Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

An Ciarraioch

Somewhat "interesting" approach to the daily numbers by a Spanish TV channel - divide the stats into immigrants and the total figure:

https://twitter.com/Candeliano/status/1281511294542249984

JDD

Assetbacked wrote: »

Haha, wow, just when an article attempts to argue how there is not a fear-mongering narrative about covid in Ireland, it implements a lie in the article to explain why we should not be scared. I quote from the article;

"Of the 140 cases that occurred last week, the median age was 34 years, compared to a median of 83 years for all cases that have occurred in the pandemic.".

The median age of cases (as they have been bleating on about while not publishing median age of deaths) is 48 years, 83 is the median age of deaths!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-nphet-member-denies-trying-to-scare-people-with-warnings-1.4301273

I won't bump the post as I don't have it to hand but it is important to remember that this is generally not harmful to the vast majority of people.

I spotted that too. Of course the median age of infection has come down. Over 70's have been cocooning and are generally still in lockdown mode. Older people are more cautious. Young people are continuing to do exactly what they have been doing since March - and that amending their behaviour but not as much as everyone else.

Of course the percentage of the much smaller number of infections is in the younger age group. It's hardly a shock, nor really a matter of concern. The virus hasn't suddenly mutated so as to become more infectious to younger people. Younger people haven't significantly changed their behaviour since the restrictions lifted.

I really hate this scare-mongering stuff. Newspapers and television reporters really need to cop on and add some opinion and analysis to the figures being reported by NPHET.

Plumbthedepths

owlbethere wrote: »

You are making excuses for people who are rude and manerless and so quick and easy to ignore the guidelines about hygiene.

Ok no point responding to you further.

Plumbthedepths

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Why because I don't want to catch it

I just think this year going anywhere abroad is like Russian roulette, you can't know for sure it is totally eradicated anywhere, we are hearing of more cases and surges not just in the US and UK

You realise unless you lockdown permanently or until an effective vaccine is found no country can eradicate the virus. We either live with it and manage the consequences or accept we will be heading back to the stone age.

copeyhagen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ok no point responding to you further.

totally agree with you, few times i have been in a queue outside a shop and coughed or sneezed as normal, by mistake, without realising.

im such a failure of a human being

is_that_so

YellowBucket wrote: »

Their nationality is irrelevant if there’s any risk of them not self isolating properly. It’s *anyone* coming from an area of high and poorly managed infection that we need to be ensuring are entering Ireland as little as possible and only very safely if they have to come here.

Being Irish they do get to come home so yeah it is relevant. We'll see that green list in about a week. Random testing strikes me as a balanced approach. I'm certainly not in favour of the notion of "keep the unclean out" that some posters have already got in their heads.

Plumbthedepths

copeyhagen wrote: »

totally agree with you, few times i have been in a queue outside a shop and coughed or sneezed as normal, by mistake, without realising.

im such a failure of a human being

Don't worry someday you will obtain perfection like others have managed here.

YellowBucket

is_that_so wrote: »

Being Irish they do get to come home so yeah it is relevant. We'll see that green list in about a week. Random testing strikes me as a balanced approach. I'm certainly not in favour of the notion of "keep the unclean out" that some posters have already got in their heads.

They need to enforce a 14 day quarantine or use a proper testing protocol.
Just leaving the door wide open like this and relying on goodwill to prevent spread is a recipe for problems.

If we want to keep traffic moving - use testing and proper quarantine protocols.

Unfortunately, areas of the US have managed this extremely badly and the virus does need to be kept out.

I would also point out the USA unilaterally banned Irish people from travelling there and had no qualms about doing so. You still cannot or travel there as an “alien” (they’re fond of that term), yet we have not reciprocated.

As for Irish people coming back in. They need to be quarantined or reliably tested to ensure they aren’t carrying it.

We even prevented ourselves from moving around the country and then out of our own countries for weeks. So I’m not quite sure why are are so lax about international travel.

It’s not about keeping the “unclean” out. It’s about preventing a highly contagious and high risk disease out as much as possible.

MickeyLeari

LiquidZeb wrote: »

From what I understand Britain will get theirs first as they developed it. I'm not sure whose next in line but Astra zeneca say they can make one billion strains in 2 months so really there's enough for everyone.

Is there a difference between developed in the U.K. vs developed by the U.K.

YellowBucket

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Is there a difference between developed in the U.K. vs developed by the U.K.

AstraZeneca is. U.K.-Swedish global company and the vaccine development involved a large number of different inputs from various countries and companies.

It’s not a U.K. government initiative or something like that. The company just happens to have a big R&D centre at Cambridge.

Sesame

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

ACitizenErased

Sesame wrote: »

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

The hospitals are empty and we don’t get death data

Beanybabog

I was just listening to the radio and someone (and I didn’t catch her name but the way she was being interview sounded like a politician) said that the advice on no travel stands and that was always the intention that the “green” countries list was still supposed to be essential travel only. I don’t think anyone understood that to be the point of the green list?? It’s pointless then

spookwoman

Sesame wrote: »

Maybe wrong thread of this but you all seem to know more than me on the topic. With the increase in cases amongst youth, is this reflected the the hospitalised or death figures? I remember the daily briefings used to include the average age of those who died. Is that still accessible somewhere? It would be interesting to see if it's changing.

Go to https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/ for the briefings and then go to statement

is_that_so

YellowBucket wrote: »

They need to enforce a 14 day quarantine or use a proper testing protocol.
Just leaving the door wide open like this and relying on goodwill to prevent spread is a recipe for problems.

If we want to keep traffic moving - use testing and proper quarantine protocols.

Unfortunately, areas of the US have managed this extremely badly and the virus does need to be kept out.

I would also point out the USA unilaterally banned Irish people from travelling there and had no qualms about doing so. You still cannot or travel there as an “alien” (they’re fond of that term), yet we have not reciprocated.

As for Irish people coming back in. They need to be quarantined or reliably tested to ensure they aren’t carrying it.

We even prevented ourselves from moving around the country and then out of our own countries for weeks. So I’m not quite sure why are are so lax about international travel.

It’s not about keeping the “unclean” out. It’s about preventing a highly contagious and high risk disease out as much as possible.

A quarantine cannot be enforced, we don't have the laws for it. It also looks very bad. I linked to a story yesterday about Melbourne and how the conversation about COVID-19 had taken quite a nasty turn. It's also happening in NZ. You're veering that way. I believe that travel has accounted for 5 cases over the last week, the rest is all home-grown.

dfx-

fritzelly wrote: »

If 5 positive people pass it on to 5 other people that gives an R0 of 1 - what's hard to believe?

we would have a lot more cases. Those five would then pass it on to another 5 and another 5 and another 5.

Northern Ireland estimate is 0.3, that seems more realistic based on the low numbers.

JP Liz V1

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You realise unless you lockdown permanently or until an effective vaccine is found no country can eradicate the virus. We either live with it and manage the consequences or accept we will be heading back to the stone age.

I guess Flintstones time so

Why is it wrong to worry about your own health, your family and friends and do all possible to avoid catching it or having a second wave happen, we should be trying to prevent as much as possible so no non essential travel out and in of Ireland, stricter testing quarantine at airports etc.,

Benimar

YellowBucket wrote: »

I raised an issue about an extreme and very obvious inconsistency implementation of and adherence to social distancing and hygiene measures.

My observation is that they are very patchy. Some places good (some even over the top) and others aren’t bothering and the same applies to individuals.

Without consistency this isn’t going to work very well and those who are taking it reasonably seriously will have their efforts wasted.

It’s frustrating in the extreme to walk into a cafe and find it just find nobody’s taking it seriously at all.

We spent 3 months effectively in a quasi lockdown. I saw my income go down and projects cancelled to achieve some kind of reduction in the spread of this virus and to prevent a health service melt down.

Then you go into a cafe and encounter people just back to carefree business as usual.

I want to see business flowing. I don’t want to see business stopped by a second lockdown caused by complacency of a signifiant % of the population.

There are extremely mixed messages being absorbed, mostly online and mostly from aspects of the US debate, where unfortunately, hard, real facts become debated political topics and reduced to dogmatic matters of opinion.

I genuinely do think that there’s a level of complacency emerging here.

I’m also quite confident, the colleagues who are currently not bothering to work within the guideline and sensible levels of precautions are the very same people who default to blaming “the government” (the HSE, RTE) when anything does go wrong.

Excellent post.

There is a huge difference between living with the virus, and going on as if the virus doesn’t exist. If there are too many in the latter group (and like you I’m seeing more and more of it) then we could end up back in trouble.

People can (and will) blame the government al, they like, it still comes back to personal responsibility. See a restaurant/pub/shop not following basic guidance? Don’t go in, give a business doing their bit your business.

is_that_so

dfx- wrote: »

we would have a lot more cases. Those five would then pass it on to another 5 and another 5 and another 5.

Northern Ireland estimate is 0.3, that seems more realistic based on the low numbers.

If we had lots of cases, say 100 plus then there would be considerable concern over R0 at 1 or higher. At 25 cases and below and a good few of them already relate to known clusters, not so much.

YellowBucket

is_that_so wrote: »

A quarantine cannot be enforced, we don't have the laws for it. It also looks very bad. I linked to a story yesterday about Melbourne and how the conversation about COVID-19 had taken quite a nasty turn. It's also happening in NZ. You're veering that way. I believe that travel has accounted for 5 cases over the last week, the rest is all home-grown.

I’m not “veering” any way and I think that’s one hell of an accusation to make and I think you should withdraw it.

Australian politics in particular has a major problem with xenophobia and that seems to be what you’re suggesting.

It makes absolutely no sense to control infections here while you’ve connectivity, without checks, to regions of the world, including the United States, that haven’t got very good control of it at all.

The opening of access to and from countries with comparable or better levels of virus suppression makes a lot of sense. Having access from (and not to btw as Trump slammed a full travel ban on us back in February) Dallas for example makes absolutely no sense, unless you’re going to screen passengers properly, which we clearly aren’t doing.

There’s very little reason at this stage we couldn’t do rapid tests and also recoup the cost of those as part of the cost of a flight ticket.

They also should apply to all people travelling from areas with high levels of community transmission, including Irish citizens. The virus doesn’t give a damn what is written on your passport, where you were born, what your citizenship is, what the purpose of your travel is. It’s just a virus.

We should be coordinating tightly with Schengen on this and we aren’t.

The U.K. should be too, but no doubt they won’t and, based on experience of how the Tories have behaved, could well political decide to do something totally counterproductive.

The reality is if we are going to open up global travel to normality, we need mass testing technology available.

We could well still be facing major issues in 12 months time depending on effectiveness and uptake of vaccines for example.

Plumbthedepths

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I guess Flintstones time so

Why is it wrong to worry about your own health, your family and friends and do all possible to avoid catching it or having a second wave happen, we should be trying to prevent as much as possible so no non essential travel out and in of Ireland, stricter testing quarantine at airports etc.,

Nothing wrong with protecting your health but some realism needs to be accept aswell.
Not everyone living in Ireland enjoy the company of their family here. Would their travel not be considered essential?
Do you suggest to restrict the movements of others for an indefinite period of time. Does your concerns supercede the rights of others?
No reason why people should not practice the measures suggested by Nphet/WHO but life has to go on. Although if you wish to regress to cave dwelling your choice.

Jay Dee

Hi,

May not be for here relocate if needed.

Every day we get "X" number of new cases.
Is there any way of identifying where in the country they were ?.

Thanks

Jay

stephenjmcd

Jay Dee wrote: »

Hi,

May not be for here relocate if needed.

Every day we get "X" number of new cases.
Is there any way of identifying where in the country they were ?.

Thanks

Jay

Perfectly suited for here. Yup it lags about 2 days behind but yeah there does be a number given on cases per county. Comes out of HPSC data.

Citizen erased usually puts it up most evenings, he's on the ball when it comes to the stats

US2

If you're scared or vulnerable stay at home, everyone else should be allowed do what they like and go where they like. I really don't understand the logic in restrictions on the whole population.

Itssoeasy

Beanybabog wrote: »

I was just listening to the radio and someone (and I didn’t catch her name but the way she was being interview sounded like a politician) said that the advice on no travel stands and that was always the intention that the “green” countries list was still supposed to be essential travel only. I don’t think anyone understood that to be the point of the green list?? It’s pointless then

Well that's good it's been clarified. I mean unless and until the public health advice is something other than "essential travel only" nobody should be going abroad in my opinion.

Also, just looking at the graph of cases we had 46 cases one day in June even with the "rise" the curve is still flat and there is no visible spike or otherwise and I remembered last night why I'd more of less stopped reading this thread. I'll stick to the rte website again. All of us have been in the same position for months now so nobody's opinion is any more or less valid than anyone else. The last few months have been an utter cluster**** and thankfully we have done a great job as a nation of bringing the virus undercontrol and the line looks like a dog bumping it's hole off the ground.
We should all remain careful but we can't keep under lock and key indefinitely. That's not good economically and more importantly physically and mentally for the country.

is_that_so

YellowBucket wrote: »

I’m not “veering” any way and I think that’s one hell of an accusation to make and I think you should withdraw it.

It makes absolutely no sense to control infections here while you’ve connectivity, without checks, to regions of the world, including the United States, that haven’t got very good control of it at all.

The opening of access to and from countries with comparable or better levels of virus suppression makes a lot of sense. Having access from (and not to btw) Dallas for example makes absolutely no sense, unless you’re going to screen passengers properly, which we clearly aren’t doing.

We should be coordinating tightly with Schengen on this and we aren’t.

The U.K. should be too, but no doubt they won’t and, based on experience of how the Tories have behaved, could well political decide to do something totally counterproductive.

I'm not sure why you're so outraged when you clearly want to keep people out or use forced quarantine. Travel has not caused huge problems anywhere with numbers, there certainly have been blips, most of which were brought under control.

tom1ie

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's an automatic reflex, coughing into one's elbow is a learned process. If you search for things every time you go out that will annoy you, you'll find plenty. Just clean your own hands regularly you'll be fine.

You forgot, socially distance. You forgot wear a mask in enclosed spaces.
If we are giving advice let’s give it to the fullest

YellowBucket

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're so outraged when you clearly want to keep people out or use forced quarantine. Travel has not caused huge problems anywhere with numbers, there certainly have been blips, most of which were brought under control.

What I want is to see proper controls at airports, perhaps a move toward testing which could facilitate safe travel.

I don’t appreciate having words put in my mouth like that!

tom1ie

YellowBucket wrote: »

I’m not “veering” any way and I think that’s one hell of an accusation to make and I think you should withdraw it.

Australian politics in particular has a major problem with xenophobia and that seems to be what you’re suggesting.

It makes absolutely no sense to control infections here while you’ve connectivity, without checks, to regions of the world, including the United States, that haven’t got very good control of it at all.

The opening of access to and from countries with comparable or better levels of virus suppression makes a lot of sense. Having access from (and not to btw as Trump slammed a full travel ban on us back in February) Dallas for example makes absolutely no sense, unless you’re going to screen passengers properly, which we clearly aren’t doing.

There’s very little reason at this stage we couldn’t do rapid tests and also recoup the cost of those as part of the cost of a flight ticket.

They also should apply to all people travelling from areas with high levels of community transmission, including Irish citizens. The virus doesn’t give a damn what is written on your passport, where you were born, what your citizenship is, what the purpose of your travel is. It’s just a virus.

We should be coordinating tightly with Schengen on this and we aren’t.

The U.K. should be too, but no doubt they won’t and, based on experience of how the Tories have behaved, could well political decide to do something totally counterproductive.

The reality is if we are going to open up global travel to normality, we need mass testing technology available.

We could well still be facing major issues in 12 months time depending on effectiveness and uptake of vaccines for example.

Ah listen I wouldn’t get too worked up about some of the replies on here. There’s a certain cohort that are pretty much WUM at this stage and shout down any view that isn’t over 95% optimistic.
Any negativity draws a large reaction here.

FishOnABike

Beanybabog wrote: »

I was just listening to the radio and someone (and I didn’t catch her name but the way she was being interview sounded like a politician) said that the advice on no travel stands and that was always the intention that the “green” countries list was still supposed to be essential travel only. I don’t think anyone understood that to be the point of the green list?? It’s pointless then

The point of a 'green list' is that people will be able to travel to them and return without being required to self quarantine for two weeks. Non essential travel is still advised against though.

Travel from a non 'green list' country and a person would require to self quarantine for two weeks.

The distinction between 'green list' and 'non greenlist' countries regarding the requirement to self quarantine might be significant if a person needed to travel for urgent personal or work reasons.

hmmm

US2 wrote: »

If you're scared or vulnerable stay at home, everyone else should be allowed do what they like and go where they like. I really don't understand the logic in restrictions on the whole population.

We can't allow hospitals to become overwhelmed, and the models show that this will happen even if we ask everyone who is particularly vulnerable to stay hidden. This disease will also affect people who are not high risk. You might not care what happens to you, but some ICU doctor or nurse is potentially going to risk their health to save you whether you like it or not.

Besides which unless we round up everyone over 65, or with a comorbidity, and isolate them on island, there is no way to protect everyone who needs to be protected. They live in family groups, they go to work, they visit doctors, dentists etc.

tom1ie

US2 wrote: »

If you're scared or vulnerable stay at home, everyone else should be allowed do what they like and go where they like. I really don't understand the logic in restrictions on the whole population.

What if your healthy but you live with vulnerable people?
What’s your advice here?

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1281562141540130816?s=21

irishlad123456

Can’t believe all the doom and gloom about the media this past week, these professors and immunologists constantly talking about a second lockdown, we are getting and average of 14 cases a day!!! That’s less that one in every county, this will be around for ages why do some people expect it to just disappear

tom1ie

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1281562141540130816?s=21

Hmmm, what’s the logic here? Have they pinned all their hope on the oxford vaccine that they plan to keep for themselves or do they own the development of that vaccine? Or is it a private company that’s developing that vaccine?

spookwoman

hmmm wrote: »

We can't allow hospitals to become overwhelmed, and the models show that this will happen even if we ask everyone who is particularly vulnerable to stay hidden. This disease will also affect people who are not high risk. You might not care what happens to you, but some ICU doctor or nurse is potentially going to risk their health to save you whether you like it or not.

Besides which unless we round up everyone over 65, or with a comorbidity, and isolate them on island, there is no way to protect everyone who needs to be protected. They live in family groups, they go to work, they visit doctors, dentists etc.

And there are people also becoming very ill, with permanent organ damage who don't have underlying health problems. This virus doesn't care if you are young and healthy.

stephenjmcd

tom1ie wrote: »

Hmmm, what’s the logic here? Have they pinned all their hope on the oxford vaccine that they plan to keep for themselves or do they own the development of that vaccine? Or is it a private company that’s developing that vaccine?

They basically won't have access to whatever vaccines supply the EU purchase which so far is 400m doses of Oxford vaccine with the potential for 200m more.

They'll go out on their own and buy their own supplies and negotiate the deal themselves with whatever supplier they want, be it oxford or J&J etc.

Its more of the we're out of the EU we don't need your help crap

Plumbthedepths

irishlad123456 wrote: »

Can’t believe all the doom and gloom about the media this past week, these professors and immunologists constantly talking about a second lockdown, we are getting and average of 14 cases a day!!! That’s less that one in every county, this will be around for ages why do some people expect it to just disappear

It depends who you listen to. Several of the experts want the virus eradicated but don't care about the societal or economic damage. Other experts believe we have to live with the virus and minimise the risks as much as possible but stil allowing life to continue.

Jackman25

spookwoman wrote: »

And there are people also becoming very ill, with permanent organ damage who don't have underlying health problems. This virus doesn't care if you are young and healthy.

How many?

tom1ie

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They basically won't have access to whatever vaccines supply the EU purchase which so far is 400m doses of Oxford vaccine with the potential for 200m more.

They'll go out on their own and buy their own supplies and negotiate the deal themselves with whatever supplier they want, be it oxford of J&J etc

That’s crazy! Unless they have stocks hidden away somewhere or it could be that they are cutting off their nose to spite their face by just not wanting to be part of anything to do with the eu, which is grossly irresponsible for their citizens.
Nuts.

tom1ie

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It depends who you listen to. Several of the experts want the virus eradicated but don't care about the societal or economic damage. Other experts believe we have to live with the virus and minimise the risks as much as possible but stil allowing life to continue.

Yep. But even with second option views differ. Some advocate masks, some not so. Some looking for mandatory quarantine for incoming tourists (from hotspots) others not so.

pjohnson

spookwoman wrote: »

And there are people also becoming very ill, with permanent organ damage who don't have underlying health problems. This virus doesn't care if you are young and healthy.

This has been pointed out for months and the same dopes still think young = immune.

Plumbthedepths

spookwoman wrote: »

And there are people also becoming very ill, with permanent organ damage who don't have underlying health problems. This virus doesn't care if you are young and healthy.

What percentage of those infected and hospitalised have experienced what you have said above?
We are all aware the virus makes no distinction between age but it is fact it has devastating consequences for the elderly in comparison for the young.

is_that_so

tom1ie wrote: »

That’s crazy! Unless they have stocks hidden away somewhere or unless they are cutting off their nose to spite their face by just not wanting to be part of anything to do with the eu, which is grossly irresponsible for their citizens.
Nuts.

It is and it isn't. Considering where they'll be in the near future it makes sense to them.

stephenjmcd

tom1ie wrote: »

That’s crazy! Unless they have stocks hidden away somewhere or unless they are cutting off their nose to spite their face by just not wanting to be part of anything to do with the eu, which is grossly irresponsible for their citizens.
Nuts.

its pigheadedness. Its more of the we've left the EU we'll do it our own way sh1te. We'll do our own deals brexit means brexit...

In this case I'd rather have the EU support than be out on my own but they can't be seen to be at that

Plumbthedepths

tom1ie wrote: »

Yep. But even with second option views differ. Some advocate masks, some not so. Some looking for mandatory quarantine for incoming tourists (from hotspots) others not so.

Which leads you back to doing what you feel is best based on acceptable advice and risk.

tom1ie

is_that_so wrote: »

It is and it isn't. Considering where they'll be in the near future it makes sense to them.

As in out of the eu? But I mean blocking yourself off from a potential vaccine so that you make a point is absolutely brain numbingly stupid.

Plumbthedepths

Jackman25 wrote: »

How many?

Very few but if you listened to some news sources you would believe it was every individual who contracted the virus.

YellowBucket

I’m guessing a flag emblazoned Dyson vaccine machine that injects you at your local Witherspoons is on its way then!

tom1ie

YellowBucket wrote: »

I’m guessing a flag emblazoned Dyson vaccine machine that injects you at your local Witherspoons is on its way then!

Yes, operated by Jeremy clarkson.