Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Hector Savage

Snickers Man wrote: »

Taking my figures from the Worldometers website, it is clear that sometime in the next 24 hours, the USA (pop: 331m] will overtake the entire 27 countries of the EU [pop: 445m] in terms of the number of Covid related deaths.

At the time of writing, the EU 27 has a total of 134,011 reported Covid related deaths. The USA has just 20 fewer, 133,991.

The figures might have changed by the time you read this as numbers are reported sporadically and the site is continuously as I understand it.

But the US numbers have been rising steadily and they surpassed the EU 27 in terms of recorded cases several weeks ago. For the most part, the deaths in EU countries have flattened off, although that doesn't automatically imply there will be no "resurgence", especially as restrictions are eased.

I think back wistfully to historian Niall Ferguson (no pinko liberal leftie he) writing in the Sunday Times a few months ago that Trump's gamble with refusing to lock down sooner was that there would "only" be 60,000 or so US deaths as a result of the pandemic. Roughly the same number as succumb to "normal" flu in a given year.

Any more than that and he would be in serious trouble come election time and his gamble would have been seen to fail.

America is already at more than double that figure and it's only likely to get a lot worse.

But then, it's all the WHO's fault.......

No, it's all China's fault !

China that tried to cover it up and knew how serious it was, blocked internal travel yet allowed international knowing it would infect the world.


CHINA did this!! and never forget that.

speckle

podgeandrodge wrote: »

I read the article, quite long so perhaps I've missed something but basically they "believe person A0 was an asymptomatic carrier and that person B1.1 was infected by contact with surfaces in the elevator in the building where they both lived."

Or maybe they weren't. There's no way of proving it, they just think that's the case. There seems to be too many cooks in this broth to be making an attention grabbing headline that 70 people got it from getting into an elevator. And they aren't even talking about lingering aerosols either.


On March 19, 2020, case-patient A0 returned to Heilongjiang Province from the United States; she was asked to quarantine at home. She lived alone during her stay in Heilongjiang Province. She had negative SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acid and serum antibody tests on March 31 and April 3.

Patient B1.1 was the downstairs neighbor of case-patient A0. They used the same elevator in the building but not at the same time and did not have close contact otherwise. On March 26, B1.1’s mother, B2.2, and her mother’s boyfriend, B2.3, visited and stayed in B1.1’s home all night. On March 29, B2.2 and B2.3 attended a party with patient C1.1 and his sons, C1.2 and C1.3.

On April 2, C1.1 suffered a stroke and was admitted to hospital 1. His sons, C1.2 and C1.3, cared for him in ward area 1 of the hospital. Patient C1.1 shared the same clinical team and items, such as a microwave, with other patients in the ward. On April 6, patient C1.1 was transferred to hospital 2 because of fever; C1.2 and C1.3 accompanied him.

On April 7, patient B2.3 first noted symptoms of COVID-19. He tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 on April 9, the first confirmed case in this cluster. His close contacts, B1.1, B2.1, B2.2, and C1.1, subsequently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 on April 9 or 10. Patient C1.1 was quarantined in hospital 2 when he tested positive on April 9. The epidemiologic investigation showed that none of these 5 persons had a history of travel or residence in affected areas with sustained transmission of SARS-CoV-2 during the 14 days before diagnosis, suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 came from contact with other persons.

During C1.1’s admission at hospital 1, a total of 28 other persons, D1.1–BB1.1, were infected with SARS-CoV-2 in ward area 1. Because all patients in the ward could ambulate, 4 persons, CC1.1, DD1.1, EE1.1, and FF1.1, were infected in other wards and in the computed tomography room of hospital 1. Among hospital 1 staff, 5 nurses and 1 doctor were infected. In hospital 2, another 20 persons, GG1.1–VV1.1, were infected in the ward where C1.1 stayed (Figure).

On April 9, investigators also learned that A0, B1.1’s neighbor, had returned on March 19 from the United States, where COVID-19 cases had been detected. Investigators performed SARS-CoV-2 serum antibody tests on A0 on April 10 and 11. SARS-CoV-2 serum IgM was negative but IgG was positive, indicating that A0 was previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 (5,6). Therefore, we believe A0 was an asymptomatic carrier (7,8) and that B1.1 was infected by contact with surfaces in the elevator in the building where they both lived (9). Other residents in A0’s building tested negative for SARS-CoV-2 nucleic acids and serum antibodies.

I agree with you that is a weak case at the moment. When you look in deep to the time line and test results. Nothing to say the party groups didnt get that particular strain elsewhere from another reintroduction and brought it into the apartment block and gave it to A0. It looks like they took the easy answer. They still could be correct but they would have to trace A0's acquirement of the virus. I noted that they didnt include the sequencing data with the paper.

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1280840645624635392

Plumbthedepths

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1280840645624635392

Guess he missed what is happening in Melbourne.

Non solum non ambulabit

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Guess he missed what is happening in Melbourne.

Did imported cases not cause the outbreak in Melbourne?

Just noticed on Newstalk that the public information announcement re. travel no longer uses the word 'quarantine' or 'isolate', but instead states that incoming travellers, including those returning from holiday, "should limit their movements for 14 days".

Its the first time I heard that and seems to represent quite a substantial watering down of the directive for arrivals into Ireland

is_that_so

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Did imported cases not cause the outbreak in Melbourne?

Some hanky panky and a lighter too!

speckle

Deleted User wrote: »

Just noticed on Newstalk that the public information announcement re. travel no longer uses the word 'quarantine' or 'isolate', but instead states that incoming travellers, including those returning from holiday, "should limit their movements for 14 days".

Its the first time I heard that and seems to represent quite a substantial watering down of the directive for arrivals into Ireland

not watered down here still says self isolate
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html


Somebody has messed up.. Need to get their act together.

Snickers Man

Hector Savage wrote: »

No, it's all China's fault !

China that tried to cover it up and knew how serious it was, blocked internal travel yet allowed international knowing it would infect the world.


CHINA did this!! and never forget that.

Meh. Yeah probably, but whatcha gonna do?

What's the "Leader of the Free World" gonna do?

Nothing to China, it would seem. Instead he is blaming it on the WHO and in retaliation, the USA is rescinding its membership--at least for as long as Trump is in power. Biden has already said he would reverse this move on his first day in office, should he get in.

Whoever was at fault, America got every bit as much warning as the European countries did but chose to belittle the threat and put it down to a hoax, you know, like global warming/climate change.

The Europeans have locked down (for the most part) and sucked it up. We'll see how it all pans out in the end. At the moment, the US don't seem to be handling it at all as well as they might have.

Plumbthedepths

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Did imported cases not cause the outbreak in Melbourne?

Not denying it but unless an island such as Australia locks down forever there will be cases going forward. Covid isn't going anywhere until a vaccine is found. Not keeping it zipped caused a few problems aswell.

Plumbthedepths

speckle wrote: »

not wstered down here still says self isolate
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html


Somebody has messed up.. Need to get their act together.

You will be 'asked to self isolate' no consequences if you don't.

timsey tiger

Hector Savage wrote: »

No, it's all China's fault !

China that tried to cover it up and knew how serious it was, blocked internal travel yet allowed international knowing it would infect the world.


CHINA did this!! and never forget that.

This kind of makes you sound like a three year old, if you are in fact three, well done on the reading and writing.

But remember in life and leadership, it's not the hand we are dealt that matters, but how we play it.

So, stop blaming your favourite boogie man and get on with being part of the solution. Don't listen to the voices that tell you that this doesn't have to cost you anything, because they are lying to you.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will be 'asked to self isolate' no consequences if you don't.

Ultimately, there are if you or a close contact contract it.

wazzer1

Are GP/HSE contacting only if positive or negative as well?

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

Ultimately, there are if you or a close contact contract it.

Since the virus has not been eliminated in Ireland and not possible to do so at present, it's also likely I could contract it here. Possibly from all those American or English visitors arriving here.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Just noticed on Newstalk that the public information announcement re. travel no longer uses the word 'quarantine' or 'isolate', but instead states that incoming travellers, including those returning from holiday, "should limit their movements for 14 days".

Its the first time I heard that and seems to represent quite a substantial watering down of the directive for arrivals into Ireland

As a matter of interest, is this information announcement from NewsTalk or an official government ad?

Newstalk would be very much on the conservative, "save the economy" end of the spectrum, so it would be interesting to see if this is something they've rolled with alone.

caveat emptor

Wow UK giving 50% off eating out up to £10 per head.
People have to be incentivised to go forth and eat.
Good idea I think as it will lead to restaurants having to employ more people and get back to normal.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1280834525942210561?s=20

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1280837441507786755?s=20

is_that_so

wazzer1 wrote: »

Are GP/HSE contacting only if positive or negative as well?

I think that is all automated now and sent by text.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is this information announcement from NewsTalk or an official government ad?

Newstalk would be very much on the conservative, "save the economy" end of the spectrum, so it would be interesting to see if this is something they've rolled with alone.

I don’t know. It’s not clear. I can’t remember whether it stated that it was an official communication from the government or HSE, but the sense I got when I heard it was that it was official. And that the guidance was now ‘to limit your movement’.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Since the virus has not been eliminated in Ireland and not possible to do so at present, it's also likely I could contract it here. Possibly from all those American or English visitors arriving here.

Or in Naples!

podgeandrodge

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Our prison service did a phenomenal job with zero prisoners getting infected during the pandemic.

It is not the same elsewhere... a prison sentence is becoming a death sentence for some.

U.S. Prison Inmate Coronavirus Cases Soar Past 50,000

At least 616 inmates have died, and among staff, more than 11,180 cases of coronavirus have been reported, including 43 deaths.

Not surprising with scenes like this from the LA county jail...



But it is better than El Salvador, where they obviously believe in masks but not in social distancing !



:eek:

Thank your lucky stars you live in a civilized country.

A lot of them appear to deserve much of what they get! But a little harsher treatment in Irish jails might be worthwhile!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/outrage-as-el-salvador-lines-up-semi-naked-prisoners-for-photos-1.4239887

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

Or in Naples!

No different than here if one heeds the medical advice. SD, hand hygiene etc.

An Ciarraioch

NI doing the best on these islands to eliminate the virus - no deaths again today.

Ficheall

Party in a house in our estate last night with about forty students (I'm guessing - right age). Smh.

Plumbthedepths

Ficheall wrote: »

Party in a house in our estate last night with about forty students (I'm guessing - right age). Smh.

National lockdown a foregone conclusion ,waves 2 and 3 on the way so.

Professor Moriarty

podgeandrodge wrote: »

A lot of them appear to deserve much of what they get! But a little harsher treatment in Irish jails might be worthwhile!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/outrage-as-el-salvador-lines-up-semi-naked-prisoners-for-photos-1.4239887

I wonder how many of them had any chance of a life different the one they were born into. Regardless, that's inhuman.

speckle

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t know. It’s not clear. I can’t remember whether it stated that it was an official communication from the government or HSE, but the sense I got when I heard it was that it was official. And that the guidance was now ‘to limit your movement’.

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

is_that_so

speckle wrote: »

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

I can see lawyers salivating about the money they could get from that idea!

stephenjmcd

speckle wrote: »

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

Just an FYI, The fine and sentance currenty are only the possible penalties if you dont fill in the form. There's no legal penalty for not isolating but there is the moral one if someone caught it from you.

Edit: oh are you suggesting what the penalties could be for not self isolating, if so I thought you were saying what the current penalties are. I may have misread the post

Plumbthedepths

speckle wrote: »

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

This is the present advice I could find on the HSE site. Where did you find yours if I may ask?


https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

speckle

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Just an FYI, The fine and sentance currenty are only the possible penalties if you dont fill in the form. There's no legal penalty for not isolating but there is the moral one if someone caught it from you.

Edit: oh are you suggesting what the penalties could be for not self isolating, if so I thought you were saying what the current penalties are. I may have misread the post

Offences and penalties
The following offences are punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a
term not exceeding 6 months, or both.
• It is an offence not to complete this form in the manner specified.
• It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form.
• It is an offence not to provide an update if any of the information in section 3 of the
form changes in the next 14 days or period of stay, whichever is the shorter.
• It is an offence to fail to give an officer who requests it information required to verify
the details on this form.
• In addition to these offences, a member of An Garda Síochána may direct a person who
is not complying with the requirements in respect of this form to so comply. Failing to
comply with that direction is an offence for which you may be arrested.
• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed
may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the
offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or
address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

speckle

speckle wrote: »

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

????

Is this your idea of what you'd like to happen? Or some policy proposal that you've seen?

Edit: oh okay, its just about the form filling

speckle

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This is the present advice I could find on the HSE site. Where did you find yours if I may ask?


https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

No problem. Further down the page is the form you have to fill out. It is a pdf thete.

Plumbthedepths

speckle wrote: »

No problem. Further down the page is the form you have to fill out. It is a pdf thete.

Oh grand I thought I missed something else. It's just the form that's mandatory to fill out and a pinky promise to isolate.

podgeandrodge

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I wonder how many of them had any chance of a life different the one they were born into. Regardless, that's inhuman.

Hmm, the 2 main gangs are known to be vicious, and reports say the population in general supports measures taken against them. They are a pack of murderers and rapists. The pics shown were a 24 hour lockdown because of an outbreak of violence from them seemingly. I wouldn't lose much sleep.

Ficheall

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

National lockdown a foregone conclusion ,waves 2 and 3 on the way so.

Is this the idea now, to reply to every negative comment with an "oh, we're all doomed so LOLOLOL"?
Is the equivalent tactic to post "oh, the virus is defeated so LOLOLOL" every time someone posts something positive?
Is that the standard we're at for the discussion?



I know the houseparty is unlikely to lead to an unmanageable increase in cases, but that doesn't mean the partygoers were not selfish (even aside from waking the neighbourhood), and that that type of self-centred behaviour could prove problematic if/when the cases start rising again due to importation, even if it doesn't in this particular case.

speckle

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Oh grand I thought I missed something else. It's just the form that's mandatory to fill out and a pinky promise to isolate.

I agreeis just a pinky promise to someone who intends to do the opposite anyway especially if not followed up as the offences and policies state that I copied from the form and posted above.

Professor Moriarty

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Hmm, the 2 main gangs are known to be vicious, and reports say the population in general supports measures taken against them. They are a pack of murderers and rapists. The pics shown were a 24 hour lockdown because of an outbreak of violence from them seemingly. I wouldn't lose much sleep.

So just dump the laws of the land? Then ensure that the virus spreads exponentially throughout the prison population? That's inhuman.

AdamD

speckle wrote: »

A 2500 euro fine or up to 6 months jail if caught. Potentially a life sentence if you or others are unlucky to be in the high risk group and you dont self isolate and have it and cant be contacted. But you are correct in saying wont do much unless actually enforced consistantly.

Yeah we don't live in a society where we can pass laws like that, thankfully.

sideswipe

Ficheall wrote: »

Party in a house in our estate last night with about forty students (I'm guessing - right age). Smh.

They could have fit another 10 in and still been within guidelines.

Ficheall

sideswipe wrote: »

They could have fit another 10 in and still been within guidelines.

Well, wouldn't be too sure about the

"Visits/gatherings should be kept to a size to allow for physical distancing of 2 metres and for adequate ventilation if they are taking place indoors."
"You are asked to keep a daily log of people you meet for contact tracing purposes."
"Spontaneous mass gatherings such as parties, gatherings, demonstrations and so on are not recommended at this time."
"Visitors should not visit you if they are unwell, should keep at a 2 metre distance, wash their hands for at least 20 seconds on arrival and should wear face coverings."
"ideally wear a face covering, strictly adhere to the 2 metres physical (social) distancing measures"
bits, but agreed on the fewer than 50 people point.

speckle

wazzer1 wrote: »

Are GP/HSE contacting only if positive or negative as well?

Think you will find that information here. If I am reading it right if positive a call.
Four possible results

• SARS CoV 2 RNA detected
• SARS CoV 2 RNA not detected
• Indeterminate result
• Invalid/inhibitory result

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/testing/test-results.html

yerwanthere123

Why is Israel being hit so badly right now? I thought they had been doing well initially.

speckle

AdamD wrote: »

Yeah we don't live in a society where we can pass laws like that, thankfully.

Just to clarify the life sentence is potentially self imposed if you get ill... not part of the justice system here. Thankfully we are not like North Korea.

speckle

speckle wrote: »

I agreeis just a pinky promise to someone who intends to do the opposite anyway especially if not followed up as the offences and policies state that I copied from the form and posted above.

I think that if you’re an American tourist, and you state on the form that you’re staying in the Hilton in kilmainham and after a day or two you head to the radisson in salthill for a week you could get fined £2500, not for failure to self isolate, but for failure to give accurate information.

If you’re staying at home and just heading out for jollies every day, there’s nothing that can be done

Strazdas

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Hmm, the 2 main gangs are known to be vicious, and reports say the population in general supports measures taken against them. They are a pack of murderers and rapists. The pics shown were a 24 hour lockdown because of an outbreak of violence from them seemingly. I wouldn't lose much sleep.

That looks like a photo from a Nazi concentration camp. There must be better ways of handling the situation than that.

fr336

Warning of serious brain disorders in people with mild coronavirus symptoms

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

speckle

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that if you’re an American tourist, and you state on the form that you’re staying in the Hilton in kilmainham and after a day or two you head to the radisson in salthill for a week you could get fined £2500, not for failure to self isolate, but for failure to give accurate information.

If you’re staying at home and just heading out for jollies every day, there’s nothing that can be done

Would that not be covered by?
• In addition to these offences, a member of An Garda Síochána may direct a person who
is not complying with the requirements in respect of this form to so comply. Failing to
comply with that direction is an offence for which you may be arrested.



Again I agree with you if the fact you signed a legal form to self isolate and dont unless people are followed up some will do what they want. I just hope no one is ever in the place of passing it on to someone who is high risk and they die.
On a side note to the above...

Sadly in a relatives parish a person came back from the UK and self isolated with their high risk parents. Now both are dead. The government needs to have places where people can quaranteen in cases like that. They are closing citywest.

May the two of them rest in peace and their family member find solace somtime as they were asymtomatic and not their fault.

stephenjmcd

speckle wrote: »

Offences and penalties
The following offences are punishable by a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment for a
term not exceeding 6 months, or both.
• It is an offence not to complete this form in the manner specified.
• It is an offence to provide false or misleading information in this form.
• It is an offence not to provide an update if any of the information in section 3 of the
form changes in the next 14 days or period of stay, whichever is the shorter.
• It is an offence to fail to give an officer who requests it information required to verify
the details on this form.
• In addition to these offences, a member of An Garda Síochána may direct a person who
is not complying with the requirements in respect of this form to so comply. Failing to
comply with that direction is an offence for which you may be arrested.
• A member of An Garda Síochána who suspects that an offence has been committed
may demand the name and address of the person who is suspected of committing the
offence. Failure to comply with this demand or the production of a false name and/or
address is an offence for which a person may be arrested.

Yeah its mandatory to fill in the form I think everyone knows that, its only a form so don't see why people wouldn't fill it in.

speckle

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah its mandatory to fill in the form I think everyone knows that, its only a form so don't see why people wouldn't fill it in.

I agree why not fill it in and do the 14 days self isolation. 2weeks is not the end of the world and there are exemptions in some situations.