Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

caveat emptor

is_that_so wrote: »

Some reflections on the new Melbourne restrictions, including the kind of thing you would hope doesn't become widespread here.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/this-lockdown-seems-different-second-time-around-melbourne-is-on-edge

In seems inevitable that people who are angry look for someone to blame. That's usually in the form of "other". Whether it be city vs country as we've seen here or native vs foreign. All classed as xenophobia (fear of other).

Looking at that map with the daily case figures, you can clearly see the countries with anti immigrant / right wing administrations are fairing far worse than those that took a society wide approach. Sweden, UK, US, Brazil etc. Some of these people have legitimate concerns about their society so not speaking for them.

I think there is a large proportion in these countries that are very distrustful of their government actions and so the government panders to this vocal cohort. They seem to be paying dearly for their hubris and their approach.

Glad not the case here. In a couple of years that could change.

GooglePlus

is_that_so wrote: »

Some reflections on the new Melbourne restrictions, including the kind of thing you would hope doesn't become widespread here.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/this-lockdown-seems-different-second-time-around-melbourne-is-on-edge

You can bet your house that it would.

timsey tiger

hmmm wrote: »

Israel is the place to watch I think. A reasonably competent government, modern infrastructure, Western-ised nation, and did a good job of controlling it first time around.

They have some pretty unique issues though, which means that their experience might not be indicative of other countries.

YellowBucket

The big problem with this in a situation like we are looking at in the USA is that the virus spread is exponential and they’re treating it as an issue of dogma, belief and politics, rather than looking at the reality and the practical problem and just dealing with it.

The more cases in the community the faster it spreads and the more difficult it is to control with low burden measures like contact tracing and isolating minor outbreaks.

It looks to me like it could end up under wraps in Europe but could be endemic in the USA before long as they’re just not getting to grips with it at all.

If there’s no herd immunity response, which is looking likely based on the Spanish and other studies, then you’re looking at a lot of people losing their lives until there’s a reliable treatment. A vaccine might arrive but then again it might not or may be less effective than people are hoping.

European and Asian countries were badly impacted initially were broadsided by the virus and did not appreciate the seriousness of it, but very quickly moved to contain it and massive reduce community spread. They haven’t turned it into political mess.

Unfortunately, the USA has a perfect storm of politics and culture that’s making this extremely hard to deal with. You’ve a large cohort who simply don’t want to accept facts and it’s a country where, for a couple of decades at least, there’s been a significant anti science movement and denial of facts around a range of issues. Take something like climate science. They don’t like the facts, so they chose not to believe them. That kind of stuff seems to be widespread in the USA where as here it’s a handful of people most of us would consider to be a tad unhinged (to put it mildly). We are certainly not electing them to office or taking their ranting seriously.

Unfortunately, COVID-19 isn’t a matter or personal opinion or belief. It’s a virus. It’s there and it needs to be managed so we can get on with life. Success in dealing with it isn’t about having the scariest military, most impressive stock markets or even biggest economies.

It’s about being relatively well resourced and having good social health systems, cohesive societies and pragmatic approaches. That’s an area the where US isn’t particularly great right now.

I don’t think the United States is capable of dealing dealing with it because it currently lacks the political capital and grasp of reality to do that.

Perhaps the virus crisis will snap them back to reality, but who knows. It could also just result in floundering and ruin, perhaps more so on some states than others, but it isn’t looking good.

The other aspect is that the US medical systems, as expensive as they are, are entirely focused on the most expensive procedures and treatments the resources follow the profitability, and not into public health, which has been hollowed out and defunded again due to politics.

All western medical systems are more focused on things like cancer care, cardiac care and life prolonging treatments but the US has tended to be very extreme, with money flowing into ever more expensive stuff in niches at the top, while ignoring and politicising against public health. They’re spending ludicrous amounts of money on healthcare and it has risen from being in line with much of the wealthiest parts of Western Europe in the early 80s to being an outlier and off the scale. The value for money they are getting is really poor and the costs are heading towards unsustainable levels when you look at spend vs household income.

Sadly, I just don’t see the USA getting this under control easily. It’s a political and societal issue and COVID-19 has exposed all their weak points.

Solving this is more likely to happen in big public health systems and cohesive societies that aren’t laced with conspiracy theories and that’s exactly what what you’re seeing. Well resourced European and Asian public healthcare and pragmatic politics has generally produced good results once it got to grips with it.

The U.K., more so because of political chaos at the top than a broken society made a mess of it too, although seems to be fighting back again as, despite the government, it has good systems and the population isn’t’ (beyond Brexit) vexed by the same lack of pragmatic responses and certainly aren’t anti science.

Places without public health resources are struggling and that’s probably going to get worse. I don’t see how developing world countries are going to manage this. Poor housing, inability to socially distance and lack of resources is the issue there.

Where we’ll be in a few months time could be very strange with perhaps Europe and Asia having exited the worst of the pandemic, moving back to semi normality while the US could be stuck in this phase until it cops on (assuming it can).

Very strange times ahead I suspect.

ZX7R

hmmm wrote: »

Israel is the place to watch I think. A reasonably competent government, modern infrastructure, Western-ised nation, and did a good job of controlling it first time around.

I'm not even sure what they did wrong (if "wrong" is the right word). The populace as a whole relaxed social distancing and schools went back, but on the flip side apparently mask wearing is pretty good.

It looks very similar to Ireland - good rules, but not observed very strictly. Israel also has a climate advantage I guess, although someone who knows the country better than I do might be able to tell us if air conditioning is widely used inside which may be a contributing factor.

There government disbanded the special response team , leaving everything to there medical health response team.
Yesterday there head of the medical health response team stood down sighting the array of problems.
Most significant being lack of contact tracing when the government pull the army out it collapsed due to the army refusing the health team access to the personal and infrastructure to carry it out.
She also sighted lack of border control notably the gasza border no screening temperature checks nothing with thousands of labour's crossing daily.
Lack of enforcement of mask wearing and a total lack of enforcement of religious services.

D.Q

YellowBucket wrote: »

Very strange times ahead I suspect.

Great Post, didn't wan't to quote the whole thing but a good summary of the situation america find themselves in. Really don't see how they manage to cross the divide.

When this first hit surely that was a good opportunity to rally against a common enemy, the virus doesn't discriminate between democrat/republican, instead everything to do with the virus was politically weaponised and actually served to raise tensions.

s1ippy

GooglePlus wrote: »

You can bet your house that it would.

Remember the Keelings workers!

This is incredibly upsetting to read. Confirmed positive covid patients and patients awaiting results who had dementia, in Clonakilty Community Hospital, who appear to have been staying in the same room before tests came back. What a sadistic practice, going against every logical infection control procedure. I wonder will anyone be sanctioned for it. Highly doubtful.

VonLuck

caveat emptor wrote: »

I really like this view of the daily cases. Its the daily cases from worldometer.

• It clearly shows how well we are doing relative to other countries (currently).
• We are much more like the nordics.
• Sweden much worse than neighbours
• Even accounting for population you can see the big euro countries are not doing nearly as well.

Is there an image of cases per million population? Would be interesting to see.

SeaBreezes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-antibodies-idUSKBN23F2JV

Bergamo:Over half the population tested positive for antibodies.
Same as the Austrian town at epicentre.

The place to watch for a resurgence or herd immunity.

Non solum non ambulabit

caveat emptor wrote: »

I really like this view of the daily cases. Its the daily cases from worldometer.

• It clearly shows how well we are doing relative to other countries (currently).
• We are much more like the nordics.
• Sweden much worse than neighbours
• Even accounting for population you can see the big euro countries are not doing nearly as well.

source: https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1281013412366090241?s=20

Some stark differences in countries e.g. Canada compared to USA

Non solum non ambulabit

hmmm wrote: »

Israel is the place to watch I think. A reasonably competent government, modern infrastructure, Western-ised nation, and did a good job of controlling it first time around.

I'm not even sure what they did wrong (if "wrong" is the right word). The populace as a whole relaxed social distancing and schools went back, but on the flip side apparently mask wearing is pretty good.

It looks very similar to Ireland - good rules, but not observed very strictly. Israel also has a climate advantage I guess, although someone who knows the country better than I do might be able to tell us if air conditioning is widely used inside which may be a contributing factor.

Religious ceremonies played a huge part as i understand.

Non solum non ambulabit

YellowBucket wrote: »

Very strange times ahead I suspect.

Excellent post. I think it hits the nail on the head.

YellowBucket

If airborne particles are a huge issue, countries that are very dependent on air conditioning are probably at more risk than we are, or much of Northern Europe is.

Even in relatively warmer parts of Western Europe like France, a lot of people don’t bother with air conditioning and buildings tend to be adapted to the weather - shutters etc

Very few of those systems are geared up to deal with this. Filtration is usually basic or non existent and they just recirculate, cool and dehumidify air.

The US also tends to use forced air heating. So you’ll have similar issues to air conditioning through the year, even in colder months. Most European buildings tend to use radiators. You wouldn’t find many schools here for example with forced air heating, although a lot of universities have gone with complex HVAC systems, especially in newer, more energy efficient buildings.

In Ireland the issue will be public transport vehicles and offices.

Irish Rail, Bus Éireann and Luas should probably be looking at maximising air extraction out of the coaches. It might not be easy to do and it will definitely reduce energy efficiency but given our climate most of the time it will be an acceptable temperature on board, might even be fresher and less stuffy.

It’s something we would want to be looking at though and ramping up the knowledge and technical experience very rapidly.

There’s a lot of focus on aviation and aircraft are a very known quantity and highly regulated. Things like busses, trains, offices and so on are far less predictable and the finer details wouldn’t be as well analysed at all.

hmmm

YellowBucket wrote: »

Irish Rail, Bus Éireann and Luas should probably be looking at maximising air extraction out of the coaches. It might not be easy to do

Don't want to sound smart, but on public transport isn't that opening a window?

briancoolcat

"Very strange times ahead I suspect." (Quote) Great post yellow bucket and spot on analysis of what's going on in America right now. Unless a cure for treatment is found for this you are going to see things slide along and out of control over there. I've lived there and have brother living and married in new York and it is so disjointed and badly managed right now that coronavirus won't be controlled without a vaccine. It's a different world over there with so many different views and beliefs and outlooks that the world will be constantly under the thumb of this unless an outright ban on travel to and from the US and the other badly managed countries is imposed. Unfortunately this won't happen so we will have to co exist with this until the boffins find a treatment. Lot of lives going to be lost in the meantime but I can't see any other alternative only co existence with covid 19.

Non solum non ambulabit

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Some stark differences in countries e.g. Canada compared to USA

Wonder how it looks when done state by state for the US. Shifts the border to the old mason-dixon line i'd say

snotboogie

is_that_so wrote: »

Some reflections on the new Melbourne restrictions, including the kind of thing you would hope doesn't become widespread here.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/09/this-lockdown-seems-different-second-time-around-melbourne-is-on-edge

I don't know why that article rubbed me the wrong way:

Bec Blakeney says her seven-year-old daughter “thrived” during the first lockdown, but is not doing well now.

“Recently I checked her worry jar and found her worries are: ‘having coronavirus’ and ‘not seeing my friends again’,” she says.

Maybe because that quote with the obligatory twitter picture screams cosseted attention seeker. I get it, it's tough and my words are harsh but when you look at what people are going through in Brazil and South Asia it all seems a bit trivial

caveat emptor

VonLuck wrote: »

Is there an image of cases per million population? Would be interesting to see.

I found it on a different site. You have to hover over with mouse to see the value for a country.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=map&yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&country=USA~GBR~CAN~BRA~AUS~IND~DEU~FRA~MEX~CHL~ZAF~DZA~COL&casesMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&aligned=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

Really does show how good things are here at the moment/

• France and Spain are 4 times worse than us at the moment.
• Sweden is 60 times more cases per head.
• US is nearly 100 times worse at the moment.

Things can change pretty quickly as we've seen in Israel. Hopefully we don't get complacent.

bennyineire

hmmm wrote: »

Don't want to sound smart, but on public transport isn't that opening a window?

When was the last time you were on a commuter/inter city train ?
there are no windows that you can open on modern trains

RebelButtMunch

bennyineire wrote: »

When was the last time you were on a commuter/inter city train ?
there are no windows that you can open on modern trains

Luas has windows that open

Rob A. Bank

Interesting article in the New York Times about Airborne Coronavirus with some useful links.

"In a crowded indoor space, a single infected person can release enough aerosolized virus over time to infect many people, perhaps seeding a superspreader event.

For droplets to be responsible for that kind of spread, a single person would have to be within a few feet of all the other people, or to have contaminated an object that everyone else touched.

All that seems unlikely to many experts: “I have to do too many mental gymnastics to explain those other routes of transmission compared to aerosol transmission, which is much simpler,” Dr. Marr said."

Ae Fond Kiss

If we were to put a final, worst case scenario of 300,000 Covid deaths in the US this is 0.1% of her population of 328 million.

Like some other countries, they see those who die as generally over 65, not part of the 'productive' elements of society. Infact those in charge view them as the opposite, those on pensions, using health care resources. It's an appalling, unethical way of viewing the pandemic.

In the American Civil War the US lost 2% of her then population, 620,000 people. Mostly young men in their prime. 2% of the population is 20 times the 0.1% worst case projection of Covid deaths.

I'm not trying to compare a War for slave freedom/state rights to a viral pandemic. But just trying to point out that the US is a huge country, and due to the demographic effected by the virus, and relatively small percentage death rate, they aren't treating this seriously.

Along with all the reasons mentioned in Yellow Bucket's excellent posts.

ednwireland

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Interesting article in the New York Times about Airborne Coronavirus with some useful links.

"In a crowded indoor space, a single infected person can release enough aerosolized virus over time to infect many people, perhaps seeding a superspreader event.

For droplets to be responsible for that kind of spread, a single person would have to be within a few feet of all the other people, or to have contaminated an object that everyone else touched.

All that seems unlikely to many experts: “I have to do too many mental gymnastics to explain those other routes of transmission compared to aerosol transmission, which is much simpler,” Dr. Marr said."

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

honestly most of the "experts" need to shut up at this point expect most of the university research funding out their at the moment is covid related so need your face on the telly

AlmightyCushion

Ae Fond Kiss wrote: »

If we were to put a final, worst case scenario of 300,000 Covid deaths in the US this is 0.001% of her population of 328 million.

Like some other countries, they see those who die as generally over 65, not part of the 'productive' elements of society. Infact those in charge view them as the opposite, those on pensions, using health care resources. It's an appalling, unethical way of viewing the pandemic.

In the American Civil War the US lost 2% of her then population, 620,000 people. Mostly young men in their prime. 2% of the population is 2,000 times the 0.001% worst case projection of Covid deaths.

I'm not trying to compare a War for slave freedom/state rights to a viral pandemic. But just trying to point out that the US is a huge country, and due to the demographic effected by the virus, and relatively small percentage death rate, they aren't treating this seriously.

Along with all the reasons mentioned in Yellow Bucket's excellent posts.

Your math is way off. 300,000 is nearly 0.1% of their population not 0.001%.

AlmightyCushion

ednwireland wrote: »

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

honestly most of the "experts" need to shut up at this point expect most of the university research funding out their at the moment is covid related so need your face on the telly

The volume of air and amount of virus emitted over time. Customers in shops will typically only be there for a short amount of time. Even if they are spreading the virus, they will probably only shed a small amount over a large area. That's different to a pub which is usually a lot smaller and people stay there a lot longer. Plus, they will be talking/shouting a lot more so spreading more virus. Similar with an office workplace type environment. They're spending 8 or 9 hours there and talking more so spreading more virus although the volume of air in the room would be larger.

Ae Fond Kiss

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Your math is way off. 300,000 is nearly 0.1% of their population not 0.001%.

It is indeed!

Ok I'll edit that. 0.1% obviously still doesn't register with them.

caveat emptor

Buzzword bingo time,

• experts
• shut up
• scare tactic
• MSM fear mongerers

Would you go to a doctor if you were sick?
Are they an expert?
What even is an expert?

So many questions with so many consequences.

Politicians including Michael Gove and Donald Trump have repeatedly asserted that people have “had enough” of experts. This troubles me deeply; the sentiment is contributing to major shifts in our political landscape. But it also leads me to ask why people don’t trust experts.

Better yet, why do people trust some experts but reject others? Why do many people on the one hand seek medical experts for medical issues, but distrust climate experts for climate issues, or economic experts for economic issues?

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-real-reason-that-we-don-t-trust-experts-a7126536.html

ednwireland wrote: »

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

honestly most of the "experts" need to shut up at this point expect most of the university research funding out their at the moment is covid related so need your face on the telly

caveat emptor wrote: »

US off the scale. God help them. This is what happens when people throw around fake news at anything they disagree with. No matter the evidence.

Away With The Fairies

Has the WHO announced aerosol transmission yet?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/airborne-coronavirus-what-how-remain-22323338?fbclid=IwAR2dMkPN5YPTmizsMDneSGUTYX1qKZP2SnuBtqXZ4huMp46DlsnfLK3wI5o

hmmm

ednwireland wrote: »

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

I don't blame the scientists, I blame the media looking for exciting headlines.

Scientists will say "based on the information we have, it looks like it could spread via airborne, aerosol or droplet transmission, although from what we can see of cases the vast majority outside of hospitals are caused by droplets, please sneeze into your sleeve and wear a mask." which the media then headline as "It's in the air all around us, we're all going to die!!!!"

cnocbui

ednwireland wrote: »

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

honestly most of the "experts" need to shut up at this point expect most of the university research funding out their at the moment is covid related so need your face on the telly

How do you know most shop workers weren't?

This thread endlessly focuses on the negatives to the point people lose sight of the fact that most people experience either very mild symptoms or none at all, particularly those in the age group in which most supermarket employees would fall.

cnocbui

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Has the WHO announced aerosol transmission yet?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/airborne-coronavirus-what-how-remain-22323338?fbclid=IwAR2dMkPN5YPTmizsMDneSGUTYX1qKZP2SnuBtqXZ4huMp46DlsnfLK3wI5o

Who cares? The WHOs credibility is next to nonexistent at this point.

political analyst

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0709/1152196-global-coronavirus-cases/

Australia's second most populous city began a six-week lockdown today following a spike in new coronavirus cases, as states around the country tightened internal borders to prevent a second wave sweeping the country.

Australia has avoided the high casualty numbers of other countries to the Covid-19 pandemic, which has killed 544,055 people globally, but an outbreak in Melbourne prompted the state of Victoria to impose "self isolate" orders for the city's estimated five million.

The virus's maximum incubation period before the symptoms of Covid appear - in those cases where the carrier develops Covid - is a fortnight. So why is the duration of the Melbourne lockdown 3 times longer than that?

yawhat?

ednwireland wrote: »

aerosol the new scare tactic, some doctor on tv3 saying aerosols hang around in the air and infect people last night. if thats the case how is every shop worker not infected by now ????

honestly most of the "experts" need to shut up at this point expect most of the university research funding out their at the moment is covid related so need your face on the telly

This is a relatively new virus that continues to spread around the world, and re-emerges in areas that previously suppressed its transmission. No one knows for sure exactly how it transmits. That’s nobody, including you.

As a result people are engaged in research and study to figure this out. They then release the results of their studies to help further our understanding of the virus.

Your post implies that these people are not in fact experts, and that their research is flawed and incorrect, and that they are motivated by financial gain. As a result, they should shut up.

That’s quite a strong view to hold, and I would hope that you have both the expertise and knowledge to back it up. However, I suspect that you don’t. This will not, however, stop you expressing your views because you have every right to denigrate others, even if you know sweet f.a. about them or their work. Like soo many others on this thread.

timsey tiger

hmmm wrote: »

I don't blame the scientists, I blame the media looking for exciting headlines.

Scientists will say "based on the information we have, it looks like it could spread via airborne, aerosol or droplet transmission, although from what we can see of cases the vast majority outside of hospitals are caused by droplets, please sneeze into your sleeve and wear a mask." which the media then headline as "It's in the air all around us, we're all going to die!!!!"

Aerosol spread, would make the high number of medical staff still being infected more understandable.

cnocbui

political analyst wrote: »

...
The virus's maximum incubation period before the symptoms of Covid appear - in those cases where the carrier develops Covid - is a fortnight. So why is the duration of the Melbourne lockdown 3 times longer than that?

Because the Chinese found that most infections occurred within households, which is why they pulled people out of them and stuck them in fever wards.

If you have a household of 5 or six, with one infected at the start of lockdown, you might get a chain of infections, with significant delays between one member becoming infected from another, rather than them all getting it simultaneously, thus dragging out the infectious period for the household.

Widdensushi

It's possible in laboratory conditions for it to be transmitted that way but in every day life is unlikely

Ficheall

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0709/1152196-global-coronavirus-cases/

Australia's second most populous city began a six-week lockdown today following a spike in new coronavirus cases, as states around the country tightened internal borders to prevent a second wave sweeping the country.

Australia has avoided the high casualty numbers of other countries to the Covid-19 pandemic, which has killed 544,055 people globally, but an outbreak in Melbourne prompted the state of Victoria to impose "self isolate" orders for the city's estimated five million.

The virus's maximum incubation period before the symptoms of Covid appear - in those cases where the carrier develops Covid - is a fortnight. So why is the duration of the Melbourne lockdown 3 times longer than that?

You could have it for two weeks and not pass it on immediately, and then pass it to your housemate whom you don't interact with very often, who then doesn't develop symptoms, but is still a carrier - and you can be an asymptomatic carrier for more than two weeks, I believe. That kind of thing.
It does seem to be erring on the side of caution, but I can't say I blame them.

Plumbthedepths

Interesting interview on the 1 o clock news from Dr D Naborro ( hope I spelt it right) special envoy on Covid 19 from WHO . At present WHO cannot say that Covid 19 is airborne but may change their stance in the presence of new evidence.

Sam Russell

timsey tiger wrote: »

Aerosol spread, would make the high number of medical staff still being infected more understandable.

So would testing them all every week, symptoms or not.

cnocbui

timsey tiger wrote: »

Aerosol spread, would make the high number of medical staff still being infected more understandable.

A Chinese study found particularly large amounts of airborne virus containing vapour droplets in the rooms where medical workers changed into and out of PPE gear.

caveat emptor

Seems this is what's happening. Sad times.

ACitizenErased

Latest testing data released
Well over 10,000 swabs taken yesterday once again, our positivity rate is incredibly low

[url] https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/integrated-information-service-testing-and-contact-tracing-dashboard-9-july-2020.pdf[/url]

political analyst

Ficheall wrote: »

You could have it for two weeks and not pass it on immediately, and then pass it to your housemate whom you don't interact with very often, who then doesn't develop symptoms, but is still a carrier - and you can be an asymptomatic carrier for more than two weeks, I believe. That kind of thing.
It does seem to be erring on the side of caution, but I can't say I blame them.

Thank you.

political analyst

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Interesting interview on the 1 o clock news from Dr D Naborro ( hope I spelt it right) special envoy on Covid 19 from WHO . At present WHO cannot say that Covid 19 is airborne but may change their stance in the presence of new evidence.

Actually, your typo is apt - given that he is a bore!

After sitting in labs for 6 months, the scientists still don't know?! Ah, for Pete's sake!

Rob A. Bank

Indian public health workers conducted medical checks in a hotspot area in Mumbai this week.

What struck me about this photo is that those Indian public health workers are better protected than our Irish ICU nurses.

They have protection against aerosol transmission, ours only have protection against droplet transmission.

Scandalous !

political analyst

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Indian public health workers conducted medical checks in a hotspot area in Mumbai this week.

What struck me about this photo is that those Indian public health workers are better protected than our Irish ICU nurses.

They have protection against aerosol transmission, ours only have protection against droplet transmission.

Scandalous !

I can't say I'm surprised, given that Irish people in India are more likely to become ill than Indian people in India. Sure, my cousin and his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, got sick when they were there a decade ago!

Ficheall

AdamD wrote: »

For all this recent giving out about the positivity...

...
In this thread people have been predicting second waves and 'just you wait and see the cases in two weeks', for about 2-3 months now. Maybe the more positive people were actually in fact, more realistic?

The complaints weren't about the positivity, the complaints were about the vitriol directed against any negative posts.

Two of the people banned were among those who predicted the first wave back in January, iirc. I don't recall where the currently positive people stood then - perhaps they have been correct all along.
Travel aside, I think Ireland has things pretty much under control now, but keeping a cautious eye on what's happening beyond our front door is not deserving of the scorn it seems to attract.

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Indian public health workers conducted medical checks in a hotspot area in Mumbai this week.

What struck me about this photo is that those Indian public health workers are better protected than our Irish ICU nurses.

They have protection against aerosol transmission, ours only have protection against droplet transmission.

Scandalous !

Are they N95 masks? Have you seen the photos of nurses in full PPE?

Plumbthedepths

political analyst wrote: »

Actually, your typo is apt - given that he is a bore!

After sitting in labs for 6 months, the scientists still don't know?! Ah, for Pete's sake!

I don't think he was sitting in a lab for the last six months.
He outlined the WHOs position regarding aerosol transmission. They are yet to be convinced it's a cause of worry but will examine all evidence presented and review their position if it is warranted. They still believe an infected person coughing or sneezing in front of a non infected person is the primary source of transmission.I've repeated what I heard him say but I'm not responsible for what he has said.

Plumbthedepths

political analyst wrote: »

I can't say I'm surprised, given that Irish people in India are more likely to become ill than Indian people in India. Sure, my cousin and his girlfriend, who has since become his wife, got sick when they were there a decade ago!

Irish people travelling to a region where a myriad of illnesses exist that they have no defence from whereas the local population have a tolerance for, were you surprised?