Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Lyle

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's an argument fine

Denmark have schools and pubs etc opened

No real second wave

They had 76 cases 29 June and 47 on 6th of July

Cases will go up and down

If they want the schools open here all they need do is say the schools open on time

No ifs no buts no maybes and its time teachers get back to work

The problem is that the government don't want to do what Denmark are doing, nor can they really. As far as I know the Danes have schools attending in reduced numbers, with kids in pods of a dozen or half dozen, along with outdoor learning where possible and designated shifts for students. Our lot want everyone back in all at once as much as is feasible and we don't have the classroom space to split up classes, on top of the fact that a lot of school buildings are not fit for purpose anyway and it doesn't sound like we have a large pool of spare teachers floating around the place either to deal with overspill from reduced numbers in classrooms or if teachers get sick or have bad underlying health conditions or anything else.

Teachers want to go back to work, because blended learning is a pile of sh*te and stressed everyone out, but the unions and the teachers/SNAs/Principals/admin staff all want, need and deserve guarantees around funding and detailed guidelines and safety measures before anything is made concrete and these must come from the Department of Education. The DoE is, unfortunately, run by a bunch of f*cking useless sh*theads based on their performance so far.

There is no other comparable working environment to a classroom full of 20 - 30 lunatic children and it is without a doubt the most difficult facet of society to safely handle as we proceed through the pandemic. You can't just fling the schools open without very detailed provisions (the DoE have delayed in delivering these for months now) and a new budget that could easily need to run into the hundreds of millions. It's a disaster waiting to happen if its not handled correctly, and as I've said, the DoE is sh*t!

What Username Guidelines

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

I had the same thought tbh but people go to pubs to relax and unwind. If the rules remove some of the atmosphere, you’ve got your mates, your drinks, but it doesn’t feel the same as it used to. Then the pub loses its draw and a house party is a way to relax. I’m not saying don’t open them, I’m not a massive drinker so don’t hold too much of an opinion. But open or closed, house parties will happen because, like pubs used to be, it’s a place to unwind, socialise, and let go after spending a day or week in work, a place with “rules” and “guidelines”.

timsey tiger

Lyle wrote: »

The problem is that the government don't want to do what Denmark are doing, nor can they really.

They have also closed their border with their problem neighbour which we don,'t want to either.

Atlantic Dawn

Nearly 60k new cases already in US today, wtf are they at?

s1ippy

Just 20k cases until 1% of the American population has tested positive. The CDC reckon that's 10-20% of the actual cases.

timsey tiger

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

Voltairey

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

The best way to stop house parties is to open up the pubs. Release clear guidelines now and allow pubs put them in place where they follow them to the letter. Make laws with harsh penalties if warned and still not addressed. At least they are controlled environments and people entering have details collected for contact tracing. House parties have zero control on them and there would probably be people waking up the next day and not even having a clue where they **** they were the night before.

Personally when the pubs close I'm raring for a gaf to go back to... Keep her lit.

That said haven't been out in a while so the new normal me hasn't tested the waters yet. But I'd imagine the people partying can't afford the pubs anyway. Like myself

ACitizenErased

timsey tiger wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

That's a fair point. You could argue both ways.
House party - likely you know each other, likely a once off event.
Pub - don't know others but there is a contact tracing log in place (hopefully anyway) and you may or may not return a number of times.

Wolf359f

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Hse report out for the day, no change, 11 in hospital + 9 in ICU.

No cases detected in hospitals in last 24 hrs.

That has to be the first time in a long time with no new admissions?
New cases are up and down and I can understand both sides of the argument, but with cases so low and increase can seem like a lot. The hospital figures are certainly encouraging.
I can only imagine all hospital staff's reaction when they were seeing 500+ cases a day being announced, knowing they will see increases in hospitals a week later. Had to have be demoralizing for them.

Goldengirl

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

And a relative working in a nursing home here has been tested several times. Strange.

Nursing homes getting regularly tested .
Hospital staff only if dealing with Covid patients or close contact with a newly diagnosed case .
Should be screened regularly you would think .

fritzelly

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Nearly 60k new cases already in US today, wtf are they at?

WHO should come out and advise against all travel to Brazil and America

Neamhshuntasach

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

I had the same thought tbh but people go to pubs to relax and unwind. If the rules remove some of the atmosphere, you’ve got your mates, your drinks, but it doesn’t feel the same as it used to. Then the pub loses its draw and a house party is a way to relax. I’m not saying don’t open them, I’m not a massive drinker so don’t hold too much of an opinion. But open or closed, house parties will happen because, like pubs used to be, it’s a place to unwind, socialise, and let go after spending a day or week in work, a place with “rules” and “guidelines”.

Oh you won't fully eliminate house parties. People will always have those. And even with pubs open, people will still probably go back to houses after the pub.

But you'd have to imagine they won't be as frequent or with as many people. Even with a different atmosphere. People will still go to the pub. All it takes is one or two in the group to suggest it. And others will follow.

I've recently had 2 get together with a handful of mates. All outside in the back garden and keeping the distance. Bought a keg and rented the taps. Was great to relax and have a pint of Guinness. After both events I had a night in a pub that followed the measures to a T. And even with those, it still felt relaxed and could chill in that environment with proper barmen pouring a pint. Not the biggest drinker myself but mates I was with would be. And any reservations they had were done away with.

ACitizenErased

Wolf359f wrote: »

That has to be the first time in a long time with no new admissions?
New cases are up and down and I can understand both sides of the argument, but with cases so low and increase can seem like a lot. The hospital figures are certainly encouraging.
I can only imagine all hospital staff's reaction when they were seeing 500+ cases a day being announced, knowing they will see increases in hospitals a week later. Had to have be demoralizing for them.

As far as I know there were less than 5 cases detected in hospitals all week

JP Liz V1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Nearly 60k new cases already in US today, wtf are they at?

dobman88 wrote: »

I've a friend in Dublin whose mother has a friend visiting from Florida. First place they plan to visit? Kerry. Florida has seen a massive surge in cases and is one of the worst affected areas. This person wont be quarantining.

Gardai will be raiding pubs and local businesses this weekend but tourists from countries with cases surging upwards are being flown here by the plane load. It's ridiculous.

.

Rob A. Bank

Re house parties... The Australian fried chicken farce.

KFC birthday party in Melbourne costs $26,000 in Covid-19 fines after police track order

A run for KFC in Melbourne has led to a $26,000 (£14,360) lockdown fine for a group of birthday partygoers.

The infringement of stay-at-home directions was discovered after two people ordered about 20 meals at a KFC store in Dandenong about 1.30am on Friday.

The large order raised suspicion among ambulance workers at the store, who notified police of their concern.

Police followed their car to a townhouse in the suburb where they found a group of people who then tried to hide in the backyard, garage and under beds.

“That’s $26,000 that birthday party is costing them. That’s a heck of a birthday party to recall and they’ll remember that one for a long time.”

Wolf359f

timsey tiger wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

I'm sorry but one of the participants could be infected without knowing it and infect everyone. Pubs may be risky, but there's sober people there in charge to enforce some kind of social distancing, in a house party there won't be.

It's very naive to assume a house party is safer than a pub just because people know each other and there's no outsiders introducing the virus.

Goldengirl

Martina1991 wrote: »

Patients are tested in ED before being transfered to a ward.
Patients are tested before all surgeries now, and probably other procedures in areas like ENT.
Patients are tested before being discharged to a residential facility.
They all add up.






Nursing home staff are being tested regularly due to the targeted testing in those facilities. Given a large portion of our deaths occurred there, they are practically vulnerable.

Hospital healthcare workers are not tested routinely. There are tens of thousands of staff. It would clog the system to test everyone over and over again.

Only those with symptoms or those who have been in contact with a confirmed case are tested.

Thanks Martina 1991, just seeing this now after throwing in a similar comment .

What Username Guidelines

Wolf359f wrote: »

That has to be the first time in a long time with no new admissions?
New cases are up and down and I can understand both sides of the argument, but with cases so low and increase can seem like a lot. The hospital figures are certainly encouraging.
I can only imagine all hospital staff's reaction when they were seeing 500+ cases a day being announced, knowing they will see increases in hospitals a week later. Had to have be demoralizing for them.

Probably being a bit pedantic, but there probably some admissions even though numbers remain the same, as some will have been discharged today. But if there were admissions they were already confirmed cases that maybe got worse, as the report says that all tests ran in hospitals were negative.

Overall though yes, the hospital and ICU numbers stabilising at a very low level are very encouraging. They had plummeted last week each day and now are settling. Probably won’t be much, if any, reduction at the weekend.

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

WHO should come out and advise against all travel to Brazil and America

I think even the guys on the street know not to travel to America or Brazil, but it would be ironic if they did advise against travel to America, after Trumps spat with them and his ban on travel from effected areas, mainly China initially.

Goldengirl

fritzelly wrote: »

So even tho 15 cases the other day were from travel but they won't stop people arriving without quarantine the whole country has to suffer because a few idiots had a party (not the first and not the last)

This new government is a bumbling mess

So you and all those who thanked your post blame the government...not the idiots as you say , having the parties ?

Neamhshuntasach

timsey tiger wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so down on house parties. They must be far safer than pubs. All participants know each other, with no possibility of an outside person introducing the virus into the group.

Where do you all think those tourists from America and such go to unwind when here.

Depends on definition of house party. I don't think gatherings of 5 or 6 mates are going to be causing huge spikes. I know of parties during all of this with 30+ people. And it's not all just close mates where everyone knows each other. It's mates of mates also at it. If a pub follows guidelines. People are distanced form each other. Not a hope a huge party is going to have people up in each others face.

mandrake04

spookwoman wrote: »

Tests cost about €200 each https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-tests-cost-the-state-200-each-says-taoiseach-1.4264130

If people avail of testing it means a better handle on who is infected and who may be spreading, at least this way it can help nip it in the bud before it gets worse. If left unchecked it would cost the state more in hospital bills with more people infected and needing medical care. More people infected also means more chance of another lockdown.

timsey tiger wrote: »

So €20m a week for the 100k target and that's probably. just the marginal cost.

I'm not disputing your point that more testing would pick up more cases and that this would be a good thing.

I think that it would be preferable to target our testing and reorganise our testing system on a more sustainable manner than was put in place in a rush at the outset, than push for the max number of tests now when in all likelihood all this would do is increase the proportion of negatives given the current low levels of the virus.

Was talking about this on another thread, that €200 seems an excessive cost compared to other advanced western countries like Australia who's private commercial labs who do about 50% of the testing calculated minimal cost end-to-end was $75 (€45) but agreed on $100 (€60) per test and the cost in public hospitals $50 (€30) per test.

€200 per test is a great rort, some bastard is pocketing great coin somewhere.

road_high

Wolf359f wrote: »

That has to be the first time in a long time with no new admissions?
New cases are up and down and I can understand both sides of the argument, but with cases so low and increase can seem like a lot. The hospital figures are certainly encouraging.
I can only imagine all hospital staff's reaction when they were seeing 500+ cases a day being announced, knowing they will see increases in hospitals a week later. Had to have be demoralizing for them.

I doubt many of the new case young people require hospitalisation or anything close

s1ippy

Goldengirl wrote: »

So you and all those who thanked your post blame the government...not the idiots as you say , having the parties ?

I feel sorry for them. I was mental in my early 20s. Dunno what I'd have done in this situation. Probably just said fuckit and thrown caution to the wind, if I'm honest.

They haven't even had a chance at life yet.

Goldengirl

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you remember the stories in the media coming up to each bank holiday weekend and after. I think I counted at least 3 second waves because people went 100 metres outside of the 2km zone, at the time.
The bs harks back to our school days the threat of detention due to the behaviour of a few. It's actually pathetic and insulting.

Time to forget the traumas of your school days . This is not the same .
The behaviour of a few in this instance can soon mean doubling of infection rates every few days unless nipped in the bud .

timsey tiger

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm sorry but one of the participants could be infected without knowing it and infect everyone. Pubs may be risky, but there's sober people there in charge to enforce some kind of social distancing, in a house party there won't be.

It's very naive to assume a house party is safer than a pub just because people know each other and there's no outsiders introducing the virus.

There is risk in everything.

What is naive is to believe that the low and minimum wage staff will be enforcing social distancing on anyone minded to breach it in a pub situation.

Wolf359f

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Probably being a bit pedantic, but there probably some admissions even though numbers remain the same, as some will have been discharged today. But if there were admissions they were already confirmed cases that maybe got worse, as the report says that all tests ran in hospitals were negative.

Overall though yes, the hospital and ICU numbers stabilising at a very low level are very encouraging. They had plummeted last week each day and now are settling. Probably won’t be much, if any, reduction at the weekend.

Well it states zero "Total Confirmed COVID-19 Cases (Past 24 Hours)" I would assume that means admissions. And confirmed cases at 8am, 2pm and 8pm are all zero, so it reads like zero admissions.
But I'll admit it's not as simple and can be confusing to read at times.

They mention 11 in hospital and of the 11, 9 are in ICU, that's how the press conference mentions it. However, St. Vincent's & Mercy have 1 each in ICU and zero for confirmed cases in hospital. Meaning it's 11 (in wards) + 9 (in ICU) - 20 total in hospital.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That's a fair point. You could argue both ways.
House party - likely you know each other, likely a once off event.
Pub - don't know others but there is a contact tracing log in place (hopefully anyway) and you may or may not return a number of times.

Of course and not all pubs and parties are the same.

Some are apparently epic.

AdamD

Genuinely, 4-5 months on from the outbreak, did people seriously expect the public to still refrain from socialising? Nothing the government does now will stop house parties, its against human nature to restrict social activity for this long. And you can go on about 'responsible' gatherings all you want but nobody is going to their mates house and sitting 2 metres apart at all times.

fritzelly

Goldengirl wrote: »

So you and all those who thanked your post blame the government...not the idiots as you say , having the parties ?

Dealing with possible infections in a house party in this country where we have minimal positive cases is one thing - letting other possibly infected persons from a country where the virus is rampant is a whole different ball game

And attack the post not people who have the same thinking as me.

ACitizenErased

timsey tiger wrote: »

Of course and not all pubs and parties are the same.

Some are apparently epic.

The majority of house parties I've been at (and I've been at quite a few) have had very little strangers if any at them tbh

timsey tiger

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Oh you won't fully eliminate house parties. People will always have those. And even with pubs open, people will still probably go back to houses after the pub.

But you'd have to imagine they won't be as frequent or with as many people. Even with a different atmosphere. People will still go to the pub. All it takes is one or two in the group to suggest it. And others will follow.

I've recently had 2 get together with a handful of mates. All outside in the back garden and keeping the distance. Bought a keg and rented the taps. Was great to relax and have a pint of Guinness. After both events I had a night in a pub that followed the measures to a T. And even with those, it still felt relaxed and could chill in that environment with proper barmen pouring a pint. Not the biggest drinker myself but mates I was with would be. And any reservations they had were done away with.

But I'd hardly call 105 minutes a night in a pub.

JP Liz V1

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Eighty-people-travelled-from-Carrigaline-to-Bandon-for-house-party-a1c7f7bd-f752-40e2-b701-30f45605bc7d-ds

Bandon, Waterford, Kildare

pjohnson

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Re house parties... The Australian fried chicken farce.

KFC birthday party in Melbourne costs $26,000 in Covid-19 fines after police track order

A run for KFC in Melbourne has led to a $26,000 (£14,360) lockdown fine for a group of birthday partygoers.

The infringement of stay-at-home directions was discovered after two people ordered about 20 meals at a KFC store in Dandenong about 1.30am on Friday.

The large order raised suspicion among ambulance workers at the store, who notified police of their concern.

Police followed their car to a townhouse in the suburb where they found a group of people who then tried to hide in the backyard, garage and under beds.

“That’s $26,000 that birthday party is costing them. That’s a heck of a birthday party to recall and they’ll remember that one for a long time.”

Brilliant for them! They might actually learn something.

ACitizenErased

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Eighty-people-travelled-from-Carrigaline-to-Bandon-for-house-party-a1c7f7bd-f752-40e2-b701-30f45605bc7d-ds

Bandon, Waterford, Kildare

As far as I know this is not the party that had trouble. I say this because I actually know one of the people being tested as a contact from the party and it took place in Timoleague/Barryroe. It was a group of friends.

Plumbthedepths

Goldengirl wrote: »

Time to forget the traumas of your school days . This is not the same .
The behaviour of a few in this instance can soon mean doubling of infection rates every few days unless nipped in the bud .

It would be better if you addressed the content of my comment instead of turning it personal.

Wolf359f

timsey tiger wrote: »

There is risk in everything.

What is naive is to believe that the low and minimum wage staff will be enforcing social distancing on anyone minded to breach it in a pub situation.

Yeah cause a house party doesn't have to worry about health and safety, Inspections, Garda checks and having their licence risked. Yet a pub is more risky than a house party.... go figure. 1 is a licenced business, with a duty to care for employees and customers (yes I know that's funny) but it's a damn bit different than a house party.

timsey tiger

Goldengirl wrote: »

Nursing homes getting regularly tested .
Hospital staff only if dealing with Covid patients or close contact with a newly diagnosed case .
Should be screened regularly you would think .

Yes you would, patents aren't the only vectors of covid 19 into hospitals.

timsey tiger

Wolf359f wrote: »

Yeah cause a house party doesn't have to worry about health and safety, Inspections, Garda checks and having their licence risked. Yet a pub is more risky than a house party.... go figure. 1 is a licenced business, with a duty to care for employees and customers (yes I know that's funny) but it's a damn bit different than a house party.

That explains the receipt for 31 pints and a portion of chicken wings doing the rounds a few days back.

Assetbacked

pjohnson wrote: »

Brilliant for them! They might actually learn something.

If you eat meat, you caused covid.

There is this hypocritical bias in favour of eating cows, pigs and sheep in Ireland while we condemn the obscure and exotic animals eaten in China and the practices that are suspected to have lead to covid.

If you eat animals, **** you. **** you in particular those that eat animals and call for continued or more restrictions to combat covid.

Goldengirl

s1ippy wrote: »

I feel sorry for them. I was mental in my early 20s. Dunno what I'd have done in this situation. Probably just said fuckit and thrown caution to the wind, if I'm honest.

They haven't even had a chance at life yet.

His words , not mine .
It's an awful thing to happen in any young person's lifetime, when their whole life is centred around social life and their friends , I agree .

JP Liz V1

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As far as I know this is not the party that had trouble. I say this because I actually know one of the people being tested as a contact from the party and it took place in Timoleague/Barryroe. It was a group of friends.

The GAA clubs party?

Goldengirl

fritzelly wrote: »

Dealing with possible infections in a house party in this country where we have minimal positive cases is one thing - letting other possibly infected persons from a country where the virus is rampant is a whole different ball game

And attack the post not people who have the same thinking as me.

I am attacking the post .
Very much .
I agree re letting people in from another country and have said so ,time and again . But the post I replied to was blaming the government for house parties?

Neamhshuntasach

timsey tiger wrote: »

But I'd hardly call 105 minutes a night in a pub.

Pub had tables 2 meters apart. So no time limit. Went about 6.30 and left when they closed about 10.

Goldengirl

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It would be better if you addressed the content of my comment instead of turning it personal.

If you read the post you will see I did address the content.

Edit. It would be better if you didn't take any and every comment so personally.

Wolf359f

timsey tiger wrote: »

That explains the receipt for 31 pints and a portion of chicken wings doing the rounds a few days back.

I guess we just have to see where the clusters are appearing and how many they can contain in the future. I trust a small country pub would be able to be contained as a cluster more successfully than a house party.

Also any pub linked to a cluster may have to be closed down for a while, maybe it takes a few before the rest get their act in order.
The 31 pints receipt, I'll admit, I was sickened to see.

fritzelly

Goldengirl wrote: »

I am attacking the post .
Very much .
I agree re letting people in from another country and have said so ,time and again . But the post I replied to was blaming the government for house parties?

Why bring in about people who thanked the post

Maybe you should reread it - the whole point was the government not doing anything about (American) tourists coming here

Assetbacked

Wolf359f wrote: »

I guess we just have to see where the clusters are appearing and how many they can contain in the future. I trust a small country pub would be able to be contained as a cluster more successfully than a house party.

Also any pub linked to a cluster may have to be closed down for a while, maybe it takes a few before the rest get their act in order.
The 31 pints receipt, I'll admit, I was sickened to see.

The headlines earlier this week about UK pubs closing after the reopening was nnot because of the crowds that appeared all ove the place around the UK. Staff and family members of staff contracted covid and they were closed as a precaution.

So closing down a pub is a good headline but it doesn't mean much without explanation. Watch this space, undoubtedly we will have headlines about pubs being closed once they reopen for supposed failure to adhere to the guidance.

ACitizenErased

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

The GAA clubs party?

It wasn’t a GAA club party it was a party in which two club players attended.

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1281724042878361603?s=21