Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Indian public health workers conducted medical checks in a hotspot area in Mumbai this week.

What struck me about this photo is that those Indian public health workers are better protected than our Irish ICU nurses.

They have protection against aerosol transmission, ours only have protection against droplet transmission.

Scandalous !

I think you need to look closer at that photo, particular towards the mask.
The most recent image I saw of an Irish health care worker was wearing an overall, faceshield, glasses and a high quality face mask most likely Kn95 grade.

ginoginelli

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The volume of air and amount of virus emitted over time. Customers in shops will typically only be there for a short amount of time. Even if they are spreading the virus, they will probably only shed a small amount over a large area. That's different to a pub which is usually a lot smaller and people stay there a lot longer. Plus, they will be talking/shouting a lot more so spreading more virus. Similar with an office workplace type environment. They're spending 8 or 9 hours there and talking more so spreading more virus although the volume of air in the room would be larger.

Exactly. Offices are at the highest end of risk at the moment. This is conveniently being ignored by government and big businesses, as they dont want to sacrifice the economy.

At the very least masks should be mandated inside these premises.

cnocbui

ginoginelli wrote: »

Exactly. Offices are at the highest end of risk at the moment. This is conveniently being ignored by government and big businesses, as they dont want to sacrifice the economy.

At the very least masks should be mandated inside these premises.

Do you want them to sacrifice the economy?

BorneTobyWilde

USA in the Midst of a pandemic






Europe in the Midst of a pandemic .




You'd have to agree with the American scientists, that the virus is airborne , it sure is/

ginoginelli

cnocbui wrote: »

Do you want them to sacrifice the economy?

Of course not. But it's not right that peoples health is effectively expendable. I want to see appropriate safety measure put in place in these high risk environments.

Mask wearing, improved ventilation and uv lighting should be implemented.

BorneTobyWilde

If left China via airlines, it entered Europe through airlines, yet Trump didn't stop it spreading all over American via airlines.

You can look at their hot spot map, and line it up directly with flights from Florida to New York, New York to Texas, Arizona to New York, Cali to New York, and a mix of all of them together.
It would be funny if there wasn't 150,000 people dead.

cnocbui

ginoginelli wrote: »

Of course not. But it's not right that peoples health is effectively expendable. I want to see appropriate safety measure put in place in these high risk environments.

Mask wearing, improved ventilation and uv lighting should be implemented.

Unless the office environment is populated with people over 70 with very serious medical problems, then peoples health wont be effectively expendable.

Gruffalux

cnocbui wrote: »

Unless the office environment is populated with people over 70 with very serious medical problems, then peoples health wont be effectively expendable.

You haven't heard then about the crappy post viral stuff of various sorts some people who recover are experiencing?

copeyhagen

Gruffalox wrote: »

You haven't heard then about the crappy post viral stuff of various sorts some people who recover are experiencing?

youre still talking about the over 70s though, correct?

ACitizenErased

The WHO disagrees with scientists and believe airborne particles are not the main cause of spread.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1281215942664622085?s=21

ACitizenErased

Northern Ireland update:

0 deaths for 6th day in a row

3 additional cases

0 in ICU for 13th day in a row

Boggles

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The WHO disagrees with scientists and believe airborne particles are not the main cause of spread.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1281215942664622085?s=21

What the WHO think is pretty much irrelevant at this stage TBH.

cnocbui

Gruffalox wrote: »

You haven't heard then about the crappy post viral stuff of various sorts some people who recover are experiencing?

Oh I have, permanently damaged lungs and many other organs, but there's a catch. What doctors are reporting relates to only some of the people who have had sever cases and who were admitted to hospital as a result, which is a minority, and most of those have existing health issues.

I am not trying to downplay the seriousness, but health consequences simply can not be the sole criteria driving government response.

Personally I think widespread wearing of masks in enclosed spaces and a return to normal would be the best course of action to balance health and economic outcomes.

Rob A. Bank

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they N95 masks? Have you seen the photos of nurses in full PPE?

Fair point... that is a surgical mask... my contacts need replacing.

I have not been inside an Irish ICU ward recently (thank God) but I am going on what I saw on the St James Hospital TV programme.

These Indian public health nurses appear to have goggles, full body suit and foot layers of PPE.

The Irish nurses had runners, gowns and a lot of exposed skin compared to the double or triple layer PPE that is standard in Chinese or Italian ICUs for the most exposed staff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HsGqQCLzLU

US2

If this virus transmits so easily why do they have to stick the swab almost into your brain, would a simple rub on the mouth tounge not pick up the virus ?

Renjit

US2 wrote: »

If this virus transmits so easily why do they have to stick the swab almost into your brain, would a simple rub on the mouth tounge not pick up the virus ?

You may not be shedding it. Different stages. Standard procedure.

CalamariFritti

What I don't understand about this 'airborne narrative' is that is nothing new but it is being peddled as a game changer

We all know how corona viruses spread. Catching bits of sneezes and coughs and bringing them onto your own shift tissue. Drops, droplets, aerosols. Doesn't matter what you call it its essentially all the same thing. Small or smaller drops of fluid in the air.

What I don't understand is that this is all know for decades. The common cold is a corona virus. Surely there must be hundreds if not thousands of papers on this. But now we are treating this like a game changer, we come out with these 'oh my god' scenarios. As if this was some previously unknown space alien virus that we gradually learn about at great peril.

So a bunch of scientists examined the droplets scenario further. And they come out with 'could' and 'is possible'. So I read that as under certain circumstances it can happen. But the real question is how prevalent is this scenario? How often is it likely to happen, how much of a role does it play in real world scenarios?

Sorry but I'm not willing to throw my lot in with game changer advocates based on hunches. Another destructive measure on our social interactions based on 'could' and 'is possible'. We already have in my opinion vastly overreacted in the past at great damage to economy and society. We were under pressure then and we chose to err on the side of caution, no issues there. But we have this thing under control at the moment and we can make rational decisions based on scientific facts. And with scientific facts I don't mean 'it can happen under certain model conditions'. I mean proper examinations of how likely this is going to be a contribution factor once normal life resumes. Based on real world scenarios.

I know people are scared about going back to office and back to school scenarios. But lets be real. Just because someone in school has the sneezes doesn't mean come 4 o clock everyone walks out of there with a cold. We know this for decades.

Non solum non ambulabit

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Northern Ireland update:

0 deaths for 6th day in a row

3 additional cases

0 in ICU for 13th day in a row

Very encouraging. NI is in a great spot.

Widdensushi

fritzelly wrote: »

I'm moving in with Away with the Fairies

You will be offering yourself as a test subject for a vaccine soon so

Widdensushi

Boggles wrote: »

What the WHO think is pretty much irrelevant at this stage TBH.

You would be quick to agree with them if they recommended a full lockdown

Boggles

Widdensushi wrote: »

You would be quick to agree with them if they recommended a full lockdown

Ah. No. No I wouldn't.

In fact I was completely against their "advice" of not wearing masks so we could avoid another lockdown.

Swing and miss there boyo!

SeaBreezes

cnocbui wrote: »

Do you want them to sacrifice the economy?

Sweden didnt, and economy tanked anyway...

Rob A. Bank

Obesity and COVID-19 in New York City

"A study of 1687 adults hospitalized with COVID-19 in New York City showed that obesity was an independent risk factor for respiratory failure but not for in-hospital mortality.

Our findings, at least in part, explain the extensive use of invasive mechanical ventilation reported in the United States, where the prevalence of obesity exceeds 40%."

The obesity epidemic in the USA appears to be adding to the problems there... U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them with floor models to better support obese patients and the front doors on school buses are being widening so heavier kids can fit in.

:eek:

SeaBreezes

cnocbui wrote: »

Unless the office environment is populated with people over 70 with very serious medical problems, then peoples health wont be effectively expendable.

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1281108572580073473
Dr. William Haseltine: "I hope Dr. Redfield ... was quoted out of context when he said it's very, very difficult for children to get sick. That is not true. Children get infected. They infect each other. They infect their parents. And when they do get sick, it is catastrophic."

He goes on to say a friends child got it and just survived but because this virus can also leave brain damage they are watching carefully.


ICU physician on long term sequelae (after recovery):
https://twitter.com/maureviv/status/1279719477454811136

Warning of serious brain issues after mild cases:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms?CMP=share_btn_tw

Children that have died from COVID19:
https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1280930511527923713

COVID19 survivors banned from joining military:
https://twitter.com/dcharrison/status/1280349482228432896

is_that_so

Boggles wrote: »

What the WHO think is pretty much irrelevant at this stage TBH.

In fairness to them on this they do say there is no categorical body of work to show this to be the case. Studies to date have just been to show how far ejected particles can or could travel. Whatever else about them they are bastions of absolute caution in what they will say, just like our own team.

cnocbui

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Sweden didnt, and economy tanked anyway...

No it didn't.

Sweden has reaped the benefits of keeping its economy out of lockdown after escaping the dramatic growth slumps suffered by European rivals.

The Scandinavian country has taken a far more relaxed approach to tackling the coronavirus than much of the West, keeping most schools, restaurants and businesses open and relying on a voluntary approach to social distancing.

Official figures show the country's economy shrank by just 0.3pc in the first three months of 2020, a far smaller decline than most forecasters and its central bank expected. The Riksbank had pencilled in a drop of between 0.8pc and 1.8pc.

The smaller scale of the fall contrasts with record slumps seen elsewhere across the Eurozone over the quarter as governments imposed much more stringent measures. France's economy tumbled 5.8pc, Italy's 4.7pc and Spain's by 5.2pc, while the Eurozone’s output overall sank by 3.8pc - the worst decline in its history. The figures are likely to be far worse in the second quarter as lockdowns grind on.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/05/light-touch-sweden-suffers-smaller-growth-hit-coronavirus/

I'm not interested in economic projections and guesses and expectations.

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Obesity and COVID-19 in New York City

"A study of 1687 adults hospitalized with COVID-19 in New York City showed that obesity was an independent risk factor for respiratory failure but not for in-hospital mortality.

Our findings, at least in part, explain the extensive use of invasive mechanical ventilation reported in the United States, where the prevalence of obesity exceeds 40%."

The obesity epidemic in the USA appears to be adding to the problems there... U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them with floor models to better support obese patients and the front doors on school buses are being widening so heavier kids can fit in.

:eek:

This was mentioned by the Uk authorities aswell. Obsese patients were making up to nearly 50% of ICU patients. Confirmed, being fat is not good for your health.

joeguevara

cnocbui wrote: »

No it didn't.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/05/light-touch-sweden-suffers-smaller-growth-hit-coronavirus/

I'm not interested in economic projections and guesses and expectations.

mmmm the telegraph you quoted was from early May.

This is from today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fsweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

Sweden economy has tanked and more deaths.

cnocbui

joeguevara wrote: »

mmmm the telegraph you quoted was from early May.

This is from today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fsweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

Sweden economy has tanked and more deaths.

Fail.

Please subscribe or sign in to continue reading.

joeguevara

cnocbui wrote: »

Fail.

yawn

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

Ficheall

cnocbui wrote: »

No it didn't.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/05/light-touch-sweden-suffers-smaller-growth-hit-coronavirus/

Your article just looks at the first three months of the year.. Do you perhaps have anything more up to date?

is_that_so

joeguevara wrote: »

mmmm the telegraph you quoted was from early May.

This is from today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fsweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

Sweden economy has tanked and more deaths.

That's the NY Times article which you can read for free.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

joeguevara

Ficheall wrote: »

Your article just looks at the first three months of the year.. Do you perhaps have anything more up to date?

He could have a look at this. https://www.cleveland.com/nation/2020/07/swedens-laissez-faire-approach-on-coronavirus-pays-no-dividends-am-news-links.html

AdamD

joeguevara wrote: »

yawn

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-strategy-high-death-toll-no-economic-gain-data-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

That says their GDP will decrease by 4.5%, isn't ours set to go down by 8%-10%?

wadacrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jhFI5Wm7k&feature=emb_title

joeguevara

AdamD wrote: »

That says their GDP will decrease by 4.5%, isn't ours set to go down by 8%-10%?

It was stated that the Swedish economy was not effected and won't tank. So high death rate, tanked economy for Sweden.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

That says their GDP will decrease by 4.5%, isn't ours set to go down by 8%-10%?

It may but we knew that going in. Part of their strategy assumed the economy would not be hit badly and it has been.

Assetbacked

cnocbui wrote: »

How do you know most shop workers weren't?

This thread endlessly focuses on the negatives to the point people lose sight of the fact that most people experience either very mild symptoms or none at all, particularly those in the age group in which most supermarket employees would fall.

The part of this post in bold should be bumped every page of this thread and accompany each media story on covid.

Ficheall

cnocbui wrote: »

Please subscribe or sign in to continue reading.

Fail.

Hmm.

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/05/light-touch-sweden-suffers-smaller-growth-hit-coronavirus/

Assetbacked

Ficheall wrote: »

Hmm.

On holiday or working from the West Coast?

Ficheall

Assetbacked wrote: »

On holiday or working from the West Coast?

I'm in Ireland - have just adjusted the time on my machine to match company time in California.

caveat emptor

EX KGB person in 1984 effectively describes what's happening in the west at the moment. Tin foil hat time.
Relevant for the fact that describes how people can be given all of the information that proves stuff and they'll still not believe it. Kinda sums up US at this moment and this thread (some of the time)

"Exposure to true information doesn't matter anymore, a person who is demoralised is unable to assess true information, the facts tell nothing to him

Even if I shower him with information, authentic prove, documents with pictures. Even if I take him to the Soviet Union and show him a concentration camp.
Until he is going to receive a kick in his fat bottom
When a military boot crushes his balls, then he will understand. Not before.

Rob A. Bank

An urgent care center in the (?)aptly named Corona district of Queens, New York found that 68.4 percent of people tested positive for antibodies to the new coronavirus.

It is a working class low income neighborhood, where Black and Latino residents make up a large part of the population, living in overcrowded conditions. The main sources of employment are jobs in hospitality, including restaurants, as well as construction and manufacturing... many showed up to work throughout the pandemic, elevating their risk of infection.

If New York is hit by a second wave, this district may be a natural laboratory to examine the extent of immunity conferred by the antibodies or how long that immunity lasts.

And before the 'herd immunity' crowd cream themselves, this does NOT mean that 68.4 percent of residents have been infected, only the ones who went for testing at that clinic.

AdamD

joeguevara wrote: »

It was stated that the Swedish economy was not effected and won't tank. So high death rate, tanked economy for Sweden.

is_that_so wrote: »

It may but we knew that going in. Part of their strategy assumed the economy would not be hit badly and it has been.

There's quite a large difference between going down 4.5% and going down 10%, its certainly an 'advantage'. Economies have more states than 'tanked' and 'not tanked'...

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

An urgent care center in the (?)aptly named Corona district of Queens, New York found that 68.4 percent of people tested positive for antibodies to the new coronavirus.

It is a working class low income neighborhood, where Black and Latino residents make up a large part of the population, living in overcrowded conditions. The main sources of employment are jobs in hospitality, including restaurants, as well as construction and manufacturing... many showed up to work throughout the pandemic, elevating their risk of infection.

If New York is hit by a second wave, this district may be a natural laboratory to examine the extent of immunity conferred by the antibodies or how long that immunity lasts.

And before the 'herd immunity' crowd cream themselves, this does NOT mean that 68.4 percent of residents have been infected, only the ones who went for testing at that clinic.

The last paragraph, particularly 'cream themselves' what does that add to the conversation?

ACitizenErased

Latest testing data

Tests conducted last 24 hours: 3940
Tests conducted last 7 days: 44352
Positive tests last 24 hours: 27
Positivity rate last 7 days: 0.3%

Slight increase in positivity rate today

podgeandrodge

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

USA in the Midst of a pandemic






Europe in the Midst of a pandemic .




You'd have to agree with the American scientists, that the virus is airborne , it sure is/

Did they all take off in Europe after you took the screenshot? It looks like this right now

Ficheall

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Did they all take off in Europe after you took the screenshot? It looks like this right now

There difference being that Europe (excluding Russia) currently has ~7500 daily cases for 600million people, whereas the US has ~60000 daily cases per 330 million people...



I suspect BTW's screenshot was from when Europe was still in the throes of the pandemic - like the US is now.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

There's quite a large difference between going down 4.5% and going down 10%, its certainly an 'advantage'. Economies have more states than 'tanked' and 'not tanked'...

You seem to have completely missed the point about what they expected. That was not their plan, but it was ours. Pedantic hairsplitting aside, they will be in recession like most of the world for the rest of the year.

PixieValentine

Jeepers. Every update involving Florida just seems to get more depressing.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1281254056036577281?s=20