Covid19 Part XIX-25,802 in ROI (1,753 deaths) 5,859 in NI (556 deaths) (21/07)Read OP

Neamhshuntasach

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah but I guess the main concern about coronavirus is it's so new that long-terms effects won't be known for years.

That was my original point. It's new and everything is guess work. But some of these articles are reading like people will definitely have long term effects from covid.

When I was being treated for malaria, I was told how damaged my organs were. But there was no concern about long term effects because they have had a very long time to know about long term effects. Malaria at one stage could have been like covid in the respect that it was new and damage was observed in organs. But malaria is very treatable and damage can be reversed naturally with time. That could be the case with covid too. More balance is needed. And less scare mongering.

hotmail.com

is_that_so wrote: »

You can set up rules so all of that is minimised but it's not really practical as the mask would be on and off so often.

Then this is mixed message I'm afraid.

And supermarkets have shown to be quite safe and masks are advised there?

Do the government not realise we see all these flaws and hypocrisies.

hmmm

We have a house party in Kerry with tens of people potentially now having Covid, yet the media and society are all jumping on a small number of US arrivals as being the thing which will tip us over the edge. We need to get a sense of perspective, and instead of looking for outsiders to blame start taking some responsibility ourselves. There will be people going to house parties tonight which will represent a much bigger risk to us than a small number of tourists walking around a beauty spot.

Beechwoodspark

Really not getting the preference for varadkar over Martin. Both have been weak and in fairness to Martin he’s there a very short time so judgement would be harsh at this stage.

As for LV, well, when a Taoiseach is obsessed with awkwardly shoehorning movie quotes into speeches (for social media attention) during a time of national crisis with awful stories and thousands effected....well it says it all about the man. Good riddance.

is_that_so

hotmail.com wrote: »

People are already angry. It's undermining government messaging on other matters as well.

We don't care who their president is, we just want the flights banned, at least temporarily.

Media here just want to personalise it all about Trump. We don't care. We just want the flights stopped.

Some people have been angry since day one with a different group to blame every week. Proportionate and measured is what we need to do.

hotmail.com

AdamD wrote: »

Because people go there to eat and drink??

So you can't catch Covid when you're eating and drinking?

stephenjmcd

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you can't catch Covid when you're eating and drinking?

Appearently it knows the difference between a €9 meal or not

Itssoeasy

JJayoo wrote: »

It will be interesting to see the general Irish reaction to the clusterfcuk that will be America in the coming weeks.

America is a cluster**** now never mind in the coming weeks.

ACitizenErased

2 more deaths RIP

23 new cases

stephenjmcd

2 deaths 23 new cases

is_that_so

hotmail.com wrote: »

Then this is mixed message I'm afraid.

And supermarkets have shown to be quite safe and masks are advised there?

Do the government not realise we see all these flaws and hypocrisies.

Not sure what you want here. Eating and drinking with a mask on is not practical and anyone choosing to go there understands the potential risk as do the venues themselves. Do you want them all closed down again?

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

2 deaths 23 new cases

Damn! Not mid-thirties! Steady as she goes.

ACitizenErased

Was expecting more tbh

KrustyUCC

ACitizenErased wrote: »

2 more deaths RIP

23 new cases

Good news

How does that relate to the 41 mentioned earlier?

PixieValentine

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The fact so many of the same people are involved makes it all the more baffling. The last government weren't perfect but seemed a lot better than what we have at the moment.

The cynic in me wonders if FF are too caught up in internal conflict/the drink driving thing.

Still there yeah, but are they really calling the shots with the covid stuff anymore though? Simon C and Paschal are still doing what they were doing, but… I don’t know, two of the key people who were leading the government’s efforts are definitely not doing the same job anymore, even though they’re still in government. I was reading some piece before the last government broke up that made it clear that over the few months they were facing Covid, many of the decisions weren’t really being made by the whole cabinet. It was Leo, Simon H, and a couple of other people who were doing much of the “handling”. The rest of them were of course involved, and given a say, but not to the same degree. I can’t remember the details but I remember the feeling being from a bit of it that some of them weren’t happy at not feeling more involved. If that’s still the way of it, and you consider we’ve swapped out Leo and Simon for MM and Stephen Donnelly, who are only in place two (very messy) weeks and the people who WERE handling it now are not and the new government is still getting settled in between people who weren't in government at all and people who were but now suddenly have completely different jobs… maybe it’s not so surprising. I was reading a piece in the Irish Times the other day about how crazy messy it’s been behind the scenes (it sounds like things have been all OVER the place, it took three days for one person to get an email address) and it made me grateful all over again that we didn’t switch governments, or didn’t have a brand new one just come to power, before now. I don’t think FG got everything right at all, but at least they were well established and knew what they were doing, and weren't still trying to figure out email addresses and hire staff when covid hit!

The new government do need to step it up though. I have sympathy for the people new to this, and to everyone (bar the few FG people in the same jobs) having so much going on behind the scenes trying to get to get to grips with their new roles, but there's no time to waste here. They urgently need to get it together. And they need to figure out the travel thing. FG had the luxury of not having to make that call because really, pretty much nobody was travelling here that didn't have to- that's clearly not the case anymore, and it's not fair for Martin to act like it's not happening. It won't be the only thing that causes a second wave if it happens by any means but it doesn't help matters either, and it certainly doesn't help the general morale here to know there could be plane loads of people (I know there isn't, I know right now the numbers are relatively small, but there could be any number of them) coming from some of the worst-impacted places on earth and that's all fine, nothing in place either stop them coming or to ensure they quarantine once here. People are really unhappy about it. Leo and Simon H, for all their faults, understood how important it was that everyone bought into what we were doing and that there was a clear message, and they hammered it home until they were blue in the face. MM and Stephen D need to step it up now that they're the new "faces of the effort".

Eod100

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you can't catch Covid when you're eating and drinking?

No but presumably they think people drinking alcohol might be less likely to wash or sanatise their hands before and after putting on and taking off their mask which risks spreading infection from hand to face which could be worse than simply not wearing a mask if you don't have it.

Zonda999

hmmm wrote: »

We have a house party in Kerry with tens of people potentially now having Covid, yet the media and society are all jumping on a small number of US arrivals as being the thing which will tip us over the edge. .

I'm not sure there is that much in the media about the americans, bits and pieces admittedly. I think there was/is relatively far more on dissuading Irish people going to places in Europe where the virus is far more under control than the US. That just so happens to suit the government narrative.

hotmail.com

is_that_so wrote: »

Not sure what you want here. Eating and drinking with a mask on is not practical and anyone choosing to go there understand the potential risk as do the venues themselves. Do you want them all closed down again?

No.

But this is what people are saying. They are allowed to drink without masks on, use the toilet etc and then are told to wear masks in shops.

So the apathy towards the restrictions is very high and you can see why.

ACitizenErased

Dublin is +12 for yesterday

is_that_so

Zonda999 wrote: »

I'm not sure there is that much in the media about the americans, bits and pieces admittedly. I think there was/is relatively far more on dissuading Irish people going to places in Europe where the virus is far more under control than the US

Well, if you remember the Bulgarians back in March ....

Plumbthedepths

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you can't catch Covid when you're eating and drinking?

I'm sure you can but a mask designed to contain particles from your breath would make eating and drinking incredibly messy. Once the staff are protected I'm happy to take the risk to have a pint and a steak.

Mortelaro

hmmm wrote: »

We have a house party in Kerry with tens of people potentially now having Covid, yet the media and society are all jumping on a small number of US arrivals as being the thing which will tip us over the edge. We need to get a sense of perspective, and instead of looking for outsiders to blame start taking some responsibility ourselves. There will be people going to house parties tonight which will represent a much bigger risk to us than a small number of tourists walking around a beauty spot.

Quoting this for truth

Eod100

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Dublin is +12 for yesterday

Where can you find figures for increase day to day for counties out of curiosity?

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Dublin is +12 for yesterday

That Kerry cluster without a doubt has to have Dublin origin.

Sounds like a family get together by the way its being described

is_that_so

hotmail.com wrote: »

No.

But this is what people are saying. They are allowed to drink without masks on, use the toilet etc and then are told to wear masks in shops.

So the apathy towards the restrictions is very high and you can see why.

The message for indoors is where you can't social distance you should wear one. In the huge shells of some supermarkets you can and more.

owlbethere

hmmm wrote: »

We have a house party in Kerry with tens of people potentially now having Covid, yet the media and society are all jumping on a small number of US arrivals as being the thing which will tip us over the edge. We need to get a sense of perspective, and instead of looking for outsiders to blame start taking some responsibility ourselves.

That houseparty scenario has to be highlighted and focused on for sure. Is there any way to drum it into people the danger of crowds and indoor gatherings? All it takes is one person amongst many people to infect the lot of them.

Also to date the government and the population has been relying on the good will of others to do the right thing but some people has shown they can't do what's right. That person who turned up at the kerry party despite having a positive test result should be charged with something. I don't know what area of lw it will come in under. There's nothing stopping people from behaving the same in a similar way. Some peoples greed and selfishness will win hands down over doing what's right. We've been told to stay at home if we don't feel well and if we feel we have a cold, to stay at home. Thats not difficult to follow.

ACitizenErased

Analysis of cases as of midnight Thursday 9th July - 25588 cases (+24)

Healthcare Workers +5
Clusters +24
Cases associated with clusters +37

Age Range Affected
0-4 No Change
5-14 +4
15-24 +11
25-34 +1
35-44 +5
45-54 +2
55-64 No Change
65-74 +1
75-84 No Change
85+ No Change

Cases by County
Carlow +1
Dublin +13
Galway +4
Kerry +1
Kildare +3
Sligo +1
Wicklow +2

Mortelaro

hotmail.com wrote: »

So you can't catch Covid when you're eating and drinking?

Of course you can
Pubs with restaurants pulled a fast one
But I can understand the usefulness of seeing the effect of a proportion of pubs being open has, in deciding for the rest

Newtown90

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That Kerry cluster without a doubt has to have Dublin origin.

Sounds like a family get together by the way its being described

Yes they were Dubs...

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/cluster-covid-19-cases-after-22339770.amp

Very busy around killarney this weekend again. Hard to exactly clamp down on people visiting I guess but the lack of social distancing is annoying.

Goldengirl

YellowBucket wrote: »

Inbound travel is fine, as long as it's safe. You can't really turn facts into politics. The simple reality is that there's a significant issue in the US, Brazil and a few other places at the moment. The US situation is being made worse by the way it's being handled, or rather not handled, there at present at a federal level and by quite a number of states too.

If we were looking at this in terms of domestic policy, had we similar outbreaks we'd be isolating ourselves to avoid spread.

If there are small numbers of people coming in (be they Irish or American or any other nationality) on US flights, we should be including an isolate (for a couple of days) pending a test result system. Or, requiring pre-departure tests done in commercial labs.

The ideal scenario would be pre-departure screening.

It would add maybe €100 - €200 to the price of a flight, but that's fairly insignificant given the risks and those costs could probably be reduced if you get improvements in commercial testing services.

The situation in most European and the Asian countries we tend to have most contact with is far more pragmatic and sane about COVID-19 and most of them have it at least as under control as we have. So, the risks are likely not much different to moving between Kerry and Dublin.

The US, or certainly certain parts of it, are unfortunately a mess right now and a bit of sensible precaution would be advisable.
The same applies to Brazil and to a range of other countries that may have difficulties controlling spread.

The US is really bizarre as the spread is happening due to political notions and reality denial, not lack of resources. It should be well able to contain this but hasn't got the leadership or societal cohesion to do it anymore.

In my view, unless and until the US gets this under control, we have to take sensible precautions and the most logical one would probably be testing.

Ideally it should be a couple of swabs at a US testing clinic before departure, stay at home until you're going to the airport and your proof of having no COVID-19 would be logged and you'd be clear to go.

I'm pretty sure most people coming into Ireland on vacation or people returning to visit families and so on aren't likely to want to inadvertently carry in COVID-19 either. It's not like it's some kind of terrible burden to ask them to get tested. In general we don't have the kind of mass-market, low budget sun-seeking tourism that say Spain or Florida have, so it's unlikely to be an extremely difficult thing to achieve.

For business travellers it probably makes a hell of a lot of sense to be getting tested anyway to avoid picking it up or spreading it around. It would open up business travel a lot more widely if we could get to a stage where testing was convenient and frequent.

It looks to me like we are going to be dealing with the reality of this situation for at least another 12 months and possibly longer, so we need (globally) to start coming up with strategies to contain it properly. Being offended by the notion someone might be tested or quarantined isn't really going to achieve anything. The reality of it is we need to manage this properly and with least impact on day-to-day life.

Excellent post .
Proof of no Covid detected within 72 hours , or mandatory testing on arrival and quarantine while waiting for test result for all presenting from high risk areas like US and Brazil .
Many would opt for the former , I would think .

AdamD

Newtown90 wrote: »

Yes they were Dubs...

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/cluster-covid-19-cases-after-22339770.amp

Very busy around killarney this weekend again. Hard to exactly clamp down on people visiting I guess but the lack of social distancing is annoying.

I mean on the one hand you have the government encouraging 'staycations', and I highly doubt the people of Killarney would want to clamp down on visits, the place lives off tourism. Obviously a party of 30 is a bit excessive..

13 of us heading to Killarney for a few nights next week, life goes on.

KrustyUCC

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Analysis of cases as of midnight Thursday 9th July - 25588 cases (+24)

Healthcare Workers +5
Clusters +24
Cases associated with clusters +37

Age Range Affected
0-4 No Change
5-14 +4
15-24 +11
25-34 +1
35-44 +5
45-54 +2
55-64 No Change
65-74 +1
75-84 No Change
85+ No Change

Cases by County
Carlow +1
Dublin +13
Galway +4
Kerry +1
Kildare +3
Sligo +1
Wicklow +2

Interesting that health care workers are almost 20% of the cases

Zonda999

I thought Cork would have been up more given the GAA clubs..

Goldengirl

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sorry but the drinking issue is everywhere. Plenty of pictures online of other towns and cities but none making the front page of the papers. Its not just a Dublin issue.

2 of the above issues you've listed are fairly straight forward public order issues for the Gardai but they seem to not be doing much. Anyway Dame Lane is I'm told at the moment fairly quiet. Looks like the tactic of give everyone a scare by telling them we won't move to phase 4 is working.

The cluster of 9 in Dublin I've a funny feeling is the Kerry cluster.

Reported as mainly Kerry Cork HSE area ,but yes maybe a couple of clusters from that alright .

Itssoeasy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

2 deaths 23 new cases

So it's staying steady at mid twenties which I suppose is good. Two deaths is obviously two too many.

Zonda999

Eod100 wrote: »

Where can you find figures for increase day to day for counties out of curiosity?

I'm not sure thats published but if you look at the press releases for consecutive days, you can work it out for yourself

Gael23

I see no great cause for panic in those numbers. Once it holds around that level that’s not all bad.
We need to accept an increase as things open up, nothing we can do about that.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

I mean on the one hand you have the government encouraging 'staycations', and I highly doubt the people of Killarney would want to clamp down on visits, the place lives off tourism. Obviously a party of 30 is a bit excessive..

13 of us heading to Killarney for a few nights next week, life goes on.

As stated earlier they know this and can use contract tracing to round up the rest of them. This is not March and the system can now easily cope with a cluster that would have filled us with horror back then.

stephenjmcd

AdamD wrote: »

I mean on the one hand you have the government encouraging 'staycations', and I highly doubt the people of Killarney would want to clamp down on visits, the place lives off tourism. Obviously a party of 30 is a bit excessive..

13 of us heading to Killarney for a few nights next week, life goes on.

It explains why yesterday they were putting huge emphasis on house parties as these tests were clearly now coming through the system and being reported.

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It explains why yesterday they were putting huge emphasis on house parties as these tests were clearly now coming through the system and being reported.

I think you’re right about the Dublin figures being the Kerry cluster

stephenjmcd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Interesting that health care workers are almost 20% of the cases

I'm glad they began targeted testing again, healthcare workers cases seem to continually remain high.

owlbethere

What are our numbers like now in relation to our heads per population? I'm not great at figuring out sums.

What is it like in comparison to other European countries per head of population like Italy, Germany, France?

Eod100

AdamD wrote: »

I mean on the one hand you have the government encouraging 'staycations', and I highly doubt the people of Killarney would want to clamp down on visits, the place lives off tourism. Obviously a party of 30 is a bit excessive..

13 of us heading to Killarney for a few nights next week, life goes on.

If the media reports are accurate, it seemed person there had already tested positive so seems like a very easy thing to avoid.

Obviously people can be asymptomatic but if people socialise outdoors as much as possible, maintain social distancing and hand hygiene etc it mitigates the risk.

Goldengirl

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I don’t agree with everywhere. I have seen zero incidents in Cork City or even from friends in Killarney in the past two weeks.

Citizen , there is the case that is ongoing about the partying in Highfield Road , back of UCC , at the moment .So not zero, but adjust for population and it would be similar enough.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I think you’re right about the Dublin figures being the Kerry cluster

would explain alot seeing as in the last few days they seem to be bringing up house parties more and more even though they've been going on for a good while.

These tests were clearly working through the system and tracing has identified the cluster. Which is a good thing that it seems to have been caught quite quickly

AdamD

Eod100 wrote: »

If the media reports are accurate, it seemed person there had already tested positive so sees like a very easy thing to avoid.

Obviously people can be asymptomatic but if people socialise outdoors as much as possible, maintain social distancing and hand hygiene etc it mitigates the risk.

Yeah that's a bit mental alright, the article worded it a bit weirdly so wasn't clear.

Eod100

Zonda999 wrote: »

I'm not sure thats published but if you look at the press releases for consecutive days, you can work it out for yourself

Thanks. Yeah maybe it's when the numbers are small they don't to prevent people being identified but when people can calculate it manually doesn't seem very top secret.

ACitizenErased

Goldengirl wrote: »

Citizen , there is the case that is ongoing about the partying in Highfield Road , back of UCC , at the moment .So not zero, but adjust for population and it would be similar enough.

That’s not a new thing? Thats a year round issue and unrelated to COVID. It’s a noise court case.

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I'm glad they began targeted testing again, healthcare workers cases seem to continually remain high.

It is the type of environment where we can exercise a good level of infection control and you'd like to see it remain as standard policy.

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

It is the type of environment where we can exercise a good level of infection control and you'd like to see it remain as standard policy.

Yeah exactly and this isn't having a go at nurses, doctors or any hosptial staff but some settings in the past have had awful infection control, far to often do we see visitor bans etc due to outbreaks