Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Igotadose

Good for Trump and his administration for naming an aircraft carrier after a Black sailor from WWII. Terribly overdue.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917816651/a-military-first-a-supercarrier-is-named-after-an-african-american-sailor

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread is a lot more measured than I expected. There must be 20 threads open all across the site discussing Trump and many with the comment "Im not a Trump supporter but.."

Here is one for you.

I’m not a Trump supporter but there is a lot of mis- reporting And selective quoting going on as to how he answered the question of condemning the far right.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-refuses-condemn-white-supremacy-034140874.html


When you listen to the Entire piece the first thing he says, ie. The answer he gives to the question of will he condemn the far right is:

“Sure I’m willing to do that”.

He then goes on to say other things.

Now I have to add the following because some people automatically assume your a Trump supporter when you don’t attack him and therefore they attack you. I think he’s a terrible person, a racist self serving cheat of the highest order, but this passage of the debate is being Mis-reported and inaccurately quoted by many media outlets.

listermint

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Here is one for you.

I’m not a Trump supporter but there is a lot of mis- reporting And selective quoting going on as to how he answered the question of condemning the far right.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-refuses-condemn-white-supremacy-034140874.html


When you listen to the Entire piece the first thing he says, ie. The answer he gives to the question of will he condemn the far right is:

“Sure I’m willing to do that”.

He then goes on to say other things.

Now I have to add the following because some people automatically assume your a Trump supporter when you don’t attack him and therefore they attack you. I think he’s a terrible person, a racist self serving cheat of the highest order, but this passage of the debate is being Mis-reported and inaccurately quoted by many media outlets.

Of course il condemn them who who who the proud boys ? Ok proud boys stand back and standby.

.........


No one puts words in trumps mouth he named a group he knows all about., He ordered them to stand down but quickly adding to stand by because he wants to use them for his own purposes that is to garner votes from people like them and maybe even throw in some chaos come November.


You don't have to misquote anyone to just listen to his words. This isn't a media problem it's a trump problem.

Quin_Dub

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Here is one for you.

I’m not a Trump supporter but there is a lot of mis- reporting And selective quoting going on as to how he answered the question of condemning the far right.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-refuses-condemn-white-supremacy-034140874.html


When you listen to the Entire piece the first thing he says, ie. The answer he gives to the question of will he condemn the far right is:

“Sure I’m willing to do that”.

He then goes on to say other things.

Now I have to add the following because some people automatically assume your a Trump supporter when you don’t attack him and therefore they attack you. I think he’s a terrible person, a racist self serving cheat of the highest order, but this passage of the debate is being Mis-reported and inaccurately quoted by many media outlets.

Bottom line - He provided lots of people with a sound bite and it's pretty terrible for him and it's going to be in play for quite some time.

The same would have happened if Biden had delivered a significant verbal gaffe.

Literally within minutes , the phrase "Stand Back and Stand by" was being added to logos and banners by White Supremacists - It was a terrible phrase.

Was it a really a dog whistle to his supporters or was it just the product of the tortured language of a deeply inarticulate man absolutely butchering what should have been his simplest answer of the night?

Who knows which it was , but it really doesn't matter - The words came out of his mouth , the damage is done.

hetuzozaho

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Here is one for you.

I’m not a Trump supporter but there is a lot of mis- reporting And selective quoting going on as to how he answered the question of condemning the far right.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-refuses-condemn-white-supremacy-034140874.html


When you listen to the Entire piece the first thing he says, ie. The answer he gives to the question of will he condemn the far right is:

“Sure I’m willing to do that”.

He then goes on to say other things.

Now I have to add the following because some people automatically assume your a Trump supporter when you don’t attack him and therefore they attack you. I think he’s a terrible person, a racist self serving cheat of the highest order, but this passage of the debate is being Mis-reported and inaccurately quoted by many media outlets.

“Sure I’m willing to do that”

But then he didn't?

Just like his taxes. And numerous other things. He's always willing, it's always coming. He's probably strongly looking at condemning the Proud Boys.

Detritus70

listermint wrote: »

Of course il condemn them who who who the proud boys ? Ok proud boys stand back and standby.

.........


No one puts words in trumps. Mouth he named a group he knows all about., He ordered them to stand down but quickly adding to stand by because he wants to use them for his own purposes that is to garner votes from people like them and maybe even throw in some chaos come November.


You don't have to misquote anyone to just listen to his words. This isn't a media problem it's a trump problem.

This time there is no "there's no evidence", "that was hearsay", "that was taken out of context", "he was joking", "he said that ages ago", "it's just a left-wing lie and distortion", "this is gossip from an ex employee with an axe to grind" and whatever else mealy-mouthed bullsh*t they usually come up with.
It is there. Audio and video. Millions heard it. The context is absolutely cut and dry.
He told a racist milita group to stand by.
We heard all the excuses and none of them work.
At this stage they are defending a racist for the simple reason that they are racist themselves.
I will not even be debating that, since any attempt to do so is nothing but bad faith trolling.

looksee

Detritus70 wrote: »

This time there is no "there's no evidence", "that was hearsay", "that was taken out of context", "he was joking", "he said that ages ago", "it's just a left-wing lie and distortion", "this is gossip from an ex employee with an axe to grind" and whatever else mealy-mouthed bullsh*t they usually come up with.
It is there. Audio and video. Millions heard it. The context is absolutely cut and dry.
He told a racist milita group to stand by.
We heard all the excuses and none of them work.
At this stage they are defending a racist for the simple reason that they are racist themselves.
I will not even be debating that, since any attempt to do so is nothing but bad faith trolling.

Absolutely agree with what you are saying, and he is a white supremacist and a racist, but I tend to agree with Quin_Dub

was it just the product of the tortured language of a deeply inarticulate man absolutely butchering what should have been his simplest answer of the night?

that this was a slip - a very much Freudian slip, but looking at his body language before he said it, he was preparing his lie and intended to sound as though he was condemning just one specific group - I don't mind which group, I'll sacrifice one, but I am not going to give a blanket condemnation. But he incompetently made a mess of it.

lawrencesummers

listermint wrote: »

Of course il condemn them who who who the proud boys ? Ok proud boys stand back and standby.

.........


No one puts words in trumps mouth he named a group he knows all about., He ordered them to stand down but quickly adding to stand by because he wants to use them for his own purposes that is to garner votes from people like them and maybe even throw in some chaos come November.


You don't have to misquote anyone to just listen to his words. This isn't a media problem it's a trump problem.

You haven’t quoted what was said accurately

listermint

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You haven’t quoted what was said accurately

Wouldnt matter if i was paraphrasing or not. Youd be here to defend it. oh wait.... here you are.

lawrencesummers

hetuzozaho wrote: »

“Sure I’m willing to do that”

But then he didn't?

Just like his taxes. And numerous other things. He's always willing, it's always coming. He's probably strongly looking at condemning the Proud Boys.

Yes, he said he would, that’s the part that is being omitted from most reporting.

Quin_Dub

Detritus70 wrote: »

This time there is no "there's no evidence", "that was hearsay", "that was taken out of context", "he was joking", "he said that ages ago", "it's just a left-wing lie and distortion", "this is gossip from an ex employee with an axe to grind" and whatever else mealy-mouthed bullsh*t they usually come up with.
It is there. Audio and video. Millions heard it. The context is absolutely cut and dry.
He told a racist milita group to stand by.
We heard all the excuses and none of them work.
At this stage they are defending a racist for the simple reason that they are racist themselves.
I will not even be debating that, since any attempt to do so is nothing but bad faith trolling.

I think he got caught in his brain over what to say.

Maybe he meant to say "Stand Back and Stand Down" , but as we all know Trump NEVER corrects himself when he flubs a word , his brain won't let him , so he ends up owning a frankly appalling phrase that I think is going to haunt him over the next few weeks.

Equally you have the view from Rick Santorum

Former GOP Sen. Rick Santorum, a frequent defender of President Trump, said on CNN that Trump declined to explicitly condemn white supremacists when asked to at Tuesday's debate because he doesn't like to "say something bad about people who support him."

There's some logic to that , if you think back to the incident a few weeks ago regarding the QAnon loons where he said "I don't know much about the movement, other than I understand they like me very much. Which I appreciate. But I don't know much about the movement".

lawrencesummers

listermint wrote: »

Wouldnt matter if i was paraphrasing or not. Youd be here to defend it. oh wait.... here you are.

The disclaimer wasn’t enough for some people.

Caegan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yes, he said he would, that’s the part that is being omitted from most reporting.

He didn't condemn anyone, he said sure he would 3 times and then didn't. It's very easy to see if you watched the debate. It's the same as how he would release his tax returns, he would, he will l, he didn't.

VinLieger

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yes, he said he would, that’s the part that is being omitted from most reporting.

Because it doesn't properly equate to actually condeming them. His answer should have been "Yes, I condemn white supremacists" and not "Sure I’m willing to do that", see the difference?


So hes either a racist who said he would do something and then didn't or is so stupid that he thought the words he was saying were condemning white supremacists but in actuality ended up being an unintentional dog whistle to them which they took as his support and a message to be ready for whats next.

lawrencesummers

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Bottom line - He provided lots of people with a sound bite and it's pretty terrible for him and it's going to be in play for quite some time.

The same would have happened if Biden had delivered a significant verbal gaffe.

Literally within minutes , the phrase "Stand Back and Stand by" was being added to logos and banners by White Supremacists - It was a terrible phrase.

Was it a really a dog whistle to his supporters or was it just the product of the tortured language of a deeply inarticulate man absolutely butchering what should have been his simplest answer of the night?

Who knows which it was , but it really doesn't matter - The words came out of his mouth , the damage is done.

The other side of it shows how poor his opponent and the moderator were.

The moderator should have insisted on the Clear condemnation He asked for, and Biden should have hammered him there and then for what he said about ‘stand back, stand by’ but neither happened.

That was a big opportunity missed by Biden, it shows to my how poor his ability to think on his feet is.

Detritus70

Detritus70 wrote: »

This time there is no "there's no evidence", "that was hearsay", "that was taken out of context", "he was joking", "he said that ages ago", "it's just a left-wing lie and distortion", "this is gossip from an ex employee with an axe to grind" and whatever else mealy-mouthed bullsh*t they usually come up with.
It is there. Audio and video. Millions heard it. The context is absolutely cut and dry.
He told a racist milita group to stand by.
We heard all the excuses and none of them work.
At this stage they are defending a racist for the simple reason that they are racist themselves.
I will not even be debating that, since any attempt to do so is nothing but bad faith trolling.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The other side of it shows how poor his opponent and the moderator were.

The moderator should have insisted on the Clear condemnation He asked for, and Biden should have hammered him there and then for what he said about ‘stand back, stand by’ but neither happened.

That was a big opportunity missed by Biden, it shows to my how poor his ability to think on his feet is.

As I said...
This wasn't the fault of the moderator, the camera, the libtards, the soundguy, Biden, Hillary, the Illuminaty, Trump told a racist milita to stand by.
End of.

hetuzozaho

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yes, he said he would, that’s the part that is being omitted from most reporting.

I agreed he said he would. But he didn't? Correct? Isn't that what matters?

aloyisious

amandstu wrote: »

Couldn't bear to watch in case Biden bottled it. The fact he seems to have come through it bodes well as I have the impression Trump has just the one shot in his disgusting locker.

Biden has lived to fight again and has so many tools at his disposal when he gets a chance to deploy them in a calmer environment.

He has no shortage of material and is ,it seems the front runner.

He can afford to take his foot off the pedal when he feels like it.

The beauty [if that's the right term] of the debates is that with Trump as the person running the ship, any cock-up in the U.S during the debates period is his to answer for to Biden, who just has to keep his nose clean and hope that Trump keeps on giving him material to use. Rudy is supposed to be Trump's tutor for the debates and not much was said about Ukraine and Hunter by Trump so that boat may have sailed.

Any comment Trump might have made recently about the moderating of the 2016 debates would not be good as two of those Mods [Wallace and Scully] are here this time as well. Watching Wallace last night reminding Trump that the GOP had agreed to the terms and conditions of the debates [incl the moderating of same] was worthwhile. It might be worthwhile for Steve Scully and Kristen Welker to publicly remind both Trump and Biden of those ground rules agreed to when greeting them with the cameras rolling to watch their P & Q's.

The 2nd debate between Pence and Harris on 7th Oct will be made more interesting if the GOP get Trump's USSC nominee past the post.

duploelabs

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The other side of it shows how poor his opponent and the moderator were.

The moderator should have insisted on the Clear condemnation He asked for, and Biden should have hammered him there and then for what he said about ‘stand back, stand by’ but neither happened.

That was a big opportunity missed by Biden, it shows to my how poor his ability to think on his feet is.

The other person who dug Trump's hole in that segment was Trump. He failed to condem a white supremisist group. You can blame anyone else you want, but it was Trump's screw up, no one else's

Retr0gamer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The other side of it shows how poor his opponent and the moderator were.

The moderator should have insisted on the Clear condemnation He asked for, and Biden should have hammered him there and then for what he said about ‘stand back, stand by’ but neither happened.

That was a big opportunity missed by Biden, it shows to my how poor his ability to think on his feet is.

It's not the moderator's job to offer opinion or coax answers out of the candidates. They are just there to ensure an orderly discussion.

And what would Biden have gained by pressing trump. Trump was given enough rope to hang himself and he did. Asking him to clarify could have given him a chance to weasel out of it. Him saying it is now public record and he has to own it now.

Detritus70

duploelabs wrote: »

The other person who dug Trump's hole in that segment was Trump. He failed to condem a white supremisist group. You can blame anyone else you want, but it was Trump's screw up, no one else's

"I strongly condemn any extremist group using or condoning violence". And that is not even specifically condemning the left or the right, he could have weasled it like this and not look a total twat.
Now how hard would that have been? He could have written it in the palm of his hand and read that out loud.
Racists defending a racist.

lawrencesummers

Detritus70 wrote: »

As I said...
This wasn't the fault of the moderator, the camera, the libtards, the soundguy, Biden, Hillary, the Illuminaty, Trump told a racist milita to stand by.
End of.

I never said it was anyone else’s fault, I said it was an opportunity missed and poor Moderating

Lolle06

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yes, he said he would, that’s the part that is being omitted from most reporting.

When is he going to do that, when not right there and then? Perhaps after the election? When he hasn’t got any use for them anymore? He does rely on their votes after all, so I personally wouldn’t hold my breath.

lawrencesummers

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not the moderator's job to offer opinion or coax answers out of the candidates. They are just there to ensure an orderly discussion.

And what would Biden have gained by pressing trump. Trump was given enough rope to hang himself and he did. Asking him to clarify could have given him a chance to weasel out of it. Him saying it is now public record and he has to own it now.

It’s precisely the moderators job to get answers from candidates, that’s why they ask questions.

VinLieger

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s precisely the moderators job to get answers from candidates, that’s why they ask questions.

No its really not, they ask the questions and moderate the tone and discussion of the debate, its not their job to push for answers, your confusing interviews and journalists with debates and moderators.

Detritus70

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s precisely the moderators job to get answers from candidates, that’s why they ask questions.

One could argue that yes, the moderator asked Trump to condemn right wing extremists and he told them to stand by.
So what do you think of Trump telling the Proud Bouys to stand by?

joe40

Detritus70 wrote: »

As I said...
This wasn't the fault of the moderator, the camera, the libtards, the soundguy, Biden, Hillary, the Illuminaty, Trump told a racist milita to stand by.
End of.

Absoloutely, that is what happened and I personally find it appalling.

But will it actually hurt Trump?
I can't imagine anyone that is capable of voting for Trump in the first place, having much of a problem with a thinly veiled call to arms. It just feeds into fear and paranoia that is been peddled to his base and the wider electorate.

listermint

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The disclaimer wasn’t enough for some people.

Disclaimers meaningless given the response to the content.

Were they drug tested beforehand?

The Donald definitely wasn't on his usual prescription.

duploelabs

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s precisely the moderators job to get answers from candidates, that’s why they ask questions.

And its a politicians job to dodge any questions they don't want to answer. Trump did that with the white supremacists question, he also did it with the health care plan where we went on about insulin being as cheap as water yet said nothing about this supposed health plan that was promised to sign on 'the very first day of office' (Trump's words), that was over 4 years ago