing though right...fûckwits.

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

Bit hypocritical really leaving brit and yanks swan in all over country spreading disease and not enforcing quarantine though

Letting the bits in, is understandable, but lask of proper testing quarantine is a just stupid.

Seeing almost everybody else in Europe has banned the Americans, I think we could have gotten away with some sort of essential travel only with test and quarantine requirements.

Our legal profession has to be the most dysfunctional aspect of our society. All we ever hear is we can't do what is needed to protect us for legal reasons.

Laws should facilitate us not hender us.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bit hypocritical really leaving brit and yanks swan in all over country spreading disease and not enforcing quarantine though

You can’t not let the Brits in. Brits have automatic Irish residency entitlement, as the Irish do in the UK. The USA is different, and I don’t think non resident Americans should be allowed in at all. And, in any case, from an infection perspective, the UK is not the USA

As for quarantine, there is none. There is just a ‘restriction of movement’ requirement that permits exercise and shopping. Before anything can be enforced, there needs to be a quarantine requirement laid out

Strumms

It’s a pity we didn’t have a Democrat say a Bill Clinton in office. At least he was an ally, a common sense guy, a reasonable guy. Trump is just a guy absolutely fascinated like none ever before him in that office with business people, money people, facilitating bank balances... not a good mix with what’s going on.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Are people really debating against masks?
Lads, seriously....
I’m highly asthmatic and wear a mask every day with no issue.

I don't think it is actually people with respiratory issues that are the issue. I saw a woman sitting in a doctors waiting room with a mask on and she was pulling it away from her face periodically. It seemed to be causing her some distress. I would understand if she didn't wear it, but I appreciated her effort.

However there are reasonable people who have decided to not wear masks for "reasons" I don't understand.

Strumms

How can a mask though, cause ‘distress’, while they are not all that comfortable when I put mine on, I never give it any second thought....

Santy2015

I wasn’t really in favour at the start as I taught it was too late but have to due to work and will wear it outside of work now as I’ve got used to it. Try wearing a mask for over 8 hours a day, every day and getting on with it. I want to be able to go for my few pints in a few weeks.
Wear a mask!!

timsey tiger

Strumms wrote: »

How can a mask though, cause ‘distress’, while they are not all that comfortable when I put mine on, I never give it any second thought....

Well, isn't that great for you. Not everybody has the same level of lung function though.

Hego Damask

At what stage is the cure worse then the disease tho ?
How many people will be homeless, starving, serious mental health issues, suicide rates will skyrocket...

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives.
No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.

People loving the idea of living in fear in our basements for decades - you really think this is sustainable ?

Leftwaffe

I wear a mask no problem but found them uncomfortable and felt like I was short of air a few times. To the point where I had to go outside to take it off for a few minutes. And I'm in my mid twenties.

Bit cynical

bb1234567 wrote: »

Brazil deaths finally may be declining. Today was the first weekday(because of a 24 hour lag in reporting, Saturday is a 'weekday' and MOnday is not) which has not reported over 1000 deaths in about 7 weeks!

I think too early to say that. They seem to be in a flat period which is an unusual pattern for the virus and suggests that they are at the limit of their testing and reporting capacity for deaths.

timsey tiger

Hego Damask wrote: »

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

So if Spain and Italy hadn't bothered with lockdowns, they would have had fewer deaths then?

That's like Jackie Healy Rea congratulating Kerry for its low levels of covid, suggesting that they had done a better job than Dublin.

Igotadose

KathleenGrant wrote: »

Numerous friends of mine insisting they won't because they see is as government trying to control us.

3 of them have underlying issues and still believe that.

Beyond abject stupidity, what issues have they got that interfere with wearing masks? Every precious snowflake has an issue these days. Harden up ffs

timsey tiger

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think too early to say that. They seem to be in a flat period which is an unusual pattern for the virus and suggests that they are at the limit of their testing and reporting capacity for deaths.

It's a large country too, so could have a USA type situation going on where they are getting a handle on it in one region. Hopefully though things are getting under control.

Strumms

Hego Damask wrote: »

At what stage is the cure worse then the disease tho ?
How many people will be homeless, starving, serious mental health issues, suicide rates will skyrocket...

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives.
No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.

People loving the idea of living in fear in our basements for decades - you really think this is sustainable ?

Swedish people people have a completely different social as well as psychological tendencies to the Irish... because something is working out in Sweden, doesn’t mean it transfers well here..

Another one playing the ‘mental health card’ as a hall pass I see, that got fûcking old about 6 weeks ago. We will see where mental health is at when again this thing spikes, people getting very sick / dying en masse.

Would you like to elaborate on your point, and what qualifications you have earned to be able to definitively tell us ..”It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives. No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.”

Well ?

Strumms

timsey tiger wrote: »

Well, isn't that great for you. Not everybody has the same level of lung function though.

Masks don’t prevent you from breathing properly.

If you get covid , that WILL.

Hego Damask

timsey tiger wrote: »

So if Spain and Italy hadn't bothered with lockdowns, they would have had fewer deaths then?

That's like Jackie Healy Rea congratulating Kerry for its low levels of covid, suggesting that they had done a better job than Dublin.

The problem with Spain and Italy - at least Spain I can speak for Spain since I live there - is society norms and how people are very touchy feely and kissy kissy with greetings.

Most of these new outbreaks are due to family gatherings and nightlife - packed bar terraces ... Swedish people were responsible - but at least businesses could go on, now we are at a situation where second lockdown is imminent in Spain, which will completely kill off the economy.

Sweden may have been short term bad, but long term we will see they will have dealt with this very well.


As for the initial deaths in Spain and Italy, they would happen anyway, it's just a matter of when, they have shown that they cannot control this virus.

We know it's longterm, Japan are cancelling the Olympics - for 2021 ... so they know it won't be gone by then.

bb1234567

Hego Damask wrote: »

At what stage is the cure worse then the disease tho ?
How many people will be homeless, starving, serious mental health issues, suicide rates will skyrocket...

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives.
No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.

People loving the idea of living in fear in our basements for decades - you really think this is sustainable ?

It's not, Sweden has almost identical number of deaths per capita as Italy and just behind Spain.But regardless, I agree with your points generally.

gabeeg

bb1234567 wrote: »

It's not, Sweden has almost identical number of deaths per capita as Italy and just behind Spain.But regardless, I agree with your points generally.

Not even Sweden's state epidemiologist agrees with you guys.

is_that_so

Drumpot wrote: »

He explains in the video exactly why VIT D will help.

It’s quite technical but I’d love to hear your rebuttal to his points.

Well it's not going to help with any of the underlying conditions, age, gender, blood group, genetics, race in some cases or the cytokine storm. It's still a good thing to address the Vitamin D deficit but no real evidence you won't become infected. It should be talked up but as a habit for our everyday lives.

Bit cynical

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think too early to say that. They seem to be in a flat period which is an unusual pattern for the virus and suggests that they are at the limit of their testing and reporting capacity for deaths.

It’s an unusual pattern if you treat it as a single outbreak. However Brazil is a huge country with lots of geographic, demographic, political and climatic variation, so the reality is you likely have decline in some area, suppression in others, surge in others and even new outbreaks in more areas. In that scenario you would expect a levelling for a time as the different conditions in different areas balance each other for a time.

caveat emptor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/michaellondra/status/1284594786062733315?s=19

Guy who hosts travel Tv show posts photo of empty plane (while probably waiting for everyone to get off) to prove his point. Bad timing with the career move.

Shocking stuff.

SeaBreezes

Hego Damask wrote: »

The problem with Spain and Italy - at least Spain I can speak for Spain since I live there - is society norms and how people are very touchy feely and kissy kissy with greetings.

Most of these new outbreaks are due to family gatherings and nightlife - packed bar terraces ... Swedish people were responsible - but at least businesses could go on, now we are at a situation where second lockdown is imminent in Spain, which will completely kill off the economy.

Sweden may have been short term bad, but long term we will see they will have dealt with this very well.


As for the initial deaths in Spain and Italy, they would happen anyway, it's just a matter of when, they have shown that they cannot control this virus.

We know it's longterm, Japan are cancelling the Olympics - for 2021 ... so they know it won't be gone by then.

Swedish death numbers only started dropping when scools closed and long summer hols started for business, kind of like a lockdown?

If herd immunity is possible we will see when Swedish schools go back.

schmoo2k

Strumms wrote: »

It shouldn’t have been fluid. We were doing better than expected, so the same roadmap should have been continuously followed so we could do even better again and use the value in that to our benefit. Stick with the winning formula.

No point in taking two big strides forward then three back again. As long as the tills are ringing though right...fûckwits.

It has to be fluid - we need to be in a position to re-lockdown (locally, regionally, nationally) as needed, quickly.

Strazdas

Strumms wrote: »

How can a mask though, cause ‘distress’, while they are not all that comfortable when I put mine on, I never give it any second thought....

Some people are very claustrophobic and hate the feeling of anything covering their mouth. Their distress is real.

schmoo2k

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Are people really debating against masks?
Lads, seriously....
I’m highly asthmatic and wear a mask every day with no issue.

A small minority mainly.

schmoo2k

Santy2015 wrote: »

I wasn’t really in favour at the start as I taught it was too late but have to due to work and will wear it outside of work now as I’ve got used to it. Try wearing a mask for over 8 hours a day, every day and getting on with it. I want to be able to go for my few pints in a few weeks.
Wear a mask!!

Sums it up (and swap school / foreign holidays / visiting old folks homes - for the pints)

jackboy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Are people really debating against masks?
Lads, seriously....
I’m highly asthmatic and wear a mask every day with no issue.

The government, Tony holohan, most Irish scientists and the media consistently said masks are ineffective and actually dangerous to wear. So, it’s hardly surprising some people are confused.

Bit cynical

timsey tiger wrote: »

It's a large country too, so could have a USA type situation going on where they are getting a handle on it in one region. Hopefully though things are getting under control.

Bolsonaro has been criticised for not having a strict lockdown like developed countries but that's not really possible for most of the world. Only in rich countries do people get to sit at home and watch Netflix on full salary or government payment.

Gael23

We are entrusting the man who presided over this scandal to lead us through Covid 19
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0719/1154244-ruth-morrissey/

ACitizenErased

Gael23 wrote: »

We are entrusting the man who presided over this scandal to lead us through Covid 19
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0719/1154244-ruth-morrissey/

Ronan Glynn is the CMO...

schmoo2k

jackboy wrote: »

The government, Tony holohan, most Irish scientists and the media consistently said masks are ineffective and actually dangerous to wear. So, it’s hardly surprising some people are confused.

Partially correct (just)

jackboy

schmoo2k wrote: »

Partially correct (just)

Which part is wrong?

Gael23

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Ronan Glynn is the CMO...

Deputising for Holohan while he is on Leave

Santy2015

schmoo2k wrote: »

Sums it up (and swap school / foreign holidays / visiting old folks homes - for the pints)

. Was making a general point.
I want all those things that you listed as well.

schmoo2k

jackboy wrote: »

Which part is wrong?

Really? - just the part about them being "dangerous to wear" - for the record masks are not dangerous to wear (yes there are exceptions - but well outside the bell curve).

ACitizenErased

Gael23 wrote: »

Deputising for Holohan while he is on Leave

Hes the CMO, he makes the decisions not Holohan

is_that_so

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1284836116819070977

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1284848058082242560?s=21

PowerToWait

Hego Damask wrote: »

At what stage is the cure worse then the disease tho ?
How many people will be homeless, starving, serious mental health issues, suicide rates will skyrocket...

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives.
No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.

People loving the idea of living in fear in our basements for decades - you really think this is sustainable ?

You just need to look to the US to see how your strategy is working out.

However, as far as I can see, life is pretty much as normal here, bar the pubs and nightclubs.

jackboy

schmoo2k wrote: »

Really? - just the part about them being "dangerous to wear" - for the record masks are not dangerous to wear (yes there are exceptions - but well outside the bell curve).

We were relentlessly told that wearing masks was actually worse than not wearing them as we are not trained on their use and would keep touching our faces readjusting them. We were also told that masks would give a false sense of security leading to other measures not being followed.

Anyone that went against this consensus was aggressively disputed on the media by Irish scientists, Holohan and the government.

fritzelly

PowerToWait wrote: »

You just need to look to the US to see how your strategy is working out.
https://twitter.com/newschambers/sta...082242560?s=21

However, as far as I can see, life is pretty much as normal here, bar the pubs and nightclubs.

Reading that tweet made me wonder why McDonald's wanted quarantine...

manofwisdom

Hego Damask wrote: »

At what stage is the cure worse then the disease tho ?
How many people will be homeless, starving, serious mental health issues, suicide rates will skyrocket...

Sweden seem to have had the right idea, overall they are on a gradual decrease, and their death rate is way way less then the likes of Spain and Italy that had very strict lockdowns.

It's time to learn to live with this and get on with our lives.
No vaccine is coming, no cure is coming, it's here and that's it.

People loving the idea of living in fear in our basements for decades - you really think this is sustainable ?

Sweden are close to 6,000 deaths and taking into account they only ramped up their testing recently i'd wonder how many died in March,April,May from the virus without ever getting tested? To judge if Sweden had the right idea you compare them to their nearest neighbours and Denmark,Norway combined have 866 deaths.

Danzy

manofwisdom wrote: »

Sweden are close to 6,000 deaths and taking into account they only ramped up their testing recently i'd wonder how many died in March,April,May from the virus without ever getting tested? To judge if Sweden had the right idea you compare them to their nearest neighbours and Denmark,Norway combined have 866 deaths.

We won't know if Sweden had the right approach till next year.

Antibody testing etc suggests that they have a widespread immunity in their cities. So they should avoid a 2nd wave.

No one knows the correct approach yet.

Lundstram

Danzy wrote: »

We won't know if Sweden had the right approach till next year.

Antibody testing etc suggests that they have a widespread immunity in their cities. So they should avoid a 2nd wave.

No one knows the correct approach yet.

If no vaccine is found within 2/3 years, Sweden's approach will look very clever indeed. The world economy can't continue like this forever and to save it lives will be lost in the form of herd immunity.

Like you said, zero point judging Sweden right now. They might well have the last laugh.