Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Widdensushi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We have seen them they just haven't been reported. I know of a few shops/supermarkets that had to close. They were not reported on as clusters or mentioned. I can't back it up as it wasn't reported on all I can say is I've seen it with my own two eyes.
It's a bit like the airline staff, are we to believe they never had a cluster.

This kind of baseless scaremongering should be deleted, there are people reading this who will be afraid to go to the supermarket.

An Ciarraioch

No deaths in NI, Scotland or Wales today.

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I can't because no newspapers ran a story, you'd want to be pretty nieave to believe no retail staff or airline staff contacted it.

Lidl stated 11 of their staff contracted the virus out of a workforce of 4500 all recovered. Name the shops that closed because of an outbreak. I have a friend who works for a newspaper in Galway. I'll pass on the details to her .

drunkmonkey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Lidl stated 11 of their staff contracted the virus out of a workforce of 4500 all recovered. Name the shops that closed because of an outbreak. I have a friend who works for a newspaper in Galway. I'll pass on the details to her .

What numbers did Centra give? What numbers did An Post give?
Where's the data from the airlines? What details did other retailers give?
If you think it's impossible that none of them had an outbreak I don't know what to say, should everyone go work in a shop as it provides immunity?
I'm not going to name individual businesses just like everyone else.

caveat emptor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

It’s like the Iranian airlines can spread it but irish ones can’t.

Supermarkets are not going to go out of their way to say staff had it.
Staff aren’t going to go out of their way to say they had it as they may not be wanted back in work given the uncertainty around recovery time’s etc.

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What numbers did Centra give? What numbers did An Post give?
Where's the data from the airlines? What details did other retailers give?
If you think it's impossible that none of them had an outbreak I don't know what to say, should everyone go work in a shop as it provides immunity?
I'm not going to name individual businesses just like everyone else.

My wife works in retail and has worked continuously since the outbreak neither her or any of her colleagues contracted the virus. She works for a chain and she's not aware of anyone contracting the virus in other stores either.
Feel free to PM the names of the shops, no need to name them here.
Btw I didn't say anything was impossible, you made a claim but won't offer any evidence to back it up, why?

drunkmonkey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My wife works in retail and has worked continuously since the outbreak neither her or any of her colleagues contracted the virus. She works for a chain and she's not aware of anyone contracting the virus in other stores either.
Feel free to PM the names of the shops, no need to name them here.

Unless she's on the smt she'd very likely not know. So you believe not one cluster in an Irish retail or airline environment. Does that not strike you as odd when you look at any other county.

PopTarts

10 cases in ICU now (1 Discharged)
20 Cases in Hospital (1 Admission / 2 Discharged)

petes

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Unless she's on the smt she'd very likely not know. So you believe not one cluster in an Irish retail or airline environment. Does that not strike you as odd when you look at any other county.

I'm sure if one of the chains was closed due to an outbreak they'd know.

ACitizenErased

Seroprevelance in Spain. Up to 15% in some spots.

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Unless she's on the smt she'd very likely not know. So you believe not one cluster in an Irish retail or airline environment. Does that not strike you as odd when you look at any other county.

What I find odd is you are making absolutely baseless claims and when asked for evidence you can't provide any. Honestly what is the reason to post this type of scaremongering crap, do you get off on it?

Widdensushi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Unless she's on the smt she'd very likely not know. So you believe not one cluster in an Irish retail or airline environment. Does that not strike you as odd when you look at any other county.

You claim to know shops that have closed due to outbreaks, why don't you name them?

cnocbui

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

It’s like the Iranian airlines can spread it but irish ones can’t.

Supermarkets are not going to go out of their way to say staff had it.
Staff aren’t going to go out of their way to say they had it as they may not be wanted back in work given the uncertainty around recovery time’s etc.

It's like Iranian planes crash a lot but Irish ones don't.

Maybe European airlines service the filters and aircon on their planes a bit more. Maybe the Iranians remove the filters rather than replace them due to costs, what with sanctions and hard currency.

Your link is behind a paywall for me.

drunkmonkey

Widdensushi wrote: »

You claim to know shops that have closed due to outbreaks, why don't you name them?

It's irrelevant, I'm be bashed as it's supposedly fake news, what does naming them do, it's still fake news as no journalist wrote a story about it.
I'm not trying to scaremonger, I'm just pointing out that people are nieave to believe that there was not one outbreak in an airline or retail environment during the whole pandemic.

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/06/supermarket-workers-deaths-coronavirus-/

It’s like the Iranian airlines can spread it but irish ones can’t.

Supermarkets are not going to go out of their way to say staff had it.
Staff aren’t going to go out of their way to say they had it as they may not be wanted back in work given the uncertainty around recovery time’s etc.

Supermarkets have said some of their staff contracted the virus, workers are entitled to the €350 payment if self isolating. A payment quite close to average pay in Supermarkets. Why are you fuelling the nonsense posted by the other poster who refuses to back up his claims?

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's irrelevant, I'm be bashed as it's supposedly fake news, what does naming them do, it's still fake news as no journalist wrote a story about it.
I'm not trying to scaremonger, I'm just pointing out that people are nieave to believe that there was not one outbreak in an airline or retail environment during the whole pandemic.

So you make a claim but it's irrelevant to offer proof. I offered to pass on details of these stores that you claimed closed due to an outbreak to a journalist friend of mine but you won't name them. The offer to PM the names still stands.
Your refusal to do so can only lead one to assume you're telling lies.

caveat emptor

cnocbui wrote: »

It's like Iranian planes crash a lot but Irish ones don't.

Maybe European airlines service the filters and aircon on their planes a bit more. Maybe the Iranians remove the filters rather than replace them due to costs, what with sanctions and hard currency.

Your link is behind a paywall for me.

Maybe baby.

It’s like there was no nosocomial transmission within healthcare settings. The HSE left the column blank. Now the majority of health care workers ‘probably’ got infected in a healthcare setting.

Nice bit of wiggle room there from a legal perspective. Tells us what we already knew really.
Despite people saying prove it , prove it , prove it.

New pathogen. people dead. 7 health care workers died. Pays to be cautious. I’m sure there will be a lovely retrospective enquiry with no powers that will conclude.” How were we to know?”
“There was no evidence”
“Legally we are covered”

speckle

caveat emptor wrote: »

This table up to the end of June is pretty shocking. I don't think PPE was adequate. Of course it was just all those people who got it who are at fault.
Even the current guidance doesn't acknowledge the potential for aerosol transmission. Whatever about fomite transmission. The report also states that 7 HCW died with Covid. No I know you'll say that they probably fell off their bike and happened to have Covid but still shocking in my mind.

No Profession in a hospital setting was unscathed. And most got it in a "health care setting"





Link: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19casesinhealthcareworkers/COVID-19_HCW_weekly_report_29062020_v1.0%20HPSC%20website%2001%2007%202020.pdf

I would love to know how,where and when(dates) the healthcare staff who got from travel got it. Where they one of the biggest seeders in that setting?

joeguevara

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What I find odd is you are making absolutely baseless claims and when asked for evidence you can't provide any. Honestly what is the reason to post this type of scaremongering crap, do you get off on it?

The only time I remember it happening was early on, on the Dunnes twitter feed it said that it had closed one of its shops for 24 hours in order to do a deep clean after one of its employees had been diagnosed with Covid. It did not say which shop and was a bit pointless really.

stephenjmcd

Garda commissioner happy enough after the weekend

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0706/1151582-coronavirus-ireland/

"Garda Commissioner Drew Harris has said most pubs have complied with Covid-19 restrictions after they reopened under Phase 3 of the lifting of restrictions.

He said gardaí visited 6,000 licensed premises over the weekend and the vast majority were in compliance.

Asked about scenes of crowds drinking outside pubs in Dublin city centre, he said that was a single incident and was dealt with as a public order situation."

drunkmonkey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you make a claim but it's irrelevant to offer proof. I offered to pass on details of these stores that you claimed closed due to an outbreak to a journalist friend of mine but you won't name them. The offer to PM the names still stands.
Your refusal to do so can only lead one to assume you're telling lies.

They only thing people will accept as proof is if a Journalist prints a story. No story was printed that does not mean something didn't happen.
So you can dismiss it as fake news, I don't care. I'd blame useless Journalism. It took the Irish Times 4 days to break a story after I reported it to them and posted it in a thread here before the news broke. Dismissed as fake news here though as usual, turns out I was correct.

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They only thing people will accept as proof is if a Journalist prints a story. No story was printed that does not mean something didn't happen.
So you can dismiss it as fake news, I don't care. I'd blame useless Journalism. It took the Irish Times 4 days to break a story after I reported it to them and posted it in a thread here before the news broke. Dismissed as fake news here though as usual, turns out I was correct.

Thanks so it's fair to assume you're telling lies. I offered you the opportunity to provide me names so I could pass on to my friend but you refuse to do so.
You should be ashamed of yourself, some people will believe your nonsense and be terrified of going to a shop.
Although it's comforting to see the usual fearmongerers are the only ones thanking you here.

Lollipop95

So very sad about Nick Cordero. Only 41 with a wife and one year old son - utterly heartbreaking. I'd been following his story and I was really hoping he'd make it. Over 90 days in ICU and having read about the various complications, he really did fight to stay alive. I can't believe how devastating this virus is. This story is a stark reminder that it's not just the elderly who are affected.

Renjit

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Supermarkets have said some of their staff contracted the virus, workers are entitled to the €350 payment if self isolating. A payment quite close to average pay in Supermarkets. Why are you fuelling the nonsense posted by the other poster who refuses to back up his claims?

PUP has its own disadvantages where I see people will just avoid it if they have mild symptoms. It's not much different than the scene near dublin pubs where social distancing is thrown out just for a pint.

Away With The Fairies

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Thanks so it's fair to assume you're telling lies. I offered you the opportunity to provide me names so I could pass on to my friend but you refuse to do so.
You should be ashamed of yourself, some people will believe your nonsense and be terrified of going to a shop.

Why do you want names in a newspaper? And ruin businesses with people avoiding the shops.

speckle

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Lidl stated 11 of their staff contracted the virus out of a workforce of 4500 all recovered. Name the shops that closed because of an outbreak. I have a friend who works for a newspaper in Galway. I'll pass on the details to her .

some small shops up country had cases this was reported in media but it was a very small number.

drunkmonkey

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Why do you want names in a newspaper? And ruin businesses with people avoiding the shops.

It makes him sound in control here that's all. Doesn't believe in Jesus either we can safely assume.
The ones I'm referring to the shops did close but this is a few months ago, it's not something would concern me now. It's not scaremongering I'm just pointing out it can and has happened.
I don't wear masks and I'm not afraid of shops.

caveat emptor

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Thanks so it's fair to assume you're telling lies. I offered you the opportunity to provide me names so I could pass on to my friend but you refuse to do so.
You should be ashamed of yourself, some people will believe your nonsense and be terrified of going to a shop.
Although it's comforting to see the usual fearmongerers are the only ones thanking you here.

Woo wooo wooo. That's a bit harsh. There is evidence to suggest. Ireland has been less than transparent about relative risk in some settings. Hospitals was one, airplanes another. Supermarkets are essential and there is a very large anti-panic -> shut your mouth faction cowing people to toe the party line.

I don't like bullies and calling someone a liar on a forum isn't on. I don't care your reasons for why you wanted everything back to normal.

Chill out. Read a book. or or or a scientific paper. You might learn something.

The general gist of your argument. In Ireland nobody got it in any of those venues. They got it on their own. It's their own fault and there's no proof so move on.

Objective: To explore clustered epidemic of COVID-19 in Liaocheng city and analyze infection status and chain of transmission of the cases. Methods: A joint investigation team of emergency response for COVID-19 epidemic by CDC professional workers of Liaocheng city and district at two levels on January 30, 2020. According to a indicator case from ZH supermarkets, close contacts and related subjects were tracked and screened on February 1, including ZH supermarket employees, family members having contact history with related cases during January 13-26, supermarket clients during January 16-30 and family members of related cases. an epidemiological investigation was carried on and their swab of nose /throat were collected and were sent to Liaocheng CDC laboratory, real-time fluorescence quantitative RT-PCR was used to detect nucleic acids of SARS-CoV-2. Results: a total of 8 437 people were screened during January 30 to February 9, 2020 (120 employees of supermarket, 93 family members, and 8224 clients of supermarket). The epidemic was caused by ZH cases and brought clustered cases in four families. A total 25 cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection, the total infection rate of subjects was 0.30% (25/8 437) with 22 confirmed cases (0.26%, 22/8 437) and 3 asymptomatic patients (0.04%, 3/8 437), asymptomatic patients accounted for 12.00% (3/25) of all infection cases. The infection rates of supermarket employees, family members of confirmed cases and supermarket clients were 9.17% (11/120), 12.90% (12/93) and 0.02% (2/8 224). Conclusions: This was a cluster epidemic caused by one imported case of COVID-19 in a supermarket of Liaocheng city. Prevention and control of cluster epidemic should be focused on chain of community transmission and family cluster cases. It must also be an attention for transmission risk of asymptomatic patients

https://europepmc.org/article/med/32340093

Plumbthedepths

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It makes him sound in control here that's all. Doesn't believe in Jesus either we can safely assume.
The ones I'm referring to the shops did close but this is a few months ago, it's not something would concern me now. It's not scaremongering I'm just pointing out it can and has happened.
I don't wear masks and I'm not afraid of shops.

Control? I asked you to back up your claims. You have repeatedly refused to do so. Lies hurt baby Jesus.

Away With The Fairies

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Control? I asked you to back up your claims. You have repeatedly refused to do so. Lies hurt baby Jesus.

You're asking them for names of shops and will be going to the newspapers. That's horrible behaviour, ruining shops and giving them a bad name due to no fault of their own. I'm glad they closed, they done something to prevent the spread of it. But naming shops isn't all that fair.

Igotadose

Spanish researchers finding that herd immunity might not be possible for Covid-19: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/spain-coronavirus-antibody-study-lancet-intl/index.html

Only 5% of their population have antibodies. Some more (harder to measure) might have no antibodies but have developed T-cells which fight the virus, rather than antibodies which prevent it infecting you. But, T-cells are hard to measure and though they may prevent you from becoming symptomatic, they might not prevent the spread. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53248660

Best you can do: wear a mask.

schmoo2k

Igotadose wrote: »

Spanish researchers finding that herd immunity might not be possible for Covid-19: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/health/spain-coronavirus-antibody-study-lancet-intl/index.html

Only 5% of their population have antibodies. Some more (harder to measure) might have no antibodies but have developed T-cells which fight the virus, rather than antibodies which prevent it infecting you. But, T-cells are hard to measure and though they may prevent you from becoming symptomatic, they might not prevent the spread. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53248660

Best you can do: wear a mask.

No - best you can do is keep distance, wash hands, keep environments well ventilated - while wearing a mask is also good, its only a part of the puzzle.

Away With The Fairies

schmoo2k wrote: »

No - best you can do is keep distance, wash hands, keep environments well ventilated - while wearing a mask is also good, its only a part of the puzzle.

Actually, you can keep your distance all you want, it doesn't stop aerosols lingering in the air. Wearing a mask is probably the most important part of the puzzle by keeping your germs to yourself.

is_that_so

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Actually, you can keep your distance all you want, it doesn't stop aerosols lingering in the air. Wearing a mask is probably the most important part of the puzzle by keeping your germs to yourself.

That's unproven except in lab tests, which were little more than proof of concept not reality.

Beasty

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not surprisingly one of the regular fearmongerers have thanked your post.

Discuss the topic, not other users

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1279895240825061378

Away With The Fairies

is_that_so wrote: »

That's unproven except in lab tests, which were little more than proof of concept not reality.

Yet 239 scientists have evidence of aerosol transmission

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.ecowatch.com/amp/airborne-coronavirus-who-science-2646347672

MD1990

352 new cases in the UK. 16 deaths.

Great to see that the UK are finally showing some real progress.

is_that_so

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Yet 239 scientists have evidence of aerosol transmission

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.ecowatch.com/amp/airborne-coronavirus-who-science-2646347672

You said it lingers, there is no proof of that. They are claiming that it does.

Igotadose

is_that_so wrote: »

That's unproven except in lab tests, which were little more than proof of concept not reality.

Japan is proof of concept that wearing a mask reduces the spread. It has 30 times the population of Ireland, fewer deaths due to Covid despite the disease being present longer and a MUCH higher population density.

I recommend distancing, hand washing and so on, but if I were limited to just one thing I could do, it would be wear a mask.

cnocbui

is_that_so wrote: »

That's unproven except in lab tests, which were little more than proof of concept not reality.

This was reality:

Sixty singers showed up. A greeter offered hand sanitizer at the door, and members refrained from the usual hugs and handshakes.

“It seemed like a normal rehearsal, except that choirs are huggy places,” Burdick recalled. “We were making music and trying to keep a certain distance between each other.”

After 2½ hours, the singers parted ways at 9 p.m.

Nearly three weeks later, 45 have been diagnosed with COVID-19 or ill with the symptoms, at least three have been hospitalized, and two are dead.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

is_that_so

cnocbui wrote: »

This was reality:



https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

And again no evidence of it "lingering". What you can say is a choir will be pretty close together.

is_that_so

Igotadose wrote: »

Japan is proof of concept that wearing a mask reduces the spread. It has 30 times the population of Ireland, fewer deaths due to Covid despite the disease being present longer and a MUCH higher population density.

I recommend distancing, hand washing and so on, but if I were limited to just one thing I could do, it would be wear a mask.

Eh? How did Japan get into this? That's just evidence of mask wearing in Japan.

Away With The Fairies

cnocbui wrote: »

This was reality:



https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

And none of them coughing or sneezing. So spread by breathing, talking, singing which produces the smaller aerosols that can linger.

ACitizenErased

Has there been any pub incidents outside of Dublin? I didn’t see any in Cork. Seems a bit strange that the Taoiseach wants to restrict pubs again when it’s a Dublin issue if there’s been no incidents outside of there.

caveat emptor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/05/24/grocery-workers-coronavirus-risks/?arc404=true

Seems cases have been found employees have been tested in US. Could see that defence being deployed. I'd hope that no-one go it but statistically pretty unlikely.

By the end of April, employees at a Walmart in Quincy, Mass., were panicking: Sick colleagues kept showing up at work. Other employees disappeared without explanation. The store’s longtime greeter was in the hospital and on a ventilator, dying of covid-19.

Local health officials grew alarmed as employees and their relatives reported sick co-workers. Shoppers called to complain about crowded conditions.

Under pressure from the health department, Walmart then closed the store for a week, cleaned it and offered testing to every worker. In all, 34 employees at that location tested positive. In Worcester, more than 80 employees were infected, health officials said.

“We have had consistent problems with Walmart,” wrote Ruth Jones, Quincy’s health commissioner, in an April 28 email to the Massachusetts attorney general’s office. “They have a cluster of Covid cases among employees and have not been cooperative in giving us contact information or in following proper quarantine and isolation guidelines.”


Fear of retaliation


As infections have spread within supermarkets, employees at two national chains said that stores retaliated against them for speaking up about safety or discussing sick colleagues.

When a Target manager informed Michael Branss in late April that a co-worker in Palatine, Ill., had tested positive for the coronavirus, Branss said the manager also told him not to talk about the case.

A few hours later, Branss said, he was called into the human resources office and reprimanded for talking about the sick employee. He was told the store was concerned about following federal privacy laws.

No reporting requirements

Gruffalux

I was looking at Israel because they are shutting bars and gyms again and I noticed they have almost 9 million pop in 22000 square miles, we have 5 million pop in 80000 square miles ( all approx.). They have recorded 30000 cases recorded, us 25000. Dont know if their testing is as good as us. They have had 300 deaths, us 1700 aprox. We have not done all that splendidly given the space we have.

An Ciarraioch

Down to 16 English deaths today.

is_that_so

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Has there been any pub incidents outside of Dublin? I didn’t see any in Cork. Seems a bit strange that the Taoiseach wants to restrict pubs again when it’s a Dublin issue if there’s been no incidents outside of there.

There was a quote from the Commissioner who said Dublin was treated as a public order incident otherwise it was generally good all round.

fritzelly

Igotadose wrote: »

Japan is proof of concept that wearing a mask reduces the spread. It has 30 times the population of Ireland, fewer deaths due to Covid despite the disease being present longer and a MUCH higher population density.

I recommend distancing, hand washing and so on, but if I were limited to just one thing I could do, it would be wear a mask.

If didn't exist in Japan til the Olympics were cancelled...