Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ExMachina1000

circadian wrote: »

Not sure what your point is here.

That's ok.

ExMachina1000

salmocab wrote: »

Only one of them questioned the likes of mc cain and claimed he knew more than generals.

Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

Trump though. So bold

salmocab

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

Trump though. So bold

Not sure your making a point here.

extra gravy

salmocab wrote: »

Not sure your making a point here.

It's just the usual whataboutery.

Cody montana

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

A jaysus poor Joe. Haven't heard that fact mentioned too much.
Almost as if different people are held to different standards. Say it ain't so

Do you think he should have gone to Vietnam to fight in a war if he had asthma?

Cody montana

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

Trump though. So bold

Trump is busy killing America citizens.
Over 130 THOUSAND so far.

ChelseaRentBoy

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

Trump though. So bold

Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...

ExMachina1000

Cody montana wrote: »

Do you think he should have gone to Vietnam to fight in a war if he had asthma?

Yes.

Cody montana

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Yes.

Then I can’t help you I’m afraid, you’ve gone too far.

Wanderer78

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Trump, Bill Clinton, Bush and Sanders all dodged the draft under various excuses.

I'd have no problem with trying to dodge the draft either, wars are generally started for the benefit of the few, while many soldiers forced into war are from poorer backrounds, wars rarely solve anything, but regularly cause far worse outcomes.

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

Sanders has given millions of people globally some sort of hope that all this can be turned around before we destroy ourselves, he has mobilised these people, provided them with energy and momentum, he has shown it is in possible to elect an intelligent and caring person

Cody montana

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...

The most peaceful president?
A quick google gives me this.

“Record 7,423 US bombs dropped in Afghanistan in 2019: Report“

“Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama’s numbers“

Are you people connected to any form of reality?

ExMachina1000

Cody montana wrote: »

Trump is busy killing America citizens.
Over 130 THOUSAND so far.

In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
Etc etc

What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

Ridiculous

Leroy42

Its is always very when Trump supporters, who supported him because he tells it like it is, going to drain the swamp, sort out the elites and put manners on politicians, always use these very same politicians as an excuse for Trump.

If we take ExM at there word, then Trump is no better or worse than all the other politicians for either side.

So its gone from Trump going to MAGA to Trump is equally as terrible as all the politicians I hate.

ExMachina1000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Sanders has given millions of people globally some sort of hope that all this can be turned around before we destroy ourselves, he has mobilised these people, provided them with energy and momentum, he has shown it is in possible to elect an intelligent and caring person

When did this happen?
Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere

ExMachina1000

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its is always very when Trump supporters, who supported him because he tells it like it is, going to drain the swamp, sort out the elites and put manners on politicians, always use these very same politicians as an excuse for Trump.

If we take ExM at there word, then Trump is no better or worse than all the other politicians for either side.

So its gone from Trump going to MAGA to Trump is equally as terrible as all the politicians I hate.

I don't like Trump whatsoever. The billionaire who cares about the little guy. Yeah right. His election campaign played a blinder. He will be out on his ear by end of election no doubt. He has helped make the world a worse place.

Trump won because people are desperate. The economy of the world relys on constant growth. People are being left behind. Trump ran on a campaign of blaming the other guy. People fell for it.

Not everything in life is pidgeon holed into left v right. People seem to have forgotten that

Timberrrrrrrr

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...

What makes you say that?

Leroy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

When did this happen?
Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere

Covid will, hopefully at least something good may come of it, shows America's the value of healthcare available to all. Essentially Trump has made Covid Testing free to all. Will people be able to see that giving people access to healthcare is best for everyone?

Also, given his handouts to the farmers, his handouts to companies to keep jobs, his bailouts to companies, his $1500 payment to everyone, isn't Trump the real socialist?

Seems to me if one is scared of a drift to socialism then Trump is one to steer clear of.

Wanderer78

ExMachina1000 wrote:

When did this happen? Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere

Its been happening ever since he was elected, it's been a gradual process, he's potentially been one of the most successful American politicans to reach a wide audience globally, including here in Ireland, in which he's been able to gather large amounts of people to hear him speak, he's extremely intelligent and well informed. You don't need to win to get somewhere in life

Cody montana

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
Etc etc

What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

Ridiculous

Every other leader took the virus seriously.
Trump lied and downplayed it at every turn.

Thousands of lives could have been saved.
He is responsible.

ExMachina1000

Leroy42 wrote: »

Covid will, hopefully at least something good may come of it, shows America's the value of healthcare available to all. Essentially Trump has made Covid Testing free to all. Will people be able to see that giving people access to healthcare is best for everyone?

Also, given his handouts to the farmers, his handouts to companies to keep jobs, his bailouts to companies, his $1500 payment to everyone, isn't Trump the real socialist?

Seems to me if one is scared of a drift to socialism then Trump is one to steer clear of.

Society needs both capitalism and socialism to function. Economic growth is essential. Looking after people who are struggling is essential.

There has to be an agreeable mix in there that can be found. Division and hatred means nobody wins.

*Except the rich and powerful who live by a different set of rules

StringerBell

extra gravy wrote: »

It's just the usual whataboutery.

It's tiring actually, same thing every time like clockwork. It makes no point because there isn't a point to make just an attempt to start the circle of look over there again.

ExMachina1000

Cody montana wrote: »

Every other leader took the virus seriously.
Trump lied and downplayed it at every turn.

Thousands of lives could have been saved.
He is responsible.

State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous

Wanderer78

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Society needs both capitalism and socialism to function. Economic growth is essential. Looking after people who are struggling is essential.

Society is in desperate need of a new form of capitalism, our current form, neoliberalism/neoclassical, is slowly failing all, including for the wealthy, possibly collapsing

Leroy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
Etc etc

What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

Ridiculous

Essentially yes, that is what being a leader is all about, being responsible.

The mitigation is how they dealt with the crisis. Did they take it seriously, did they follow medical and scientific advice or ignore it? The virus itself is not their fault, but their response is.

On any measurement Trump response has not only not being sufficient, he has actively worked to increase the effect through disinformation, politcalization and, quite frankly, his complete incompetence.

He has failed to land even within the generous standards that he set himself. So by his own admission he has failed.

ExMachina1000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Society is in desperate need of a new form of capitalism, our current form, neoliberalism/neoclassical, is slowly failing all, including for the wealthy, possibly collapsing

I agree.

ExMachina1000

StringerBell wrote: »

It's tiring actually, same thing every time like clockwork. It makes no point because there isn't a point to make just an attempt to start the circle of look over there again.

You will never agree with me and I will never agree with you.
Iv accepted it, time you did so too.

Nice little poem

volchitsa

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You will never agree with me and I will never agree with you.
Iv accepted it, time you did so too.

Nice little poem

Do you think that political leaders bear no responsibility for anything that happens under their administration then?

I mean, surely when there's a catastrophe, let's say a tsunami, while nobody would blame the PM at the time for the event itself, they do have to take some responsibility for how the emergency services respond, whether they were sufficiently well funded and so on?

Otherwise, what are elected representatives for, if not just to get their noses in the trough?

Lolle06

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous

Oh, I must have missed Leo, Macron, Conti etc. telling us all that Covid-19 will be gone by April...? When did they say that? Did they also peddle certain made-up „treatments„ to their people ? Or did they wish to hold back testing, because it would make the numbers look „bad“? Did they reduce the Global Pandemic Response team by 80% in their countries, too? Or sell medical equipment abroad even though they were already informed that a pandemic is imminent to hit their own country? Please, point me to this information because I can‘t seem to find it...?

Timberrrrrrrr

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous

From the man himself. Or do his own words not count when it's him in the firing line?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

ExMachina1000

volchitsa wrote: »

Do you think that political leaders bear no responsibility for anything that happens under their administration then?

I mean, surely when there's a catastrophe, let's say a tsunami, while nobody would blame the PM at the time for the event itself, they do have to take some responsibility for how the emergency services respond, whether they were sufficiently well funded and so on?

Otherwise, what are elected representatives for, if not just to get their noses in the trough?

Of course they do. They aren't held to account enough in most cases. We rumble on from scandal to scandal here.

In the American case Trump was very poor from the start. Always one eye on the election and economy. He doesn't give a hoot about the common man or woman.

If you want to throw Trump under the bus I'd suggest throwing the governors in there too. The mayor of New York goes in second

ExMachina1000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

From the man himself. Or do his own words not count when it's him in the firing line?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20

Remember that thing you said 7 years ago?

I'm holding that against you now. Flakey at best

feelings

Exactly right. Now you're getting it.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Remember that thing you said 7 years ago?

I'm holding that against you now. Flakey at best

volchitsa

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Of course they do. They aren't held to account enough in most cases. We rumble on from scandal to scandal here.

In the American case Trump was very poor from the start. Always one eye on the election and economy. He doesn't give a hoot about the common man or woman.

If you want to throw Trump under the bus I'd suggest throwing the governors in there too. The mayor of New York goes in second

"What about the states' governors?" is just that, whataboutery. I agree they've done badly, and that lots of countries did poorly too. How does that make Trump's behaviour okay? They all wanted to be in power, and that means taking responsibilty - it's the grown up definition of political power (as opposed to the toddler one, of having subordinates to pander to your every whim, which seems to be Trump's view).

For all of them, IMO, their records should be thoroughly examined and they should have to answer for their mistakes. The time for that may be after the main panic is over, but it needs to be done.

In the meantime, even a cursory glance shows that Trump has been particularly disastrous. He's in another league from most heads of state - probably only his pal Bolsonaro has done worse. If some of the state governors end up in that basket too, so be it. It's possible that Cuomo made a huge mistake with the care homes, and if so, he should pay the price too.

ExMachina1000

volchitsa wrote: »

"What about the states' governors?" is just that, whataboutery. I agree they've done badly, and that lots of countries did poorly too. How does that make Trump's behaviour okay? They all wanted to be in power, and that means taking responsibilty - it's the grown up definition of political power (as opposed to the toddler one, of having subordinates to pander to your every whim, which seems to be Trump's view).

For all of them, IMO, their records should be thoroughly examined and they should have to answer for their mistakes. The time for that may be after the main panic is over, but it needs to be done.

In the meantime, even a cursory glance shows that Trump has been particularly disastrous. He's in another league from most heads of state - probably only his pal Bolsonaro has done worse. If some of the state governors end up in that basket too, so be it. It's possible that Cuomo made a huge mistake with the care homes, and if so, he should pay the price too.

You first sentence said looking at state governors (in a federal system) is whataboutery

Next paragraph says they should be investigated in time.

Which is it?

If you quickly skim through this you will get an idea how a federal system works. Might clear up some areas.

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/constitutional-law/the-federal-system-of-government-constitutional-law-essay.php

Christy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You first sentence said looking at state governors (in a federal system) is whataboutery

Next paragraph says they should be investigated in time.

Which is it?

If you quickly skim through this you will get an idea how a federal system works. Might clear up some areas.

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/constitutional-law/the-federal-system-of-government-constitutional-law-essay.php

How do you think Trump (see thread title) is handling the pandemic. Especially with regards to minimising the severity of it. Encouraging places to open too soon, discouraging the use of masks, attempting to discredit the CDC and attempting to hold massive indoor events?

He does not have all the power in the US but can you deny he has a lot of it? Oh feel free to add on a bit about him threatening governors who didn't follow the Trump line. I believe there was a nice prayer day in there somewhere. So he can have effect. If he has had a positive effect in terms of keeping numbers lower at any point feel free to stick that in as well.


Your posts come off as desperately trying to talk about anyone but Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread.

volchitsa

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You first sentence said looking at state governors (in a federal system) is whataboutery

Next paragraph says they should be investigated in time.

Which is it?

If you quickly skim through this you will get an idea how a federal system works. Might clear up some areas.

https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-essays/constitutional-law/the-federal-system-of-government-constitutional-law-essay.php

No, I'm saying that at this stage using the alleged record of one leader (state governor or another country altogether) to mitigate actual failings by someone else - in this case Trump, who is the subject of the thread - is whataboutery.

Secondly, after the main crisis is over, they should all have to explain and justifiy their failings. Obviously one can't have the same expectations from the head of a poor country with an ailing heath service as if the richest country in the world - especially one that we were being told just before this struck, with a flourishing economy.

Similarly with state governors compared to the POTUS - they all have their level of responsibility and powers. I don't think Trump should be blamed for actions that were within the remit of the state. I do think he should be blamed for his own actions. As should they.

But their separate failures don't justify failures by anyone else. Patterns of failure are interesting though. Female leaders seem to have done better than average, "alpha male" leaders, worse than average. Again, that can be looked into after the fact, for now it's just a remark.

ExMachina1000

Christy42 wrote: »

How do you think Trump (see thread title) is handling the pandemic. Especially with regards to minimising the severity of it. Encouraging places to open too soon, discouraging the use of masks, attempting to discredit the CDC and attempting to hold massive indoor events?

He does not have all the power in the US but can you deny he has a lot of it? Oh feel free to add on a bit about him threatening governors who didn't follow the Trump line. I believe there was a nice prayer day in there somewhere. So he can have effect. If he has had a positive effect in terms of keeping numbers lower at any point feel free to stick that in as well.


Your posts come off as desperately trying to talk about anyone but Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread.

Iv made about 8 posts in the last hour. I mentioned trump in at least 6 of them

What about this one:

"I don't like Trump whatsoever. The billionaire who cares about the little guy. Yeah right. His election campaign played a blinder. He will be out on his ear by end of election no doubt. He has helped make the world a worse place.

Trump won because people are desperate. The economy of the world relys on constant growth. People are being left behind. Trump ran on a campaign of blaming the other guy. People fell for it"

uptherebels

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Remember that thing you said 7 years ago?

I'm holding that against you now. Flakey at best

No, it's about not holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself.

StringerBell

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You will never agree with me and I will never agree with you.
Iv accepted it, time you did so too.

Nice little poem

You miss the point.

salmocab

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Remember that thing you said 7 years ago?

I'm holding that against you now. Flakey at best

You’ve posted about something Biden did in the 60s and things presidents did longer than 8 years ago. Trump also gave out about Obama playing golf should that also not count as it happened before he played much more golf? I get your not a Trump fan but it’s this kind that happened in the past thing that lets him away with a ridiculous amount.

Timberrrrrrrr

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Remember that thing you said 7 years ago?

I'm holding that against you now. Flakey at best

Trump spent years slating Obama on Twitter, There's a saying these days when it comes to Trump,

There's always a Tweet.

Because he said it in 13 it's not relevant now?

Christy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Iv made about 8 posts in the last hour. I mentioned trump in at least 6 of them

What about this one:

"I don't like Trump whatsoever. The billionaire who cares about the little guy. Yeah right. His election campaign played a blinder. He will be out on his ear by end of election no doubt. He has helped make the world a worse place.

Trump won because people are desperate. The economy of the world relys on constant growth. People are being left behind. Trump ran on a campaign of blaming the other guy. People fell for it"

And yet you seem committed to arguing for him at every turn. Sure people can't be held accountable for what they said before they realised they wouldn't just be a hurler on the ditch.

And some of those posts are sure Trump is bad but we should talk about X. We have seen it 100 times before. Clinton, Biden, Obama, MSM, now the governors. It frequently comes on the form ah yeah I agree about Trump but how about we focus on something else.


You can argue you are not a Trump supporter all you like. I don't really care. I still disagree with your arguments that he shouldn't be held to his statements he made a few years before he was out into power. Or that he is powerless in a pandemic. Indeed his influence over the US is such that he is likely the most powerful person in the US as a whole even if governors have a little more in individual sections.

Lolle06

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Trump spent years slating Obama on Twitter, There's a saying these days when it comes to Trump,

There's always a Tweet.

Because he said it in 13 it's not relevant now?

No, because ever since he is POTUS he just does whatever he critizised Obama about constantly and he never takes responsibility for negative things... it’s not about being „flakey“ - this always was his MO. Deflection is another one.

PropJoe10

I love that he's now saying it's great to wear a mask. Now, I'm wondering whether a) he genuinely doesn't remember saying the stuff he has said about masks because he has some sort of mental deficiency or b) he knows that his general support base is so dumb that they won't either remember or care that he's refused to wear a mask thus far. Another interesting and confusing day in Trump-land.

Billy Mays

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I love that he's now saying it's great to wear a mask. Now, I'm wondering whether a) he genuinely doesn't remember saying the stuff he has said about masks because he has some sort of mental deficiency or b) he knows that his general support base is so dumb that they won't either remember or care that he's refused to wear a mask thus far. Another interesting and confusing day in Trump-land.

I'm gonna go with option b

Sean.3516

Can anyone explain to me what was wrong with Trump’s July 4th speech at Mount Rushmore?

I’ve heard nothing from the media but how “dark” and “divisive” and yada yada. I listened to the speech. Frankly it was a generic patriotic speech that any generic Republican could have given.

There was not a single reference to the Confederate “dead traitors” that Senator Tammy Duckworth accused Trump of defending in the speech. How in the hell can anyone describe the speech as “dark” is beyond me.

FrostyJack

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I love that he's now saying it's great to wear a mask. Now, I'm wondering whether a) he genuinely doesn't remember saying the stuff he has said about masks because he has some sort of mental deficiency or b) he knows that his general support base is so dumb that they won't either remember or care that he's refused to wear a mask thus far. Another interesting and confusing day in Trump-land.

There are plenty of bootlickers like this one, just when you think they cannot any more disgusting.

https://twitter.com/KwCongressional/status/1282074636168167424

Muahahaha

Thepoet85 wrote: »

I have no doubt in my mind, the US is heading towards some form of civil war. A narcissistic megalomaniac like Trump simply won't walk away from this. He would rather see the country tear itself apart than admit defeat.

Recent example: His response to Coronavirus

I think civil war is too strong a term to use but I can see a situation developing post election where Trump goes rabble rousing about a fixed election and tells his base to hit the streets, complete with their automatic machine guns. Youve all these weekend warrior militia types in the US and it would only take one of them to take a pot shot at the National Guard who will respond in kind and then it could really kick off. Id imagine the FBI and CIA are already war gaming a scenario like this taking place in preparation for it.

pixelburp

"intensely masculine" Jesus Christ what kind of "beta" male sycophantic insecurity nonsense is this? Is it really any wonder America's recent CoVid curve is a ski slope with this kind of rationalisation about the most basic common sense approach to prevention. What hope have the sensible when it becomes a question of "manhood". And were I inclined to judge pillars of manliness, Trump wouldn't rank on the list. More like the puffing pretension of power. Hookers, gold leaf and the hair dye of those incapable of ageing with dignity

alchemist33

FrostyJack wrote: »

There are plenty of bootlickers like this one, just when you think they cannot any more disgusting.

https://twitter.com/KwCongressional/status/1282074636168167424

Isn't this exactly what rightwingers would describe as a "cuck"? Sounds like that guy would gladly give his wife to Trump