Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

copeyhagen

ceadaoin. wrote: »

well can you prove otherwise? Do you have the travel stats? Did you interview all the people with suitcases that youve seen to ascertain their origin? No you haven't so..

Hardly any Americans are traveling to europe right now. 5 flights is a lot less than usual. If anything its repatriations coming back to ireland or other european countries transiting through. You cant stop those, sorry.

thats a ridiculous argument, well can you prove otherwise? Do you have the travel stats? Did you interview all the people with suitcases that youve seen to ascertain their origin? No you haven't so..

Widdensushi

This talk of lockdown s is ridiculous, eamon Ryan as transport minister is allowing unnecessary travel into the country, yet they might turn around and not allow unnecessary travel out of our own homes soon

AdamD

YellowBucket wrote: »

It’s not an unreasonable worry given that we got to April’s levels in about 4 weeks and we were taking some degree of precaution in March.

While some things have changed, many haven’t & we are a mixed bag when it comes to what we are doing about social distancing and so on. Some taking it seriously. Many seem to have given up.

I was in a cafe in suburban cork yesterday and there was no evidence of any pandemic other than one, rather annoyingly hung, small plexiglass shield over the till, with people chatting away leaning around it on both sides..

It is unreasonable, we have significant chunk of the country working from home, we generally have social distancing in shops, we have a proper testing system, a tracing system, a (minor) amount of people will also have some immunity. The situation isn't the same.

hmmm

ZX7R wrote: »

I like Dr Ronan Glynn
He is repeatedly telling people we are going to have to live with the virus.
He definitely has a less fear approach to the situation but he will have his work cut out trying to convince people to live with the virus.

I think that's what's happening now. They're trying to remind people that things can't go back to "normal" - we can get back to playing sports, pubs, restaurants etc., but all these things have to be done while still maintaining social distancing.

A lot of people have just gone straight back to normal. That only happens once we get an effective vaccine.

Plumbthedepths

owlbethere wrote: »

When are some people going to cop on and stop coughing into their hands? They might as well go to the toilet and wipe their sh1tty ass with their hands for all good it does.

It's an automatic reflex, coughing into one's elbow is a learned process. If you search for things every time you go out that will annoy you, you'll find plenty. Just clean your own hands regularly you'll be fine.

caveat emptor

AdamD wrote: »

This is not normal

I'm pretty sure you are not normal. I wouldn't go outside if I were you......probably.

Of course I don't know who the **** are you. So I reserve judgement.

US2

I was in a campsite in kerry all of last week and almost every campervan and car had British plates. Yet I'm advised against going to Spain for a week. Good thing I judge the risk myself, I'm off on 27th

YellowBucket

AdamD wrote: »

It is unreasonable, we have significant chunk of the country working from home, we generally have social distancing in shops, we have a proper testing system, a tracing system, a (minor) amount of people will also have some immunity. The situation isn't the same.

Again though, I’m seeing very patchy implementation of social distancing. The pubs, most of the supermarkets, pharmacies and some others are taking it extremely seriously. A lot of other places really aren’t.

I was stopped and told to sanitise my hands, even though I already had done using my own sanitiser, on the way into AIB. Go two seconds down the street and you’ve a cafe operating exactly like they did this time last year.

My view of it based on what I’m seeing in Cork City anyway is that it’s extremely hit and miss and at least half the population and businesses are assuming there’s zero risk.

It’s better than nothing but it’s inconsistent and often not well done.

I felt we did more in many respects during the foot and mouth outbreak to be quite honest.

caveat emptor

YellowBucket wrote: »

Again though, I’m seeing very patchy implementation of social distancing. The pubs, most of the supermarkets, pharmacies and some others are taking it extremely seriously. A lot of other places really aren’t.

I was stopped and told to sanitise my hands, even though I already had done using my own sanitiser, on the way into AIB. Go two seconds down the street and you’ve a cafe operating exactly like they did this time last year.

My view of it based on what I’m seeing in Cork City anyway is that it’s extremely hit and miss and at least half the population and businesses are assuming there’s zero risk.

I'm a free man and while dr Tony can move his sheep through Dublin I'm entntitled to get locked. end of.

yawhat?

US2 wrote: »

I was in a campsite in kerry all of last week and almost every campervan and car had British plates. Yet I'm advised against going to Spain for a week. Good thing I judge the risk myself, I'm off on 27th

Look at me Mom, no hands.........

stephenjmcd

Dr Lambert bringing some realism to the disuccsion on RTE, personal responsibility being key and Dr Glynn has also been mentioning last few days.

Whereas you have Dr Scally saying the only places you could go on holidays are Iceland or the Faore Islands.

YellowBucket

caveat emptor wrote: »

I'm a free man and while dr Tony can move his sheep through Dublin I'm entntitled to get locked. end of.

So basically society be damned! Old people be damned! Pay for my pint with billions spent on combating a second wave?

Great! Well done there.

Plumbthedepths

US2 wrote: »

I was in a campsite in kerry all of last week and almost every campervan and car had British plates. Yet I'm advised against going to Spain for a week. Good thing I judge the risk myself, I'm off on 27th

Northern Ireland has allowed travel inwards from several European countries including Italy with no quarantine required. It's made a nonsense of the bs being peddled by our elected dithereers. Although I suspect the travel advisory here is more to help save the tourist sector rather than public health.

MickeyLeari

cnocbui wrote: »

He's right. The submariners on this thread don't like that sort of realistic talk.

It is about a new normal that everyone lives with. A happy medium based on caution and risk.

The biggest risk is head in sand in terms of facilitating that new normal and travel right now is the area which most needs clarification. We will need some business travel and people do have family in and outside the State.

What I would like to see:

- Temperature checking in airports on departure and arrival (it is not hugely effective but it makes people think).

- mandatory masks in airports. No mask no flying (unless there is a bona fide exception).

- advance information pre flight. No information no flight. Spain has had this for years.

- random and targeted testing on arrival.


Actions like no cabin cases - grand with that if it is a price of travel.

KrustyUCC

caveat emptor wrote: »

I'm a free man and while dr Tony can move his sheep through Dublin I'm entntitled to get locked. end of.

You've an unhealthy obsession with sheep

cnocbui

YellowBucket wrote: »

That’s not my observation of it at all. The social distancing in a lot of places has “gone out the window” and I’m hearing colleagues saying things like “ah sure we never really had any of it in Ireland anyway.”

Just to give you that cafe example:

1. Very little evidence of social distancing by customers or staff. Tables were a bit spread out but that was all.

2. No hand sanitiser on way in.

3. Shared pour-your-own milk jugs being picked up and handled by hundreds of people.

4. Not a mask in sight anywhere.

5. Basically no shielding of any type behind the counter and staff all walking right on top of each other and around each other making sandwiches and coffee without a care in the world it seems.

Did you get infected; are you all right?

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Just wait and see them start stirring **** when a vaccine is rolled out. We'll get anecdotal stories of their third cousins girlfriends nephew who took the vaccine and sprouted a pair of bollocks on his chin. There is a small cohort of people who just love calamity.

like the hundred plus who developed narcolepsy after taking Pandermix?
If even one person sprouts a bollox on their chin, it should be known as a risk anyway!

YellowBucket

KrustyUCC wrote: »

You've an unhealthy obsession with sheep

Sure if it was the foot and mouth impacting the sheep, the farmers lobby would have been having us all hosed down at the ports again.

Sheep have huge influence!

Seems though this thread is gone as bad as twitter. Can’t really have any sensible conversations about this topic.

If you raise legitimate concerns, you’re shot down.

Welcome to the 51st state!

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/bencowling88/status/1281480413249077250

Plumbthedepths

YellowBucket wrote: »

Sheep have huge influence!

Only when manipulated

Quoting the current acting chief , the Vaccine will be the fastest vaccine in the history of vaccines!!

Here's one they prepared earlier!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-27-who-claims-she-developed-narcolepsy-after-swine-flu-vaccine-settles-case-38706179.html

This was fast tracked....

YellowBucket

cnocbui wrote: »

are you all right?

Are you?

Seems we’ve reached the arguments of two extremes again: lock down vs totally open.

Reality is a pragmatic middle ground needs to be reached, minimising risks and moving the economy onwards.

Go too far towards totally open and you’ll cost us billions. Go too far towards total lockdown and you’ll also cost us billions.

Plumbthedepths

YellowBucket wrote: »

Sure if it was the foot and mouth impacting the sheep, the farmers lobby would have been having us all hosed down at the ports again.

Sheep have huge influence!

Seems though this thread is gone as bad as twitter. Can’t really have any sensible conversations about this topic.

If you raise legitimate concerns, you’re shot down.

Welcome to the 51st state!

You wish to have sensible conversation ? btw a post of yours from yesterday was excellent, your claim then today of half of Corks population and businesses( circa 64k) believe there is no risk this is anecdotal nonsense and it's difficult to contrast the two comments and believe they were from the same poster.

JDD

Given the fact that the US have bought up all stocks of Remdesevine, what are the chances they will buy all stocks of the vaccine when it is developed? There'll be killings.

LiquidZeb

rusty cole wrote: »

Quoting the current acting chief , the Vaccine will be the fastest vaccine in the history of vaccines!!

Here's one they prepared earlier!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-27-who-claims-she-developed-narcolepsy-after-swine-flu-vaccine-settles-case-38706179.html

This was fast tracked....

And here we have exhibit A.

cnocbui

YellowBucket wrote: »

Are you?

Seems we’ve reached the arguments of two extremes again: lock down vs totally open.

Reality is a pragmatic middle ground needs to be reached, minimising risks and moving the economy onwards.

Go too far towards totally open and you’ll cost us billions. Go too far towards total lockdown and you’ll also cost us billions.

I'm in favour of normality plus mask wearing in enclosed spaces. The travel industry is the single biggest industry on the planet. 10% of global employment relies on it. We can't afford to have prolonged lockdown destroy it permanently and the related jobs.

LiquidZeb

JDD wrote: »

Given the fact that the US have bought up all stocks of Remdesevine, what are the chances they will buy all stocks of the vaccine when it is developed? There'll be killings.

From what I understand Britain will get theirs first as they developed it. I'm not sure whose next in line but Astra zeneca say they can make one billion strains in 2 months so really there's enough for everyone.

ACitizenErased

rusty cole wrote: »

Quoting the current acting chief , the Vaccine will be the fastest vaccine in the history of vaccines!!

Here's one they prepared earlier!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-27-who-claims-she-developed-narcolepsy-after-swine-flu-vaccine-settles-case-38706179.html

This was fast tracked....

There’s literally 0 comparison

ACitizenErased

JDD wrote: »

Given the fact that the US have bought up all stocks of Remdesevine, what are the chances they will buy all stocks of the vaccine when it is developed? There'll be killings.

Europe have already pre-purchased 400 million doses

stephenjmcd

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From what I understand Britain will get theirs first as they developed it. I'm not sure whose next in line but Astra zeneca say they can make one billion strains in 2 months so really there's enough for everyone.

The EU collectively have already purchased 400 million doses of the Oxford Vaccine with scope for an additional 200 million should it prove successful in trials.

cnocbui

JDD wrote: »

Given the fact that the US have bought up all stocks of Remdesevine, what are the chances they will buy all stocks of the vaccine when it is developed? There'll be killings.

They could buy Remdesivir stocks because they were in the US. A vaccine will be a totally different proposition. India have the capacity to manufacture billions of doses.

YellowBucket

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You wish to have sensible conversation ? btw a post of yours from yesterday was excellent, your claim then today of half of Corks population and businesses( circa 64k) believe there is no risk this is anecdotal nonsense and it's difficult to contrast the two comments and believe they were from the same poster.

I raised an issue about an extreme and very obvious inconsistency implementation of and adherence to social distancing and hygiene measures.

My observation is that they are very patchy. Some places good (some even over the top) and others aren’t bothering and the same applies to individuals.

Without consistency this isn’t going to work very well and those who are taking it reasonably seriously will have their efforts wasted.

It’s frustrating in the extreme to walk into a cafe and find it just find nobody’s taking it seriously at all.

We spent 3 months effectively in a quasi lockdown. I saw my income go down and projects cancelled to achieve some kind of reduction in the spread of this virus and to prevent a health service melt down.

Then you go into a cafe and encounter people just back to carefree business as usual.

I want to see business flowing. I don’t want to see business stopped by a second lockdown caused by complacency of a signifiant % of the population.

There are extremely mixed messages being absorbed, mostly online and mostly from aspects of the US debate, where unfortunately, hard, real facts become debated political topics and reduced to dogmatic matters of opinion.

I genuinely do think that there’s a level of complacency emerging here.

I’m also quite confident, the colleagues who are currently not bothering to work within the guideline and sensible levels of precautions are the very same people who default to blaming “the government” (the HSE, RTE) when anything does go wrong.

YellowBucket

cnocbui wrote: »

They could buy Remdesivir stocks because they were in the US. A vaccine will be a totally different proposition. India have the capacity to manufacture billions of doses.

The more worrying scenario is where countries or health systems stockpile very broadly used drugs like dexamethasone.

There are reports of that going into short supply and it is one of the essential drugs in a lot of chemotherapy regimens.

I’m also a bit concerned about some of the rhetoric that came from Trump in the early days of this which seemed to be about finding an economic advantage based on the US obtaining exclusive access to medications, including trying to secure exclusive access to European developed vaccines at one stage as well as his withdrawal from the WHO.

It would be rather grim to see medications & vaccines being seen as tools of economic war like that.

pm1977x

cnocbui wrote: »

I'm in favour of normality plus mask wearing in enclosed spaces. The travel industry is the single biggest industry on the planet. 10% of global employment relies on it. We can't afford to have prolonged lockdown destroy it permanently and the related jobs.

Travel is 10th biggest global industry on this list, by revenue.

https://www.ibisworld.com/global/industry-trends/biggest-industries-by-revenue/

shinzon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The EU collectively have already purchased 400 million doses of the Oxford Vaccine with scope for an additional 200 million should it prove successful in trials.

Thats an awful lot of faith money to be laying out on a vaccine that isnt even out of trials yet, lot of positive noises about it but thats about all for the moment.

Shin

owlbethere

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's an automatic reflex, coughing into one's elbow is a learned process. If you search for things every time you go out that will annoy you, you'll find plenty. Just clean your own hands regularly you'll be fine.

The woman I saw coughing into her hands was working behind the counter in the local shop. She's in a place of work serving people. What she did was neglectful, pure and simple. It's not hard to cough into your elbow. I walked away from the counter and she continued to serve the next in line. She didn't stop to wash her hands or use sanitiser. She was not in a private, casual or social setting but a place of work. You can make excuses all you want for her but it's not on.

ACitizenErased

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

snotboogie

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bencowling88/status/1281480413249077250

Great post, a sobering read...

On a lighter note:

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You wish to have sensible conversation ? btw a post of yours from yesterday was excellent, your claim then today of half of Corks population and businesses( circa 64k) believe there is no risk this is anecdotal nonsense and it's difficult to contrast the two comments and believe they were from the same poster.

Cork will never shake off the auld county bounds from the 1950's population stat! That would be circa 110k :pac:

owlbethere

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The EU collectively have already purchased 400 million doses of the Oxford Vaccine with scope for an additional 200 million should it prove successful in trials.

That's good. There was news a few weeks ago about the UK going into its deepest recession not seen in 300 years which is very scary and it will have effects on us all. Hopefully their London vaccine will pull them up a bit from that deep recession black hole.

Plumbthedepths

owlbethere wrote: »

The woman I saw coughing into her hands was working behind the counter in the local shop. She's in a place of work serving people. What she did was neglectful, pure and simple. It's not hard to cough into your elbow. I walked away from the counter and she continued to serve the next in line. She didn't stop to wash her hands or use sanitiser. She was not in a private, casual or social setting but a place of work. You can make excuses all you want for her but it's not on.

I'm not making excuses, I'm stating a simple fact to you which you willing ignored. Into the hands is reflex, into the elbow needs to be learned. As I said though if you wish to see behaviour that outrages you, you will not be disappointed.

LiquidZeb

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

I had thought as much. I wonder why the Chinese government put that statement out though, or the embassy to be specific. From what I've read Kazakhstan has received a lot of Chinese investment as part of the New Silk Road.

ChelseaRentBoy

giveitholly wrote: »

Any link or reliable source for this apparent news?

Yes the transport manager of a coach company based in Dublin has been bringing them back and forth all week

owlbethere

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm not making excuses, I'm stating a simple fact to you which you willing ignored. Into the hands is reflex, into the elbow needs to be learned. As I said though if you wish to see behaviour that outrages you, you will not be disappointed.

You are making excuses for people who are rude and manerless and so quick and easy to ignore the guidelines about hygiene.

snotboogie

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

That doesn't look like a categorical denial to me at all:

In a statement on Friday, the Kazakhstan health ministry acknowledged the presence of "viral pneumonias of unspecified etiology," but denied that the outbreak was new or unknown.
It added the "unspecified" pneumonia classification followed World Health Organization guidelines "for the registration of pneumonia when the coronavirus infection is diagnosed clinically or epidemiologically but is not confirmed by laboratory testing."

So it's not unknown but they don't know what it is. 700 have died in the last month but they have followed WHO protocol....

Always interesting to see how the official Chinese response would follow up that of the embassy in Kazakhstan:

When asked about the outbreak on Friday, a spokesman for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs told reporters, "We would also like to get more information. China hopes to work together with Kazakhstan to fight the epidemic and to safeguard the two countries public health security."

Wouldn't be getting scared yet but unlike the plague in Mongolia, this is one to watch.

ACitizenErased

snotboogie wrote: »

That doesn't look like a categorical denial to me at all:



So it's not unknown but they don't know what it is. 700 have died in the last month but they have followed WHO protocol....

Always interesting to see how the official Chinese response would follow up that of the embassy in Kazakhstan:



Wouldn't be getting scared yet but unlike the plague in Mongolia, this is one to watch.

Yeaahhh I’m gonna disagree and say I’m not gonna trust the Chinese

caveat emptor

YellowBucket wrote: »

So basically society be damned! Old people be damned! Pay for my pint with billions spent on combating a second wave?

Great! Well done there.

Sarcasm Can be lost on some people. I’m in the doom monger category / realist.

JP Liz V1

AdamD wrote: »

This is not normal

Why because I don't want to catch it

I just think this year going anywhere abroad is like Russian roulette, you can't know for sure it is totally eradicated anywhere, we are hearing of more cases and surges not just in the US and UK

caveat emptor

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The Kazakhs are categorically denying the Chinese reports about unknown pneumonia. They state cases without a confirmed covid-19 lab test are always classified as such under WHO guidelines.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/kazakhstan-pneumonia-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_content=2020-07-10T07%3A00%3A04&utm_source=fbCNNi&utm_term=link&utm_medium=social

Ah hear that’s all we need. Not reading it so as to stay in my bubble.

JP Liz V1

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I had thought as much. I wonder why the Chinese government put that statement out though, or the embassy to be specific. From what I've read Kazakhstan has received a lot of Chinese investment as part of the New Silk Road.

Any Borat comment

Assetbacked

Haha, wow, just when an article attempts to argue how there is not a fear-mongering narrative about covid in Ireland, it implements a lie in the article to explain why we should not be scared. I quote from the article;

"Of the 140 cases that occurred last week, the median age was 34 years, compared to a median of 83 years for all cases that have occurred in the pandemic.".

The median age of cases (as they have been bleating on about while not publishing median age of deaths) is 48 years, 83 is the median age of deaths!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-nphet-member-denies-trying-to-scare-people-with-warnings-1.4301273

I won't bump the post as I don't have it to hand but it is important to remember that this is generally not harmful to the vast majority of people.