Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

is_that_so

quartz1 wrote: »

69,000 New Cases announced in one day in the US and we are allowing them fly in here .....the mind boggles . Not even an attempt to legislate for mandatory quarantine for them ..Texan guy interviewed yesterday arriving into Dublin on Newstalk offering his view that Covid is overblown .......

Saw somewhere that it was 16 people on the flight. That all sounds a bit like the "huge" numbers invading our ports back in March.

ShineOn7

JJayoo wrote: »

A few months ago 200,000 deaths was predicted as the worst possible outcome for deaths in America from this Virus.... I think they are gonna hit this by the end of September the way the cases are accelerating.

In the early days of this the CDC estimated 500,000 to 1.5 Million Americans would pass away due to Covid

stephenjmcd

Eod100 wrote: »

Presume that's the far-right one? Is there a counter-protest? Haven't heard of any. These guys are like the Qanon stuff in US, spreading vile and unhinged stuff about politicians.

Yeah handful of counter appearently getting a bit rough so more Gardai been sent in.

But what really annoys me is despite all the warnings to businesses and people they're still allowing protests, we were basically told behave this weekend or no phase 4. Makes the blood boil

bb1234567

ShineOn7 wrote: »

In the early days of this the CDC estimated 500,000 to 1.5 Million Americans would pass away due to Covid

But how unlikely is 500k deaths in say 18 months time as they pandemic continues? Surely the CDC estimate figure is a prediction for the very end of the pandemic, not after just a few months, widespread infection in the US only began 4 months ago.

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

Saw somewhere that it was 16 people on the flight. That all sounds a bit like the "huge" numbers invading our ports back in March.

That's only 1 flight though. I just think the risk is there if it's from area with very high concentration of virus to low. It might be blown out of proportion but with current guidelines there's literally nothing stopping people travelling for non-essential reasons and not self-isolating. No piece of paper of phone calls (even if everyone is called) will change that so can understand people's concerns.

I know government said they couldn't do mandatory quarantine because they wouldn't have enough hotel rooms but if it's for high risk areas, it might discourage people meaning less would travel.

JJayoo

is_that_so wrote: »

Saw somewhere that it was 16 people on the flight. That all sounds a bit like the "huge" numbers invading our ports back in March.

"Four flights arrived in Dublin Airport from the US this morning - from New York, Chicago, Newark and Dallas"

"The flights from Chicago and New York had about 70-80 people on board - they had been sold out, but many passengers did not show up at the airport in the US.

The Newark flight had around 50 people on board, while the flight from Dallas had 16 passengers."

So 226 people landing in from the states in the morning, would be Interesting to know the full amount for the day.

But ya a bit more than 16



https://www.newstalk.com/news/came-ireland-essentially-avoid-florida-passengers-arriving-ireland-us-1044223

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

That's only 1 flight though. I just think the risk is there if it's from area with very high concentration of virus to low. It might be blown out of proportion but with current guidelines there's literally nothing stopping people travelling for non-essential reasons and not self-isolating. No piece of paper of phone calls (even if everyone is called) will change that so can understand people's concerns.

I know government said they couldn't do mandatory quarantine because they wouldn't have enough hotel rooms but if it's for high risk areas, it might discourage people meaning less would travel.

As was the flight of Bulgarian fruit pickers but the country lost the plot over that. Ultimately, it's down to personal responsibility and accepting that people will exercise that.

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah handful of counter appearently getting a bit rough so more Gardai been sent in.

But what really annoys me is despite all the warnings to businesses and people they're still allowing protests, we were basically told behave this weekend or no phase 4. Makes the blood boil

I think it's a tricky one for the Gardai. Laws don't allow groups like that and can penalise organisers but very hard to find and prove who organises these things.

Also not sure how they could break them all up or arrest them all with the size of the crowds. Probably don't want to go in hard with riot police because would look bad and put Gardai at more risk of violence and virus so it's a tricky one tbh

Beechwoodspark

Since Around March I’ve been calling for them to close off the borders for a list of countries such as America and Brazil and yes the UK and any other countries with a higher rate of infection. I emailed the taoiseachs office and got a simple note of acknowledgment but nothing further

is_that_so

JJayoo wrote: »

"Four flights arrived in Dublin Airport from the US this morning - from New York, Chicago, Newark and Dallas"

"The flights from Chicago and New York had about 70-80 people on board - they had been sold out, but many passengers did not show up at the airport in the US.

The Newark flight had around 50 people on board, while the flight from Dallas had 16 passengers."

So 226 people landing in from the states in the morning, would be Interesting to know the full amount for the day.

But ya a bit more than 16



https://www.newstalk.com/news/came-ireland-essentially-avoid-florida-passengers-arriving-ireland-us-1044223

No information there on the breakdown of nationalities. Our own are entitled to come back anyway.

Renjit

is_that_so wrote: »

No information there on the breakdown of nationalities. Our own are entitled to come back anyway.

.

One couple flew in to Ireland to see family and "essentially avoid Florida", saying they wanted to get out of the state as the COVID-19 situation there is 'pretty bad'.

One of those passengers explained: "We got out while we could, and we went somewhere where the COVID was more contained.

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

As was the flight of Bulgarian fruit pickers but the country lost the plot over that. Ultimately, it's down to personal responsibility and accepting that people will exercise that.

The poster above me as the figures so it's clear it's not just 16 people that have come in during 1 morning, nevermind a day.

If people are doing everything in their responsibility to prevent getting the virus and holiday abroad as encouraged, think it's fair that at a minimum they shouldn't have to worry about people coming from high risk areas who haven't self isolated. Obviously it's not something in anyone's control but I can understand it as a legitimate concern.

US doesn't allow in non residents or non citizens. Not sure why we don't have a reciprocal arrangement until US gets this under control.

GerryFog

JJayoo wrote: »

"Four flights arrived in Dublin Airport from the US this morning - from New York, Chicago, Newark and Dallas"

"The flights from Chicago and New York had about 70-80 people on board - they had been sold out, but many passengers did not show up at the airport in the US.

The Newark flight had around 50 people on board, while the flight from Dallas had 16 passengers."

So 226 people landing in from the states in the morning, would be Interesting to know the full amount for the day.

But ya a bit more than 16



https://www.newstalk.com/news/came-ireland-essentially-avoid-florida-passengers-arriving-ireland-us-1044223

The vast majority of Americans arriving here are older and white and therefore disproportionately Trump supporting.

That's important because it means they are far more likely to be the type to not wear masks and publicly gather in a country that has the highest infection rates in the world.

Americans should not be allowed entry. Its completely insane. To be honest if I see an American tourist I am going to tell them exactly how I feel....That they are selfish ***** putting the health of my country people at risk so they can vacation

Ficheall

is_that_so wrote: »

Ultimately, it's down to personal responsibility and accepting that people will exercise that.

Therein lies the rub.

is_that_so

Renjit wrote: »

Suddenly Ireland is a more lucrative tourist destination. Wonder why?

It's their choice but they need to respect what we are expecting of them. Being American doesn't automatically make you infectious any more than the Italians meandering around Dublin in March were.

is_that_so

Ficheall wrote: »

Therein lies the rub.

More to do with what your go-to judgement mindset is!

ACitizenErased

If Dublin isn’t careful they’ll lock it down. The big cluster Dr. Glynn spoke about Thursday was in Dublin, then the drinking last week and protests today. Have to be very careful.

Eod100

I think a lot it is airlines flying flights because it's cheaper to run quieter flights, pay staff and pay fuel than refund all tickets booked.

If someone has paid a few grand on flights and accommodation here and not getting refunds for the flights, they some will still come.

Airlines should have allowed postponing of flights to next year if they hadn't already if they weren't refunding. Should have been more pressure from governments. Presumably if Ireland could and did close borders then airlines would have to refund anyway so surely there was some leverage there?

YellowBucket

Inbound travel is fine, as long as it's safe. You can't really turn facts into politics. The simple reality is that there's a significant issue in the US, Brazil and a few other places at the moment. The US situation is being made worse by the way it's being handled, or rather not handled, there at present at a federal level and by quite a number of states too.

If we were looking at this in terms of domestic policy, had we similar outbreaks we'd be isolating ourselves to avoid spread.

If there are small numbers of people coming in (be they Irish or American or any other nationality) on US flights, we should be including an isolate (for a couple of days) pending a test result system. Or, requiring pre-departure tests done in commercial labs.

The ideal scenario would be pre-departure screening.

It would add maybe €100 - €200 to the price of a flight, but that's fairly insignificant given the risks and those costs could probably be reduced if you get improvements in commercial testing services.

The situation in most European and the Asian countries we tend to have most contact with is far more pragmatic and sane about COVID-19 and most of them have it at least as under control as we have. So, the risks are likely not much different to moving between Kerry and Dublin.

The US, or certainly certain parts of it, are unfortunately a mess right now and a bit of sensible precaution would be advisable.
The same applies to Brazil and to a range of other countries that may have difficulties controlling spread.

The US is really bizarre as the spread is happening due to political notions and reality denial, not lack of resources. It should be well able to contain this but hasn't got the leadership or societal cohesion to do it anymore.

In my view, unless and until the US gets this under control, we have to take sensible precautions and the most logical one would probably be testing.

Ideally it should be a couple of swabs at a US testing clinic before departure, stay at home until you're going to the airport and your proof of having no COVID-19 would be logged and you'd be clear to go.

I'm pretty sure most people coming into Ireland on vacation or people returning to visit families and so on aren't likely to want to inadvertently carry in COVID-19 either. It's not like it's some kind of terrible burden to ask them to get tested. In general we don't have the kind of mass-market, low budget sun-seeking tourism that say Spain or Florida have, so it's unlikely to be an extremely difficult thing to achieve.

For business travellers it probably makes a hell of a lot of sense to be getting tested anyway to avoid picking it up or spreading it around. It would open up business travel a lot more widely if we could get to a stage where testing was convenient and frequent.

It looks to me like we are going to be dealing with the reality of this situation for at least another 12 months and possibly longer, so we need (globally) to start coming up with strategies to contain it properly. Being offended by the notion someone might be tested or quarantined isn't really going to achieve anything. The reality of it is we need to manage this properly and with least impact on day-to-day life.

is_that_so

GerryFog wrote: »

The vast majority of Americans arriving here are older and white and therefore disproportionately Trump supporting.

That's important because it means they are far more likely to be the type to not wear masks and publicly gather in a country that has the highest infection rates in the world.

Americans should not be allowed entry. Its completely insane. To be honest if I see an American tourist I am going to tell them exactly how I feel....That they are selfish ***** putting the health of my country people at risk so they can vacation

Bit of a mad post this but splendid idea. Let's keep the unclean out and shout at any that get through.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

If Dublin isn’t careful they’ll lock it down. The big cluster Dr. Glynn spoke about Thursday was in Dublin, then the drinking last week and protests today. Have to be very careful.

Sorry but the drinking issue is everywhere. Plenty of pictures online of other towns and cities but none making the front page of the papers. Its not just a Dublin issue.

2 of the above issues you've listed are fairly straight forward public order issues for the Gardai but they seem to not be doing much. Anyway Dame Lane is I'm told at the moment fairly quiet. Looks like the tactic of give everyone a scare by telling them we won't move to phase 4 is working.

The cluster of 9 in Dublin I've a funny feeling is the Kerry cluster.

Eod100

is_that_so wrote: »

It's their choice but they need to respect what we are expecting of them. Being American doesn't automatically make you infectious any more than the Italians meandering around Dublin in March were.

It's not just America though or Americans, it's anyone travelling from high-risk countries regardless of nationality. If it's non-essential travel then they shouldn't come nor if they can't self-isolate for 14 days.

They are the clear travel and health guidelines. They're more than welcome once they have virus in control.

US isn't letting non residents or non citizens in. Wouldn't seem unfair to have same here.

ShineOn7

is_that_so wrote: »

Saw somewhere that it was 16 people on the flight. That all sounds a bit like the "huge" numbers invading our ports back in March.

It was 16 Americans?

What does it matter if it was 6, 16 or 56 of them?

In my experience they're not a very bright nation overall and the guy on Pat Kenny yesterday only compounds this. Not having decent intelligence and Covid is not a good combination

Their choices this year to holiday are so, so limited and we're one of only 28 countries of the over 200 affected by Covid still letting them in. America has always had links with Ireland so of course many of them will come here

Our new "Government" (being very quiet aren't they?) aren't taking action because Michael doesn't want to lose his invite to a White House lunch in the future. It's fairly pathetic to be honest and yet here we are taking it

I also suspect they know that because Americans will be here in their droves they will boost our tourism this year. An industry that's on it's knees, but it's not worth propping up with people from a country who have ballsed this up like very few others have

There's 5 Million of us. We shouldn't be taking this lying down after months of the worst mental stress and sacrifice this country has seen in decades

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sorry but the drinking issue is everywhere. Plenty of pictures online of other towns and cities but none making the front page of the papers. Its not just a Dublin issue.

2 of the above issues you've listed are fairly straight forward public order issues for the Gardai but they seem to not be doing much. Anyway Dame Lane is I'm told at the moment fairly quiet. Looks like the tactic of give everyone a scare by telling them we won't move to phase 4 is working.

The cluster of 9 in Dublin I've a funny feeling is the Kerry cluster.

I don’t agree with everywhere. I have seen zero incidents in Cork City or even from friends in Killarney in the past two weeks.

blade1

Passed through a seaside village on my bike and could see a queue inside and out for 99s etc.
They were crammed into the place.
Plenty of camper vans and loads of tourists.
The signs aren't looking good.

US2

ShineOn7 wrote: »

In the early days of this the CDC estimated 500,000 to 1.5 Million Americans would pass away due to Covid

Pass away with covid not due to.

LawBoy2018

I was in Galway yesterday doing a little shopping. I'd say around 10% of people were wearing masks, if even. A woman ahead of me in the check out line in Tommy Hilfiger was coughing and spluttering and then she goes, "I think I've come down with something" while pissing herself laughing. The young clerk humoured her but was visibly uncomfortable.

There were also loads of Americans around? They're predominantly old white guys but wtf. We can't vilify young people for enjoying themselves here in Ireland while we're simultaneously importing the virus from all over the world. The government can't have their cake and eat it. Personally, if there's a second wave and the restrictions are introduced again, I will be far less likely to comply. It sounds terrible but it's human nature. What an absolute slap in the face to everyone who complied with the regulations for the last 5 months and essentially eradicated the virus from the island...

Eod100

Looks like Irish Embassy in US putting word out. Not sure why they mention State Dept cos it's Ireland's guidelines too but maybe people in US more likely to be familiar with that advice.

https://twitter.com/IrelandEmbUSA/status/1281967668338274307

is_that_so

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It was 16 Americans?

What does it matter if it was 6, 16 or 56 of them?

In my experience they're not a very bright nation overall and the guy on Pat Kenny yesterday only compounds this. Not having decent intelligence and Covid is not a good combination

Their choices this year to holiday are so, so limited and we're one of only 28 countries of the over 200 affected by Covid still letting them in. America has always had links with Ireland so of course many of them will come here

Our new "Government" (being very quiet aren't they?) aren't talking action because Michael doesn't want to lose his invite to a White House lunch in the future. It's fairly pathetic to be honest and yet here we are taking it

I also suspect they know that because Americans will be here in their droves that they boost our tourism this year. An industry that's on it's knees, but it's not worth propping up with people from a country who have ballsed this up like very few others have

There's 5 Million of us. We shouldn't be taking this lying down after months of the worst mental stress and sacrifice this country has seen in decades

One of things we have done here, even where people may have had issues with it, is a measured approach. So relax, July 20 is upon us and there will be a list. Whether we move to phase 4 still very much depends on how we are behaving, not small numbers of tourists.

Ficheall

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sorry but the drinking issue is everywhere. Plenty of pictures online of other towns and cities but none making the front page of the papers. Its not just a Dublin issue.

2 of the above issues you've listed are fairly straight forward public order issues for the Gardai but they seem to not be doing much. Anyway Dame Lane is I'm told at the moment fairly quiet. Looks like the tactic of give everyone a scare by telling them we won't move to phase 4 is working.

The cluster of 9 in Dublin I've a funny feeling is the Kerry cluster.

Haven't been in town at night, but Galway was wedged today (outside, took a spin through in the car) and only a handful of masks to be seen. Hopefully people all have masks in their pockets for when they head indoors, but I wouldn't be optimistic about that..

ACitizenErased

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I was in Galway yesterday doing a little shopping. I'd say around 10% of people were wearing masks, if even. A woman ahead of me in the check out line in Tommy Hilfiger was coughing and spluttering and then she goes, "I think I've come down with something" while pissing herself laughing. The young clerk humoured her but was visibly uncomfortable.

There were also loads of Americans around? They're predominantly old white guys but wtf. We can't vilify young people for enjoying themselves here in Ireland while we're simultaneously importing the virus from all over the world. The government can't have their cake and eat it. Personally, if there's a second wave and the restrictions are introduced again, I will be far less likely to comply. It sounds terrible but it's human nature. What an absolute slap in the face to everyone who complied with the regulations for the last 5 months and essentially eradicated the virus from the island...

NPHET essentially declared masks null and void when they said they were more of a danger than a positive at the beginning. There was no going back in the public’s mind after that was said

Beechwoodspark

Cousin has texted me that a Group of Americans just got off a bus with dublin plates in Kildare Village shopping outlet about 20 mins ago.

Mainly 50+. No masks.

Ah Lads this is absolutely ridiculous carry on.

The infection rate WILL rise if we keep allowing Americans in to wander around the country

Ficheall

ACitizenErased wrote: »

NPHET essentially declared masks null and void when they said they were more of a danger than a positive at the beginning. There was no going back in the public’s mind after that was said

It certainly won't have helped, but I don't think that ****e advice is entirely to blame. A lot of people just don't give a toss.

ACitizenErased

Ficheall wrote: »

It certainly won't have helped, but I don't think that ****e advice is entirely to blame. A lot of people just don't give a toss.

Older relatives of mine who refuse to wear masks say they’re more dangerous than not wearing one. There’s only one reason for that mindset.

Eod100

ACitizenErased wrote: »

NPHET essentially declared masks null and void when they said they were more of a danger than a positive at the beginning. There was no going back in the public’s mind after that was said

I think the mandatory on public transport has improved it from what I've seen since the 29th, far more people wear one now. Close to 70% to 80% roughly on transport I've been on.

It will force people to have a face covering so hopefully they consider them for other settings.

Eod100

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Older relatives of mine who refuse to wear masks say they’re more dangerous than not wearing one. There’s only one reason for that mindset.

The most annoying part of the messaging was that it was obvious that it was going to change eventually. Granted there were supply issues but the implications that people could do themselves more harm than not by wearing one was very problematic

Away With The Fairies

ACitizenErased wrote: »

NPHET essentially declared masks null and void when they said they were more of a danger than a positive at the beginning. There was no going back in the public’s mind after that was said

Ah but what about their new found evidence back in May?

LawBoy2018

Micheál Martin is now further patronising young people, proclaiming to the media that "no-one is invincible". If that's the case then stop allowing tourists from the US into Ireland, you space cadet! I despair...

Away With The Fairies

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Micheál Martin is now further patronising young people, proclaiming to the media that "no-one is invincible". If that's the case then stop allowing tourists from the US into Ireland, you space cadet! I despair...

It's really not working with him as taoiseach.

ACitizenErased

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Micheál Martin is now further patronising young people, proclaiming to the media that "no-one is invincible". If that's the case then stop allowing tourists from the US into Ireland, you space cadet! I despair...

I hate FG but I’d give a leg for Varadkar to come back. Martin is unbearable.

ShineOn7

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I hate FG but I’d give a leg for Varadkar to come back. Martin is unbearable.

I openly ridiculed his Meme soundbite speeches on here, but he was at least 3 times the Covid leader that Martin is

auspicious

I've been told the Kerry cases are a result of people travelling to a houseparty there from Dublin, on public transport.

ACitizenErased

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I openly ridiculed his Meme soundbite speeches on here, but he was at least 3 times the Covid leader that Martin is

We (Cork people) didn’t even want him to be the next Cork taoiseach. He’s a langer.

owlbethere

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It was 16 Americans?

What does it matter if it was 6, 16 or 56 of them?

In my experience they're not a very bright nation overall and the guy on Pat Kenny yesterday only compounds this. Not having decent intelligence and Covid is not a good combination

Their choices this year to holiday are so, so limited and we're one of only 28 countries of the over 200 affected by Covid still letting them in. America has always had links with Ireland so of course many of them will come here

Our new "Government" (being very quiet aren't they?) aren't talking action because Michael doesn't want to lose his invite to a White House lunch in the future. It's fairly pathetic to be honest and yet here we are taking it

I also suspect they know that because Americans will be here in their droves that they boost our tourism this year. An industry that's on it's knees, but it's not worth propping up with people from a country who have ballsed this up like very few others have

There's 5 Million of us. We shouldn't be taking this lying down after months of the worst mental stress and sacrifice this country has seen in decades

I completely agree with you. MM was all talk in opposition but he's clearly not fit to take over now. We worked so hard for months to suppress this virus and its absolutely shocking what our government is doing allowing people from badly affected areas in to holiday here putting people and the health and safety of our population at risk. They are recommending non essential travel and we have recommendations for 'staycations' from the media and other places - recommending for us to holiday alongside these American tourists risking more infections along with the people who work and staff tourist attractions and activities.

We have fcuked up our chances of a successful airbridgeswith other European countries who have the virus under control too. Why would other people who might care about their health and the health of their family come here if they think they are going to be holidaying around Americans who are badly hit.

I get it that tourism has been hit hard here in Ireland but why should we put the health and safety of our people at risk for one summer?

stephenjmcd

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Micheál Martin is now further patronising young people, proclaiming to the media that "no-one is invincible". If that's the case then stop allowing tourists from the US into Ireland, you space cadet! I despair...

He did enough shouting and roaring from the opposition benches as to what we should be doing and when he gets into office does absolutely sweet fcuk all.

At least Leo to his credit seemed to gauge the public mood and act on it. Stark difference in the ability to lead

hmmm

Lower cognitive ability leads to lower compliance with social distancing
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/07/09/2008868117

Explains a lot I suppose.

"We found that participants’ social-distancing compliance at this initial stage could be predicted by individual differences in WM (working memory) capacity, partly due to increased awareness of benefits over costs of social distancing among higher WM capacity individuals. "

YellowBucket

Given that we inexplicably refuse to do a thing about the commercial use of Shannon Airport by the US military, despite being a country that regularly, passionately speaks of our neutrality, nothing surprises me.

We can’t say boo to the US & nor can the UK.

iamwhoiam

The absolute irony of MM telling people not to holiday abroad while allowing Americans holiday here . Jesus you couldn’t make it up

ACitizenErased

He’s trying to keep things sweet with the US. He won’t do **** all and I guarantee it.

Eod100

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The fact so many of the same people are involved makes it all the more baffling. The last government weren't perfect but seemed a lot better than what we have at the moment.

The cynic in me wonders if FF are too caught up in internal conflict/the drink driving thing.

I think there definitely could be a part of that. The other thing is how are decisions being made.

Is it through the mixed cabinet with FF Taosieach and FG Tanaiste?

At least Varadkar who I'm no fan of had clear mandate and seemed to be assertive. Get sense that Martin is especially affected by public perception so seems decision on 20th July could be motivated by reaction if pubs are delayed opening or if they're opened and there's a spike.