Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

caveat emptor

fritzelly wrote: »

Maybe you should find another pastime instead of stalking people on instagram

We all know they are coming here

Haha. Yeah the second one isn't though. I'm sure every other American who is here on holiday is doing the right thing. Seems very likely. You can shove your staycation up your hole as you are more likely to bump into one of these asymptomatic lunatics.

So are we ok with that?
I'm not actually. I don't know why the fvck we locked down and I won't be doing it again.
I won't be going along with the clap for healthcare worker bull**** either when we let anyone in who can afford a flight to leave the **** show at home. Mixing them all up in a non socially distant metal tube to then go forth a propagate. We're actually helping it spread.

It really is ridiculous and duplicitous that we can't go on holiday.

caveat emptor

fritzelly wrote: »

Maybe you should find another pastime instead of stalking people on instagram or stick to twitter

We all know they are coming here

Maybe you should give a crap about the people who died.
Maybe you should give a crap about the healthcare workers who went through hell and contracted while treating people who needed help.
This is reckless in the extreme.

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

Haha. Yeah the second one isn't though. I'm sure every other American who is here on holiday is doing the right thing. Seems very likely. You can shove your staycation up your hole as you are more likely to bump into one of these asymptomatic lunatics.

So are we ok with that?
I'm not actually. I don't know why the fvck we locked down and I won't be doing it again.
I won't be going along with the clap for healthcare worker bull**** either when we let anyone in who can afford a flight to leave the **** show at home. Mixing them all up in a non socially distant metal tube to then go forth a propagate. We're actually helping it spread.

It really is ridiculous and duplicitous that we can't go on holiday.

Oh I agree with you - anyone can come here but we're told stay in Ireland - BS of the highest order

caveat emptor wrote: »

Maybe you should give a crap about the people who died.
Maybe you should give a crap about the healthcare workers who went through hell and contracted while treating people who needed help.
This is reckless in the extreme.

And you just went to an whole other level with that

Wolf359f

Goldengirl wrote: »

I agree with you and at least the restrictions are eased now a bit for all concerned.
But I have to agree with the op (sigh) that it is difficult for some more than others .
I too have kids in teens and early twenties , and while they are sticking pretty much to the restrictions , they are finding it harder and one was particularly upset over it recently .
We never had something in our lives like this ,and the uncertainty of when it is going to end is the worst thing to bear for everyone , but especially the younger age groups imo.
I think most have been great about it and are pretty resilient, but it is bound to have some ill effect if it goes on too much longer .
Doesn't mean we can let it all go though we have done so much now to suppress the virus , and unfortunately that message has to be reinforced as much as possible .

I don't mean to come across as rude or insensitive, I don't have kids and I'll admit the restrictions haven't been too hard on me (granted mentally and financially it will take it's toll) I know others have had it much much worse.
But it's been 4 months of lax restrictions and I always think if we had a natural disaster or a war, based on this pandemic so far, we wouldn't survive as a country. This country has had it much much worse in living memory and reading boards it's complaints about getting a hair cut, going on holidays or going to the pub. It's almost like it's nothing serious.

Goldengirl

cnocbui wrote: »

How could a government tolerate patients on trolleys at Limerick regional for over a decade, without expanding capacity or building anew? Identify the need for a childrens hospital in the mid 90's and then take a quarter of a century to do something about it and then stuff it up, not to mention the utterly bizarre and thoroughly inappropriate involvement of religious orders.

Patients on trolleys, not just in Limerick but all over Ireland, cnocbuí , and not just tolerated but made worse by every government for the last 20years.

caveat emptor

fritzelly wrote: »

Oh I agree with you - anyone can come here but we're told stay in Ireland - BS of the highest order



And you just went to an whole other level with that

You said don't stalk people on instagram.
I'm stalking a hashtag to raise a valid point.
Don't be a d!ck.
I didn't accuse you of anything expect maybe not giving a crap.
If you do give a crap then I apologise but maybe don't accuse someone of stalking.

fritzelly

Goldengirl wrote: »

Patients on trolleys, not just in Limerick but all over Ireland, cnocbuí , and not just tolerated but made worse by every government for the last 20years.

Made worse by the government or a corrupt health system?
Maybe I have rose tinted glasses on but don't remember the local health authorities ever being that bad
Good idea at inception but has become a bloated pencil pusher organisation

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

You said don't stalk people on instagram.
I'm stalking a hashtag to raise a valid point.
Don't be a d!ck.
I didn't accuse you of anything expect maybe not giving a crap.
If you do give a crap then I apologise but maybe don't accuse someone of stalking.

And yet, as pointed out, you didn't even bother to check what you were posting - sensationalist junk like many of the twitter posts you post

caveat emptor wrote: »

Don't be a d!ck.

So less of the insults

cnocbui

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's plenty to argue and not a single country has done right. Every country are below another in response. But are you seriously suggesting the government should drag people from their homes and imprison them for testing positive? Good luck getting people to submit to a test if that's the case.
Contact tracing would be worthless then.

Tuberculosis?

“Within these walls I am secure from joy,—yes,” she reflected. “But from pain also.” The tuberculosis sanatoriums, as she described them, allowed her to shield the people she loved from her disease, and to manage her symptoms when they became most severe.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/tuberculosis-sanatoriums-were-quarantine-experiment/608335/

Fever hospitals is what the Chinese did in Wuhan on discovering that the majority of infections occurred within family groups.

Probably no other measure is as effective in reducing infection spread and case numbers as identifying infected people and isolating them from non infected people.

cnocbui

fritzelly wrote: »

Made worse by the government or a corrupt health system?
Maybe I have rose tinted glasses on but don't remember the local health authorities ever being that bad
Good idea at inception but has become a bloated pencil pusher organisation

You don't remember?

As a little experiment, pop theses three words into Google and see what comes out the other end: trolleys limerick regional

Goldengirl

Wolf359f wrote: »

I don't mean to come across as rude or insensitive, I don't have kids and I'll admit the restrictions haven't been too hard on me (granted mentally and financially it will take it's toll) I know others have had it much much worse.
But it's been 4 months of lax restrictions and I always think if we had a natural disaster or a war, based on this pandemic so far, we wouldn't survive as a country. This country has had it much much worse in living memory and reading boards it's complaints about getting a hair cut, going on holidays or going to the pub. It's almost like it's nothing serious.

I am totally with you on that, and if you look back on my posts you will see how much
But it is a lot harder for that age group as everything revolves around friends and social life , school , college , new experiences , making new friends and relationships .
Don't get me wrong ,I don't brook any **** about haircuts and holidays and pubs , those are short term impositions imo , and we will all get over the loss of them for a few months or even this year but it's the emotional aspects that people don't talk about that bubble up every so often .
They were kids through our worst times or weren't born , so this is the worst thing to ever happen to them .
Some of us have gone through enough to think " this too will pass" , but we have to give credit to so many young people who have taken all of this on the chin with a hefty dose of responsibility , and still are getting sxxx for what a few gobsxxxes get up to.

fritzelly

cnocbui wrote: »

You don't remember?

As a little experiment, pop theses three words into Google and see what comes out the other end: trolleys limerick regional

Everything on Google is recent...

caveat emptor

fritzelly wrote: »

And yet, as pointed out, you didn't even bother to check what you were posting - sensationalist junk like many of the twitter posts you post



So less of the insults

I made a mistake on one post. Can can keep posting ones that are accurate but you might accuse me stalking "people" as opposed to a hashtag. Care to comment on the other? By the way these are people who are stupid enough to post to instagram that they are breaking their pinky promise swear form.

To you it might be sensationalist junk. It could seed an outbreak.

Have you had the disease yourself?
Do you work in a related industry?

Trying to figure out why you are condoning this carry on.
I'm pissed off at the situation. With that I'm done.

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's plenty to argue and not a single country has done right. Every country are below another in response. But are you seriously suggesting the government should drag people from their homes and imprison them for testing positive? Good luck getting people to submit to a test if that's the case.
Contact tracing would be worthless then.

How many people actually live on their own.. If I tested positive, I'd be more than happy to spend two weeks in a hotel set up for quarantine instead of being forced to be around people I care about.

I live in a country that did this but with a mixture of hotels and military camps. It's extremely effective and all for what, two weeks of a 70+ year life.

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

I made a mistake on one post. Can can keep posting ones that are accurate but you might accuse me stalking "people" as opposed to a hashtag. Care to comment on the other? By the way these are people who are stupid enough to post to instagram that they are breaking their pinky promise swear form.

To you it might be sensationalist junk. It could seed an outbreak.

Have you had the disease yourself?
Do you work in a related industry?

Trying to figure out why you are condoning this carry on.
I'm pissed off at the situation. With that I'm done.

And there is the crux of the problem - when you cite one example proven to be false it makes the rest of your argument worthless

I am with you on the whole issue but there is enough fake news out there even by "reputable" news organisations to make seperating the wheat from the chaff harder to do

Wolf359f

cnocbui wrote: »

Tuberculosis?

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/tuberculosis-sanatoriums-were-quarantine-experiment/608335/

Fever hospitals is what the Chinese did in Wuhan on discovering that the majority of infections occurred within family groups.

Probably no other measure is as effective in reducing infection spread and case numbers as identifying infected people and isolating them from non infected people.

City West..... Although not enough people availed of it.
So far the government has given guidelines to the public, it's almost basic knowledge, if you test positive, don't go outside and meet people, anyone in your house also has to self isolate.
My point still stands, do you want mandatory quarantine of positive cases?

caveat emptor

Goldengirl wrote: »

While I feel your anger about the rampant travelling yanks , why against healthcare workers?

Sorry what I'm saying the whole clapping for them while nice is an empty gesture while we allow everyone who can afford a ticket in and potentially spread it.

I 100% support them. I just feel sorry for them if there were to be another wave.
And this rampant round the island crap could easily cause it. Sorry if wasn't clear.

caveat emptor

fritzelly wrote: »

And there is the crux of the problem - when you cite one example proven to be false it makes the rest of your argument worthless

I am with you on the whole issue but there is enough fake news out there even by "reputable" news organisations to make seperating the wheat from the chaff harder to do

But you've fact checked the second post and can see Florida -> Northern Ireland -> southern island. no quarantine.

I feel you may have missed that.

Goldengirl

fritzelly wrote: »

Made worse by the government or a corrupt health system?
Maybe I have rose tinted glasses on but don't remember the local health authorities ever being that bad
Good idea at inception but has become a bloated pencil pusher organisation

HSE ..set up by Micheál Martin when Minister for Health .

cnocbui

fritzelly wrote: »

Everything on Google is recent...

I don't generally use Google, but it's easier to type than duckduckgo. Same search terms produces at least one hit from 2005: https://www.inmo.ie/6153

I'd look further but my eyes are blurring over and it's time for bed. Night.

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

But you've fact checked the second post and can see Florida -> Northern Ireland -> southern island. no quarantine.

I feel you may have missed that.

But...if one is wrong why bother checking the rest? See the point?

Wolf359f

Deleted User wrote: »

How many people actually live on their own.. If I tested positive, I'd be more than happy to spend two weeks in a hotel set up for quarantine instead of being forced to be around people I care about.

I live in a country that did this but with a mixture of hotels and military camps. It's extremely effective and all for what, two weeks of a 70+ year life.

We had City West setup for this exact reason.
But for the most part is was for people with vulnerable people living with them.
The message is quite clear, stay isolated and any in the same household do the same after a positive test

fritzelly

Goldengirl wrote: »

HSE ..set up by Micheál Martin when Minister for Health .

Says it all really

Goldengirl

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry what I'm saying the whole clapping for them while nice is an empty gesture while we allow everyone who can afford a ticket in and potentially spread it.

I 100% support them. I just feel sorry for them if there were to be another wave.
And this rampant round the island crap could easily cause it. Sorry if wasn't clear.

Yes I deleted it because I got that in the later post .
Thank you for explaining ,and for your support.

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes I deleted it because I got that in the later post .
Thank you for explaining ,and for your support.

And a recent post on the nurses' site ....

How about giving Politicians A Big Clap instead of a pay rise...sure they 'd be delighted !

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

We had City West setup for this exact reason.
But for the most part is was for people with vulnerable people living with them.
The message is quite clear, stay isolated and any in the same household do the same after a positive test

With no real policing or checks by the sounds of it on here. I don't think it's good enough that government policy is that if one person in a household gets it, everyone in the household is a write off. I've been advocating mandatory quarantine for arrivals and for confirmed cases since February.

MOR316

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that people jetting off have family not living in Ireland?
Have you an suggestion for when they can see their families?

You should probably have read where I said I have no right to judge and that not everyone is in the same boat. That would probably answer your post

But yeah, just read what you want into what is typed. Most of what the world's population does that anyways

kingshankly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I have two sons in their 20's , people trying to get this age group to put their lives on hold need to cop on. They followed the restrictions in the early months but the shambles being overseen by the government has p*ssed them off and honestly I don't blame them.

Aww god love the poor wee things 🙈

silverharp

underdiscussed aspect in all this

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1281869616235634690

Renjit

kingshankly wrote: »

Aww god love the poor wee things 🙈

I am pissed off too :pac:

smurfjed

Their phones won't be able to use the contact tracing app either as they're not compatible with phones from other countries, so even if they get sick while they're here, anyone who comes into close contact with them will not be informed by the app.

their phones will work perfectly in Ireland, and as long as the APP is in a global store, they can download and use it.

bb1234567

silverharp wrote: »

underdiscussed aspect in all this

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1281869616235634690

Is there any way of testing this T cell immunity theory or what?

ACitizenErased

silverharp wrote: »

underdiscussed aspect in all this

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1281869616235634690

Yet the governments push on with antibody tests. It is impossible to measure full seroprevalence without also testing t-cells.

ACitizenErased

Not sure if anyone posted this but the US reported a record 71128 cases yesterday.

The USA, Brazil and India accounted for over 60% of yesterday’s total cases.

mandrake04

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yet the governments push on with antibody tests. It is impossible to measure full seroprevalence without also testing t-cells.

Measuring T-Cells is not that easy.

bb1234567

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yet the governments push on with antibody tests. It is impossible to measure full seroprevalence without also testing t-cells.

I do wonder though if it's just wishful thinking? LIke I guess the reason for this belief is because of the high infectiousness and the surprinsingly low level of antibodies among the population given that. But that's just the general population, in particular areas of hotspots such as Bergmao and NYC antibody levels are at herd immunity levels.

If this theory was to stand up why would we be seeing this trend in any areas? Wouldn't everywhere appear to have falsely low levels of immunity presence then, with low levels of antibodies across the board in all instances?

caveat emptor

France new cases accelerated. 7 day average now approaching 700 was 500 two weeks ago.


Spain has 35 times more cases than Ireland per capita despite only having 9 times the population.

ACitizenErased

mandrake04 wrote: »

Measuring T-Cells is not that easy.

Still means they shouldn’t be doing seroprevalence tests because they’re not accurate.

caveat emptor

Studies being performed into longer term symptoms. If found that large proportion have long term heath issues might make zero tolerance approach more favourable in long run.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=071020#.Xwhp49ca-rg.twitter

From April 21 to May 29, 2020, 179 patients were potentially eligible for the follow-up post–acute care assessment; 14 individuals (8%) refused to participate and 22 had a positive test result. Thus, 143 patients were included. The mean age was 56.5 (SD, 14.6) years (range, 19-84 years), and 53 (37%) were women. During hospitalization, 72.7% of participants had evidence of interstitial pneumonia. The mean length of hospital stay was 13.5 (SD, 9.7) days; 21 patients (15%) received noninvasive ventilation and 7 patients (5%) received invasive ventilation. The characteristics of the study population are summarized in the Table.

Patients were assessed a mean of 60.3 (SD, 13.6) days after onset of the first COVID-19 symptom; at the time of the evaluation, only 18 (12.6%) were completely free of any COVID-19–related symptom, while 32% had 1 or 2 symptoms and 55% had 3 or more. None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness. Worsened quality of life was observed among 44.1% of patients. The Figure shows that a high proportion of individuals still reported fatigue (53.1%), dyspnea (43.4%), joint pain, (27.3%) and chest pain (21.7%).

stephenjmcd

caveat emptor wrote: »

France new cases accelerated. 7 day average now approaching 700 was 500 two weeks ago.


Spain has 35 times more cases than Ireland per capita despite only having 9 times the population.

France is reporting large numbers of cases from their overseas territories, in particular seems to be issues in their African territories.

Spain is now reporting clusters in areas locked down again while also reporting anti body tests as part of the daily figures so they're not exactly active cases.

Not disputing the increase of cases, it was always expected when things started to reopen but worth looking into the figures to see the breakdown

cnocbui

caveat emptor wrote: »

Studies being performed into longer term symptoms. If found that large proportion have long term heath issues might make zero tolerance approach more favourable in long run.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=071020#.Xwhp49ca-rg.twitter

A minority of a small percentage - those admitted to hospital - is an even smaller percentage. I wonder what the mean age of the 44.1% was?

There is more than enough over the top reaction to this crisis already, without advocating more.

Drumpot

caveat emptor wrote: »

Studies being performed into longer term symptoms. If found that large proportion have long term heath issues might make zero tolerance approach more favourable in long run.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=content-shareicons&utm_content=article_engagement&utm_medium=social&utm_term=071020#.Xwhp49ca-rg.twitter

I was just reading about this and Fauci basically saying they just don’t know yet how it effects children in terms of spreading Potential. Says on CNN that they are seeing how 2000 families with infected children are working out. Really feels like this is one of those things that’s light on science evidence but is being thrown around for societal convenience (we really do need children in school).

I’ve not seen clear evidence yet that explains why “children don’t spread disease”. Just vague statements that they don’t think they do. But if children don’t usually get bad doses or have symptoms it stands to reason they won’t be tested. Does anybody know of any credible tests done that shows and explains why this line of thinking on children is being taken by default? (That they don’t really spread).

Also, for anybody who has watched medical videos on the virus, there is still so much they don’t fully understand. If you get sick now, you have a better chance of survival now then you did 6 months ago. But the same can hopefully be said in another 6 months. That’s why it’s imperative to mitigate the chances of a second surge.

Contact tracing App and mandatory masks is an excellent start. Have to give our government thumbs up on that, but we must do more to put infrastructure in place. The more we do now, pre - emptive strategies, the better we can handle this in the long term. Monitoring visitors in and out is an obvious one. The cynic in new thinks the government may wait until end of summer to properly regulate this to help tourism while the numbers are low.

I heard Aldi or Lidl are trialing shop deliveries (can’t remember where I heard that), this is a positive. I’d hope most companies who can, will maintain workers working from home until next year at least. The contact tracing APP will hopefully help us see the true areas where the virus spread the most. Pubs in particular may be cleared or shown to be bad places for spread. Either way, this information can hopefully at least be used to get people and pub owners to be more responsible.

I think it’s all about adapting ourselves to the virus in a manner that we can still lead somewhat normal lives. I’m confident we can do it, but we need to use the summer wisely. I’m working on a new service to basically have zoom meetings. My business has been 100% face to face meetings up until COVId so I’m not finding it easy but I’ve accepted this is my best chance of maintaining a company over the coming months/years. Instead of fighting it, I would love to see our country showing innovation and ways of working around it, instead of trying to force things back to normal.

ACitizenErased

Bit of news there from Kerry.
https://twitter.com/jerosullivanrk/status/1281879407070715904?s=21

The group rented in Killarney, did not visit pubs or resturants and socalised by way of house parties. All of the group have left Kerry. They travelled by car except one public transport trip in another county which is being followed up.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Not sure if anyone posted this but the US reported a record 71128 cases yesterday.

The USA, Brazil and India accounted for over 60% of yesterday’s total cases.

Some times I think (and I guess it is a widely held view) that it doesn't really matter who is in power. But, wow in interesting times I guess it does.

caveat emptor

Drumpot wrote: »

they just don’t know yet how it effects children in terms of spreading Potential

Yeah I don’t get the logic that kids magically don’t spread this disease.

Largest outbreak in Australia so far is in a school. 113 cases so far related to it. I’d be 95% confident that they can spread it.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/al-taqwa-college-coronavirus-covid19-cluster-melbourne-truganina/12437584

Renjit

timsey tiger wrote: »

Some times I think (and I guess it is a widely held view) that it doesn't really matter who is in power. But, wow in interesting times I guess it does.

People (majority) get the government they deserve.

Random sample

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah I don’t get the logic that kids magically don’t spread this disease.

Largest outbreak in Australia so far is in a school. 113 cases so far related to it. I’d be 95% confident that they can spread it.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-09/al-taqwa-college-coronavirus-covid19-cluster-melbourne-truganina/12437584

Looking at it from an Irish perspective, our kids have been home since the start of this, so the only people they could catch it from are their parents (in most cases). They have no one to pass it on to then. We won’t know how much it spreads through children until they are back at school. And even then, if a lot of them are asymptotic it could take a while to see it spread.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Bit of news there from Kerry.
https://twitter.com/jerosullivanrk/status/1281879407070715904?s=21

Just after reading that, one question came to mind for me, what sort of holiday makers rent a house essentially just for a house party, no restaurants, bars visited etc.

To me that stinks of a staycation, rent a house down the country and judging by the age group potentially a family.

Now I could be wrong but sounds very much like a staycation with little interaction in Killarney

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Just after reading that, one question came to mind for me, what sort of holiday makers rent a house essentially just for a house party, no restaurants, bars visited etc.

To me that stinks of a staycation, rent a house down the country and judging by the age group potentially a family.

Now I could be wrong but sounds very much like a staycation with little interaction in Killarney

Yeah they must have known people down there or had family it makes no sense otherwise. Should be easy enough to trace besides maybe the public transport bit.

Neamhshuntasach

All these reports of long term effects. It hasn't been around long term. So they've no idea if there will be people in 20 or 30 years with problems due to catching Covid 19 on 2020. Any damage seen now in certain organs has no guarantee of being permanent and could heal naturally. It's important to highlight potential risks considering its a novel virus. But a lot of these articles come off as one trying to out do the other in how bad this is.