Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Water John

pixelburp wrote: »

America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

TMK Gilead manufacture the drug in Carrigtowhill in Cork. Perhaps the EU should requesition drugs made in the EU?

briany

Igotadose wrote: »

The definition of Trumpism is key. America is in a bad place intellectually because of abject failure of its political and educational systems, both supported fully by Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives. I don't know how it can be fixed, frankly.

I've often heard that American public education systems are under-resourced and overstretched. How bad is it that it can lead to some of the discourse you see being employed over there?

Like, specifically, what kinds of things are not being taught over there that we get taught here such that we don't have such a deeply divided politics and susceptibility to conspiracy theories? (not saying we're totally without guilt on either count).

Inquitus

Water John wrote: »

TMK Gilead manufacture the drug in Carrigtowhill in Cork. Perhaps the EU should requesition drugs made in the EU?

There's no evidence that it improves outcomes, from research done so far it reduces the time people spend seriously ill in hospital by up to 50%, but had no impact on the mortality rate. If this bears out then its only useful for freeing up space in hospitals, and preventing health care systems becoming overstretched, rather than actually directly saving lives.

So the long and the short of it is, with our outbreak well under control for now, Remdesivir offers little to patients in the EU at this point.

moon2

briany wrote: »

I've often heard that American public education systems are under-resourced and overstretched. How bad is it that it can lead to some of the discourse you see being employed over there?

Like, specifically, what kinds of things are not being taught over there that we get taught here such that we don't have such a deeply divided politics and susceptibility to conspiracy theories? (not saying we're totally without guilt on either count).

Teaching the Bible in science class as if it were factual feels like it's a contributing factor here. To support Trump, to a greater or lesser extent, is to choose to believe in things which are objectively not true. To teach and encourage children to reject facts in favour of belief is a problem.

I don't want to get too sidelined into this topic in this thread though.

Edit: just as an example: 40% of practising Christian's do not believe in evolution. I assume this disbelief in evolution has a pretty good chance of stretching across more aspects of the scientific community. Perhaps this was the first visible sign of the rejection of reason and fact we are seeing today.

sid waddell

briany wrote: »

I've often heard that American public education systems are under-resourced and overstretched. How bad is it that it can lead to some of the discourse you see being employed over there?

Like, specifically, what kinds of things are not being taught over there that we get taught here such that we don't have such a deeply divided politics and susceptibility to conspiracy theories? (not saying we're totally without guilt on either count).

Destruction of public education is one element of building a population that will buy into right-wing culture wars.

But imperialism in the educational culture and the culture of a country in general is a key element. That doesn't just mean the educational system itself, but what people read, listen to and look at, and by look at, I include statues in this. Statues are an important element in the official culture of a country. The official culture is like the air we breathe, we cannot exist independently of it, and it shapes us.

Imperialism was always about the hegemony of the "macho" straight, white Christian male. The type who believed he was superior, because, well, he just was, or so he believed. The type who believed in "might is right". The type that did not believe in listening, but in telling others what to do, and telling others, others he believed were inferior, to shut up. The type that believed in his bones that any gain in rights for others meant a loss of rights for him.

That's Trumpism in a nutshell, it's Brexit, it's Putin, it's Modi, Erdogan, Bolsonaro, Xi, Netanyahu, Salvini, Le Pen, Orban, and the DUP.

In the educational system itself history and how it is portrayed is a key element towards grooming young people into a right-wing mindset, so it makes perfect sense how there's a continual effort among right-wing politicians in general across the US and Europe to downgrade and indeed ridicule history and liberal arts subjects, because liberal arts subjects are designed to give people the ability to think, which is not what right-wing politics wants in people.

If there is no real reckoning with the evils of slavery, imperialism or genocide in the official culture of a country, and there has never really been such in the US, UK, France, Russia and Australia among others, it's totally unsurprising then that much of the population will carry an essentially racist, imperialist mindset through their lives and be hostile to critical examination of that past and, on an individual level, be hostile to self-examination as to how it has shaped their mindset.

Being a small country I think is an advantage in terms of reality-based politics. Small countries tend not to carry delusions of greatness. They know they have to work with other smaller states, and indeed bigger ones, in order to prosper. That said, being small is not a foolpoof innoculation against fascism and authoritarianism by any means.

But in Ireland, I think our history of being colonised has been an advantage to us in this era. We have no "glorious history" to hark back to, which is an advantage in guarding against fascism. Our history of colonisation gives most of us, I would like to think, anyway, an identification with the underdog and the "other", though that is not to say we do not have significant problems with racism. Our youth as a state gives us an appreciation for education as a means of continuing to that build that young state, in a positive sense.

I often think there are uncanny comparisons between the hegemonic political and media culture in the US, the UK and Australia and their conceited belief in national "greatness", compared to their smaller and seemingly more sensible neighbours, Canada, Ireland and New Zealand.

That said, for the first 60/70 years of this state's history, the official culture was a backward looking, insular one, and even though the official culture and ruling politicians were not fascist, the culture did contain some elements which are essential to fascism. It seems to me that a lot of small countries which gain independence have to go through a period of reactionary post-colonial insularity and political conservatism based on nationalism and ethnicity. I think we're seeing that in many of the former Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries.

What I think is a common thread between the right-wing fascist or crypto-fascist cultures which exist in the US, the UK, France, Russia, Australia, China, India and Turkey is an obsession with national "greatness" which usually harks back self-consciously to an imagined glorious past associated with military might, but also the classic fascist traits of ultra-nationalism based on ethnicity or religion, and a willingness to blithely dismiss the pain of others who are not part of the dominant ethnic group.

Our one real vulnerable area in terms of guarding against an Irish fascism is the North - it's easy to see how a toxic Irish nationalism could develop if the prospect of a united Ireland is seen to be within reach, or after it happens.

"National greatness" is a truly dreadful concept. It leads to ignorance, arrogance, delusion, fake victimhood, the worst kind of sickening sentimentality, and ultimately mass stupidity in a culture.

Nobody should want to live in a "great" country, just a good, decent, open, free, compassionate one.

pixelburp

Igotadose wrote: »

The definition of Trumpism is key. America is in a bad place intellectually because of abject failure of its political and educational systems, both supported fully by Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives. I don't know how it can be fixed, frankly. It never was about Trump or due to Trump. Trump's just a con, not terribly bright, with a bad case of NPD who felt insulted at the WH Correspondents dinner a number of years ago and finally listened to his tGOP buddies about running for POTUS.

Next time around, they'll have a better candidate, I think that Senator Cotten from Arkansas would be a smoother version of Trump and wouldn't be surprised at all to see him running in 2024.

But, it's America that's the problem. The politicians are what the country is becoming.

Indeed, I'd like to see Biden win purely as an antidote to the national madness happening over there, but a return to normalcy is to also embrace the swamp the Trump 2016 ostensibly claimed to fight. On the face of it, fighting corruption is to be championed. To extend the conversation of BLM, there's systemic problems with America across the board and it does beg the question as to how long the centre can hold. Is it just a country destined to limp along with its thin veneer of dysfunctional democracy or is there a breaking point?

Whatever its problems there's still a unified identity that seems to hold the country together. There's no real enclave of separatists, no state or city that thinks itself slightly distant from Washington, be it through culture, ethnicity or whatnot. But then equally, it feels like the precipice of unrest and discontent can't go on forever. There surely must be a drop somewhere. Maybe the swing to social democracy will be loud and painful - that is the American way.

TomOnBoard

robinph wrote: »

They might be getting the best return on their investments per patient by charging the US health insurers vastly inflated costs, but I would think a market of 7 billion people paying a fraction of the price would be more valuable than one of 350 million who are overcharged. There is only so much money they can gouge out of that 350 million people.

The key here is that Gilead knows that the value of Remdesivir is extremely short-term and they have been able to sell the 2 months production of the drug at an astronomically higher price than the benefit warrants purely on the back of fear, uncertainty and doubt coupled with timing from the need for the Administration to minimise deaths at ALL costs up to November. The drug will be proven to have limited benefit and the 2months supply bought by the US will add little to Covid treatment stories.

Gilead could never supply the needs of the 7 billion, if the drug was that miraculous. And if it was that miraculous, it would be copied by India and China in a heartbeat, and **** patent laws.

TomOnBoard

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It's pointless even talking to McEnany. Listening to her being interviewed is a car-crash. She is a compulsive liar. Trump will tell a blatant demonstrable lie and she will say "The President has never lied to the American people"

On her day 1 presser, as soon as she said “I will never lie to you", it was over.

She lied then... She's lying now... If she's talking, she's lying!

TomOnBoard

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just played around a bit on the RCP Site looking at the Electoral College

The 1st Image is the current state of play as seen by RCP , they have Biden with 222 EC votes in the bag so only needing ~50 to win. Compared to Trump only have 125 locked in.



You can make changes to it yourself , so I adjusted and any State where either candidate had a lead greater than the current polling margin of error I moved to "leaning" (the paler colour) , the grey ones are where the lead is inside the MOE which includes Texas - which is just crazy.

Doing that , shows Biden with a pretty decisive victory right now.

Great find. I'm awaiting my PhD in the post so I can understand it and be able to use it..

Does it translate into Senate and House majority projections?

Inquitus

TomOnBoard wrote: »

On her day 1 presser, as soon as she said “I will never lie to you", it was over.

She lied then... She's lying now... If she's talking, she's lying!

Agreed, I thought it would be hard to find a Press Secretary as deceitful as Sarah Sanders, but in Kayleigh he has outdone himself, I can't bear to watch her sidestep questions, tell lies and generally cover his ass for him.

Water John

She wasn't even a follower of Trump, but a mate told her to get on the Trump train and she amazingly changed her views on diff matters instantly.

sid waddell

TomOnBoard wrote: »

On her day 1 presser, as soon as she said “I will never lie to you", it was over.

She lied then... She's lying now... If she's talking, she's lying!

Like Spicer, she started off with the big lie.

Water John

Spicer was forced to lie, McAnany is very willing.

Itssoeasy

Just kind of doing a catch up of the days news involving trump and the Congress. And the more the months and years change the more it stays the same.

The senate have stripped out of a bill the requirement for political campaigns to report foreign help. I mean presumably this a GOP thing but I mean they aren't even trying to be subtle about it.

Donald trump has called black lives matter a symbol of hate... sorry I can't really form a coherent continuation of that sentence.

I see the descendants of those people commemorated with statues of the confederacy are in favour of removal of the statues which normally should be the people politicians and voters should listen to yet trump is saying he will veto a defence bill which includes renaming us based named after confederate generals.

TomOnBoard

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im presuming that the leak to the NYT about the Russian bounties in Afghanistan came from John Bolton, it might even have been a full chapter in his book but he wasnt allowed publish it under national security rules. Would wonder what other scandals from the Oval Office werent allowed to be published in his book but now will instead be leaked to the national media.

Hadn't thought of that, but you have a valid point..

Professor Moriarty

Inquitus wrote: »

Agreed, I thought it would be hard to find a Press Secretary as deceitful as Sarah Sanders, but in Kayleigh he has outdone himself, I can't bear to watch her sidestep questions, tell lies and generally cover his ass for him.

Telling blatant lies as Press Secretary can be self-defeating. The more she obviously lies and dodges questions the more people will suspect that there are myriad reasons why she is lying. The MAGA clowns aside, people will see her transparent rubbish as a negative and another reason not to trust the Trump administration with four more years in office.

TomOnBoard

Water John wrote: »

TMK Gilead manufacture the drug in Carrigtowhill in Cork. Perhaps the EU should requesition drugs made in the EU?

Yeah... They could try to invoke the same 'National Security' type measures that the US is using to prevent masks being exported to Canada and elsewhere. Good tactic, but I wouldn't use it for Remdesivir. That's not the hill to die on!

nthclare

weisses wrote: »

What specifically don't you like about what democrats have to offer ?

I just don't find them appealing to be honest.

sid waddell

Water John wrote: »

Spicer was forced to lie, McAnany is very willing.

Spicer willingly lied and willingly lied hard.

He knew full well he was lying, and his body language gave it way.

He was "just following orders".

But you have to be willing to follow orders to do what he did.

Spicer also didn't have the excuse that he would be executed if he didn't follow orders.

He would have just walked back into society and got a cushy job somewhere in the RNC or the media.

Spicer is a classic example of somebody who is willing to put naked careerism ahead of any sort of principle. That's how fascism advances.

TomOnBoard

nthclare wrote: »

I just don't find them appealing to be honest.

Like, specifically?

Or is it just a Coke v Pepsi challenge for you?

TomOnBoard

sid waddell wrote: »

Spicer willingly lied and willingly lied hard.

He knew full well he was lying, and his body language gave it way.

He was "just following orders".

But you have to be willing to follow orders to do what he did.

Spicer also didn't have the excuse that he would be executed if he didn't follow orders.

He would have just walked back into society and got a cushy job somewhere in the RNC or the media.

Spicer is a classic example of somebody who is willing to put naked careerism ahead of any sort of principle. That's how fascism advances.

I was with you up until the last sentence. Sean Spicer is nobody's key to the advancement of anything, let alone fascism. Duffy 's Circus maybe...

Now Kayleigh.... That's a very different story...

randomname2005

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Gerrymandering is far less of a problem at the State level - regardless of where you section off the voters to they still all roll up and count overall. I don't believe that any of the states run a "mini electoral college" , they are all just FPTP total count to the best of my knowledge.

It's a huge issue at the Congressional House and State-house level though.

The risk in National Elections is simply voter suppression.

If you gerrymander and close polling stations the other side have a big problem

Itssoeasy

The Lincoln project have another ad out and it may be the best one yet. It's all in Russian with English subtitles. Brilliant.

Sonics2k

So Trump has once again claimed that Covid19 will "just disappear"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-cases-us-fox-news-interview-today-covid-a9596631.html?utm_source=reddit.com

This is in spite of the 40,000 new cases a day in the United States, and possibility that will increase to 100,000.

Itssoeasy

Sonics2k wrote: »

So Trump has once again claimed that Covid19 will "just disappear"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-coronavirus-cases-us-fox-news-interview-today-covid-a9596631.html?utm_source=reddit.com

This is in spite of the 40,000 new cases a day in the United States, and possibility that will increase to 100,000.

He wants and needs it to disappear but unless every public health official in America and around the world are wrong this virus isn't gone away nor is it going away.

sid waddell

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I was with you up until the last sentence. Sean Spicer is nobody's key to the advancement of anything, let alone fascism. Duffy 's Circus maybe...

Now Kayleigh.... That's a very different story...

Spicer started off his tenure as press secretary with the big lie, the one about the size of the inauguration crowd, the one that everybody, including him, knew was an easily disprovable lie that could be disproved within five seconds.

The big lie is key to fascism.

Trump needed foot soldiers to lie flagrantly to set the tone for the cult-like loyalty his fascism would require and Spicer was only too willing to be the public face who knowingly degraded himself by vomiting out those lies.

Cody montana

+45,188 covid cases in the US at the moment.
Deaths are increasing too.
Not good.

Headshot

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Lincoln project have another ad out and it may be the best one yet. It's all in Russian with English subtitles. Brilliant.

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278430418161872909

It's really really good.

"Comrade Trump" will catch on big time.

Jack1985

Cody montana wrote: »

+45,188 covid cases in the US at the moment.
Deaths are increasing too.
Not good.

Once this surging continues and we see hospital overruns that's when deaths will surge and it's happening predominantly in red states.

Cody montana

Jack1985 wrote: »

Once this surging continues and we see hospital overruns thats when deaths will surge and it's happening predominantly red states.

Trump seems to have stopped talking about it.
There is no leadership.
God help the people.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Lincoln project have another ad out and it may be the best one yet. It's all in Russian with English subtitles. Brilliant.

The folks who are doing these adverts are awesome. They have dialled into a media mechanism in the same way as Parscale and Bannon did for Trump in 2016. The fact that they are being harnessed by Never Trumpers is basically giving the (once again) mediocre media ability of the Dems a big pass. So, the 15- 30-second advert media battle is being fought out between two opposing arms of the Republican Party. And the Dems are largely just buying popcorn!

TomOnBoard

sid waddell wrote: »

Spicer started off his tenure as press secretary with the big lie, the one about the size of the inauguration crowd, the one that everybody, including him, knew was an easily disprovable lie that could be disproved within five seconds.

The big lie is key to fascism.

Trump needed foot soldiers to lie flagrantly to set the tone for the cult-like loyalty his fascism would require and Spicer was only too willing to be the public face who knowingly degraded himself by vomiting out those lies.

The big lie that underpins fascism has to be something that is believable and that takes time and effort to disprove. Otherwise, the lie is just Comical Ali stuff and is risible to everyone. Sean's 1st lie was a crass attempt and any moron could see it as such. Later iterations, and particularly Kayleigh type stuff get much closer to the Big Lie as propagated by Goebbels.

sid waddell

Headshot wrote: »

"Comrade Trump" will catch on big time.

Cue Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Krystal Ball and Katie Halper ranting that the Biden campaign is being run by Russia-hating Republicans, no doubt.

Ironically enough the "burn down the state" strategy of the likes of Charles Koch, Steve Bannon and Dominic Cummings, ie. the people who run the Trump/Brexiteer strategy, is modelled on Lenin.

fullstop

Cody montana wrote: »

Trump seems to have stopped talking about it.
There is no leadership.
God help the people.

Of course he has. The only way he could spin it before was that it was the Dem states who couldn’t control the virus...those do nothing democrats. Now it’s going ape in the republican states (because of his ‘open the economy’ bull****) he has no way to spin it so he’ll just pretend it isn’t there.

nthclare

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Like, specifically?

Or is it just a Coke v Pepsi challenge for you?

Ah sure we'll see what happens, it's no big deal really.

I just prefer the republicans to be honest.

sid waddell

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The big lie that underpins fascism has to be something that is believable and that takes time and effort to disprove. Otherwise, the lie is just Comical Ali stuff and is risible to everyone. Sean's 1st lie was a crass attempt and any moron could see it as such. Later iterations, and particularly Kayleigh type stuff get much closer to the Big Lie as propagated by Goebbels.

Of course everybody could see it for what it was. That was the point. It demonstrated the Trump regime would lie about the most ridiculous and most disprovable things, and would therefore lie about everything, that they would troll everybody relentlessly. The point was to make flagrant lying become completely normalised and accepted as a fact of life, to wear down resistance through exhausting people, that so much time would be spent disproving lies that people would become exhausted and start to think they were going nuts, to drain hope from opponents, and that so much noise would be created that institutions would crumble, that attention would be drawn away from the appalling abuses of power, so as to enable them to take place. And that's how it has panned out.

Itssoeasy

Cody montana wrote: »

+45,188 covid cases in the US at the moment.
Deaths are increasing too.
Not good.

Is that so far today ? Not good is a fairly good description.

TomOnBoard

Headshot wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278430418161872909

It's really really good.

"Comrade Trump" will catch on big time.

Great video. It ought to impact on the educated among the undecided/swing voters. However, its overt message relies on the viewer's ability to read a fast moving script, which will exclude many of his core voters from understandings written elements . But that may be it's greatest power... The constant juxtapositioning of Trump and McConnell and even Ryan (who??) with Lenin and Putin tells a story that's far stronger than what's in the contrived subtitling. And that may leave a lasting subliminal message...

Gbear

Dillonb3 wrote: »

You can throw in the Supreme Court judges as well. Next 2 likely justices to retire are both liberal leaning ones and Trump/McConnell will definitely push for conservative ones to lock it down for years to come

I heard a funny suggestion the other day on Al Franken's podcast.


There's a no age limit for SC justices, so nominate a toddler, and they'll be there for 70+ years! :pac:

Headshot wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1278430418161872909

It's really really good.

"Comrade Trump" will catch on big time.

Honestly, it's a load of despicable ignorant bull****.


The use of the cold war imagery bespeaks the absolute basement-tier level of political discourse in the US. The Never Trump Republicans bear a huge amount of the responsibility for the state of the planet, and the advent of Trumpism.


The idea that the problem is a giant evil monolithic empire in Russia is an incredibly convenient excuse for people who legalised bribery in the US, and for whom it suits to play up a narrative that it woz them that did it, when they run in the same oligarchic circles as Trump, and Putin's other cronies.


They're utterly despicable people, and I hope not only is Trumpism defeated, but all the schemes in propagating climate change, war-mongering, religious ignorance, racism and white supremacy, that those supposed honest brokers who are just reasonable people, dontcha'know, and can't be compared to the party they've opportunistically abandoned, are as well.

Cody montana

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Is that so far today ? Not good is a fairly good description.

Number of new daily coronavirus cases in the US tops 52,000 for the first time after eight states hit record highs for new infections and second lockdowns loom across the country.

Quin_Dub

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Great find. I'm awaiting my PhD in the post so I can understand it and be able to use it..

Does it translate into Senate and House majority projections?

That site has details on all the elections - Tends to focus on the "swing" ones , but they are all there

The background on all the Senate races is here

Carfacemandog

nthclare wrote: »

Ah sure we'll see what happens, it's no big deal really.

I just prefer the republicans to be honest.

But on the basis of what? Like any policies or outlooks, or are you just more sold by the sound of the word republican or something?

looksee

In fairness, if you are not really paying attention, the outspoken, me-first, gun-toting woodsman in the city, beautiful-people-preferred, take care of yourself and devil take the hindmost approach to life comes over better on action films than the cerebral, take care of people, everyone has rights character. Yes, I can see how you could have 'feelings' about parties if you judge them on the basis of what makes the best plot line.

sid waddell

Gbear wrote: »

I heard a funny suggestion the other day on Al Franken's podcast.


There's a no age limit for SC justices, so nominate a toddler, and they'll be there for 70+ years! :pac:






Honestly, it's a load of despicable ignorant bull****.


The use of the cold war imagery bespeaks the absolute basement-tier level of political discourse in the US. The Never Trump Republicans bear a huge amount of the responsibility for the state of the planet, and the advent of Trumpism.


The idea that the problem is a giant evil monolithic empire in Russia is an incredibly convenient excuse for people who legalised bribery in the US, and for whom it suits to play up a narrative that it woz them that did it, when they run in the same oligarchic circles as Trump, and Putin's other cronies.


They're utterly despicable people, and I hope not only is Trumpism defeated, but all the schemes in propagating climate change, war-mongering, religious ignorance, racism and white supremacy, that those supposed honest brokers who are just reasonable people, dontcha'know, and can't be compared to the party they've opportunistically abandoned, are as well.

I don't disagree at all with your assessment of the people behind the Lincoln Project, or the bit about legalised bribery or the part these people have played in pushing the US to a position where Trump was the logical outcome. I thoroughly agree with it. I think they're horrible neo-liberals and neo-cons (neo-liberals and neo-cons are generally the same people in the US) and are indeed a large part of the problem.

It's a tricky one. In general I hate these sort of ads - but Trump is a fascist, and is in bed with Putin. It would be hard to make a credible case that any of the Lincoln Project ads are not actually describing the reality of the situation, in context. It would be hard to make out that Trump does not deserve to be eviscerated in the manner these ads are doing.

Russia, more than anybody, has pushed the phrase "the new cold war". And that is what they are waging. Putin's reign is based on the idea that "the west" is out to get Russia simply because they're Russian. Fake victimhood.

So both things are true. Russia is waging a new cold war, and the Lincoln Project are horrible people who are trying to absolve themselves of something that they played a large part in creating.

Biden I think has to largely run an Obama type campaign and offer an optimistic view of America. But the sheer evilness of Trump's regime also has to be highlighted.

Doesn't it?

So who highlights it, or should highlight it, and how? The Biden campaign themselves, or people who are not very nice themselves but are willing, on this occasion, to campaign for your ends?

Do you take all the help you can get, from whatever source, even an enemy of an enemy who will be your enemy again if you win?

The reality is these sort of ads are very effective.

But who's actually seeing them? It seems to me they're largely an internet based thing, I believe they're also being shown on television in the Washington DC area. But the Washington DC area and surrounding states is not where Biden has a problem. It's the swing states where he could have the problem.

Are these ads actually getting through to the people they need to be aimed at? It would seem they may not be.

aloyisious

Katrina Pierson, an advisor to the Trump campaign, still seems to be on the job after copying and passing on a meme that Congresswoman Ilhan Omar from Minnesota is a terrorist. The fact that Ilhan's a Muslim originally from Somalia just might have something to do with the campaign fine person's opinion. Seems she's also a bit teed-off with the make-up of the USSC after some members decision on abortion and believes Trump will improve it.

Gbear

sid waddell wrote: »

I don't disagree at all with your assessment of the people behind the Lincoln Project, or the bit about legalised bribery or the part these people have played in pushing the US to a position where Trump was the logical outcome. I thoroughly agree with it. I think they're horrible neo-liberals and neo-cons (neo-liberals and neo-cons are generally the same people in the US) and are indeed a large part of the problem.

It's a tricky one. In general I hate these sort of ads - but Trump is a fascist, and is in bed with Putin. It would be hard to make a credible case that any of the Lincoln Project ads are not actually describing the reality of the situation, in context. It would be hard to make out that Trump does not deserve to be eviscerated in the manner these ads are doing.

Russia, more than anybody, has pushed the phrase "the new cold war". And that is what they are waging. Putin's reign is based on the idea that "the west" is out to get Russia simply because they're Russian. Fake victimhood.

So both things are true. Russia is waging a new cold war, and the Lincoln Project are horrible people who are trying to absolve themselves of something that they played a large part in creating.

Biden I think has to largely run an Obama type campaign and offer an optimistic view of America. But the sheer evilness of Trump's regime also has to be highlighted.

Doesn't it?

So who highlights it, or should highlight it, and how? The Biden campaign themselves, or people who are not very nice themselves but are willing, on this occasion, to campaign for your ends?

Do you take all the help you can get, from whatever source, even an enemy of an enemy who will be your enemy again if you win?

The reality is these sort of ads are very effective.

But who's actually seeing them? It seems to me they're largely an internet based thing, I believe they're also being shown on television in the Washington DC area. But the Washington DC area and surrounding states is not where Biden has a problem. It's the swing states where he could have the problem.

Are these ads actually getting through to the people they need to be aimed at? It would seem they may not be.

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.
I enjoy the Talking Feds podcast, but the host, Harry Litman, a former US Attorney and current law professor, thought that Bill Barr was going to be one of the "adults in the room" when he was brought in, and it shows just how despicable people who have already proven to be crooks have this appearance in political discourse of being reasonable. Barr didn't just turn 180 into a corrupt fixer under Trump. That's what he's always been.

They're part of a group who ultimately have broadly similar goals to the Trumpists, but they want to go about it more circumspectly, both because it's more effective, and because it allows them a veneer of respectability that allows them to continue to live in polite society, while simultaneously advocating war crimes and destroying the environment.


I almost hate them more, because Trump is almost like a force of nature. He's only barely sentient, and can't really be dealt with rationally. He's a sort of fascism idiot savant. The others are calculating, and have a more considered theoretical bedrock to their positions, that bespeaks a much higher degree of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.

Quin_Dub

Gbear wrote: »

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.

They're part of a group who ultimately have broadly similar goals to the Trumpists, but they want to go about it more circumspectly, both because it's more effective, and because it allows them a veneer of respectability that allows them to continue to live in polite society, while simultaneously advocating war crimes and destroying the environment.


I almost hate them more, because Trump is almost like a force of nature. He's only barely sentient, and can't really be dealt with rationally. He's a sort of fascism idiot savant. The others are calculating, and have a more considered theoretical bedrock to their positions, that bespeaks a much higher degree of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.

Indeed - You do wonder if their anger with Trump has more to do with Trump pulling back the curtain on the underlying reasons for what are pretty generic GOP activities rather than any anger at the actions themselves

They want him gone for "Saying the quiet part out loud" as it were.

funnights74

It's laughable when he keeps saying what a tremendous job his administration has been doing,the numbers are insane, i would wonder what numbers would constitute a bad job.

Rjd2

Gbear wrote: »

I probably could've ended my post with the statement "BUT... if it works..."

I'm certainly all in favour of all the baddies turning on each other, but it is dangerous to perceive this moment as a case of bad people inflicting their badness on society, rather than the systemic issue that has allowed it to take place, and on a more petty level, it would be sickening to see the likes of George Will, Rex Tillerson, David Frum or whatnot, emerge out the far side with their reputations laundered.
.

I've decided best to ignore all those never Trumpers making out like bandits in these times. I have told people in my own circle I don't want to see Project Lincoln videos because pretty much everyone involved in them has laid the groundwork for Trump and have shown little remorse. They will be on the Hailey bandwagon in a few years of treating Palestine like ****, and declaring undying love for trickle down economics.

Frum is the worst of them, played a huge role in selling the Iraq war, shown little remorse and was on TV baiting Bernie supporters calling them losers a few months ago.

Its deeply uncomfortable how much control these people and Jennifer Rubin wield over the party, hopefully with the likes of AOC and her crew unseating old and useless corporate Dems the party will move leftward enough these people will run for the hills. Its possible as unsurprisingly they all hated Bernie because he had the nerve to discuss the gross inequality in America.

sid waddell

Ghislaine Maxwell has been arrested by the FBI and will be charged with four counts relating to the sexual abuse of minors and two counts of perjury.

Press conference to be held by SDNY at 5pm our time.

I can't help thinking that this explains Barr's sacking of SDNY US Attorney Geoffrey Berman.