Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Patser

But they are already trying to change the narrative. Here's Trump Jr saying he misspoke almost immediately after debate, making excuses before going off on a rant about Antifa to deflect

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1311146465012715520

duploelabs

duploelabs wrote: »

The other person who dug Trump's hole in that segment was Trump. He failed to condem a white supremisist group. You can blame anyone else you want, but it was Trump's screw up, no one else's

What are you basing the proud boys being a white supremacist group on?

Quin_Dub

joe40 wrote: »

Absoloutely, that is what happened and I personally find it appalling.

But will it actually hurt Trump?
I can't imagine anyone that is capable of voting for Trump in the first place, having much of a problem with a thinly veiled call to arms. It just feeds into fear and paranoia that is been peddled to his base and the wider electorate.

Trump almost certainly didn't lose any voters last night , but he equally didn't gain any and he absolutely did not gain any significant numbers.

There's a link in this thread or maybe one of the others to a panel discussion with swing state "undecided" voters after the debate.

There were 15 of them - 6 made up their mind as a result of the debate , 4 went for Biden and only 2 chose Trump. The others were still not sure but a lot of them were leaning toward Biden but looking for a bit more reasons to vote for Biden instead of voting against Trump. Which is fair enough.

If that is a reasonable representation of the impact on undecided voters then that is a utter disaster for Trump.

hetuzozaho

Lolle06 wrote: »

When is he going to do that, when not right there and then? Perhaps after the election? When he hasn’t got any use for them anymore? He does rely on their votes after all, so I personally wouldn’t hold my breath.

Exactly. To come on here and say that Trump saying he would condemn them and then in the next sentence not condemning them is someway bad reporting... I give up.

The man can do no wrong in some people's eyes.

duploelabs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What are you basing the proud boys being a white supremacist group on?

Apologies for the misnomer, I meant to say far right bunch of c*nts

hetuzozaho

Patser wrote: »

But they are already trying to change the narrative. Here's Trump Jr saying he misspoke almost immediately after debate, making excuses before going off on a rant about Antifa to deflect

Jr saying that Trump said "stand down" when that's the one thing he didn't say. :pac: Lying runs in the family anyway.

It's just the usual.

- he never said that
- he must have been taken out of context
- ok he did say it, but he probably just misspoke / was being sarcastic
- who cares if he did say that, the proud boys are great and antifa are the problem

Penn

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Exactly. To come on here and say that Trump saying he would condemn them and then in the next sentence not condemning them is someway bad reporting... I give up.

The man can do no wrong in some people's eyes.

Agreed. He said he'd condemn them, asked for a specific group (even though Wallace was only asking him to denounce white supremacists in general), then when Biden said Proud Boys, Trump's "denouncement" of them was "Stand back and stand by"

He tried to obfuscate the question by asking for a specific group, then his "denouncement" of them has clearly only emboldened them, believing Trump is now calling on them to act when he says so.

That is not denouncing white supremacists. That is so far removed from denouncing white supremacists that it's not even funny.

Quin_Dub

Patser wrote: »

But they are already trying to change the narrative. Here's Trump Jr saying he misspoke almost immediately after debate, making excuses before going off on a rant about Antifa to deflect

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1311146465012715520

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Jr saying that Trump said "stand down" when that's the one thing he didn't say. :pac: Lying runs in the family anyway.

It's just the usual.

- he never said that
- he must have been taken out of context
- ok he did say it, but he probably just misspoke / was being sarcastic
- who cares if he did say that, the proud boys are great and antifa are the problem

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think he got caught in his brain over what to say.

Maybe he meant to say "Stand Back and Stand Down" , but as we all know Trump NEVER corrects himself when he flubs a word , his brain won't let him , so he ends up owning a frankly appalling phrase that I think is going to haunt him over the next few weeks.

Equally you have the view from Rick Santorum



There's some logic to that , if you think back to the incident a few weeks ago regarding the QAnon loons where he said "I don't know much about the movement, other than I understand they like me very much. Which I appreciate. But I don't know much about the movement".

Called it!

Does Don Jr read Boards???

lawrencesummers

Lolle06 wrote: »

When is he going to do that, when not right there and then? Perhaps after the election? When he hasn’t got any use for them anymore? He does rely on their votes after all, so I personally wouldn’t hold my breath.

And that goes back to the poor moderating, he Was asked a question and gave a fumbling answer to it.

My issue is that the answer is being cherry picked in its reporting by a lot of media.

hetuzozaho

Penn wrote: »

Agreed. He said he'd condemn them, asked for a specific group (even though Wallace was only asking him to denounce white supremacists in general), then when Biden said Proud Boys, Trump's "denouncement" of them was "Stand back and stand by"

He tried to obfuscate the question by asking for a specific group, then his "denouncement" of them has clearly only emboldened them, believing Trump is now calling on them to act when he says so.

That is not denouncing white supremacists. That is so far removed from denouncing white supremacists that it's not even funny.

Yep and I'm even open to him having misspoke, but he could have tweeted a correction if he wanted to.

Patser

I get that he could say Stand back instead of Stand down - and that they do have a significant difference in meaning.

But the Stand by? Stand by means still be ready, that's not condemnation, that's not misspeak, that's not a mix up.

lawrencesummers

Detritus70 wrote: »

One could argue that yes, the moderator asked Trump to condemn right wing extremists and he told them to stand by.
So what do you think of Trump telling the Proud Bouys to stand by?

Go back and read my post if you want to know. I’ve explained it already.

VinLieger

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And that goes back to the poor moderating, he Was asked a question and gave a fumbling answer to it.

Its the moderators fault he fumbled the answer?

hetuzozaho

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And that goes back to the poor moderating, he Was asked a question and gave a fumbling answer to it.

My issue is that the answer is being cherry picked in its reporting by a lot of media.

Well I'm sure he'll see the media harping on and correct his answer then.

lawrencesummers

listermint wrote: »

Disclaimers meaningless given the response to the content.

It wasn’t enough for you.

seamus

Arguing the toss over whether he did condemn white supremacy, or what he might have *meant* to say is irrelevant anyway.

What matters is that this terrorist group and several others have taken Trump's remarks as a call to arms, and Trump should be hauled over the coals for that alone.

But he won't. Because some will always defend him, no matter what. The most dangerous and incompetent individual I've seen in any public office in my lifetime, and there's a queue of sycophants to defend him because his agenda aligns with their fascism.

listermint

VinLieger wrote: »

Its the moderators fault he fumbled the answer?

Yes , the moderators.

And then also the media for reporting it.

Patser

Also I'm waiting to see if NYT go after him about his 'millions' in personal taxes claims. He again and again said he'd paid millions and would release his tax returns, even when asked by Wallace very clearly that this was in relation to his personal taxes for 2016 and 2017 - and in direct contradiction to the NYT story of $750.

I can see the pressure on this increasing over next few weeks as the Proud boys comment fades and media a look at this other claim

VinLieger

seamus wrote: »

Arguing the toss over whether he did condemn white supremacy, or what he might have *meant* to say is irrelevant anyway.

What matters is that this terrorist group and several others have taken Trump's remarks as a call to arms, and Trump should be hauled over the coals for that alone.

But he won't. Because some will always defend him, no matter what. The most dangerous and incompetent individual I've seen in any public office in my lifetime, and there's a queue of sycophants to defend him because his agenda aligns with their fascism.

Indeed this is the exact kind of messaging the Qanon crazies are waiting to latch onto as a signal for the start of whatever they are waiting for to happen this week.

lawrencesummers

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Well I'm sure he'll see the media harping on and correct his answer then.

Doubtful, but the problem with inaccurate reporting of the answer is that it shows the media’s primary agenda not to be accuracy and impartiality but something else be that their own political leanings, traffic attraction or reporting to suit their base.

This is just an example of the anti Trump slant that is put on things, there are plenty of example of it happening the other way as well.

The media is as much a part of the problem of societal polarisation as anything else.

Rezident

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm truly at a loss in trying to understand how anyone with half a brain could watch Trump's performance last night and consider him fit for office. I can only surmise that fear, stupidity and ignorance has taken them a long way down the rabbit hole.

42% of americans are still voting for him, apparently. It seems unlikely that 42% of 335m people can be stupid. Ignorance of wider/foreign issues seems a possibility but I think the biggest reason must be the Fear. Fear of the radical Left.



I am pretty worried about the radical Left too, radicals on both sides of the political divide and in general have ruined this world and things are not getting better. COVID looks set to doom the presidency of whoever wins the electoral college race. Presumably Biden must win the popular vote at this stage.

5GMadeMeDoIt

I'm not sure why 'stand down' is that much better? Stand down is an order you give to people who follow younot to people you are against. Like an officer may give to his troops. It could in no way be considered a condemnation. It is in fact an admission that you have some control and a rapport with these people.

lawrencesummers

seamus wrote: »

Arguing the toss over whether he did condemn white supremacy, or what he might have *meant* to say is irrelevant anyway.

What matters is that this terrorist group and several others have taken Trump's remarks as a call to arms, and Trump should be hauled over the coals for that alone.

But he won't. Because some will always defend him, no matter what. The most dangerous and incompetent individual I've seen in any public office in my lifetime, and there's a queue of sycophants to defend him because his agenda aligns with their fascism.

And it’s a pity that Biden didn’t have the wherewithal to do it at the time.

lawrencesummers

VinLieger wrote: »

Its the moderators fault he fumbled the answer?

It’s the moderators fault that he constantly allowed the debaters to go off topic and he didn’t do enough to bring them back to what was asked.

hetuzozaho

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Doubtful, but the problem with inaccurate reporting of the answer is that it shows the media’s primary agenda not to be accuracy and impartiality but something else be that their own political leanings, traffic attraction or reporting to suit their base.

This is just an example of the anti Trump slant that is put on things, there are plenty of example of it happening the other way as well.

The media is as much a part of the problem of societal polarisation as anything else.

But this is a thread about Trump, I've no interest in discussing the media with you.

I watched the debate myself. Trump didn't condemn them.
He can now clear that up.

Agreed?

Penn

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And it’s a pity that Biden didn’t have the wherewithal to do it at the time.

As others have said, it does more damage to Trump not to have challenged it at the time, as that allows Trump to say he misspoke or to correct himself. Now Trump has to at best issue a correction and clarify what he meant almost a day after the event, where it's already the main story people are talking about from the debate.

That comment by Trump did the most damage to either candidate last night. Biden letting it lie means Trump now has to deal with the fallout from it.

VinLieger

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s the moderators fault that he constantly allowed the debaters to go off topic and he didn’t do enough to bring them back to what was asked.

Fvcking lol what debate did you watch? Love how you are making him responsible for trumps infantile behaviour though.

Anyway if Wallace had started shouting or tried any harder to control Trump you'd just be on here spinning that he was on Bidens side etc etc

It really is pointless arguing with some people both on this forum and site-wide as they're given free reign to spout whatever they like. The point has been made the Trump wouldn't last half a dozen posts on this board yet his "supporters" are allowed to.

I hesitate to even entertain any "debate" or "discussion" about what he meant to say, whether he was serious, all the rest of the bull**** obfuscation that we all knew would be thrown in but anyway. I made the point during the debate that Biden straight up said Trump was a racist. Trump didn't even acknowledge it much less deny it. Mitt Romney, John McCain, GW Bush, any of them would have taken massive umbrage with such an accusation. Trump doesn't. That says all that needs to be said on the matter.

Christy42

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s precisely the moderators job to get answers from candidates, that’s why they ask questions.

He got an answer. Trump wants them to stand by. The moderator can't be responsible for Trump misstep ping or his lack of English.

Though he is not the brightest and has a very poor level of English I don't believe the excuse. He was asked a question and gave an answer and is being rightly taken to task for his answer. Now people are getting annoyed because quotes by Trump are being used to make Trump look bad.

Now we need a specific message from Trump disavowing them.

lawrencesummers

Christy42 wrote: »

He got an answer. Trump wants them to stand by. The moderator can't be responsible for Trump misstep ping or his lack of English.

Though he is not the brightest and has a very poor level of English I don't believe the excuse. He was asked a question and gave an answer and is being rightly taken to task for his answer. Now people are getting annoyed because quotes by Trump are being used to make Trump look bad.

Now we need a specific message from Trump disavowing them.

I’m not getting annoyed.
The selective reporting has been going on for a long time now, and nobody calls the media out for it unfortunately.