Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

UrbanFret

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

That's not my opinion though. Masks protect others. It doesn't protect the wearer.

The right mask most certainly protects the wearer.

Goldengirl

UrbanFret wrote: »

The right mask most certainly protects the wearer.

Yes if its N95 , or other hospital grade .
Most cloth / paper masks going around the general public might catch the blast of one sneeze then only fit for the bin !

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes if its N95 , or other hospital grade .
Most cloth / paper masks goi g around the general public might catch the blast of one sneeze then only fit for the bin !

That sounds a lot better than it going straight into you.

Away With The Fairies

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Handwashing doesn't protect you from aerosols in the air though.

For months, it was all about the mask wearer protecting others around them. When did this change?

Because they are more effective at preventing an infected person passing it on, than a healthy person from getting it. It’s not a one of the other thoigh. There are various degrees of effectiveness based on type of covering, how it is worn, hand hygiene etc.

No measure will prevent all infections however, bar everyone locking themselves at home for 4 weeks and shutting down all overseas travel in all circumstances. It’s about interrupting spread. Interrupt enough and cases won’t grow

ceadaoin.

Earlier, protesters stormed the parliament in Serbia over a planned lockdown due to be put in place in Belgrade. A bit extreme perhaps but it seems that lockdowns are a one shot one type of thing, there is just no appetite from the public for them to be repeated, anywhere

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-serbia-protests/demonstrators-storm-serbian-parliament-in-protest-over-lockdown-idUKKBN24836K

MickeyLeari

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Earlier, protesters stormed the parliament in Serbia over a planned lockdown due to be put in place in Belgrade. A bit extreme perhaps but it seems that lockdowns are a one shot one type of thing, there is just no appetite from the public for them to be repeated, anywhere

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-serbia-protests/demonstrators-storm-serbian-parliament-in-protest-over-lockdown-idUKKBN24836K

I think Ireland is well capable of doing another lockdown.

Hector Savage

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-07-07/catalonia-to-make-face-masks-mandatory-even-if-social-distancing-is-observed.html

Catalonia to make face masks mandatory even if social distancing is observed

Retarded, absolutely retarded, there are some growing outbreaks so they want to be seen doing something, now I can't walk down an empty street without a mask but can go to a packed terrace and have a few beers and spit all over my colleagues.

If they want to do something, do something about these packed terraces.

Hector Savage

caveat emptor wrote: »

Welcome!

Good question. Nodbody knows. Here's some highly scientific graphs though.

I'd say the authors were ripping the mickey offa themselves as they included 2022, surprised it doesn't go all the way to 2030 ....

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-confused-about-policing-of-pubs-survey-finds-1.4298711?mode=amp

"Ten days after the reopening of pubs, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) said its members still did not know if policing that reopening should be done under liquor licensing laws or health regulations.

The criticism by the sergeants and inspectors emerges at a time of growing concern over groups congregating on the street to socialise, especially in Dublin."

Concern over congregating on the streets to socialise. Oh dear. I feel we are at peak hysteria where socialising out in the open is demonised. The fear and panic over this virus is utterly pathetic and is dominated by keyboard warriors and those who have a disproportionately prominent column space and airtime in the media. Just **** off at this stage. Anti-relaxers and flat curvers are the same as flat earthers and anti-vaxxers to me at this point. Ignorant fools.

Edit: And just to note, from this article about the Gardai not knowing how to police the pub restrictions/guidance, it is clear that the supposed thousands of spot checks at the weekend was spoof. Fake news is being published and admitted to be published in order to keep up a level of fear in the public in Ireland about this virus. This is what annoys me, blatantly lying to the public to keep a level of fear among the public.

owlbethere

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Am I right in saying we are now the only country in Europe to allow people to enter from the Americas including US? I would of thought that once UK applied a travel ban from these areas for domestic areas that we would follow. From what I understand Belfast airport is no longer a point of entry but airports in the Republic remain so?

Is this true? This is very poor form how there's no quarantine for travellers from the US and other continents. This has to happen or all our efforts has been for nothing. It is our governments job to help us and protect us from this virus and if they are not up to the job, they need to go.

Rob A. Bank

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I read the article, quite long so perhaps I've missed something but basically they "believe person A0 was an asymptomatic carrier and that person B1.1 was infected by contact with surfaces in the elevator in the building where they both lived."

Or maybe they weren't. There's no way of proving it, they just think that's the case. There seems to be too many cooks in this broth to be making an attention grabbing headline that 70 people got it from getting into an elevator. And they aren't even talking about lingering aerosols either.

You certainly did "miss something" really important, which proves their thesis.

Perhaps if you read the abstract at the top of the page... "Genome sequences of the virus were distinct from viral genomes previously circulating in China."

In other words the virus was proven to have come from America and was different to the locally circulating virus, so they could accurately track it's spread through the 5 generations of spread (A, B, C, D and E)

The asymptomatic index case from America (A0) had no direct contact with the neighbour (B1.1), so the only way infection could have passed between them was because they used the elevator at different times.

70 people did NOT get it from getting into an elevator, the rest of the generations of spread occurred elsewhere and generated a significant cluster of >71 cases.

Perhaps our 'powers that be' should take note of this report and stop people from America coming here, before we have large clusters like this.

is_that_so

owlbethere wrote: »

Is this true? This is very poor form ho there's no quarantine for travellers from the US and other continents. This has to happen or all our efforts has been for nothing. It is our governments job to help us and protect us from this virus and if they are not up to the job, they need to go.

And yet not a whole lot of evidence of us being hit with a surge. One thing people clearly have not adjusted to mentally is the need to live with this. It's really not an either or scenario of hiding from it or just charging out to face it. Even when it passes the mental health damage could end up being far more extreme.

is_that_so

caveat emptor wrote: »

Welcome!

Good question. Nodbody knows. Here's some highly scientific graphs though.

You really wonder who this kind of thing benefits, the researchers showing their work/guesswork with an eye on funding, the newspapers who really can't do any science responsibly or all the poor saps looking at this kind of piece and imagining 3 years of their life going down the drain.

timsey tiger

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Looks like USA might get close to a 1000 deaths today, big jump, from the 200-300 over last while.

I'm hoping that this is a correction from weekend, lows and not an upwards trend in deaths from the higher levels of new infections. This weekend low seems to be three days vs normal two, so hopefully just a bigger post weekend correction. Maybe July 4 has something to do with the extra day.

stephenjmcd

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-confused-about-policing-of-pubs-survey-finds-1.4298711?mode=amp

"Ten days after the reopening of pubs, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (AGSI) said its members still did not know if policing that reopening should be done under liquor licensing laws or health regulations.

The criticism by the sergeants and inspectors emerges at a time of growing concern over groups congregating on the street to socialise, especially in Dublin."

Concern over congregating on the streets to socialise. Oh dear. I feel we are at peak hysteria where socialising out in the open is demonised. The fear and panic over this virus is utterly pathetic and is dominated by keyboard warriors and those who have a disproportionately prominent column space and airtime in the media. Just **** off at this stage. Anti-relaxers and flat curvers are the same as flat earthers and anti-vaxxers to me at this point. Ignorant fools.

Edit: And just to note, from this article about the Gardai not knowing how to police the pub restrictions/guidance, it is clear that the supposed thousands of spot checks at the weekend was spoof. Fake news is being published and admitted to be published in order to keep up a level of fear in the public in Ireland about this virus. This is what annoys me, blatantly lying to the public to keep a level of fear among the public.

Its confusing but straight forward in other parts.

Groups in the street is covered under public order act thats straight forward.

The checking of licensed premises not so straightforward because there literally isn't anything they can use when they enter a premises, there's no legislation underpinning any of the guidelines in terms of health act that hospitality businesses have to abide by, likewise for other industries too. Its an absolute mess.

They can put in a bad word against a licence renewal under the licencing laws but the chances of someone being denied a license are tiny.

The statement last week said files will be sent to the DPP on premises caught breaching guidelines, pointless theres no legal basis for a prosecution.

I feel sorry for the Gardaí, they're just getting everything thrown at them, check if people are isolating, check the licenced premises, there's not a hope in hell they've the man power for it with the other everyday work

Rob A. Bank

owlbethere wrote: »

Is this true? This is very poor form ho there's no quarantine for travellers from the US and other continents. This has to happen or all our efforts has been for nothing. It is our governments job to help us and protect us from this virus and if they are not up to the job, they need to go.

It is crazy that all travellers have to do is fill out a form at the airport saying where they will be 'self isolating' for 14 days.

Half of the people who filled out the form recently did not answer their phones when contacted !

We have to wait until the 20th for the 'green list' but what we really need urgently is a 'RED LIST' of countries where the infection is rising or out of control. 20 minutes on Worldometer is all that is needed to generate a list of countries for this red list, ie. we do not want those people landing here.

A guy coming from Romania was interviewed at the airport recently said he had to isolate for 14 days when he went back home. The police visited him every day to make sure he was actually isolating...

If Romania can do it , so can we.

owlbethere

is_that_so wrote: »

And yet not a whole lot of evidence of us being hit with a surge. One thing people clearly have not adjusted to mentally is the need to live with this. It's really not an either or scenario of hiding from it or just charging out to face it. Even when it passes the mental health damage could end up being far more extreme.

I don't care. Our government is in the position of helping us and by having no quarantine measures they are setting us up for failure. The air bridges to other European countries that have this under control makes sense but we need to have quarantine for people coming in from other continents.

seamus

is_that_so wrote: »

You really wonder who this kind of thing benefits, the researchers showing their work/guesswork with an eye on funding, the newspapers who really can't do any science responsibly or all the poor saps looking at this kind of piece and imagining 3 years of their life going down the drain.

Paper never refused ink.

But ultimately people need to be able to forward-plan. People want to know what's in store for them. So even if it's just a series of sketched possibilities, it's better than a shoulder shrug. So I wouldn't go straight to the cynical. Someone asked a researcher what's probably going to happen, and the researcher responded.

Rob A. Bank

Our prison service did a phenomenal job with zero prisoners getting infected during the pandemic.

It is not the same elsewhere... a prison sentence is becoming a death sentence for some.

U.S. Prison Inmate Coronavirus Cases Soar Past 50,000

At least 616 inmates have died, and among staff, more than 11,180 cases of coronavirus have been reported, including 43 deaths.

Not surprising with scenes like this from the LA county jail...



But it is better than El Salvador, where they obviously believe in masks but not in social distancing !



:eek:

Thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

caveat emptor

is_that_so wrote: »

You really wonder who this kind of thing benefits, the researchers showing their work/guesswork with an eye on funding, the newspapers who really can't do any science responsibly or all the poor saps looking at this kind of piece and imagining 3 years of their life going down the drain.

I'd say put the tinfoil hat away and look at other pandemics (spoiler, they came and went in waves). There is no way of knowing.

Best case scenario, public health measures adopted + contact tracing contains it.

Worst Case we do what Australia did. Congratulate ourselves on how great we were at banishing the virus (while it was still circulating) then have to resort to locking people in their home.

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Our prison service did a phenomenal job with zero prisoners getting infected during the pandemic.

It is not the same elsewhere... a prison sentence is becoming a death sentence for some.

U.S. Prison Inmate Coronavirus Cases Soar Past 50,000

At least 616 inmates have died, and among staff, more than 11,180 cases of coronavirus have been reported, including 43 deaths.

Not surprising with scenes like this from the LA county jail...



But it is better than El Salvador, where they obviously believe in masks but not in social distancing !



:eek:

Thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

Or maybe don't commit a crime and get sent to prison.

D.Q

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Our prison service did a phenomenal job with zero prisoners getting infected during the pandemic.



U.S. Prison Inmate Coronavirus Cases Soar Past 50,000

At least 616 inmates have died, and among staff, more than 11,180 cases of coronavirus have been reported, including 43 deaths.

Not surprising with scenes like this from the LA county jail...




:eek:

Thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

US prisons hold almost 2.3 million people.

0.02% of american prisoners have died from Covid 19.

spockety

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Or maybe don't commit a crime and get sent to prison.

The guy 2nd from left on the bottom of the El Salvador picture didn't pay his TV License.

D.Q

That El Salvador picture is absolutely insane. Like a scene from Baraka

Boggles

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Earlier, protesters stormed the parliament in Serbia over a planned lockdown due to be put in place in Belgrade. A bit extreme perhaps but it seems that lockdowns are a one shot one type of thing, there is just no appetite from the public for them to be repeated, anywhere

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-serbia-protests/demonstrators-storm-serbian-parliament-in-protest-over-lockdown-idUKKBN24836K

I wouldn't be gauging what is going on in Serbia and trying to apply that as a template elsewhere.

They have been protesting over there for nearly 2 years, it's fúck all to do with the virus and all to do with opposition politics and the absolute hatred for the president.

Boggles

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Or maybe don't commit a crime and get sent to prison.

A lot of people jail in America have not committed a crime or at least been found guilty of one, they just can't afford the bail.

caveat emptor

Victoria's second lockdown acknowledged to be stricter than first. Going to be 6 weeks in primary residence. No country home escapes. 24 healthcare workers test positive.

With a record 191 new cases for the state announced by the premier on Tuesday and 134 further cases announced on Wednesday, the Melbourne metropolitan area will go back under lockdown from midnight, with people only allowed outside their homes for essential services, work, school and childcare. The Victorian premier, Daniel Andrews, acknowledged that as the cases increased, contact tracing was becoming increasingly difficult, which in part had prompted the lockdown.

Rob A. Bank

D.Q wrote: »

US prisons hold almost 2.3 million people.

0.02% of american prisoners have died from Covid 19.

So far...

ZX7R

is_that_so wrote: »

And yet not a whole lot of evidence of us being hit with a surge. One thing people clearly have not adjusted to mentally is the need to live with this. It's really not an either or scenario of hiding from it or just charging out to face it. Even when it passes the mental health damage could end up being far more extreme.

You have made an extremely valid point.
People need to learn to live with it.
I would go as far as saying that the government should promote it.
The main problem is the Media ,they go out of there way to promote fear.

Plumbthedepths

spockety wrote: »

The guy 2nd from left on the bottom of the El Salvador picture didn't pay his TV License.

Yeah but I heard he killed the TV licence inspector, by coughing on him.

caveat emptor

Speaking of patting people on the back. That really is a success obviously hasn't been tested in action but great launch. Being picked up by media globally as being most successful tracing app in the world. Well done to all involved. 1 million downloads in 24 hours is crazy.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ireland/irish-covid-19-tracing-app-nears-1-million-downloads-in-24-hours-idUKKBN24912D?il=0

DUBLIN (Reuters) - Ireland expects 1 million people to have downloaded a voluntary app to trace contacts of COVID-19 patients within 24 hours of its formal launch, which its health service operator said would make it the most successful launch in the world.

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1280760850840723457?s=20

Plumbthedepths

caveat emptor wrote: »

Speaking of patting people on the back. That really is a success obviously hasn't been tested in action but great launch. Being picked up by media globally as being most successful tracing app in the world. Well done to all involved. 1 million downloads in 24 hours is crazy.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ireland/irish-covid-19-tracing-app-nears-1-million-downloads-in-24-hours-idUKKBN24912D?il=0




https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1280760850840723457?s=20

Just after looking at the app now on my phone, it looks like the I million mark has been achieved . That's assuming the graph is accurate.

caveat emptor

Someone needs to explain to people what's being done to manage this risk. It's on a different scale to other countries and if flights are continuing we need to know that no seeding event could occur. Situation is getting worse and is the worst since pandemic began and is getting worse. Seriously needs to be looked at in a way so as not to offend our US cousins / the petulant one.

Widdensushi

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Or maybe don't commit a crime and get sent to prison.

Sure how else are you to get trained and make the necessary contacts to improve at crime

owlbethere

ZX7R wrote: »

You have made an extremely valid point.
People need to learn to live with it.
I would go as far as saying that the government should promote it.
The main problem is the Media ,they go out of there way to promote fear.

We can learn to live with it while being sensible. The airbridges between the other European countries who have the virus under control is sensible. Allowing people from other continents in without quarantine especially America where they did sweet fcuk all to control the virus is not sensible.

stephenjmcd

owlbethere wrote: »

We can learn to live with it while being sensible. The airbridges between the other European countries who have the virus under control is sensible. Allowing people from other continents in without quarantine especially America where they did sweet fcuk all to control the virus is not sensible.

I dont think anyone argues that its not sensible. We should be open to most of Europe and like the rest of Europe not allowing in countries that are on the European no entry list.

mandrake04

caveat emptor wrote: »

Someone needs to explain to people what's being done to manage this risk. It's on a different scale to other countries and if flights are continuing we need to know that no seeding event could occur. Situation is getting worse and is the worst since pandemic began and is getting worse. Seriously needs to be looked at in a way so as not to offend our US cousins / the petulant one.

Its grand, the state of the art HEPA filters on planes suck the virus from your body there's is absolutely no risk from people travelling from infected countries...absolutely none.

biko

Interesting titbit I hadn't heard before

[Germany] saw its first outbreak in January at the headquarters of Webasto, an automotive supplier near Munich.
The source was quickly identified as a Chinese employee who had been attending in-house workshops there.

Some 10 employees ended up getting infected — one after using a salt shaker handed to him by a colleague with the virus.
After extensive detective work, those with coronavirus were swiftly isolated, their friends and relatives found and alerted.

https://www.ft.com/content/cc1f650a-91c0-4e1f-b990-ee8ceb5339ea

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I dont think anyone argues that its not sensible. We should be open to most of Europe and like the rest of Europe not allowing in countries that are on the European no entry list.

The easiest way to stop people traveling from America cancel all holiday Visa's

shinzon

caveat emptor wrote: »

Speaking of patting people on the back. That really is a success obviously hasn't been tested in action but great launch. Being picked up by media globally as being most successful tracing app in the world. Well done to all involved. 1 million downloads in 24 hours is crazy.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ireland/irish-covid-19-tracing-app-nears-1-million-downloads-in-24-hours-idUKKBN24912D?il=0




https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1280760850840723457?s=20

Except for those who want to use it but cant. I know Shin get a new phone get a new phone

Shin

ZX7R

biko wrote: »

Interesting titbit I hadn't heard before


https://www.ft.com/content/cc1f650a-91c0-4e1f-b990-ee8ceb5339ea

That is where simple hand hygiene comes into play

Away With The Fairies

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I dont think anyone argues that its not sensible. We should be open to most of Europe and like the rest of Europe not allowing in countries that are on the European no entry list.

How long will Europe let us in if we continue to let the Americans in?

What Username Guidelines

shinzon wrote: »

Except for those who want to use it but cant. I know Shin get a new phone get a new phone

Shin

Just get a new phone Shin

Rob A. Bank

First Johnson, now Bolsonaro... Another ignorant fu*kwit right wing populist pays the price for minimizing the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic.

And their fanboy minimizers here seem to be reduced to labeling anything and everything that contradicts their crazy 'herd immunity' pipe dream as 'fear mongering' or doom mongering.

It's getting tiresome at this stage.

I guess that bloated putrid orange low-life in the white house will be tested more often now... as he watches yet another of his idiot friends battle the virus.

https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/11fad0f/2147483647/resize/1200x%3E/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fbd%2Fad%2F0494e3f34811b5543911153a38c3%2Fsb051820dapc.jpg

I don't see how mainland EU can allow flights from Ireland if Ireland lets flights in from America. This would be a fatal precedent to set with the end of the Brexit transition period approaching and the UK doing little to secure any sort of Northern Ireland protocol. If it becomes even remotely normal that Ireland is outside the mainland, it'll be far easier to put checks on goods between Ireland and mainland EU and then Ireland is completely ruined.

For some American tourists who will cause a surge in cases.

CalamariFritti

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I think Ireland is well capable of doing another lockdown.

I well believe it. Not the least because it would be the most stupid thing to do.

is_that_so

seamus wrote: »

Paper never refused ink.

But ultimately people need to be able to forward-plan. People want to know what's in store for them. So even if it's just a series of sketched possibilities, it's better than a shoulder shrug. So I wouldn't go straight to the cynical. Someone asked a researcher what's probably going to happen, and the researcher responded.

Yep just as a researcher never refused funding for the latest fad. Anyone armed with a modicum of statistical knowledge, data modelling skills and a blob of data can produce a model. The trouble with all of these models, as we know, is having enough current data. They aren't anyway useful for any authority for planning as they stand but they are great for rattling large swathes of the population.

Multipass

biko wrote: »

Interesting titbit I hadn't heard before


https://www.ft.com/content/cc1f650a-91c0-4e1f-b990-ee8ceb5339ea

More likely that he breathed it in from sitting beside this guy at lunch.

Away With The Fairies

biko wrote: »

Interesting titbit I hadn't heard before


https://www.ft.com/content/cc1f650a-91c0-4e1f-b990-ee8ceb5339ea

I don't know, If people are sitting down to lunch or dinner with a work colleague that was infected and they handed you the salt shaker, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the salt shaker that infected people. It was the infected colleague and being close to each other.

Snickers Man

Taking my figures from the Worldometers website, it is clear that sometime in the next 24 hours, the USA (pop: 331m] will overtake the entire 27 countries of the EU [pop: 445m] in terms of the number of Covid related deaths.

At the time of writing, the EU 27 has a total of 134,011 reported Covid related deaths. The USA has just 20 fewer, 133,991.

The figures might have changed by the time you read this as numbers are reported sporadically and the site is continuously updated as I understand it.

But the US numbers have been rising steadily and they surpassed the EU 27 in terms of recorded cases several weeks ago. For the most part, the deaths in EU countries have flattened off, although that doesn't automatically imply there will be no "resurgence", especially as restrictions are eased.

I think back wistfully to historian Niall Ferguson (no pinko liberal leftie he) writing in the Sunday Times a few months ago that Trump's gamble with refusing to lock down sooner was that there would "only" be 60,000 or so US deaths as a result of the pandemic. Roughly the same number as succumb to "normal" flu in a given year.

Any more than that and he would be in serious trouble come election time and his gamble would have been seen to fail.

America is already at more than double that figure and it's only likely to get a lot worse.

But then, it's all the WHO's fault.......