Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

If Trump loses, I expect Deutsche Bank may foreclose on all his debts, call them all in as it has apparently decided [according to U.S market trading media sources] to pull the plug on connections to him. I don't know how such a move would affect his credibility or any willingness the bank has to keep personal banking details private and secure any longer. Could the bank ask the U.S courts for orders to seize Trump properties in lieu of repayment of the loans he owes it?

I've been wondering for months now on what would happen if a European or other continental media source was to get possession of and publish his Deutsche Bank records by way of a "leak" from interested parties and whether U.S media sources would re-publish such credible material they found on the WWW.

BonnieSituation

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’d say bush jr would say you’re wrong and thanks for making me not look like a complete joke. Also 2004 he had to wait until the next day. As Tom brockaw said twenty years ago tonight, the law says the election must take place on the first Tuesday in November, it says nothing about having to know the result late on the first Tuesday or on the first Wednesday of November.

It actually says "the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November" which is to ensure it can never fall on November 1st.

This was to enable merchants to go vote as they usually would have done month-end on the first of the month.

Stallingrad

I did my best to ignore the polling this time, so am not as disappointed as I could be. Still all to play for but disheartening that after everything, it is still this close.

Detritus70

Stallingrad wrote: »

I did my best to ignore the polling this time, so am not as disappointed as I could be. Still all to play for but disheartening that after everything, it is still this close.

I guess a lot of Americans appreciate a tough stance against immigrants, the world in general (America First!), packing the suppreme court with ultra conservative party hacks, displaying a hostile attitude against lefties, the LGBTQ scene, Mexicans, poor people, "brown" people, Muslims, science, getting rid of environmental legislation and fostering a climate where armed right-wing extremists are more than welcome to roam the streets.
We have seen the sometimes extreme reaction against things like restrictions due to Covid and plots to kidnap and murder democrats and it leads me to think that a lot of people either don't care if the President is completely nuts or specifically welcome it, because they get to live out their Mad Max fantasy.
I dare say that, due to the hollowing out and undermining of education and social services, a lot more people will join this crazy tribe and even if Biden gets elected, this won't get any better.

one armed dwarf

I did see on a CNN exit poll that concerns over the economy trumped (lol) concerns over Covid, I at least expected those to be about equal.

'Can't let the cure be worse than the disease' clearly a message that landed with some folk it seems WRT lockdowns/restrictions

aloyisious

If Trump does get legal on the voting issue again with the USSC, I'll wait and see if the USSC judges have the spirit to ask his team there about his comments that the USSC was part of the electoral vote fraud he alleges is being carried out, maybe even invite him to appear before them to substantiate his claim. He was and is a representative of the GOP while making the claim about the USSC being a part of said alleged electoral fraud.

transylman

rosser44 wrote: »

Winning the Senate is probably more important for the Dems than the presidency, the senate is needed in order to close up the loopholes that let McConnell ride roughshod over the country for the last 4 years

No, top priority was always to get rid of Trump. As evidenced by his declaration of victory this morning and call to stop counting votes, he is a truly awful human being with no business running the most powerful country in the world. I have no problem with a weak Biden government for the next few years being followed by a sane republican president.
Trump is a corruption that would have destroyed America.

amandstu

transylman wrote: »

No, top priority was always to get rid of Trump. As evidenced by his declaration of victory this morning and call to stop counting votes, he is a truly awful human being with no business running the most powerful country in the world. I have no problem with a weak Biden government for the next few years being followed by a sane republican president.

Trump is a corruption that would have destroyed America.

If he gets in ,do you think this will happen ?

Or is he /will he be revealing the true venial character of its (and probably our) electorate?

It takes two to tango and his supporters seem to me to be willing dupes.

banie01

I've been watching the count all night/day. Last night with a growing sense of impending doom but this afternoon it really does look like the mail in votes in MI, WI and other states are giving Joe the push towards 270.

Trump's claim demand last night to stop counts is deranged, as was his threat of the Supreme Court.
Imagine the man elected president not understanding the hierarchy of courts!

The media, the FCC and the Supreme's court striking down of the doctrine of fairness have all played a huge part in the current divided and partisan state of the US.
The tendency of news networks to present issues framed solely in the paradigm of left v right and from their own perspective is infuriating.
If someone only watches Fox news, Biden is a reincarnation of Lenin.
If someone only watches MSNBC, Trump is the Anti-christ.

There needs to be a serious root and branch review of the "traditional" media, and the big social media channels need to work harder to prevent the same issue.
Too many people are obtaining their news via single and inherently biased sources. Both MSM and online, where is the critical thought?
It leads to an echo chamber that kills discourse and consensus.

aloyisious

I see that Nevada State citizens were not only voting in the presidential election yesterday, they were also voting to repeal a ban on same-sex marriage from the state constitution [and did so] which leads me to wonder whether the emergency order Trump & Co sought from the state courts to block the count in Nevada was solely to prevent Biden from getting votes there or whether his V/P was angling for a different fish?

amandstu

banie01 wrote: »

I've been watching the count all night/day. Last night with a growing sense of impending doom but this afternoon it really does look like the mail in votes in MI, WI and other states are giving Joe the push towards 270.

.

Where are you hearing that?Not from the Biden campaign team,I hope.

abff

Is anyone watching Prime Time? The guy from the Republican Party is not exactly the most gifted orator.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It actually says "the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November" which is to ensure it can never fall on November 1st.

This was to enable merchants to go vote as they usually would have done month-end on the first of the month.

Well okay it seems you and Tom brockaw aren’t that far apart BS. But I appreciate the clarification.

banie01

amandstu wrote: »

Where are you hearing that?Not from the Biden campaign team,I hope.

A mix of CNN, Politico and the state's webpages where they lay out the count process and source of votes.
Funny enough, I was quite right in my call.

amandstu

banie01 wrote: »

A mix of CNN, Politico and the state's webpages where they lay out the count process and source of votes.
Funny enough, I was quite right in my call.

It is looking better now. But I can see why Seigneur Trump could be confused.

Quite a few variables and a tight race overall.

aloyisious

I'm not quite sure of the chances that the USSC will let Trump join the case [coming] before it in respect of the 3rd day after election-day receipt & recognition of ballots papers as the USSC had, by way of no overall rebuttal of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision, had also decided that the process was valid in law in that state. I suspect he may be hoping that if he's let join the case, his latest addition to the USSC will vote with the other 8 USSC judges on the case and be the extra vote [5/4] he need's to disenfranchise the Pennsylvanian voters who posted in their ballot papers. Hopefully his attempt is seen for what it is, disenfranchisement and not enfranchisement. The one good thing about Pennsylvania is the three person commission overseeing the vote processing there being a cross-party team which undercuts his allegation of fraud and late voting there.

His attempt at disenfranchising the Michigan voters as well is akin to pure desperation - if I can't have their vote, no one can. Hopefully it will be treated with due process and tossed out as an invalid attempt to destroy voters rights.

aloyisious

Watching Biden's campaign events on TV, I like what I think is a deliberate strategy of his to neuter Trump's supposed army of volunteers by ending his speeches with God Bless Our Troops, silently reminding ex-service personnel in militia groups that he and his family had served as they had, switching on their loyalty to the US and away from Trump. Least ways I hope that's what's intended and is successful.

Water John

aloyisious wrote: »

Watching Biden's campaign events on TV, I like what I think is a deliberate strategy of his to neuter Trump's supposed army of volunteers by ending his speeches with God Bless Our Troops, silently reminding ex-service personnel in militia groups that he and his family had served as they had, switching on their loyalty to the US and away from Trump. Least ways I hope that's what's intended and is successful.

It also recognises their is only one, law and order in the country.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

How?

There's a fairly long list of things and tbh, if you need those things pointed out to you after everything he's done I'm not sure there's any point even doing that.

28064212

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

There's a fairly long list of things and tbh, if you need those things pointed out to you after everything he's done I'm not sure there's any point even doing that.

Your claim isn't really backed up by the facts though. Trump has already gotten 5.5 million more votes than 2016, and the count isn't even finished yet. It's unlikely his actions since he was elected turned off more than a tiny percentage of his 2016 supporters (which is a sad indictment of them).

Biden is on course to win because he got out the vote that Clinton didn't, not because Trump lost his own supporters

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

28064212 wrote: »

Your claim isn't really backed up by the facts though. Trump has already gotten 5.5 million more votes than 2016, and the count isn't even finished yet. It's unlikely his actions since he was elected turned off more than a tiny percentage of his 2016 supporters (which is a sad indictment of them).

Biden is on course to win because he got out the vote that Clinton didn't, not because Trump lost his own supporters

But you are making the assumptioin that everyone that voted for Trump in 2016 voted for Trump in 2020 - that is absolutely not true. He has lost support, but he has also picked up support too. The fact that he has lost support has resulted in him losing this election. Had he held on to his support he had in 2016, along with the new supporters he's gained, then he would have won this election handily.

Quin_Dub

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

But you are making the assumptioin that everyone that voted for Trump in 2016 voted for Trump in 2020 - that is absolutely not true. He has lost support, but he has also picked up support too. The fact that he has lost support has resulted in him losing this election. Had he held on to his support he had in 2016, along with the new supporters he's gained, then he would have won this election handily.

There's a little bit of that, but the big driver this time around is the number of people who voted this year that did not vote last time , both in terms of "newly qualified" voters if you like and those that sat it out last time.

A big chunk of Democrat voters either sat it out or went 3rd party last time.

3rd party accounted for 5%+ of the vote last time , they will be ~1.5% this time.

Net-Net - Trump still has huge appeal outside the urban/suburban areas and he and his type of political behaviour isn't going away soon.

Both Parties need to solve their issues in the Urban/Rural Areas.

Democrats need a story that resonates with Rural dwellers if they want to win the Senate and The GOP need to build a story that resonates with Urban dwellers if they want to take back the house or have a shot at a clear National vote victory.

As it stands right now , no GOP candidate will ever win the popular vote , but they may continue to win from time to time via the EC.

Both parties have a lot of work to do to get more voters.

amandstu

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There's a little bit of that, but the big driver this time around is the number of people who voted this year that did not vote last time , both in terms of "newly qualified" voters if you like and those that sat it out last time.

A big chunk of Democrat voters either sat it out or went 3rd party last time.

3rd party accounted for 5%+ of the vote last time , they will be ~1.5% this time.

Net-Net - Trump still has huge appeal outside the urban/suburban areas and he and his type of political behaviour isn't going away soon.

Both Parties need to solve their issues in the Urban/Rural Areas.

Democrats need a story that resonates with Rural dwellers if they want to win the Senate and The GOP need to build a story that resonates with Urban dwellers if they want to take back the house or have a shot at a clear National vote victory.

As it stands right now , no GOP candidate will ever win the popular vote , but they may continue to win from time to time via the EC.

Both parties have a lot of work to do to get more voters.

Are urban populations the electorate of the future?

To live sustainably we may have to adopt an urban lifestyle as it is less wasteful on resources.

Are rural attitudes on the way out in terms of the political influence they are likely to wield in the medium term future?

Quin_Dub

amandstu wrote: »

Are urban populations the electorate of the future?

To live sustainably we may have to adopt an urban lifestyle as it is less wasteful on resources.

Are rural attitudes on the way out in terms of the political influence they are likely to wield in the medium term future?

In most countries and the US House of Congress - Yes.

But in the US Senate and POTUS elections ,not really.

The Rural States will continue to have an outsized influence on results given the way their influence is weighted.

rossie1977

I am baffled by how a rich New Yorker that's not religious is so popular in rural conservative areas of the US though..what's the appeal?

To answer above question just look at Texas. Beto and Biden both won the urban areas there yet didn't carry the state. Rural Florida won Trump that state, rural Pennsylvania is keeping Trump close there.

banie01

amandstu wrote: »

Are urban populations the electorate of the future?

To live sustainably we may have to adopt an urban lifestyle as it is less wasteful on resources.

Are rural attitudes on the way out in terms of the political influence they are likely to wield in the medium term future?

I think an important part of whats happening in the US, is that the urban/rural divide is also becoming much more a class issue.

I heard Chris Cuomo recently refer to not buying into the whole Blue v Red notion of US politics. That the electorate have moved beyond that and it is now very much a case of haves and haven't.

It struck a chord with me as when one looks at Trump's and the GOPs vote in this election, it really is a matter of Turkeys voting for xmas.

No stimulus or enhanced financial aid package for those left unemployed by the pandemic since June!
Because no senate approval of bills, yet that same senate could confirm many judges at all levels of the federal court system?

There is a reckoning to be had with how the politicians chose to leave their constituents destitute and it really should have been hammered home by the Biden campaign.

Trump had no issues with telling Miami-Dade Latinos that a vote for Biden was a return to the socialism they ran from.
An outright lie, that won his campaign Florida.

I hope that Biden can at least build some consensus and cross-aisle cooperation.
Because without a move to a less divisive rhetoric, all that is happening is a delay on implosion rather than a repair to society IMO.

ancapailldorcha

rossie1977 wrote: »

I am baffled by how a rich New Yorker that's not religious is so popular in rural conservative areas of the US though..what's the appeal?

It's the polarised nature of the US twinned with the fact that they can live out their fantasy of "owning the libs" vicariously through him. His divorces, his scams and his adulterous lifestyle mean nothing to them as long as he triggers people they dislike.

listermint

rossie1977 wrote: »

I am baffled by how a rich New Yorker that's not religious is so popular in rural conservative areas of the US though..what's the appeal?

Millions poured into social media ads telling them that the other guy is a communist. That he's going to take away your car and tax your windows on your house and that he will introduce socialism and Venezuela to the United States.

None of it positive electioneering not want trump can do for you just what the other bad guy will do 'to' you.


Peddling fear into people's phones.