Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

YellowBucket

US2 wrote: »

Your also seeing thousands upon thousands of hypochondriacs looking thinking they have it and testing negative, also thousands of people thinking they were floored with it in December.

It's mostly a harmless disease for healthy people under 65, no amount of scaremongering will change the facts.

It would seem that basically all of the experts and all of the experience is pointing towards it being a LOT more serious than flu. It also simply is not the influenza virus so even by that logic it is not flu and will be unlikely to cause the exact same set of symptoms as flu.

As for the people who’ve been tested. If you’re talking about antibody tests and they’re taken more than 3 months after the symptoms, the research is pointing towards no antibodies showing up as being quite normal. That doesn’t necessarily mean no immunity at all, as there may be T cell memory but it’s not looking like it provokes much of a long term immune response and definitely isn’t leaving a lot of people with long term detectable antibodies but a negative antibody test beyond a few months may be meaningless.

No amount of dismissing facts and evidence will make it any better either.

Gruffalux

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Jesus you gotta love this thread

“Doesn’t seem to be long term side effects”
“Claire Byrne still has issues”
“Yeah but that’s just one and it’s RTÉ”
“Well 91% of nurses are still suffering fatigue”
“Yeah but can you prove it’s covid?”

Yet everything on the “all is rosy” side is stuff like “I don’t think we’re having a second wave and if you think you are you’re probably pulling the mickey off yourself”

Haha had to laugh at this.

The amount of times that misery **** trope has been used since day one of coronavirus has left me bemused. There is hardly a day when someone does not imagine other people doing it. One even had sand paper inserted in the visualisation yesterday. Very odd!!

US2

YellowBucket wrote: »

It would seem that basically all of the experts and all of the experience is pointing towards it being a LOT more serious than flu. It also simply is not the influenza virus so even by that logic it is not flu and will be unlikely to cause the exact same set of symptoms as flu.

As for the people who’ve been tested. If you’re talking about antibody tests and they’re taken more than 3 months after the symptoms, the research is pointing towards no antibodies showing up as being quite normal. That doesn’t necessarily mean no immunity at all, as there may be T cell memory but it’s not looking like it provokes much of a long term immune response and definitely isn’t leaving a lot of people with long term detectable antibodies but a negative antibody test beyond a few months may be meaningless.

No amount of dismissing facts and evidence will make it any better either.

There's around 10 people in hospital country wide with covid. Its mostly harmless for most people.

gabeeg

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Jesus you gotta love this thread

“Doesn’t seem to be long term side effects”
“Claire Byrne still has issues”
“Yeah but that’s just one and it’s RTɔ
“Well 91% of nurses are still suffering fatigue”
“Yeah but can you prove it’s covid?”

Yet everything on the “all is rosy” side is stuff like “I don’t think we’re having a second wave and if you think you are you’re probably pulling the mickey off yourself”

In fairness there's nothing sexier than a highly infectious virus that can leave long term damage or even kill you and those you love.

gabeeg

US2 wrote: »

Your also seeing thousands upon thousands of hypochondriacs looking thinking they have it and testing negative, also thousands of people thinking they were floored with it in December.

It's mostly a harmless disease for healthy people under 65, no amount of scaremongering will change the facts.

Have you got a link to some facts about those thousands of hypochondriac bastards clogging up the system, buddy?

What Username Guidelines

US2 wrote: »

Your also seeing thousands upon thousands of hypochondriacs looking thinking they have it and testing negative, also thousands of people thinking they were floored with it in December.

It's mostly a harmless disease for healthy people under 65, no amount of scaremongering will change the facts.

No amount of ignoring data or skewing it will change the facts either.

It’s a fascinating disease, some people in their 90s survive with no issues or even symptoms, then a 27 year old nurse has issues for months. There’s so much we’ve learned in the last 6 months but just as much, if not more, that we don’t know.

Personally I move from “it’ll all be fine” camp to “Jesus no we’re doomed” camp almost daily with ease after reading varying viewpoints.

polesheep

caveat emptor wrote: »

Check my next post. two thirds of nurses who contracted it are still experiencing post viral fatigue.

That's the majority.


HSE being challenged on workplace safety.
A tweet where HSE executive downplays any post viral effect is par for the course.

And most nurses who didn't catch it are also experiencing fatigue. They are mentally drained by the whole thing. Fatigue is a very difficult thing to quantify.

caveat emptor

polesheep wrote: »

And most nurses who didn't catch it are also experiencing fatigue. They are mentally drained by the whole thing. Fatigue is a very difficult thing to quantify.

source?

marno21

gabeeg wrote: »

Have you got a link to some facts about those thousands of hypochondriac bastards clogging up the system, buddy?

Continuous positive rate in testing being less than 1% is enough evidence.

A doctor posted on Twitter last week about the number of calls he was getting looking for covid tests. All this talk of second waves and people needing tests all around the country but the proof is in the results of these tests. 99% of people daily submitting for covid tests are testing negative

s1ippy

YellowBucket wrote: »

I’m sure of any group of people, professional healthcare workers would be able to identify that they’re suffering from illness induced fatigue rather than just working hard.

I’d tend to listen to the nurses and doctors on this one.

You’re also seeing and hearing exactly the same story from people around the world reporting identical experiences of long recoveries and lasting symptoms.

Hundreds of thousands of them, and this has been widely known since mid-March.

https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/03/11/i-had-covid-19-and-heres-my-story-woman-shares-details-of-coronavirus-experience/

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/15/816174103/former-coronavirus-infected-patient

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8110389/Coronavirus-patients-recover-left-damaged-lungs-researchers-claim.html

https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2020/03/15/the-other-potential-coronavirus-catastrophe-no-one-is-talking-about/

Being in denial is not an effective strategy against a pandemic, as America are demonstrating.

Micky 32 wrote: »

Thankfully on a positive note i know 12 people who have had it including my cousin that has type 1 diabetes.

All have recovered with no after effects whatsoever.

Two (one elderly, one with a mild disability) out of three that live near me with it have died, the other (overweight but only in their thirties) is never going to have a quality of life resembling what it was before. One perfectly healthy young person I know abroad and his partner no longer have a sense of smell after contracting it. I don't know anyone with "no after effects". So I guess it's relative. I certainly wouldn't presume nobody has any long-term illness, just as I wouldn't presume that everyone will definitely feel knock-on effects after they recover.

My views are informed by facts, instead of by wishing on a star for what I would rather be true (and vehemently opposing anyone who presents any evidence to the contrary).

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Evidence please... and the ethnic origin of the travelers is totally irrelevant.

The virus does not swim here, blow in with the wind or fall with the misty rain.

It arrives in people from known hotspots, just like it did from Italy in March.

USA has just topped 4,000,000 cases and had a death toll of over 1,100 yesterday.

Legal residents should not be allowed return? Where is the evidence that the vast majority of those entering are not isolating?

US2

Cant believe people are trying to argue that disease is mostly harmless to most people.

How many positive tests in last 30 days , how many hospital admissions in last 30 days.

Why do people enjoy being scared.

gabeeg

marno21 wrote: »

Continuous positive rate in testing being less than 1% is enough evidence.

A doctor posted on Twitter last week about the number of calls he was getting looking for covid tests. All this talk of second waves and people needing tests all around the country but the proof is in the results of these tests. 99% of people daily submitting for covid tests are testing negative

We were talking about long term effects.

But please, carry on

polesheep

caveat emptor wrote: »

source?

Ask any of them. I live with one and know many. They are completely fed up with it. Just having to wear a mask all day is becoming a drain, to the point that a lot of them on the general wards are now not wearing them. Look around you, there is a general weariness throughout the entire population thanks to Covid - apart from those who find it fascinating. People have had enough and just wish that the damn thing would go away.

Micky 32

s1ippy wrote: »

My views are informed by facts, instead of by wishing on a star for what I would rather be true (and vehemently opposing anyone who presents any evidence to the contrary).

I don’t give a toss about your informed facts. I know 12 people fully recovered the oldest being 78 that caught in hospital after suffering a mild stroke.

My cousin lost her sense of taste/smell. Guess what, it fully returned. But keep up your post covid doom and gloom hysteria, be my guest.

s1ippy

Well I think you're extremely brave to still be plugging away at that narrative, even at the risk of looking very foolish while doing so.

gabeeg

US2 wrote: »

Cant believe people are trying to argue that disease is mostly harmless to most people.

How many positive tests in last 30 days , how many hospital admissions in last 30 days.

Why do people enjoy being scared.

Ask Stephen King.

You generally don't get admitted to hospital if you're suffering long-term covid effects. You struggle on at home.

YellowBucket

Micky 32 wrote: »

I don’t give a toss about your informed facts..

Well at least we know where you stand in any debate then.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Continuous positive rate in testing being less than 1% is enough evidence.

A doctor posted on Twitter last week about the number of calls he was getting looking for covid tests. All this talk of second waves and people needing tests all around the country but the proof is in the results of these tests. 99% of people daily submitting for covid tests are testing negative

That's a good thing - the higher the rate of positive tests the higher the probability of missing cases, the higher the probability of untraced community cases, the higher the probability of uncontrolled spread

gabeeg

Micky 32 wrote: »

I don’t give a toss about your informed facts. I know 12 people fully recovered the oldest being 78 that caught in hospital after suffering a mild stroke.

My cousin lost her sense of taste/smell. Guess what, it fully returned. But keep up your post covid doom and gloom hysteria, be my guest.

I know multiple people suffering with long term covid effects.

This is all anecdotal evidence. But your anecdotal evidence doesn't negate ours. Just like ours doesn't negate yours.

You're just lucky I guess

What Username Guidelines

US2 wrote: »

Cant believe people are trying to argue that disease is mostly harmless to most people.

How many positive tests in last 30 days , how many hospital admissions in last 30 days.

Why do people enjoy being scared.

No one enjoys being scared, to think that people are enjoying this is the height of ignorance.

How does positive tests have anything to do with it? This is not about the number of cases or worrying about a surge, it is genuine concern about the unknowns of a new illness shown in clear data.

Links and data are being posted to show that while there may be a “mild” category it is relative and may mean that even without hospitalisation, people may suffer long term issues when data considers them “recovered”. Some issues appear minor, others life changing.

So excuse us if discussing exercising a degree of caution is give us all raging boners.

Micky 32

s1ippy wrote: »

Well I think you're extremely brave to still be plugging away at that narrative, even at the risk of looking very foolish while doing so.

Are you referring to me? No i just don’t let hysteria rule my life. What do you expect me to do about it? Stock up with bog roll,? I take every precaution out there.

ACitizenErased

I know someone who died and also someone who recovered fully after a week, it really depends on personal circumstances

bb1234567

Lads are we really posting anecdotes to somehow try and undermine the validity of a study of hundreds, like come on

Studies inform and direct debate , anecdotes distract and lower the quality of discussion.

YellowBucket

The issue is it’s a new (to humans) virus. You’re going to see a wide range of reactions and immune responses to it and that seems to be what’s coming up in evidence from around the world.

Micky 32

YellowBucket wrote: »

Well at least we know where you stand in any debate then.

Sure it’s hard to debate when you have a thread full of doom and gloomers.

theballz

s1ippy wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands of them, and this has been widely known since mid-March.

https://www.click2houston.com/health/2020/03/11/i-had-covid-19-and-heres-my-story-woman-shares-details-of-coronavirus-experience/

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/15/816174103/former-coronavirus-infected-patient

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8110389/Coronavirus-patients-recover-left-damaged-lungs-researchers-claim.html

https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2020/03/15/the-other-potential-coronavirus-catastrophe-no-one-is-talking-about/

Being in denial is not an effective strategy against a pandemic, as America are demonstrating.


Two (one elderly, one with a mild disability) out of three that live near me with it have died, the other (overweight but only in their thirties) is never going to have a quality of life resembling what it was before. One perfectly healthy young person I know abroad and his partner no longer have a sense of smell after contracting it. I don't know anyone with "no after effects". So I guess it's relative. I certainly wouldn't presume nobody has any long-term illness, just as I wouldn't presume that everyone will definitely feel knock-on effects after they recover.

My views are informed by facts, instead of by wishing on a star for what I would rather be true (and vehemently opposing anyone who presents any evidence to the contrary).

Firstly, I completely agree with most of what you said. However, I have contradicted the virus (mid 30's, not sporty or by any means fit) and I have zero long term effects - the swab showed positive, I have also had the antibody test which has shown that I have the the antibodies.

In short, I am fitter, healthier and happier than I have ever been in my life so I have to widely disagree with you and call out that you have been very unfortunate to that "I don't know anyone with "no after effects".

ACitizenErased

Micky 32 wrote: »

Sure it’s hard to debate when you have a thread full of doom and gloomers.

The new generation of doomers are more fact driven than the old

Doctor Jimbob

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Jesus you gotta love this thread

“Doesn’t seem to be long term side effects”
“Claire Byrne still has issues”
“Yeah but that’s just one and it’s RTɔ
“Well 91% of nurses are still suffering fatigue”
“Yeah but can you prove it’s covid?”

Yet everything on the “all is rosy” side is stuff like “I don’t think we’re having a second wave and if you think you are you’re probably pulling the mickey off yourself”

Yeah, that's an entirely fair and balanced portrayal of both sides of this discussion. No misrepresentation there at all.

pjohnson

Micky 32 wrote: »

Sure it’s hard to debate when you have a thread full of doom and gloomers.

Or to debate with someone who "doesnt give a toss about facts"......

Rob A. Bank

Deleted User wrote: »

Legal residents should not be allowed return? Where is the evidence that the vast majority of those entering are not isolating?

Strawmen ??

Of course they should be allowed to return... If they self isolate for 14 days.

Half of people not answering the phone on the number they gave on the yellow form at the airport and the reports from businesses refusing those who did not isolate, is evidence enough for me.

The government had better make up it's mind quickly if it wants to protect the bio-security of the country or the interests of the Irish Hotels Federation.

Micky 32

pjohnson wrote: »

Or to debate with someone who "doesnt give a toss about facts"......

I meant to say about facts that over exaggerated. You’ll only hear about the post covid side effects cases. I wonder how many that have recovered around the world that are now 100% in comparison.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0722/1154861-coronavirus-death/

Doctor in the Mater dies with Covid-19.

Non solum non ambulabit

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah right.

Lets not go over the top here

Take that up with the experts if you don't believe them.

It was Dr. Colm Henry who stated that based on actual evidence. Sure there are outliers, as he addressed.

Rob A. Bank

Covid-19 is known to be more dangerous for people with certain underlying conditions.

The question then is how many people have these underlying conditions ?

A team of experts from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine analysed global data sets of illnesses including diabetes, lung disease and HIV used these to estimate how many people are at heightened risk of serious COVID-19 infection.

Answer :- An estimated 1.7 billion people - more than 20 percent of the world's population.

And the proportion is higher in Europe - 30% in danger of serious COVID-19 infection.

If that 30% is applied to Ireland – population = 4,937,786 – at risk group = 1,481,336 people.

But the Trump/Bolsonaro fans and the assorted flu-bros here still say that it's harmless !

Ger Roe

Micky 32 wrote: »

Sure it’s hard to debate when you have a thread full of doom and gloomers.

The head of the HSE has just announced that they are very concerned about the recent rise in cases and the number of close contacts being reported. Also concerned about people refusing to be tested when they are identified as being close contacts of a confirmed positive case.

I would tend to take his concerns seriously, after all he will be tasked with picking up the pieces again, if we do go backwards.

ACitizenErased

Ger Roe wrote: »

The head of the HSE has just announced that they are very concerned about the recent rise in cases and the number of close contacts being reported. Also concerned about people refusing to be tested when they are identified as being close contacts of a confirmed positive case.

I would tend to take his concerns seriously, after all he will be tasked with picking up the pieces again, if we do go backwards.

To be fair they're not going to come out and say everything's rosey, ever.

caveat emptor

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Lets not go over the top here

Take that up with the experts if you don't believe them.

It was Dr. Colm Henry who stated that based on actual evidence. Sure there are outliers, as he addressed.

Thanks for snipping my post.

I said yeah right in relation to a HSE executive downplaying any post viral effects one day after nurses union told enquiry that 2/3rds of nurses are experiencing post viral symptoms.

The INMO is demanding that legislation be changed to allow health and safety inspections be carried out on the environmental risk which nurses and doctors are exposed to.

I find the timing more than a little suspect.

I also pointed out and been shouted down previously for these things.

It wasn’t airborne until it was
Masks didn’t work until they did.

ChelseaRentBoy

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0722/1154861-coronavirus-death/

Doctor in the Mater dies with Covid-19.

R. I. P

A true hero and should be honoured as such.

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Strawmen ??

Of course they should be allowed to return... If they self isolate for 14 days.

Half of people not answering the phone on the number they gave on the yellow form at the airport and the reports from businesses refusing those who did not isolate, is evidence enough for me.

The government had better make up it's mind quickly if it wants to protect the bio-security of the country or the interests of the Irish Hotels Federation.

Here's a novel idea -expect people to have some personal responsibility

Duke of Url

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's a novel idea -expect people to have some personal responsibility

Expectation is the mother of all frustrations

owlbethere

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

R. I. P

A true hero and should be honoured as such.

RIP


Something that's missed here on these forums is that we really have to suppress this virus as much as possible in our country and within our population.

We learned that healthcare workers are a key group of people infected with the virus. We also now know that there is a long tail illness of the virus going on for several months for some people. We really can't afford a second wave of this virus and for the virus cases to climb and peak again. More healthcare workers will probably become ill and there will be less people to treat and care for sick people in hospital.

Boggles

Micky 32 wrote: »

Thankfully on a positive note i know 12 people who have had it including my cousin that has type 1 diabetes.

All have recovered with no after effects whatsoever.

Good for you.

But understandably I'm not going to take the word of some random online stranger over a bonafide study of medical health professionals when it comes to determining if Covid 19 causes a second long term wave of illness.

Micky 32

Boggles wrote: »

Good for you.

But understandably I'm not going to take the word of some random online stranger over a bonafide study of medical health professionals when it comes to determining if Covid 19 causes a second long term wave of illness.

Good for you too. Sure we’ll see longterm. Sure when the vaccine comes out at least you’ll have something else to whinge about regarding longterm effects.

YellowBucket

It just shows how quickly things are changing : There’s open discussion in France about possibly closing the Spanish border again due to rising case numbers in Catalonia.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/europe/espagne/coronavirus-l-espagne-espere-que-la-france-ne-fermera-pas-sa-frontiere-6914784

podgeandrodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Claire Bryne had it mild and she's still suffering effects after 4 months.

Entirely predictable given who it is.

Eod100

owlbethere wrote: »

RIP


Something that's missed here on these forums is that we really have to suppress this virus as much as possible in our country and within our population.

We learned that healthcare workers are a key group of people infected with the virus. We also now know that there is a long tail illness of the virus going on for several months for some people. We really can't afford a second wave of this virus and for the virus cases to climb and peak again. More healthcare workers will probably become ill and there will be less people to treat and care for sick people in hospital.

Yeah I think the other consideration besides greater risk of illness is how physically and mentally exhausting the last few months have been for healthcare workers. Now with flu season approaching and non-covid procedures resuming, there will be extra pressure on health service.

caveat emptor

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Jesus you gotta love this thread

“Doesn’t seem to be long term side effects”
“Claire Byrne still has issues”
“Yeah but that’s just one and it’s RTɔ
“Well 91% of nurses are still suffering fatigue”
“Yeah but can you prove it’s covid?”

Yet everything on the “all is rosy” side is stuff like “I don’t think we’re having a second wave and if you think you are you’re probably pulling the mickey off yourself”

Pandemic is affecting everyone differently. Being able to continue working from home or not is a large factor in some of this divide.

Pilots need to fly.
Publicans need to sell beer.

It might colour people's opinion slightly.

Unfortunately doesn't change the science but Economics important too.

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/USA-REMOTEWORK/xlbpgbrljvq/index.html

Non solum non ambulabit

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Covid-19 is known to be more dangerous for people with certain underlying conditions.

The question then is how many people have these underlying conditions ?

A team of experts from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine analysed global data sets of illnesses including diabetes, lung disease and HIV used these to estimate how many people are at heightened risk of serious COVID-19 infection.

Answer :- An estimated 1.7 billion people - more than 20 percent of the world's population.

And the proportion is higher in Europe - 30% in danger of serious COVID-19 infection.

If that 30% is applied to Ireland – population = 4,937,786 – at risk group = 1,481,336 people.

But the Trump/Bolsonaro fans and the assorted flu-bros here still say that it's harmless !

93% of deaths in Ireland had underlying conditions

Non solum non ambulabit

I didn't get Covid but i have been fatigued all summer due to increased hayfever symptons and being more sedate due to being stuck at home all day.