Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

timmy_mallet

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Parks aren't much fun in the rain I should imagine.

Have you never been a park when it was raining?

timmy_mallet

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Seems like Govt are using fear to keep people in check and on our toes.

When yer job is measured on the amount of capacity in the hospital, why wouldn't you?

Non solum non ambulabit

timmy_mallet wrote: »

When yer job is measured on the amount of capacity in the hospital, why wouldn't you?

I didn't make any comment on it's merits. But I see why they would do it for sure.

castletownman

Last week would generally be a busy one every year for visitors from up north due to those of a particular persuasion wanting to avoid the July 12th celebrations.

I know myself in the museum I work in, a large chunk of our visitors last week were from the North. We have everything set up to comply with social distancing anyway, so as long as they aren't a crowd from Texas*, I am not in the least bit concerned.

* a lot of Americans arrive in Sept/Oct when flights over are cheaper. Expect a swell that time of year for those wary of their arrival.

JP Liz V1

Any idea where the supermarket cases / clusters are?

Strazdas

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Any idea where the supermarket cases / clusters are?

They didn't say where but pointed out it was among staff members working together, not the customers.

Atlantic Dawn

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Any idea where the supermarket cases / clusters are?

They need to give us context, this could be a large newsagents in Ballybackofmyhole with zero space or a Superstore.

Rob A. Bank

castletownman wrote: »

Last week would generally be a busy one every year for visitors from up north due to those of a particular persuasion wanting to avoid the July 12th celebrations.

I know myself in the museum I work in, a large chunk of our visitors last week were from the North. We have everything set up to comply with social distancing anyway, so as long as they aren't a crowd from Texas*, I am not in the least bit concerned.

* a lot of Americans arrive in Sept/Oct when flights over are cheaper. Expect a swell that time of year for those wary of their arrival.

I hope we will have copied Canada long before then.

The border between the United States and Canada has been closed since the 21st March as a precautionary measure to curtail the spread of the Covid-19 virus.

Canada... 111,124 cases and 8,858 deaths.

USA... 3,958,460 cases and 143,743 deaths.

bodhrandude

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

I hope we will have copied Canada long before then.

The border between the United States and Canada has been closed since the 21st March as a precautionary measure to curtail the spread of the Covid-19 virus.

Canada... 111,124 cases and 8,858 deaths.

USA... 3,958,460 cases and 143,743 deaths.

Apparently spiking again in Quebec. https://globalnews.ca/news/7186384/canada-coronavirus-cases-july-16/

ACitizenErased

Some fella on twitter has tried calculating R. Wouldn’t entirely believe it but worth a look.
https://twitter.com/lgradaigh/status/1285269208314580998?s=21

r93kaey5p2izun

Does anyone know if cases classified as nosocomial in the official statistics include hospital worker infections, or just patient infection?

Away With The Fairies

A graph for 2020

fritzelly

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

A graph for 2020

That is very funny

Strazdas

Strazdas wrote: »

They didn't say where but pointed out it was among staff members working together, not the customers.

A cluster could also be 3 people who live together or went to the same party who happen to work in Tesco.

I see Ireland has donated the contact tracing app to the Linux Foundation. Good thing to do. Maybe some poorer countries that haven't developed an app can modify it and use it for themselves.

MickeyLeari

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I mentioned yesterday about this builder on Reddit Ireland saying worksites could be a big problem going forward

I thought they are working in pods so as to limit contamination between teams. Of course they should socially distance and protect themselves but perhaps it is not necessarily the wrong approach.

prunudo

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They need to give us context, this could be a large newsagents in Ballybackofmyhole with zero space or a Superstore.

Context is something that has been lacking throughout the whole pandemic. As they say, statistics can be used to make or prove whatever point you're trying to make.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

A cluster could also be 3 people who live together or went to the same party who happen to work in Tesco.

It is also a convenient addition to the current public health message on mask wearing seeing as we do view such locations as being low risk.

is_that_so

prunudo wrote: »

Context is something that has been lacking throughout the whole pandemic. As they say, statistics can be used to make or prove whatever point you're trying to make.

This is probably true with very small clusters or where such data might make people identifiable, but I think they have made a lot of effort to produce such details otherwise.

Boggles

Santy2015 wrote: »

If like last week we see 30 or so cases tomorrow I think it’s deliberate. If they know results for the full weekend then why not give them on the Monday instead of waiting a day. It makes no odds. It is bull that there’s a lag. There shouldn’t be at this stage.

But why?

Supercell

How is Ireland going to get the vaccine?, are we dependant on dispersal by the EU?- if so I'd imagine we must be fairly low on the pecking order given our size as it seems to be everyman for himself at the moment.
With news that the US,Britain Russia and China are already negotiating supply deals in advance of approval, what are our own government doing to ensure supply once these vaccines become available on the market?
Anyone have any idea?, haven't seen anything in the Irish media about this.

is_that_so

Supercell wrote: »

How is Ireland going to get the vaccine?, are we dependant on dispersal by the EU?- if so I'd imagine we must be fairly low on the pecking order given our size as it seems to be everyman for himself at the moment.
With news that the US,Britain Russia and China are already negotiating supply deals in advance of approval, what are our own government doing to ensure supply once these vaccines become available on the market?

It'll be through the EU, up to 450m doses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0612/1147093-coronavirus-vaccines-eu/

We can't assume initial widespread availability, even when it emerges. Priority groups are more likely to get it first.

Supercell

is_that_so wrote: »

It'll be through the EU, up to 450m doses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0612/1147093-coronavirus-vaccines-eu/

We can't assume initial widespread availability, even when it emerges. Priority groups are more likely to get it first.

Thanks, that's very reassuring.

ZX7R

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I thought they are working in pods so as to limit contamination between teams. Of course they should socially distance and protect themselves but perhaps it is not necessarily the wrong approach.

They are working in pods,6 person's of one pod tested positive, the other 14 were close contacts.
Management at Paul construction are not happy with the situation as on of the affected employees was a close contact of a confirmed contact and did not disclose it .
Sunday and yesterday all staff at the site were required to be tested by management in with the HSE.
If you didn't take the test your employment was terminated.
I expect this is why Dr Glynn may expect higher numbers to be seen today.
If proper guidance was followed by the rest of the staff there should not be a problem.
Paul construction has one of the best health and safety in construction circles.

hmmm

is_that_so wrote: »

It'll be through the EU, up to 450m doses.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0612/1147093-coronavirus-vaccines-eu/

Just three days after that report the EU did make a deal with Astra Zeneca for the Oxford vaccine.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-france/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-shared-across-europe-says-france-idUSKBN23M15T

"A deal between AstraZeneca and four European countries for COVID-19 vaccines involves doses being shared by European Union members on a pro rata basis based on population"

Hopefully they'll also pre-purchase the J&J and Pfizer vaccines, those look to me the most promising.

podgeandrodge

hmmm wrote: »

Just three days after that report the EU did make a deal with Astra Zeneca for the Oxford vaccine.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-france/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-shared-across-europe-says-france-idUSKBN23M15T

"A deal between AstraZeneca and four European countries for COVID-19 vaccines involves doses being shared by European Union members on a pro rata basis based on population"

Hopefully they'll also pre-purchase the J&J and Pfizer vaccines, those look to me the most promising.

Will there be a case that countries have to do deals with multiple 'vaccines' only to have to choose one in the future if one becomes 'the one'? Suppose that works for the companies putting money into the trials now, covers risk.

Boggles

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Will there be a case that countries have to do deals with multiple 'vaccines' only to have to choose one in the future if one becomes 'the one'? Suppose that works for the companies putting money into the trials now, covers risk.

That's would be terrible for the companies, they are mass producing the vaccines now.

podgeandrodge

Deleted User wrote: »

A cluster could also be 3 people who live together or went to the same party who happen to work in Tesco.

is_that_so wrote: »

It is also a convenient addition to the current public health message on mask wearing seeing as we do view such locations as being low risk.

It doesn't help when their message comes across as being ever so slightly economical with the detail.

If Dr Glynn can say that "We are now seeing outbreaks of the virus in a range of work settings, including in construction, in fast food outlets and in supermarkets", we should be given some context if they have it. If 2 people caught it anywhere, that happen to work in fast food, it might be nothing. If 4 people caught it in the same fast food joint of which 2 worked there and 2 eat there, then it's something. If 3 people in the supermarket caught it and all went to the pub last Friday, that's something too. If they don't know yet then maybe said places aren't the source, hence above poster mentioning the party scenario.

podgeandrodge

Boggles wrote: »

That's would be terrible for the companies, they are mass producing the vaccines now.

I agree. Hence I presume they have to get paid in advance by countries and are covered. Or perhaps it's part of their normal strategy - take the risk and hopefully reap the gains?

owlbethere

Supercell wrote: »

How is Ireland going to get the vaccine?, are we dependant on dispersal by the EU?- if so I'd imagine we must be fairly low on the pecking order given our size as it seems to be everyman for himself at the moment.
With news that the US,Britain Russia and China are already negotiating supply deals in advance of approval, what are our own government doing to ensure supply once these vaccines become available on the market?
Anyone have any idea?, haven't seen anything in the Irish media about this.

I don't know. There would be enough vaccine for everyone. I don't know how governments are going to plan who gets it.

The most vulnerable will be pushed but aren't we all vulnerable to the virus, well those of use who haven't have the virus.

I was thinking about this I think rolling it out to adults between the ages of 18/20 to 65/68 years would be the best. Because younger adults would generally move about more. It will be the working group of the population. Prevent them from getting the virus and preventing long term damage from the virus.

I really don't know how governments are going to plan it.

NegativeCreep

I know I’m going to sound like a crazy anti vaccine person and I really am not but I don’t think I’d agree to be part of the first wave people getting this vaccine. Considering the swine flu vaccine was rushed and caused narcolepsy and other weird side effects, I’ll give it a miss until a lot of other people have had it. This virus won’t pose a threat to me if I get it but I could certainly do without narcolepsy in my life.

Juwwi

Healthcare workers ,over 60's , people with underlining conditions that are on the list would more than likely be first in line for the vaccine , then the rest last in the que .

ACitizenErased

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I know I’m going to sound like a crazy anti vaccine person and I really am not but I don’t think I’d agree to be part of the first wave people getting this vaccine. Considering the swine flu vaccine was rushed and caused narcolepsy and other weird side effects, I’ll give it a miss until a lot of other people have had it. This virus won’t pose a threat to me if I get it but I could certainly do without narcolepsy in my life.

I’ll be at the front of the queue and i’ll take two jabs if they give it

redmgar

For any who thinks that numbers are being manipulated to appear larger, what reason would the government do this?

KrustyUCC

Nursing unions on RTE complaining that staff might not be reporting symptoms of Covid-19 due to not being paid if self isolating

Hmmm that might explain the very high rates of cases amongst health care workers

Hurrache

Supercell wrote: »

How is Ireland going to get the vaccine?, are we dependant on dispersal by the EU?- if so I'd imagine we must be fairly low on the pecking order given our size as it seems to be everyman for himself at the moment.

That's not how the EU works.

stargazer 68

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Nursing unions on RTE complaining that staff might not be reporting symptoms of Covid-19 due to not being paid if self isolating

Hmmm that might explain the very high rates of cases amongst health care workers

They are being paid if they are off just not being paid their premiums = weekend rates, night rates etc. Amounts to a fair amount over a month. But I really doubt staff are coming into work if they have symptoms.

NegativeCreep

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ll be at the front of the queue and i’ll take two jabs if they give it

I’ll let you be the guinea pig so

Eod100

Deleted User wrote: »

I see Ireland has donated the contact tracing app to the Linux Foundation. Good thing to do. Maybe some poorer countries that haven't developed an app can modify it and use it for themselves.

Good to see in fairness. Maybe could trade it to UK for some vaccines..

KrustyUCC

stargazer 68 wrote: »

They are being paid if they are off just not being paid their premiums = weekend rates, night rates etc. Amounts to a fair amount over a month. But I really doubt staff are coming into work if they have symptoms.

Ah OK thanks

Prob picked that up wrong

Eod100

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Nursing unions on RTE complaining that staff might not be reporting symptoms of Covid-19 due to not being paid if self isolating

Hmmm that might explain the very high rates of cases amongst health care workers

Maybe state needs to incentivise people to stay off work by paying full salary for 14 days. Better that than people potentially infecting other healthcare workers and patients.

stargazer 68

Eod100 wrote: »

Maybe state needs to incentivise people to stay off work by paying full salary for 14 days. Better that than people potentially infecting other healthcare workers and patients.

They are being paid their basic just not their premiums. This is extra they get for working weekends and nights. If you are off sick or on Al/PL you don't get these premiums normally. The HSE made the decision back in March that any staff on Covid leave - no matter how long for - would not be paid the premiums.

Can't have staff who are off for 3-4 months being paid extra for hours that aren't worked. And yes there are staff off since March with underlying conditions. There are also staff gone out with 'symptoms' several times since March and had negative swabs. Has to be a line somewhere IMO.

Gruffalux

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Nursing unions on RTE complaining that staff might not be reporting symptoms of Covid-19 due to not being paid if self isolating

Hmmm that might explain the very high rates of cases amongst health care workers

This might happen in lots of areas. So few places pay sick leave. Sites, shops, etc. People were wondering why some might refuse contact tracing tests - no work, no pay if they test positive. The way a lot live financially week to week means they would keep the head down if mildly symptomatic. Two weeks off could mean losing the flat. The middle class professionals in charge of managing Covid have no clue about that kind of financial burden.

Eod100

stargazer 68 wrote: »

They are being paid their basic just not their premiums. This is extra they get for working weekends and nights. If you are off sick or on Al/PL you don't get these premiums normally. The HSE made the decision back in March that any staff on Covid leave - no matter how long for - would not be paid the premiums.

Can't have staff who are off for 3-4 months being paid extra for hours that aren't worked. And yes there are staff off since March with underlying conditions. There are also staff gone out with 'symptoms' several times since March and had negative swabs. Has to be a line somewhere IMO.

Sure just think in context of infectious disease like this it might be necessary. Don't think it should be for anyone off 3-4 months. More the 2 weeks so people aren't reluctant to get tested and self-isolate.

It's a tricky one but in a healthcare setting seems like everything needs to be done to avoid risk of spread including proper access to PPE also.

gipi

A poster asked about underlying condition statistics - I found this on the hspc website, which might be of interest

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/underlyingconditionsreports/

podgeandrodge

redmgar wrote: »

For any who thinks that numbers are being manipulated to appear larger, what reason would the government do this?

I don't personally think any figures are being manipulated, but some of the language perhaps suggests things are of more concern than they really should be recently. I would say they are looking to other countries' experiences and pulling back just a tad for a few weeks from their previous schedule. I do think that minor case rises were used a bit by them to further this, as opposed to saying they just want to take a step back and watch elsewhere.

Eod100

Gruffalox wrote: »

This might happen in lots of areas. So few places pay sick leave. Sites, shops, etc. People were wondering why some might refuse contact tracing tests - no work, no pay if they test positive. The way a lot live financially week to week means they would keep the head down if mildly symptomatic. Two weeks off could mean losing the flat. The middle class professionals in charge of managing Covid have no clue about that kind of financial burden.

Should have been statutory sick pay for anyone who tests positive if not already entitled to sick pay for 14 days. Not right that people be financially peanalised for doing the right thing.

Either way there's going to be financial cost of potentially affecting others, loss of productivity etc so need solutions like this.

Eod100

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I don't personally think any figures are being manipulated, but some of the language perhaps suggests things are of more concern than they really should be recently. I would say they are looking to other countries' experiences and pulling back just a tad for a few weeks from their previous schedule. I do think that minor case rises were used a bit by them to further this, as opposed to saying they just want to take a step back and watch elsewhere.

I guess a lot of it was erring on the side of caution. They can only model to a certain extent and clusters could potentially increase the estimated number of cases over next few weeks. With prospect of pubs opening and wanting to open schools by end of next month think they didn't want to take the risk.

seamus

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I know I’m going to sound like a crazy anti vaccine person and I really am not but I don’t think I’d agree to be part of the first wave people getting this vaccine. Considering the swine flu vaccine was rushed and caused narcolepsy and other weird side effects, I’ll give it a miss until a lot of other people have had it. This virus won’t pose a threat to me if I get it but I could certainly do without narcolepsy in my life.

Just to clarify, it's incredibly unlikely that this vaccine would give you narcolepsy specifically. That came with one particular brand of flu vaccine, where other brands that vaccinated for the same virus didn't cause narcolepsy. So they have a pretty good grip on why it happened in that case.

The rate was also very low - just over 3 cases per 100,000 vaccinations. The media created a perception that all of the swine flu vaccines caused narcolepsy, caused it in large numbers, and was due to the vaccine being rushed. And none of these things are true.

Of course, it's narcolepsy. It's horrible. There was a 0.003% chance of developing narcolepsy from a shot, and (in hindsight) a 0.00042% chance of contracting and dying from swine flu. So I'll forgo the vaccine, thanks.

We should absolutely be wary of a quickly-developed vaccine. To cover as many bases as we can. But we should also take all of the data together to make informed decisions.

Given today's figures, about 0.5% of the Irish population have contracted covid. And the fatality rate is 7%.

That means that your chances of contracting and dying from covid are 0.035%. Which itself is very low. But if the odds of developing <insert disabling disease here> from the vaccine are 0.003%, then on balance it's a decent payoff. If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

DebDynamite

castletownman wrote: »

* a lot of Americans arrive in Sept/Oct when flights over are cheaper. Expect a swell that time of year for those wary of their arrival.

I’d be worried about the amount of American tourists who were due to come here for the sell-out college football game between Notre Dame and Navy on 29th August in Croke Park. Last time they played here around 10 years ago, 35,000 Americans travelled over, so I would imagine the same numbers were due to travel this time around. It was also cancelled quite late in the day - only last month.

If airlines weren’t giving refunds, I would imagine a lot would still travel. Why not - coming from a country riddled with the virus to a country who are now reporting minuscule cases daily.

Does anyone know has any message been relayed to America asking them not to travel over here? Have they any idea we don’t want them and the level of concern they’re causing us? Do they see that we’ve not banned them as a green light?