Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Pitch n Putt

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Any idea where the supermarket cases / clusters are?

There is none it just suits the implementation of mandatory mask wearing

No known clusters or cases in supermarkets all through March , April and May when there was much more community transmission and suddenly after the mandatory mask wearing some appear.

Ridiculous and they must think people are real stupid if they believe that spin.

The real question is why are we in this country prolonging this?

Why are we months and months late with masks etc on transport and now all retail outlets?

What’s the point at this stage

Why was a construction site closed after 20 plus test positive but meat factory with hundreds of cases stayed open ?

robbiezero

seamus wrote: »

Just to clarify, it's incredibly unlikely that this vaccine would give you narcolepsy specifically. That came with one particular brand of flu vaccine, where other brands that vaccinated for the same virus didn't cause narcolepsy. So they have a pretty good grip on why it happened in that case.

The rate was also very low - just over 3 cases per 100,000 vaccinations. The media created a perception that all of the swine flu vaccines caused narcolepsy, caused it in large numbers, and was due to the vaccine being rushed. And none of these things are true.

Of course, it's narcolepsy. It's horrible. There was a 0.003% chance of developing narcolepsy from a shot, and (in hindsight) a 0.00042% chance of contracting and dying from swine flu. So I'll forgo the vaccine, thanks.

We should absolutely be wary of a quickly-developed vaccine. To cover as many bases as we can. But we should also take all of the data together to make informed decisions.

Given today's figures, about 0.5% of the Irish population have contracted covid. And the fatality rate is 7%.

That means that your chances of contracting and dying from covid are 0.035%. Which itself is very low. But if the odds of developing <insert disabling disease here> from the vaccine are 0.003%, then on balance it's a decent payoff. If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

Surely age and health will vastly skew your odds one way or the other?

Widdensushi

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

There is none it just suits the implementation of mandatory mask wearing

No known clusters or cases in supermarkets all through March , April and May when there was much more community transmission and suddenly after the mandatory mask wearing some appear.

Ridiculous and they must think people are real stupid if they believe that spin.

The real question is why are we in this country prolonging this?

Why are we months and months late with masks etc on transport and now all retail outlets?

What’s the point at this stage

Why was a construction site closed after 20 plus test positive but meat factory with hundreds of cases stayed open ?

Different government making their mark, also changes the discussion from cowengate

seamus

robbiezero wrote: »

Surely age and health will vastly skew your odds one way or the other?

Yes, but these factors also impact the odds of developing complications from the vaccine. The narcolepsy issue, for example was found in one study to only impact immature immune systems - teenagers and children.

There are too many variables to make person-specific recommendations, you have to look at the numbers as a whole.

redmgar

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I don't personally think any figures are being manipulated, but some of the language perhaps suggests things are of more concern than they really should be recently. I would say they are looking to other countries' experiences and pulling back just a tad for a few weeks from their previous schedule. I do think that minor case rises were used a bit by them to further this, as opposed to saying they just want to take a step back and watch elsewhere.

I think that it's an over cautious approach, but understandable in relation to public health. But I think some people have suggested that cases are being bulked together on certain days to inflate numbers, which has a whiff of basement dwelling conspiracy theorist about it.

NegativeCreep

seamus wrote: »

Just to clarify, it's incredibly unlikely that this vaccine would give you narcolepsy specifically. That came with one particular brand of flu vaccine, where other brands that vaccinated for the same virus didn't cause narcolepsy. So they have a pretty good grip on why it happened in that case.

The rate was also very low - just over 3 cases per 100,000 vaccinations. The media created a perception that all of the swine flu vaccines caused narcolepsy, caused it in large numbers, and was due to the vaccine being rushed. And none of these things are true.

Of course, it's narcolepsy. It's horrible. There was a 0.003% chance of developing narcolepsy from a shot, and (in hindsight) a 0.00042% chance of contracting and dying from swine flu. So I'll forgo the vaccine, thanks.

We should absolutely be wary of a quickly-developed vaccine. To cover as many bases as we can. But we should also take all of the data together to make informed decisions.

Given today's figures, about 0.5% of the Irish population have contracted covid. And the fatality rate is 7%.

That means that your chances of contracting and dying from covid are 0.035%. Which itself is very low. But if the odds of developing <insert disabling disease here> from the vaccine are 0.003%, then on balance it's a decent payoff. If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

I agree with all of that mostly.

I’m technically 10 times more likely to die from COVID than getting anything from a vaccine yes. But if you factor in me being 27 and healthy I’d imagine that chance goes way down. I’m not saying I won’t take the vaccine but I’m going to be far from the front of the queue.

Away With The Fairies

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Nursing unions on RTE complaining that staff might not be reporting symptoms of Covid-19 due to not being paid if self isolating

Hmmm that might explain the very high rates of cases amongst health care workers

Don't you get illness benefit from the first day if you need to self isolate?

stargazer 68

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Don't you get illness benefit from the first day if you need to self isolate?

Nope you get your normal salary minus any 'extras'. Covid leave is paid without impacting your SL record

Away With The Fairies

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

There is none it just suits the implementation of mandatory mask wearing

No known clusters or cases in supermarkets all through March , April and May when there was much more community transmission and suddenly after the mandatory mask wearing some appear.

Ridiculous and they must think people are real stupid if they believe that spin.

The real question is why are we in this country prolonging this?

Why are we months and months late with masks etc on transport and now all retail outlets?

What’s the point at this stage

Why was a construction site closed after 20 plus test positive but meat factory with hundreds of cases stayed open ?

How exactly do you know that shop workers weren't getting this in March or April. There were people with symptoms and couldn't get a test because they haven't travelled or they weren't in the at risk group.

ACitizenErased

Delhi in India’s seroprevalence tests have come back at 23.48%, meaning at least 4.7 million have been infected.

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1640137

is_that_so

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How exactly do you know that shop workers weren't getting this in March or April. There were people with symptoms and couldn't get a test because they haven't travelled or they weren't in the at risk group.

They may have been but there is a sense that this is being highlighted now less to inform and more to drive government policy. Retail has had very few cases, according to the retailers themselves.

hmmm

seamus wrote: »

If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

Plus think of the people in at-risk groups who won't be able to receive a vaccine. They are dependent on the rest of us getting immunity in order for them to be protected. You have a civic duty (in my opinion) to get vaccinated.

ShineOn7

seamus wrote: »

Just to clarify, it's incredibly unlikely that this vaccine would give you narcolepsy specifically. That came with one particular brand of flu vaccine, where other brands that vaccinated for the same virus didn't cause narcolepsy. So they have a pretty good grip on why it happened in that case.

The rate was also very low - just over 3 cases per 100,000 vaccinations. The media created a perception that all of the swine flu vaccines caused narcolepsy, caused it in large numbers, and was due to the vaccine being rushed. And none of these things are true.

Of course, it's narcolepsy. It's horrible. There was a 0.003% chance of developing narcolepsy from a shot, and (in hindsight) a 0.00042% chance of contracting and dying from swine flu. So I'll forgo the vaccine, thanks.

We should absolutely be wary of a quickly-developed vaccine. To cover as many bases as we can. But we should also take all of the data together to make informed decisions.

Given today's figures, about 0.5% of the Irish population have contracted covid. And the fatality rate is 7%.

That means that your chances of contracting and dying from covid are 0.035%. Which itself is very low. But if the odds of developing <insert disabling disease here> from the vaccine are 0.003%, then on balance it's a decent payoff. If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

Excellent post

The worldwide fatality rate is somewhere around 2 or 3% versus Ireland's 7%

Given the huge amount of nursing home mortalities in Ireland (a third of the total number I believe?), it's easy enough to work out why we're 5% higher than the average

Pitch n Putt

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How exactly do you know that shop workers weren't getting this in March or April. There were people with symptoms and couldn't get a test because they haven't travelled or they weren't in the at risk group.

Well supermarkets were one of the only places open during March ,April and May and no reporting of huge clusters or fear they may have to close as all the staff were unable to work due to having contracted the virus.
Even though they would have been working 10-12 hrs per day in contact with many people and masks were not mandatory.

The main spread of this virus was caused by the decision to clear the hospitals for the so called surge that was to happen.

This resulted in the hundreds of unnecessary deaths of elderly nursing home residents as hospital beds were cleared but positive covid cases WERE sent to the nursing homes.

The people weren’t even tested before been sent there for God’s sake

This all happened under the guidance of the CMO at the time and the mans being hailed as a hero now by many.

Maybe if we prolong it here and keep the fear factor going for another few months the real disaster of our actions as outlined above may be forgotten and no questions will need to be answered as to why this was allowed to happen.

And then we can all get back to normal with the same HSE cartel and a ongoing non functional health care system wasting millions and millions for another decade or more.

NegativeCreep

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Excellent post

The worldwide fatality rate is somewhere around 2 or 3% versus Ireland's 7%

Given the huge amount of nursing home mortalities in Ireland (a third of the total number I believe?), it's easy enough to work out why we're 5% higher than the average

And including those who died with covid, not just those that died because of covid

is_that_so

NegativeCreep wrote: »

And including those who died with covid, not just those that died because of covid

That data can be teased out in the underlying causes analysis but that's how a diagnosis works. If that's what you have when you die then that's what killed you. Recording of deaths looks at the overall effect of COVID and unfortunately it rapidly accelerated the decline for some.

NegativeCreep

is_that_so wrote: »

That data can be teased out in the underlying causes analysis but that's how a diagnosis works. If that's what you have when you die then that's what killed you.

That’s not true. If I have genital warts and die of a heart attack, it wasn’t the genital warts that killed me.

is_that_so

NegativeCreep wrote: »

That’s not true. If I have genital warts and die of a heart attack, it wasn’t the genital warts that killed me.

But the determined cause of death would be a heart attack, just like COVID was for many cases during this.

podgeandrodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How exactly do you know that shop workers weren't getting this in March or April. There were people with symptoms and couldn't get a test because they haven't travelled or they weren't in the at risk group.

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Well supermarkets were one of the only places open during March ,April and May and no reporting of huge clusters or fear they may have to close as all the staff were unable to work due to having contracted the virus.
Even though they would have been working 10-12 hrs per day in contact with many people and masks were not mandatory.

The main spread of this virus was caused by the decision to clear the hospitals for the so called surge that was to happen.

This resulted in the hundreds of unnecessary deaths of elderly nursing home residents as hospital beds were cleared but positive covid cases WERE sent to the nursing homes.

The people weren’t even tested before been sent there for God’s sake

This all happened under the guidance of the CMO at the time and the mans being hailed as a hero now by many.

Maybe if we prolong it here and keep the fear factor going for another few months the real disaster of our actions as outlined above may be forgotten and no questions will need to be answered as to why this was allowed to happen.

And then we can all get back to normal with the same HSE cartel and a ongoing non functional health care system wasting millions and millions for another decade or more.

Not only this, if supermarkets were spreading locations, community transmission would not have got to such low rates. They are practically the only business out there that has had consistent usage by the population on a regular basis. And I don't subscribe to this "ahh but they only had one person per trolley back then". It's simply too convenient that when the Govt made the choice to push masks that supermarkets are now a problem!

podgeandrodge

NegativeCreep wrote: »

That’s not true. If I have genital warts and die of a heart attack, it wasn’t the genital warts that killed me.

That's a bit "negative" of you

But best of luck with the treatment!:pac:

hmmm

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I’m technically 10 times more likely to die from COVID than getting anything from a vaccine yes. But if you factor in me being 27 and healthy I’d imagine that chance goes way down. I’m not saying I won’t take the vaccine but I’m going to be far from the front of the queue.

I wonder if people are forgetting the long-term side effects reported by many Covid-infected people (up to 50%?). The risk of death looks low, but there's plenty of reports of brain-fog, shortness of breath, kidney, lung, heart damage - and for many it hasn't gone away. We're still not sure if this is a temporary thing or a chronic condition.

I personally am not so worried about death, but would like to be able to walk up a set of stairs without getting out of breath. The miniscule risk from a vaccine seems pretty minor to me.

What Username Guidelines

hmmm wrote: »

Plus think of the people in at-risk groups who won't be able to receive a vaccine. They are dependent on the rest of us getting immunity in order for them to be protected. You have a civic duty (in my opinion) to get vaccinated.

A lot of the anti-vax arguments before this were "Let me choose for my kid" and if they do contract something and pass it on, then it's the other kids fault for not being vaccinated as well.. My daughter can't have some vaccinations and trying to argue with these people gets you nowhere. They know what's right and it's "their body, their choice" type of stuff. :rolleyes:

bb1234567

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Delhi in India’s seroprevalence tests have come back at 23.48%, meaning at least 4.7 million have been infected.

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePage.aspx?PRID=1640137

Interesting, so that helps to put into perspective why so many young Indians have died of covid . It seems it has simply just passed through such a large percent of a population with hardly any elderly people and killed the few young who were suspectible, because Indias population is so large this is accumulating a pretty larger number of deaths but in reality the level of infection is just enormous

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

I wonder if people are forgetting the long-term side effects reported by many Covid-infected people (up to 50%?). The risk of death looks low, but there's plenty of reports of brain-fog, shortness of breath, kidney, lung, heart damage - and for many it hasn't gone away. We're still not sure if this is a temporary thing or a chronic condition.

I personally am not so worried about death, but would like to be able to walk up a set of stairs without getting out of breath. The miniscule risk from a vaccine seems pretty minor to me.

This seems a good place to post this piece on post-viral fatigue.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-why-are-some-people-experiencing-long-term-fatigue-141405

Gael23

Cases must be too low for their liking https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0721/1154513-siptu-covid-healthcare-workers/

hmmm

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Will there be a case that countries have to do deals with multiple 'vaccines' only to have to choose one in the future if one becomes 'the one'? Suppose that works for the companies putting money into the trials now, covers risk.

Governments are signing deals to get access to and start manufacturing promising vaccines now before they know whether they work or not. It's likely that some might not succeed, and potentially it will cost us billions. As well like you say, one might turn out to be so much better than all the others.

It's a small price to pay though. I heard someone estimate that the US economy is losing $10 billion a day, if we can shave 6 months off the time required to get a vaccine by starting work now it's worth risking a few billion.

Non solum non ambulabit

seamus wrote: »

That means that your chances of contracting and dying from covid are 0.035%. Which itself is very low. But if the odds of developing <insert disabling disease here> from the vaccine are 0.003%, then on balance it's a decent payoff. If you do nothing you're ten times more likely to die from covid, than you are to contract <something> if you get the vaccine.

Those odds are signficantly changed too based on your age and health. 93% of deaths in Ireland had underlying conditions. (I am open to correction here but that is what i remember from acting CMO yesterday)

little bess

ZX7R wrote: »

They are working in pods,6 person's of one pod tested positive, the other 14 were close contacts.

I wonder how many firms are using the pod system. My husband is in construction, working in D4, but definitely not using this system. He says the canteen is spotless, there’s Perspex at the tables between each person, and a cleaner there, and the toilets are spotless too.

But no pods and they can’t keep 2m rule a lot of the time. He’s wearing a mask most of the time but others aren’t. They had a health and safety talk about it yesterday, encouraging the lads to wear masks.

Non solum non ambulabit

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I agree with all of that mostly.

I’m technically 10 times more likely to die from COVID than getting anything from a vaccine yes. But if you factor in me being 27 and healthy I’d imagine that chance goes way down. I’m not saying I won’t take the vaccine but I’m going to be far from the front of the queue.

You also have to remember that you taking the vaccine protects others too not just yourself. If you are vaccinated you won't pass it on. That is the main reason we all need to vaccinated.

robfowler78

is_that_so wrote: »

This seems a good place to post this piece on post-viral fatigue.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-why-are-some-people-experiencing-long-term-fatigue-141405

I find this confusing so if 14millon people have covid does that mean at least 50% so 7 million will have longterm problems.

I always thought it was 50% of the serious cases not the total infected. And how can we judge long term after a couple of months.

timmy_mallet

hmmm wrote: »

I wonder if people are forgetting the long-term side effects reported by many Covid-infected people (up to 50%?). The risk of death looks low, but there's plenty of reports of brain-fog, shortness of breath, kidney, lung, heart damage - and for many it hasn't gone away. We're still not sure if this is a temporary thing or a chronic condition.

I personally am not so worried about death, but would like to be able to walk up a set of stairs without getting out of breath. The miniscule risk from a vaccine seems pretty minor to me.

Minuscule risk from what vaccine? And a phase 1 trial cant even prove efficacy, let alone safety.

timmy_mallet

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

You also have to remember that you taking the vaccine protects others too not just yourself. If you are vaccinated you won't pass it on. That is the main reason we all need to vaccinated.

No proof of this.

redmgar

[PHP][/PHP]

Gael23 wrote: »

Cases must be too low for their liking https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0721/1154513-siptu-covid-healthcare-workers/

Why would "they" want high numbers?

US2

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Those odds are signficantly changed too based on your age and health. 93% of deaths in Ireland had underlying conditions. (I am open to correction here but that is what i remember from acting CMO yesterday)

Yeah its 94% with underlying conditions, and the median age of covid deaths is older than average life expectancy in Ireland

is_that_so

robfowler78 wrote: »

I find this confusing so if 14millon people have covid does that mean at least 50% so 7 million will have longterm problems.

I always thought it was 50% of the serious cases not the total infected. And how can we judge long term after a couple of months.

I think severe to critical cases are about 10-15% or so and that's what I understand they are looking at. I completely agree on long-term. We don't and can't know yet. Research on it says "could" or "might" but that has now become "does" or "will" in some quarters.

eagle eye

podgeandrodge wrote:

It's simply too convenient that when the Govt made the choice to push masks that supermarkets are now a problem!

Well there's a number of things here. Firstly we might have been lied to about figures from supermarkets or more likely all the crooks in government have bought shares in the companies that will be supplying masks to Ireland.

is_that_so

timmy_mallet wrote: »

No proof of this.

If a vaccine stops you getting it, how can you pass on something you don't have?

wadacrack

Very interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_wSU1JnTE

is_that_so

wadacrack wrote: »

Very interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3_wSU1JnTE

The doctor who isn't a doctor!

dundalkfc10

Disgraceful scenes in Walkinstown.

This is why the Irish people can't be trusted

is_that_so

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Disgraceful scenes in Walkinstown.

This is why the Irish people can't be trusted

What are you doing in Walkinstown and what's going on there?
EDIT: Now I see, just leave them do it. He meant a lot to all of us!

MerlinSouthDub

is_that_so wrote: »

If a vaccine stops you getting it, how can you pass on something you don't have?

It it possible that the vaccines might dampen the effects of the virus, but not stop you getting it.

dundalkfc10

is_that_so wrote: »

What are you doing in Walkinstown and what's going on there?
EDIT: Now I see, just leave them do it. He meant a lot to all of us!

Ah so because someone meant a hell of a lot to us, your accepting social distancing rules should not be adhered too.

ACitizenErased

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Disgraceful scenes in Walkinstown.

This is why the Irish people can't be trusted

Would ya stop ffs they’re outside, a good few are wearing masks and there’s at least a metre between most

wadacrack

is_that_so wrote: »

The doctor who isn't a doctor!

He clearly states on his about me that he is a retired nurse and a link to his LinkedIn. He has been a great source throughout the pandemic and raised alarm very early

tom1ie

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Would ya stop ffs they’re outside, a good few are wearing masks and there’s at least a metre between most

Where are you guys seeing what’s happening In walkinstown?

ACitizenErased

tom1ie wrote: »

Where are you guys seeing what’s happening In walkinstown?

Twitter, people out celebrating Jack Charlton.

is_that_so

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ah so because someone meant a hell of a lot to us, your accepting social distancing rules should not be adhered too.

I don't judge people's actions in this type of scenario. I am past caring about rants about SD or anything anyone else might do. There's just me and what I do.

robfowler78

is_that_so wrote: »

I think severe to critical cases are about 10-15% or so and that's what I understand they are looking at. I completely agree on long-term. We don't and can't know yet. Research on it says "could" or "might" but that has now become "does" or "will" in some quarters.

I always thought it was critical and severe also. It hard to get a balanced view on a forum lol

ShineOn7

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Would ya stop ffs they’re outside, a good few are wearing masks and there’s at least a metre between most

Didn't see many masks at all. Only mostly on the oul lads

And we must've been watching a different video if you saw a metre between most! ;-)