Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Chips Lovell

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Detritus70

tonycascarino wrote: »

Thought Trump won that debate fairly comfortably. I honestly don't think Biden has what it takes to be the President.

Did you think he won before "stand back and stand by" or afterwards?

VinLieger

Detritus70 wrote: »

Did you think he won before "stand back and stand by" or afterwards?

Id take an educated guess for that poster trump had already won last nights debate around 4 years ago

Roanmore

Didn't watch the debate, the general consensus seems to be it was a mess.

Did Hunter Biden come up, talk beforehand was that Trump would hammer Biden on it?

Penn

Roanmore wrote: »

Didn't watch the debate, the general consensus seems to be it was a mess.

Did Hunter Biden come up, talk beforehand was that Trump would hammer Biden on it?

Haven't watched debate, but all I read was that when Biden was talking about his son Beau, who served in Iraq, Trump started shouting about Hunter.

The former vice president was criticizing Trump for a report in The Atlantic in which he called service members who were killed in action “losers.”

“My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there," Biden said, referencing his son Beau Biden, who died of brain cancer in 2015. "He was not a loser, he was a patriot and the people left behind there are heroes."

Beau Biden served in the Delaware Army National Guard and was deployed to Iraq in 2008, where he was awarded the Bronze Star.

But Trump pivoted to the Democratic nominee's other son, Hunter Biden.

"Oh, really? Are you talking about Hunter?" Trump asked.

When Biden said he was talking about Beau Biden, who served as Delaware's attorney general, Trump said “I don't know Beau."

"I know Hunter," he continued. "Hunter got thrown out of the military… he was dishonorably discharged," Trump claimed, without evidence. “For cocaine use,” the president continued.

“That’s not true,” Biden interjected.

Trump mischaracterized the Navy's actions against Hunter Biden, falsely stating he was dishonorably discharged. Hunter Biden failed a drug test for cocaine a month after his commissioning into the Navy Reserve and was administratively discharged in 2014.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/09/30/beau-was-not-loser-biden-defends-his-late-sons-military-service-after-reports-trump-disparaging-serv/3584230001/

Field east

Roanmore wrote: »

Didn't watch the debate, the general consensus seems to be it was a mess.

Did Hunter Biden come up, talk beforehand was that Trump would hammer Biden on it?

Did not hear the full debate.
But when DT brought up the Biden son that was apparently thrown out of the army Biden could have , at the very least made the point that “ We’ll at least he tried . Did you or any of your family members join the army and if not , then why not . “
And maybe there is a good reason why Biden’s son was discharged from the army. Eg maybe the army found that he had a growing spur on his heal that was not picked up in the medical when he applied?

Another point Biden could make is as follow.:-
IF all the Americans were successful in going down the Trump strategy of finding something to succeed in being exempted from serving in the army - these army guys are stupid any, getting shot, arrested and that-
AND came up with all kinds of strategies to avoid paying tax then where would that leave AMERICA.
What very, very, very wealthy American lady said that “only little people pay tax”. I think she was jailed for what I don’t know in the end
:-

PropJoe10

Starting to genuinely wonder if there's ever been an individual with less personal dignity than Donald Trump. I won't be bothering catching any of that debate last night. The headlines seem to be enough!

rolling boh

Trump failed to win over many if any undecided voters by his performance he absolutely needed to catch voters not in his base so if the polls are even close to being correct it's a real long shot he gets re elected . Can't for the life of me see many who did not vote for him last time voting for him this time .He seems to be well behind in some vital states .

Nody

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Starting to genuinely wonder if there's ever been an individual with less personal dignity than Donald Trump. I won't be bothering catching any of that debate last night. The headlines seem to be enough!

The white house speakers would come to mind selling out and knowingly and blatantly lie on his behalf. At least Trump can claim psychological issues as a cause for his behavior, I'm sure his born spur doctor will happily sign him a new note.

Professor Moriarty

I'm truly at a loss in trying to understand how anyone with half a brain could watch Trump's performance last night and consider him fit for office. I can only surmise that fear, stupidity and ignorance has taken them a long way down the rabbit hole.

looksee

bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54350538

Interesting approach from the BBC. Their response to the debate seems to attempt to be even handed but in fact largely ignores Trump's continuous interruptions and shouting while disproportionately criticising Biden's responses. You'd almost get the impression there was some political sway there.

pixelburp

I YouTube'ed bits and pieces of the "discussion". Watching Chris Wallace lose his cool was the standout moment for me and very indicative of just where this Presidency sits in terms of tone and maturity. This should have, could have been an easy first debate; moderated by the one noted ally station to Trump. A slam dunk where any other GOP candidate could have acted Presidential and the man at the tiller. Instead, we saw Wallace desperately begging, pleading, Trump to relax and stop ... well, stop behaving like a spoilt brat. The sitting President acted like a toddler; sulking and shouting constant refusal to play ball. Even trotting out the "well, why don't you tell <the other guy>..." whine.

The headlines called it "Chaotic" and they're right. Biden came out better by dint of not coming off as petulant. Trump, as if it weren't already clear, is a whiny, tedious man-child in the body of a septuganarian. We can quibble about the politics of the Presidency but in terms of behaviour this was peak Trump. All shouting bluster, with all the dignity of a toddler refusing to eat his vegetables, Wallace the haggard parent trying, and trying again for Trump to just take a bite.

Penn

looksee wrote: »

bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54350538

Interesting approach from the BBC. Their response to the debate seems to attempt to be even handed but in fact largely ignores Trump's continuous interruptions and shouting while disproportionately criticising Biden's responses. You'd almost get the impression there was some political sway there.

I'd call it even-handed in that I don't think either will have won or lost any discernible amount of votes because of it.

StringerBell

hynesie08 wrote: »

If Biden is going to make claims about members of trumps team, he needs to make sure he's got the right person. If Kelly Anne Conway didn't say that, she'll drag them over the coals.

She did say it though.

Quin_Dub

Penn wrote: »

I'd call it even-handed in that I don't think either will have won or lost any discernible amount of votes because of it.

Which on the basis of the current standings in the polls is a clear win for Biden.

He doesn't need to win over more voters , he needs to hold on to what he has and Trump did absolutely nothing to pull any voters away from Biden.

Christy42

Penn wrote: »

I'd call it even-handed in that I don't think either will have won or lost any discernible amount of votes because of it.

Will anyone change their minds at any point? Who is still undecided after 4 years of Trump? Either people want the proud boys on stand by to take action or they don't and will vote accordingly. Trump is entirely based on identity politics and people will vote on how they feel there.

StringerBell

As Biden is ahead that debate went well. He doesn't have to do anything other than stay the course, steady and hinged will be enough for him.

I think these debates are never going to be any good, and never really going to win over any voters but you can lose voters potentially. From last night's one, having watched the entire thing neither man will have won over those vehemently opposed to them, obviously but trump again will have alienated some of those middle of the road voters who he needs, I don't think Biden said anything outlandish or scary for your fence sitters whereas trump refused to acknowledge a problem with the far right, told a little group who are so desperate for attention they will amplify his quote over and over again as free advertising for the democrats to stand down, and stand by, went after his opponents family, including a dead son and attacked entire cities and states!

It was a typical trump performance, this is what will be reliable. Biden thankfully started quite slowly I thought but kept a steady pace throughout and even landed some of those counter punches and really rattled trump, he could not get under Bidens skin and that made him very ratty and unhinged.

That was the softball debate, expect worse in the next in terms of actual content. Might even watch the VP debate to remind myself what a debate should look like or go back to the old Hitches/Buckley/Vidal etc videos on YouTube to wash my brain out.

A solid start for the Biden team, in all honesty better than I expected and as trump et al. have set the bar so low for what's expected of Biden surely they will Be absolutely blown away that managed to stay awake and use coherent sentences for 90 minutes!

aloyisious

I'd give it 70/30 to Biden because of Trump's needless interruptions [incl of the moderator - who's a member of the media Trump attacked] and 75/25 to Biden because of Trump's "I/She/They" denials on statements. Any attacks by Biden on Trump were made on the basis of him being in charge while Trump went personal by attacking Hunter Biden.

I'd have to take a look back at a video of the debate to see if I'm correct that Trump denied [near the start] saying there were fine people on both sides in the Charlottesville incident by claiming he never said that. One thing Biden must do, if the law and order issue comes up again with Trump, is to certify that all federal judges vacancies will be filled rapidly by judges and lawyers experienced in judicial practice.

Non-provision of a healthcare act by Trump to replace the one he's disestablishing is a weak spot in his armour and one he cant deny.

bnt

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm truly at a loss in trying to understand how anyone with half a brain could watch Trump's performance last night and consider him fit for office. I can only surmise that fear, stupidity and ignorance has taken them a long way down the rabbit hole.

It's because people aren't really voting for him as a person, they're voting in opposition to the Democrats and their candidate. People have been sold the myth that Democrats are soft on illegal immigration (Obama wasn't), favour high tax rates, and are against "traditional values" such as religion - hence the push to load up the Supreme Court with conservatives before the election. Trump is just the figurehead, Mitch McConnell is running the show from Capitol Hill.

5GMadeMeDoIt

I actually think these types of debates suit Biden. While the 'Sleepy Joe' and 'dementia' jabs are obvious nonsense I also think it's fair to say that Biden's not at the same level he was at 10 years ago. If he was up against a much younger, sharper intelligent opponent with coherent arguments I think he would be at a disadvantage.

All he has to do in these debates is keep calm and act in the least bit adult and he's the winner.

Tchaikovsky

For these debate situations alone, I wish the Dem candidate was younger, or Bernie, to watch Trump be eviscerated on everything he's said and done over the past 4 years.
Trump is the embodiment of the belligerent, obnoxious, scumbag bully who deserves to be humiliated in front of the world.
The constant face pulling and childish interruptions, coupled with the weak moderation, would've taken a lot of restraint to not sink to his level so Biden did quite well.

Retr0gamer

I don't think it's fair to call chris wallace's moderation weak. He did the best he could to try and rein in trump. Will be interesting to see if the other moderators will be able to control him.

salmocab

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to call chris wallace's moderation weak. He did the best he could to try and rein in trump. Will be interesting to see if the other moderators will be able to control him.

The reality is if someone has decided not to behave them self then it’s hard with nothing more than asking at your disposal to stop them. The bar of acceptability has been lowered so much that people no longer behave as they would have done in the past, dignity in the office was left at the door.

Quin_Dub

salmocab wrote: »

The reality is if someone has decided not to behave them self then it’s hard with nothing more than asking at your disposal to stop them. The bar of acceptability has been lowered so much that people no longer behave as they would have done in the past, dignity in the office was left at the door.

I'd agree - Really the only solution would seem to be to give the moderator some more tools to deal with this stuff.

A mute button on the mic for a start and maybe something akin to a chess clock for the timed speaking allocations.

If all the moderator can do is say "please stop" it's just not going to work

briany

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd agree - Really the only solution would seem to be to give the moderator some more tools to deal with this stuff.

A mute button on the mic for a start and maybe something akin to a chess clock for the timed speaking allocations.

If all the moderator can do is say "please stop" it's just not going to work

I like the mute button as an idea, but I think I know how Trump would play it.

"They're trying to SILENCE me for telling the TRUTH!!1"

Usual suspects would lap that right up.

looksee

Its a bit like the whole of US governance, based on a set of rules with the understanding that they will be respected but not much in the way of enforcement. Thus giving the first person who comes along with no inhibitions, no integrity and no self-awareness the opportunity to walk right through standards and traditions of courtesy and honour the chance to do as they please with no restraints.

amandstu

Couldn't bear to watch in case Biden bottled it. The fact he seems to have come through it bodes well as I have the impression Trump has just the one shot in his disgusting locker.

Biden has lived to fight again and has so many tools at his disposal when he gets a chance to deploy them in a calmer environment.

He has no shortage of material and is ,it seems the front runner.

He can afford to take his foot off the pedal when he feels like it.

looksee

One point that has not been commented on was Trump's response to Biden's denying the truth of Hunter getting 3.5m from Russia - he was bleating that his family had given up so much to 'help out' I think he put it.

hynesie08

StringerBell wrote: »

She did say it though.

I know, like I said, Biden was using overarching terms all night (your people, officials), when trump pushed him, he almost seemed to pull a name out of thin air..... If he'd have named the wrong person the republicans would have destroyed him.

I'm happy he got it right.

This thread is a lot more measured than I expected. There must be 20 threads open all across the site discussing Trump and many with the comment "Im not a Trump supporter but.."