Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

timsey tiger

Gods Gift wrote: »

Yes but not with the sole purpose of getting and spreading the damn thing.

I guess the virus knows if it is invited or something.

If you jump off a bridge and kill yourself your dead. It doesn't really matter if you did it for thrills or wanted to die.

Assetbacked

A noticeable lack of doom and gloom articles in the Irish media tonight. Obviously the numbers being consistently excellent have caused them to run out of steam. The day's deaths and cases has fallen way down in the Journal, IT doesn't seem to even have it on the home page but leads with the US cases reaching 3m - I mean, good for them, but what about how low our numbers are despite having most things open for a week and a half with thousands flying in and out of Dublin Airport each day?

To the doom mongerers replying to each other the last couple of pages of this thread, I want to add anti-relaxers and flat curvers to the nicknames used.

s1ippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I very much doubt any company will do that. They would be for always losing people for 2 weeks. And it would involve an inappropriate amount of prying into people’s lives outside of work.

The only reason some companies are insistent that people who have travelled stay away from the office for 14 days is not because of the infection risk, but rather that it is a government advisory / request for arrivals to self isolate, and they could get in trouble if they knowingly let someone return to the office in breach of this request, who then infects someone else

A supermarket chain my friend works for says that even if you only take a week off work for your holidays and travel within Ireland, they'll require you to fill in a form detailing where you visited and your health profile on that day, and send it back three days before you're back into work. Also company policy there is that anyone's temperature is in the high 37s you have to consult with a GP about your health otherwise.

Their shop policy (as well as my organisation's) has changed so that for any foreign travel will require two weeks of your own AL be taken upon return.

In all likelihood based on the Principal's representative coming out today advising against foreign holidays, schools will individually require that any children who travel abroad do not attend school for two weeks.

LiquidZeb

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Hopefully a vaccine doesn't become the new nuclear fusion in that we will always be just 6 months from having one.

Oxford have said they believe their vaccine will provide a few years immunity and 3x the immunity of actually contracting the illness. Astra zeneca are prepped to churn out 1 billion doses in two months. I think an Indian company are contracted to prepare doses for mid-low income nations as well. We could know by next month if it's the one and so far the scientists are liking what they see. A big thanks to all researchers working on this incredible project. Hopefully some of the lads who called them arrogant on Sunday will reflect a bit.

fritzelly

s1ippy wrote: »

A supermarket chain my friend works for says that even if you only take a week off work for your holidays and travel within Ireland, they'll require you to fill in a form detailing where you visited and your health profile on that day, and send it back three days before you're back into work. Also company policy there is that anyone's temperature is in the high 37s you have to consult with a GP about your health otherwise.

Why do they have that policy for travel in Ireland - one of the safest countries in the world at the moment
They are taking it to the extreme there - foreign travel accepted, but just as much chance catching it walking down the street as driving a hundred miles down the road in Ireland

fritzelly

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Oxford have said they believe their vaccine will provide a few years immunity and 3x the immunity of actually contracting the illness. Astra zeneca are prepped to churn out 1 billion doses in two months. I think an Indian company are contracted to prepare doses for mid-low income nations as well. We could know by next month if it's the one and so far the scientists are liking what they see. A big thanks to all researchers working on this incredible project. Hopefully some of the lads who called them arrogant on Sunday will reflect a bit.

Over what time frame? That is a lot or do you mean cumulative

SeaBreezes

Looks like Trump is dictating CDC policy now..


https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1280925726087184387/photo/1

LiquidZeb

fritzelly wrote: »

Why do they have that policy for travel in Ireland - one of the safest countries in the world at the moment
They are taking it to the extreme there - foreign travel accepted, but just as much chance catching it walking down the street as driving a hundred miles down the road in Ireland

It's a massive breach of privacy. Whatever about supermarkets one of my worries is that higher rates of people working from home will lead to employers getting a foothold in their employees private lives.

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

The only reason some companies are insistent that people who have travelled stay away from the office for 14 days is not because of the infection risk, but rather that it is a government advisory / request for arrivals to self isolate, and they could get in trouble if they knowingly let someone return to the office in breach of this request, who then infects someone else

You are saying that the only reason is not infection risk and is infection risk.

Certainly there are doomsayers on here, but there are a fair few pollyannas as well.

LiquidZeb

fritzelly wrote: »

Over what time frame? That is a lot or do you mean cumulative

https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vaccine-uk-latest-oxford-race-scientists-august-covid-19-trials-497704/amp

There's an article I posted earlier. They don't go into detail as to when production will start but they say that Astra zeneca have 4 2000 litre bioreactors to mass produce the vaccine on that scale. I think maybe they need to wait until the phase 3 tests conclude and the relevant authorities are content to greenlight it.

If you're interested in reading more you should look at the vaccine/treatment thread. Hmmz and hmmzis are the best posters there for updates.

questionmark?

s1ippy wrote: »

A supermarket chain my friend works for says that even if you only take a week off work for your holidays and travel within Ireland, they'll require you to fill in a form detailing where you visited and your health profile on that day, and send it back three days before you're back into work. Also company policy there is that anyone's temperature is in the high 37s you have to consult with a GP about your health otherwise.

Their shop policy (as well as my organisation's) has changed so that for any foreign travel will require two weeks of your own AL be taken upon return.

I'm all for restrictions from high risk countries (hello UK and US!) But I would wonder how legally sound that supermarkets policy is as it's only government advice rather than a legal requirement to quarantine.

fritzelly

questionmark? wrote: »

I'm all for restrictions from high risk countries (hello UK and US!) But I would wonder how legally sound that supermarkets policy is as it's only government advice rather than a legal requirement to quarantine.

Some vague memory but don't employers have absolutely no right to know what you do on your holidays

timsey tiger

questionmark? wrote: »

I'm all for restrictions from high risk countries (hello UK and US!) But I would wonder how legally sound that supermarkets policy is as it's only government advice rather than a legal requirement to quarantine.

I doubt you'd win your case for unfair dismissal, if you were dismissed for a breach of company rules that reflect government advice.

s1ippy

Also I'm pretty sure the company and individual employee would both have a bigger problem on their hands if their staff and customers got sick because these sorts of precautions weren't taken to protect people against transmission.

MickeyLeari

seamus wrote: »

As a matter of interest, is this information announcement from NewsTalk or an official government ad?

Newstalk would be very much on the conservative, "save the economy" end of the spectrum, so it would be interesting to see if this is something they've rolled with alone.

As from the Irish times today.

ceadaoin.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the fire chief of Tuscaloosa, Alabama doesn't agree as he confirmed to that city's council of that behaviour happening.

No he didn't. If you read the articles, all he says is that he "confirmed" that others had "heard of" similar events. He doesn't actually offer the names of schools where this is apparently taking place or any names of confirmed cases. The same has been going around about other places and already been retracted as nonsense.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/walla-walla-county-retracts-claim-about-coronavirus-parties-says-they-never-occurred/

Lollipop95

What is the news about Northern Italy? I just read on Twitter that one of their hospitals that was at the epi-centre is doing brilliantly now. I think Brazil and the US are the countries that should be most worried now. One of the expert doctors in the US, Dr. Fauci, is continuously warning what will happen if everything completely opens up and people refuse to wear masks, but it seems TPTB will refuse to listen to him.

ACitizenErased

Lollipop95 wrote: »

What is the news about Northern Italy? I just read on Twitter that one of their hospitals that was at the epi-centre is doing brilliantly now

Hospital ICUs are empty

Rjd2

tom1ie wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53329946

Interesting study backed by 230 doctors/researchers showing c19 is spread through airborne aerosols and can travel further than the 2m SD rule with regard to enclosed spaces.
Has implications for healthcare workers who would be working at close quarters with the virus.
It would explain the high rates of infection among healthcare workers and also how a unit of healthcare workers in Italy (I seen this on the sky documentary that went into the hospitals in bergamo and Milan) were unaffected when they wore the sealed bio hazard suits.
Apparently the who are reluctant to back the claims as there just wouldn’t be enough of this kind of ppe to go around.

Grim reading.

I've masked up in the shops , but in the office nope. I've done social distancing and washed my hands to death so not reckless but as an office worker would have to consider wearing a mask now when working.

Makes my evening walk more dicey than I thought it was also.

spookwoman

ceadaoin. wrote: »

No he didn't. If you read the articles, all he says is that he "confirmed" that others had "heard of" similar events. He doesn't actually offer the names of schools where this is apparently taking place or any names of confirmed cases. The same has been going around about other places and already been retracted as nonsense.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/walla-walla-county-retracts-claim-about-coronavirus-parties-says-they-never-occurred/

Tuscaloosa Alabama is where Itssoeasy is talking about, Walla Walla over 2000km away.

hmmm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Grim reading.

I've masked up in the shops , but in the office nope. I've done social distancing and washed my hands to death so not reckless but as an office worker would have to consider wearing a mask now when working.

Makes my evening walk more dicey than I thought it was also.

I think this report has had too much media attention. As someone said earlier, it may be a way it could spread, but it isn't the dominant way it can spread. If it was airborne in a very virulent way, we'd all have it at this stage.

MickeyLeari

timsey tiger wrote: »

I doubt you'd win your case for unfair dismissal, if you were dismissed for a breach of company rules that reflect government advice.

Yes and no. I am not sure it would hold up if the Government advice was contrary to freedom of movement.

hmmm

The main hospital in Bergamo now has no Covid patients in ICU. A tough fight.

https://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/topnews/2020/07/08/intensiva-ospedale-bergamo-e-covid-free_75328b17-223d-466b-ad06-b43819ddf29a.html

ceadaoin.

spookwoman wrote: »

Tuscaloosa Alabama is where Itssoeasy is talking about, Walla Walla over 2000km away.

Yes I am aware. Just pointing out how rumours of similar parties have already been proven to be completely made up. Just like the Alabama ones will be

Here you go, there is absolutely zero evidence that this is actually happening. Should be easy to find in the age of social media right? But colleges, health services and police can't find any, its all based on hearsay. It has all the hallmarks of an urban/internet myth.

https://www.wtvy.com/2020/07/06/covid-19-parties-in-tuscaloosa-whats-really-going-on/

ACitizenErased

No HSE daily operations update tonight. I wonder if it has gone into single figures whether they're claiming privacy.

spookwoman

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes I am aware. Just pointing out how rumours of similar parties have already been proven to be completely made up. Just like the Alabama ones will be

Here you go, there is absolutely zero evidence that this is actually happening. Should be easy to find in the age of social media right? But colleges, health services and police can't find any, its all based on hearsay. It has all the hallmarks of an urban/internet myth.

https://www.wtvy.com/2020/07/06/covid-19-parties-in-tuscaloosa-whats-really-going-on/

The original story https://abcnews.go.com/US/alabama-students-throwing-covid-parties-infected-officials/story?id=71552514

"We thought that was kind of a rumor at first," Smith told the council members. "We did some research. Not only do the doctors' offices confirm it but the state confirmed they also had the same information."

Just because there is no absolute proof of something happening does not mean it didn't happen. Students are not going to admit attending these events because it could mean getting kicked out of their college.

questionmark?

timsey tiger wrote: »

I doubt you'd win your case for unfair dismissal, if you were dismissed for a breach of company rules that reflect government advice.

Employer: what did you do on your time off
Employee: I wasn't working
Employer: you travel
Employee: I was on annual leave
Employer: where
Employee: I wasn't working
..............................................
So question remains what legal option does an employer have to force employees to tell them what they do on their time off once they are not doing anything illegal that resulted in a criminal offence which is against most professional contracts but travelling is not illegal.
I'm not disagreeing nor agreeing with the supermarkets policy but questioning their legal stance that is unlikely to be legally sound unless a sols on here can maybe clarify?

bb1234567

Interesting seroprevalence studies in Brazil, determined an IFR of 0.45% in areas with low infection such as rural areas
https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/hnjx70/populationbased_surveys_of_antibodies_against/

But around 1% in areas with high level of infection (such as major cities)https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.30.20117531v1.full.pdf

May well be because of hospital resources being strained in densely populated areas.

Also interesting is the fact that these seropevalence studies have predicted an IFR similar to most of Europe, which is odd when you think how much younger Brazil's population is than that of Europe, perhaps that protective youth factor is outweighed by factors such as malnutrition,poverty, poorer healthcare in Brazil. Either way, looks like developing countries are and will suffer as high a proportion of deaths as Europe

fritzelly

Why would factors of the community affect seroprevalence

Just did a quick google and two results have it at 5% for Geneva and Spain
So by all accounts it isn't that widespread in Brazil

Maybe I don't understand this enough and missing some point there

caveat emptor

US off the scale. God help them. This is what happens when people throw around fake news at anything they disagree with. No matter the evidence.

timsey tiger

questionmark? wrote: »

Employer: what did you do on your time off
Employee: I wasn't working
Employer: you travel
Employee: I was on annual leave
Employer: where
Employee: I wasn't working
..............................................
So question remains what legal option does an employer have to force employees to tell them what they do on their time off once they are not doing anything illegal that resulted in a criminal offence which is against most professional contracts but travelling is not illegal.
I'm not disagreeing nor agreeing with the supermarkets policy but questioning their legal stance that is unlikely to be legally sound unless a sols on here can maybe clarify?

How would that work out.

Employer aside: Let's manage this awkward d1ck out of here as fast as we can.

BTW, ignoring gov. advice could reasonably be considered reckless. Then reckless endangering your colleagues and clients, good luck with that.

podgeandrodge

s1ippy wrote: »

A supermarket chain my friend works for says that even if you only take a week off work for your holidays and travel within Ireland, they'll require you to fill in a form detailing where you visited and your health profile on that day, and send it back three days before you're back into work. Also company policy there is that anyone's temperature is in the high 37s you have to consult with a GP about your health otherwise.

Their shop policy (as well as my organisation's) has changed so that for any foreign travel will require two weeks of your own AL be taken upon return.

What supermarket chain has said this?

caveat emptor

So that looks like a second ....

timsey tiger

caveat emptor wrote: »

So that looks like a second ....

No second waves, reclassify the first one as a ripple.

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

So that looks like a second ....

I'm moving in with Away with the Fairies

bb1234567

Deaths in America really do seem to be increasing along with the increased cases now, there seemed to be a very long lag for some reason.Originally I thought the new cases were just a result of increased tests but doesn't seem to be the case.

Texas reported 119 deaths which is by far the highest ever in one day. Other small southern states like Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi and Louisiana are also seeing large increases in daily deaths. California also reported by far it's highest number of daily deaths today also. With nearly 140,000 deaths and cases only going one way in most of the country and restrictions seemingly only becoming even less respected by the day it looks like USA will have a pretty frightening death toll come winter time. At this stage it doesn't seem unrealistic that USA could see well over 300k deaths by the end of 2020

BorneTobyWilde

2000 deaths in USA in last 40 hours.

Goldengirl

questionmark? wrote: »

Employer: what did you do on your time off
Employee: I wasn't working
Employer: you travel
Employee: I was on annual leave
Employer: where
Employee: I wasn't working
..............................................
So question remains what legal option does an employer have to force employees to tell them what they do on their time off once they are not doing anything illegal that resulted in a criminal offence which is against most professional contracts but travelling is not illegal.
I'm not disagreeing nor agreeing with the supermarkets policy but questioning their legal stance that is unlikely to be legally sound unless a sols on here can maybe clarify?

I agree with you, but ..
Depends on the worker , whether they are on short term or permanent contract, in a union, old enough and/ or brave enough to stand up to their employer , and probably not a big appetite in government circles to outlaw this type of behaviour in workplaces when they can't grasp the nettle of legislating about travel themselves .

nocoverart

The excitement in here and the internet in general is more contagious than the virus. I’m surprised half the world isn’t wiped out by now, always the Autumn I guess.

is_that_so

nocoverart wrote: »

The excitement in here and the internet in general is more contagious than the virus. I’m surprised half the world isn’t wiped out by now, always the Autumn I guess.

So much so that you were excited enough to throw up that post!

is_that_so

bb1234567 wrote: »

Deaths in America really do seem to be increasing along with the increased cases now, there seemed to be a very long lag for some reason.Originally I thought the new cases were just a result of increased tests but doesn't seem to be the case.

Texas reported 119 deaths which is by far the highest ever in one day. Other small southern states like Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi and Louisiana are also seeing large increases in daily deaths. California also reported by far it's highest number of daily deaths today also. With nearly 140,000 deaths and cases only going one way in most of the country and restrictions seemingly only becoming even less respected by the day it looks like USA will have a pretty frightening death toll come winter time. At this stage it doesn't seem unrealistic that USA could see well over 300k deaths by the end of 2020

There will always be a lag anyway in deaths. According to someone referenced in this it could be up to 6 weeks. On that basis they could well be returning to the horrible numbers from NY.

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/6/21314472/covid-19-coronavirus-us-cases-deaths-trends-wtf

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

No HSE daily operations update tonight. I wonder if it has gone into single figures whether they're claiming privacy.

I was wondering would the daily updates stop when the numbers went low. Nothing on the HSE site yet this morning and no update on the covid dashboard

FishOnABike

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I find it very interesting that we haven't, thankfully, seen a significant rise in cases after the recent easing of restrictions, or the noticible lack of compliance.

Does it mean that the more extreme lockdown measures are not required to limit spread of the virus, and that simpler social distancing measures are sufficient?

It would be great news if that were true, but I guess it's a bit too early to tell. A learning curve as always, but I just find it interesting!

I would think it is related to our current low daily new infection rate.

If new infections are few, identified and diagnosed quickly and contacts are also quickly identified and quarantine until cleared then less restrictive measures can be effective. e.g. social distancing and limiting the number of close contacts.

If there are a greater number of daily new infections, with a significant proportion of untraced community infections then stronger community wide measures are needed to bring the situation back under control.

We have reduced new infections to a low level. The better we are at keeping them as low as they currently are the nearer normal life can be. Increased travel and increased number of contacts as people return to working on site and schools reopen are things to managed well and monitored closely to quickly contain any potential increase in the infection rate if we don't want to follow Israel's footsteps.

FishOnABike

owlbethere wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I can understand the quarantine or the self isolation away from work after travelling because travelling was considered high risk from the start of this pandemic.

I'm also interested in learning about how companies will respond to staff taking other high risk activities as illustrated in the graph a few pages back. Like if staff attend to wedding or a concert or other large gatherings and events - will staff be required to notify their place of work. Will they be required to self isolate? How about a wedding within the governments guidelines of 50 people gatherings. That is due to change soon too and go up. Even with the government guidelines around weddings I would still consider them to be high risk, because of drinking and dancing.

A company can ask their employees to do anything within their contract terms.

If an employee is acting within government guidelines e.g. attending a social event, concert or sports event within the guidelines then any company requirements would need to be on full pay. I guess sick pay policies would have to apply if an employee was diagnosed CoViD-19 positive.

What happens if an employee is required to quarantine due to being a close contact of a diagnosed case is something the government needs to legislate for. I think a full pay scheme with no waiting period needs to be put on place to avoid the risk of economic pressure causing people to ignore quarantine requirements becoming a vector for spread.

If quarantine was required based on government guidelines e.g. travel to a 'risk' area then if the travel was work related any quarantine would need to be on full pay. If it was purely personal then I think it would be reasonable for a company to require the employee to either take the quarantine period out of additional annual leave or take it as unpaid leave. Failure to disclose their requirement to quarantine to the company could be a disciplinary matter.

Some companies might show some level of flexibility to facilitate employees but even existing policies around leave e.g. fixed company leave dates or limit of two weeks leave in one block might effectively limit a person's options.

wadacrack

Serbia, Ukraine and Israel look like they will have 2nd waves worst than the first one. Only 12 in Hospital and 9 ICU here atm. Hopefully can continue to keep numbers low. Good compliance with the app and masks hopefully will get better.

What Username Guidelines

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I was wondering would the daily updates stop when the numbers went low. Nothing on the HSE site yet this morning and no update on the covid dashboard

Available now, no changes 12 Hospital /9 ICU

1 new case confirmed in Portiuncula

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid19-daily-operations-update-2000-08-july-2020.pdf

AdamD

Goldengirl wrote: »

It was worse on the other thread, Relaxation of Restrictions, obvious trolling and ganging up on a poster in an attempt , successfully often , to get them so tied up replying to every line or word that was twisted or taken out of context , to a succession of posters , that the " doom monger " and " curtain twitcher " s they were labelled by these would not report some of the nastier insults, and then got banned themselves . Why , because the gang and the fan boys of which they were more numerous on that thread , pressed report so many times for the op .
I have learned from this ...
Don't feed a troll, press the report button instead .

For all this recent giving out about the positivity...

The restrictions thread was made because the government's initial plan was so slow, posters wanted it sped up. It was rightly sped up.

In this thread people have been predicting second waves and 'just you wait and see the cases in two weeks', for about 2-3 months now. Maybe the more positive people were actually in fact, more realistic?

And if people wanted better discourse there were about 2 or 3 people on either side of the argument posting utter crap 20 times a day who should have been banned sooner.

caveat emptor

I really like this view of the daily cases. Its the daily cases from worldometer.

• It clearly shows how well we are doing relative to other countries (currently).
• We are much more like the nordics.
• Sweden much worse than neighbours
• Even accounting for population you can see the big euro countries are not doing nearly as well.

source: https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1281013412366090241?s=20

is_that_so

Some reflections on the new Melbourne restrictions, including the kind of thing you would hope doesn't become widespread here.

There is a nastiness to the public discourse that was absent in March. A desire to apportion blame – to the Andrews government for infection control failures in hotel quarantine; to Black Lives Matter protesters despite repeated confirmation that no transmissions have been traced back to the march; and to poor and migrant communities who have been blamed for the spike in family to family transmission.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/this-lockdown-seems-different-second-time-around-melbourne-is-on-edge

hmmm

Israel is the place to watch I think. A reasonably competent government, modern infrastructure, Western-ised nation, and did a good job of controlling it first time around.

I'm not even sure what they did wrong (if "wrong" is the right word). The populace as a whole relaxed social distancing and schools went back, but on the flip side apparently mask wearing is pretty good.

It looks very similar to Ireland - good rules, but not observed very strictly. Israel also has a climate advantage I guess, although someone who knows the country better than I do might be able to tell us if air conditioning is widely used inside which may be a contributing factor.