Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

is_that_so

Strazdas wrote: »

Professor Devi Sridhar in Scotland is strongly against the idea of governments switching on and off lockdowns. She thinks it's like a fire brigade chasing around the place desperately trying to put out new outbreaks.

She reckons mass testing and contact tracing, coupled with social distancing and face masks is the way to go.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/22/pandemic-zero-coronavirus-britain

Uruguay and Cuba would seem to agree on the mass testing.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2247740-how-cuba-and-uruguay-are-quashing-coronavirus-as-neighbours-struggle/

rahmalec

Assetbacked wrote: »

Another day, another quack with an article on the home page of the IT.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-could-eliminate-covid-19-within-months-with-tighter-restrictions-1.4296921

Gerry "Crush the Curve" Killeen this time. Even though he acknowledges that it involves restricting people travelling from abroad and introducing a strict isolation regime, the IT still publish an article about his opinion as if it actually may work. He references far-off lands which we could emulate like Australia, China, NZ, Japan and Korea; obviously totally oblivious to the fact we share a land border with the UK which we won't be able to close and, as well, we are part of Europe, not Asia and Australia!

The article also includes a comment about the economic impact of the virus and his view is that it would be more costly to ride the waves of repeated spikes in infections. I'm sorry, but that is completely out of his area of expertise; I can imagine the scrambling to churn out panic articles if David McWilliams wrote of the economic cost of dealing with the pandemic but threw in an opinion that in his view the working population being pretty much fine if they got the virus means the economic arguments should start holding more weight.

The crush the curvers are, for me, like flat earthers - so dogmatic and ignorant.

I would be very much in favour of a crush the curve approach across all of Europe (including the UK). 2 or 3 months of hard lockdown and get back to normal (but strict quarantine from outside EU+) vs 2 or 3 years of this social distancing crap.

I'll admit I am biased because I am out of work until all social distancing is gone.

Assetbacked

rahmalec wrote: »

I would be very much in favour of a crush the curve approach across all of Europe (including the UK). 2 or 3 months of hard lockdown and get back to normal (but strict quarantine from outside EU+) vs 2 or 3 years of this social distancing crap.

I'll admit I am biased because I am out of work until all social distancing is gone.

It absolutely won't happen though. The only way the virus can be eradicated is if all countries took the exact same approach. The fact Gerry Killeen is held up as some sort of expert despite constantly repeating this view makes me question his expertise.

SeaBreezes

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/weve-lost-control-of-pandemic-top-adviser-says-as-active-cases-spike/

Israel may be the first country in the world to impose a second national lockdown , seems insane I can't believe any country would willingly destroy its economy with a second lockdown

No country is doing this willingly. Its just the alternatives are much much worse

Renjit

Israel seems to have joined another spike after they had beaten the virus allegedly.

Renjit

Renjit wrote: »

Israel seems to have joined another spike after they had beaten the virus allegedly.

What is the point of "allegedly"?

Polar101

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.timesofisrael.com/weve-lost-control-of-pandemic-top-adviser-says-as-active-cases-spike/

Israel may be the first country in the world to impose a second national lockdown , seems insane I can't believe any country would willingly destroy its economy with a second lockdown

That's how a second wave looks like.

Australia might be able to contain it yet, but looks like Israel couldn't.

Renjit

Deleted User wrote: »

What is the point of "allegedly"?

It's anthropomorphism where virus was beaten in the duel and then brought back from the dead like the undertaker :cool:

ZX7R

It appears that Israeli failure is down to
The fact that the government disbanded the central task force to deal with the issue leaving only there medical council to deal with it.
The medical council had difficulties trying to coordinate responses to outbreaks and tracing.
There medical council are now calling for the government to reinstate the full task force.
Despite most headlines saying that Israel will go into full lockdown this is not the case.
There medical council is advising a reintroduction of social restrictions
That were in place prior .
Reductions in public gathering's
Weddings,sports bars restaurants reduced school attendence.
Poor border check control is sighted as a major factor.

podgeandrodge

podgeandrodge wrote: »

So when they were lingering in the supermarkets how come so few got infected would be my question? Seems like even if they are lingering there, they aren't in sufficient quantities to infect most people.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How can you say where people picked up their infections? There was so much that were never tested because they never fitted the criteria in the early days.

I can't. But there aren't many infections in the community, so wherever they got it, it includes not really getting it in supermarkets.

ACitizenErased

Re: the plague - there is hundreds of plague cases in the US every year. The media is making something of literally nothing. There was a massive outbreak in Madagascar a few years back.

Away With The Fairies

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I can't. But there aren't many infections in the community, so wherever they got it, it includes not really getting it in supermarkets.

There was community transmission at the beginning of all this.

Deeper Blue

celt262 wrote: »

There will be plenty more lockdowns before this is over including here. It will be a long winter sitting at home for a lot of us.

It's already been stated here that there won't be any more national lockdowns.

It would be great if people stopped presenting opinion as fact on this thread.

Elmer Blooker

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A bunch of pissheads on RTE radio from the weekend in pubs (Cork) - "fake news" "no such thing as Covid" "hick"

Didn't hear it but of course RTE will find a bunch of pi55ed up yobs to suit their agenda, you wouldn't expect them to interview the more astute and coherent young people and there are lots of them!
Tacky stuff from RTE with the sole purpose of branding young people who want to meet their friends as irresponsible.

caveat emptor

podgeandrodge wrote: »

So when they were lingering in the supermarkets how come so few got infected would be my question? Seems like even if they are lingering there, they aren't in sufficient quantities to infect most people.

We had a large proportion of people who got infected via ‘community transmission’ . That means it wasn’t possible to establish how they got infected. There isn’t some buzzer in the post office that goes “ding ding ding you’ve just been infected, do not pass go do not collect 200”. It’s a little more subtle than that unfortunately. As ever absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In New York people observing the stay at home orders were getting infected in sufficient quantities that the governor called it out and was probably part of the mandatory mask stuff there.

caveat emptor

Assetbacked wrote: »

Another day, another quack with an article on the home page of the IT.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-could-eliminate-covid-19-within-months-with-tighter-restrictions-1.4296921

Gerry "Crush the Curve" Killeen this time. Even though he acknowledges that it involves restricting people travelling from abroad and introducing a strict isolation regime, the IT still publish an article about his opinion as if it actually may work. He references far-off lands which we could emulate like Australia, China, NZ, Japan and Korea; obviously totally oblivious to the fact we share a land border with the UK which we won't be able to close and, as well, we are part of Europe, not Asia and Australia!

........

The crush the curvers are, for me, like flat earthers - so dogmatic and ignorant.

Yeah like nobody told Queensland and New South Wales that they are part of the same country and they can’t enforce a border between them.

I mean it’s not like we have some sort of colour coded means of identifying offenders and then questioning them for the validity of their international sojourn in the middle of a pandemic. Before you jump to the defence of truck drivers. Real economy can keep on trucking.

Don’t need to close the border could just follow up with anyone who crosses it? You don’t need 100% compliance. As ever politics is more important. North not too bad.

Middle Englanders can wait another month I’d say.

fr336

caveat emptor wrote: »

As ever absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Many here don't get this, or more accurately choose not to get it. Very bad form.

fr336

Can you not you know make NI temporarily part of the Republic for the duration? I see no issues arising :pac:

Vicxas

Sorry if this has been posted and discussed already but potentially some good news coming out of Pfizer:

https://www.freethink.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine

ACitizenErased

Vicxas wrote: »

Sorry if this has been posted and discussed already but potentially some good news coming out of Pfizer:

https://www.freethink.com/articles/pfizers-covid-19-vaccine

Aiming to distribute 100 million in 2020. That’d be fantastic, you’d expect Q1 2021 for us.

Hector Savage

I know people don't want to hear good news
But here we go :

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1280069369922494465?s=20

podgeandrodge

caveat emptor wrote: »

We had a large proportion of people who got infected via ‘community transmission’ . That means it wasn’t possible to establish how they got infected. There isn’t some buzzer in the post office that goes “ding ding ding you’ve just been infected, do not pass go do not collect 200”. It’s a little more subtle than that unfortunately. As ever absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In New York people observing the stay at home orders were getting infected in sufficient quantities that the governor called it out and was probably part of the mandatory mask stuff there.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but in relation to the supermarkets, they themselves posted data to the effect that their own staff had not caught the virus in any significant numbers compared to the general population. Given that their staff were there all day every day, it's reasonable to assume that there wasn't mass aerosol transmission going on there, or they would likely have had more cases of staff contracting it.

Away With The Fairies

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but in relation to the supermarkets, they themselves posted data to the effect that their own staff had not caught the virus in any significant numbers compared to the general population. Given that their staff were there all day every day, it's reasonable to assume that there wasn't mass aerosol transmission going on there, or they would likely have had more cases of staff contracting it.

How do they know that their cold/flu at Christmas time wasn't Covid19. It wasn't being tested for back then and it's clear that it's been around since December.

SeaBreezes

Loved this:

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1270714569644576768/photo/1

podgeandrodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How do they know that their cold/flu at Christmas time wasn't Covid19. It wasn't being tested for back then and it's clear that it's been around since December.

You really don't want it to possibly be true that supermarkets mightn't be that dangerous do you

cnocbui

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but in relation to the supermarkets, they themselves posted data to the effect that their own staff had not caught the virus in any significant numbers compared to the general population. Given that their staff were there all day every day, it's reasonable to assume that there wasn't mass aerosol transmission going on there, or they would likely have had more cases of staff contracting it.

How do they know their staff haven't caught it? Has their been a mass testing program of every employee in multiple supermarkets, which would be the only way to know, given that this is a mild, in some cases unnoticeable, disease for the vast majority of people?

big syke

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-current-coronavirus-cases-locations-22308769

surely this is some kind of reclassification of location? 51 in Kildare in 2 weeks and 7 in Dublin?

Stheno

big syke wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-current-coronavirus-cases-locations-22308769

surely this is some kind of reclassification of location? 51 in Kildare in 2 weeks and 7 in Dublin?

Meat plant?

big syke

Stheno wrote: »

Meat plant?

Ye you might be right. Pretty low for Dublin over 14 days though...

More good news

MickeyLeari

cnocbui wrote: »

How do they know their staff haven't caught it? Has their been a mass testing program of every employee in multiple supermarkets, which would be the only way to know, given that this is a mild, in some cases unnoticeable, disease for the vast majority of people?

If there had been a big issue with supermarkets which were open throughout we would not have been able to crush the curve.

ACitizenErased

big syke wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irelands-current-coronavirus-cases-locations-22308769

surely this is some kind of reclassification of location? 51 in Kildare in 2 weeks and 7 in Dublin?

Dublin had about 70 cases reclassified to Kildare and Wicklow

Away With The Fairies

podgeandrodge wrote: »

You really don't want it to possibly be true that supermarkets mightn't be that dangerous do you

I think it's you who can't accept that everywhere people go, is a possibility of picking it up.

MickeyLeari

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think it's you who can't accept that everywhere people go, is a possibility of picking it up.

Indeed but there are different risks. I don’t think a supermarket which has capacity limited to allow for social distancing and has Perspex screen protecting staff is a high risk.

However, a packed bar or club when C-19 is active in the community is a high risk.

ShyMets

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think it's you who can't accept that everywhere people go, is a possibility of picking it up.

You are absolutely correct to say that the its possible to contract the virus in most settings.

But as of yet we have not seen any clusters or spikes associated with shops/supermarkets. This would indicate that they are currently low risk environments.

Assetbacked

Two more fear mongering articles leading the IT home page now, one on MM claiming the 20th July pub reopening may be pushed back and another poor woman who lost a husband and son who had covid. If the IT was a man they'd have blisters on their hand for the amount of pulling themselves off on misery articles they're doing.

ACitizenErased

The chances of picking it up in public now in Ireland is limited at best

Assetbacked

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The chances of picking it up in public now in Ireland is limited at best

Define "public"? And why now but not a few weeks ago?

Plumbthedepths

Assetbacked wrote: »

Two more fear mongering articles leading the IT home page now, one on MM claiming the 20th July pub reopening may be pushed back and another poor woman who lost a husband and son who had covid. If the IT was a man they'd have blisters on their hand for the amount of pulling themselves off on misery articles they're doing.

There's a few here that would fit that profile you mention. Driven by fear and misery.

ACitizenErased

Assetbacked wrote: »

Define "public"? And why now but not a few weeks ago?

Public = shops, restaurants, out walking etc. Our case incidence is lowest in Europe, that’s why.
I’d argue the only place you’d catch it now is off someone you know or in a hospital.

caveat emptor

This table up to the end of June is pretty shocking. I don't think PPE was adequate. Of course it was just all those people who got it who are at fault.
Even the current guidance doesn't acknowledge the potential for aerosol transmission. Whatever about fomite transmission. The report also states that 7 HCW died with Covid. No I know you'll say that they probably fell off their bike and happened to have Covid but still shocking in my mind.

No Profession in a hospital setting was unscathed. And most got it in a "health care setting"





Link: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19casesinhealthcareworkers/COVID-19_HCW_weekly_report_29062020_v1.0%20HPSC%20website%2001%2007%202020.pdf

Away With The Fairies

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Public = shops, restaurants, out walking etc. Our case incidence is lowest in Europe, that’s why.
I’d argue the only place you’d catch it now is off someone you know or in a hospital.

I'd love to have your thinking, but accepting tourists from America is a huge risk. Anyone working with the public is at risk.

drunkmonkey

ShyMets wrote: »

But as of yet we have not seen any clusters or spikes associated with shops/supermarkets. This would indicate that they are currently low risk environments.

We have seen them they just haven't been reported. I know of a few shops/supermarkets that had to close. They were not reported on as clusters or mentioned. I can't back it up as it wasn't reported on all I can say is I've seen it with my own two eyes.
It's a bit like the airline staff, are we to believe they never had a cluster.

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We have seen them they just haven't been reported. I know of a few shops/supermarkets that had to close. They were not reported on as clusters or mentioned. I can't back it up as it wasn't reported on all I can say is I've seen it with my own two eyes.
It's a bit like the airline staff, are we to believe they never had a cluster.

"I can't back it up" , but honestly it's true. lol. Sweet Jesus I've read it all now.
You really should be posting in the conspiracy forum.
Not surprisingly one of the regular fearmongerers have thanked your post.

cnocbui

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The chances of picking it up in public now in Ireland is limited at best

I think minuscule is the word you are looking for.

podgeandrodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I think it's you who can't accept that everywhere people go, is a possibility of picking it up.

Remind me where I said there was no possibility of picking it up everywhere people go?

podgeandrodge

cnocbui wrote: »

How do they know their staff haven't caught it? Has their been a mass testing program of every employee in multiple supermarkets, which would be the only way to know, given that this is a mild, in some cases unnoticeable, disease for the vast majority of people?

You'd have to ask them. But they said it, and presumably based it on the sick leave. As for the mild, unnoticeable disease for the vast majority, wouldn't disagree with you, but still no need for masks then.

MickeyLeari wrote: »

If there had been a big issue with supermarkets which were open throughout we would not have been able to crush the curve.

Exactly.

celt262

cnocbui wrote: »

I think minuscule is the word you are looking for.

I would agree with that at the moment and hopefully it stays that way. I personally think there will be a bit of a spike in the next few weeks.

drunkmonkey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

"I can't back it up" , but honestly it's true. lol. Sweet Jesus I've read it all now.
You really should be posting in the conspiracy forum.
Not surprisingly one of the regular fearmongerers have thanked your post.

I can't because no newspapers ran a story, you'd want to be pretty nieave to believe no retail staff or airline staff contacted it.

podgeandrodge

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I can't because no newspapers ran a story, you'd want to be pretty nieave to believe no retail staff or airline staff contacted it.

well you saw these shops close with your "own two eyes" so at least let us know which shops?

podgeandrodge

celt262 wrote: »

I would agree with that at the moment and hopefully it stays that way. I personally think there will be a bit of a spike in the next few weeks.

I agree that with restrictions being lifted there will be increased cases. Hopefully not as much as a 'spike' but increases nonetheless. And hopefully contact tracing will keep things under control. It's inevitable as restrictions ease, and is not a reason for not proceeding imo.