Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

There seems to be a possible game-changer going on in the U.S with a reported change in tack by Rupert Murdoch owned conservative media outlets, New York Post, Wall St Journal and Fox News with a message to Trump to preserve his "Legacy" by showing grace in defeat. Laura Ingraham made a statement advising him, quote: to accept defeat if and when that does happen with grace and composure; unquote. The statement is more fully given amongst the contents of AN ARTICLE FROM another media outlet.

theguardian.com - rupert-murdoch-owned-us-outlets-turn-on-trump-urging-him-to-concede-with-grace.

I saw it reported first in the Irish Times.

Brussels Sprout

check_six wrote: »

I'd be curious to see how a 2024 run would work for Trump as an independent. It appears that 40%+ of the US electorate would vote for literally anyone as long as they have the Republican letter R beside their name. I'd guess it's much the same on the Democrat side too. (Rock solid blind party affiliation is my only hope for the sanity of the US after this latest election).

I don't see how him running third party could be anything but a boon for the Democrats. He'd split the conservative vote with the Republican party and potentially open up loads of red states for the Democrats to come through the middle and win with 39-49% of the vote*.

Really though there is no need for him to run third party. He can just run in the Republican primary again. His base is the majority of that party. Even if it is not in 4 years you only need a plurality to win a primary unless the rest of the party gets behind a single other candidate. Trump is going to be a headache for the Republicans for sure.




*Potential states based on current Dem vote %:

• North Carolina - 48.7%
• Florida - 47.9%
• Texas - 46.4 %
• Ohio - 45.2%
• Iowa - 45%
• South Carolina - 43.5%
• Kansas - 41.3%
• Missouri - 41.3%
• Indiana - 41%
• Montana - 40.6%
• Louisiana - 39.8%
• Nebraska (statewide) - 39.3%

banie01

aloyisious wrote: »

There seems to be a possible game-changer going on in the U.S with a reported change in tack by Rupert Murdoch owned conservative media outlets, New York Post, Wall St Journal and Fox News with a message to Trump to preserve his "Legacy" by showing grace in defeat. Laura Ingraham made a statement advising him, quote: to accept defeat if and when that does happen with grace and composure; unquote. The statement is more fully given amongst the contents of the following link from another media outlet.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/07/rupert-murdoch-owned-us-outlets-turn-on-trump-urging-him-to-concede-with-grace.

I saw it reported first in the Irish Times.

Let's be honest, there really won't be much of a legacy other than hats, flags and a sense of foreboding that the next wannabe US autocrat will be far smarter, more subtle and less jaw droppingly politically niave.

Murdoch is facing serious issues in Australia with the likelihood of a royal commission.
The American right and Trumpist's are being shown to be brittle and emotionally fragile.
If Trump doesn't actually make at least a show of decorum?
There are some of his support who will likely take extreme action. There is a swathe of Trumpist's convinced he is infallible and that it "must" be fraud.
An example of that?
It's not Den's undertaking these actions.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-bomb-threat-fashion-district-convention-center-20201106.html
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/2-heavily-armed-men-found-outside-pennsylvania-convention-center-taken-into-custody-as-police-investigate-threat-of-attack/

aloyisious

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

In all the excitement with election there was a good interview on an economist podcast on Spotify with lady in charge of the Lincoln project, they do not find democrats palatable but my God the hatred for Trump and what he made of republican party is strong.

I said it before but I think republican party would split into two, the "real" republicans who would very a long list of republicans Trump rode over and Trump's America First neo fascist party.

While Trump's Base is vocal I do not think think they compromise majority of those 70million who got Trump to 2nd largest ever vote.

Biden really needs to stick to center and reach out to Latino and white (and incredibly enough some Black) voters that didn't vote for him. Otherwise we endup with Trump in 4 years, or his spawn or someone potentially using same tactics but is somehow even more evil and not as thick.

Trump is going to spend next two months slashing and burning everything in hope that Biden inherits an even bigger basket case of a country.

If Trump does a slash and burn of the senior ranks of the public service just to harm the regrowth of the U.S after he's gone, Biden should rehire those fired who have provided good and worthwhile service to the state. It'd be nice if the GOP hierarchy came aboard with such a plan as the public service serves all, not one.

Quin_Dub

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump splitting the Republicans (as per my previous post higher up) would be great for democrats but don't forget the only thing uniting democrats is Biden's skill and their collective hatred for Trump and Trumpism.

Leftwing parties do have a tendency to self infight over silly purity concerns

There should really be 4-6 parties in USA to represent everyone but that's impossible without pr voting system like Ireland.

Indeed - The one thing the Democrats cannot do , is see this result as a victory for their party & policies.

It isn't , it's a loss for Trump, that's it.

They need to take a very deep look at themselves and more importantly the voters that rejected them and work out how to close the yawning gaps that exist between them , otherwise they'll get cleaned out in the mid-terms and the GOP will take back the WH in 4 years time.

aloyisious

banie01 wrote: »

Let's be honest, there really won't be much of a legacy other than hats, flags and a sense of foreboding that the next wannabe US autocrat will be far smarter, more subtle and less jaw droppingly politically niave.

Murdoch is facing serious issues in Australia with the likelihood of a royal commission.
The American right and Trumpist's are being shown to be brittle and emotionally fragile.
If Trump doesn't actually make at least a show of decorum?
There are some of his support who will likely take extreme action. There is a swathe of Trumpist's convinced he is infallible and that it "must" be fraud.
An example of that?
It's not Den's undertaking these actions.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-bomb-threat-fashion-district-convention-center-20201106.html
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/06/2-heavily-armed-men-found-outside-pennsylvania-convention-center-taken-into-custody-as-police-investigate-threat-of-attack/

Re Trump version 2 in 2024, I see Pence being that person, with an eminence grise support behind him. I'll be upfront now. I've had moments watching the TV screen and Trump's and Giuliani's antics over the past few days which would put the quote from the Biden campaign Andy in the shade when it came to an imagined eviction scenario. Cushioning wouldn't apply. As for Rudy, disbarment from practice would be the start point. Re the Lincoln Project people in the GOP, it's probable that they will have come off worst in the GOP itself after the election results come in and positions within Washington grace and favour jobs are handed out.

check_six

How would this election have concluded if the counter-Trump candidate had been as gobby and as uncouth as Trump? Can you imagine the chaos?

Quin_Dub

check_six wrote: »

How would this election have concluded if the counter-Trump candidate had been as gobby and as uncouth as Trump? Can you imagine the chaos?

Trump would have won at a canter.

Democratic party voters are far more likely to reject a candidate they don't "like" and just sit the election out if the candidate doesn't pass their personal "purity test".

GOP voters vote party first , candidate a very very distant second.

Capt'n Midnight

aloyisious wrote: »

There seems to be a possible game-changer going on in the U.S with a reported change in tack by Rupert Murdoch owned conservative media outlets, New York Post, Wall St Journal and Fox News with a message to Trump to preserve his "Legacy" by showing grace in defeat.

Would this be distraction or damage limitation ?

Half a million Aussies have petitioned for a Royal Commission to investigate media outlets. Unlikely to happen in the US , as the new management will still be corporate friendly, but who knows ?

Record-breaking Australian petition calls for inquiry into Rupert Murdoch’s media monopolies

“This power is routinely used to attack opponents in business and politics by blending editorial opinion with news reporting. Australians who hold contrary views have felt intimidated into silence. These facts chill free speech and undermine public debate.”

20Cent

Matt Getz who wore a gas mask into the senate to mock people taking precautions over Covid19 has reportedly gotten it now.

Capt'n Midnight

check_six wrote: »

How would this election have concluded if the counter-Trump candidate had been as gobby and as uncouth as Trump? Can you imagine the chaos?

At the last election any other viable candidate including an Inanimate Carbon Rod would likely have beaten Hillary or Trump

All they had to do was choose a candidate that wouldn't antagonise your side to stay home or the other side to vote against them.

Labour didn't learn that lesson and Corbyn lost two general elections. To make it worse both times he got his party to vote to have those elections.

aloyisious

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Would this be distraction or damage limitation ?

Half a million Aussies have petitioned for a Royal Commission to investigate media outlets. Unlikely to happen in the US , as the new management will still be corporate friendly, but who knows ?

Record-breaking Australian petition calls for inquiry into Rupert Murdoch’s media monopolies

It's probably a damage-limitation action by Murdoch Corp to block any score-settling by people he's attacked coming into positions of power, like them sitting on the version of what Trump has/had in mind for the media "platforms" currently before Senate committees.

Itssoeasy

20Cent wrote: »

Matt Getz who wore a gas mask into the senate to mock people taking precautions over Covid19 has reportedly gotten it now.

Well karma's a bitch with a long memory as they say.

AMKC

Delighted for Joe Biden. Third time lucky. At last America gets the President that they the people voted for. It's the President that America needs now someone to bring them altogether, to heal and unit as the United States of America.
AMKC is online now Report Post

Jack1985

It's fantastic to see this man's presidency ripped from him. He has treated the populous of the US as a whole with distain and viewed the presidency as something for HIM.

It's over, it's done - Legacy? Single handedly presided over the worst volume in deaths in the United States since WWII on its home turf and actively engaged in conspiracy’s that killed many more American's than ever should have. He actively exploited racial divide to heat up a base and partook in it.

The man is disgusting he has never held credibility, a liar and racist to his core.

The challenge for Biden is immense, Health and COVID containment, the economy and ultimately a divide Trump promoted and the GOP cheerleaded. I pray, in the Senate run-off's Dem's take control, they have the House and the Presidency.

This brought a serious smile to my face.

https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1325146638835306502?s=20

uncleoswald

I had really hoped for a decisive victory on election night, for a clear message of rejection sent to Trump by the voters. I feared that it would be a long drawn out process that would leave him feeling vindicated no matter what.

But now I think about it this is even sweeter. The image Trump trying to process the fact that he's lost. Of advisers and yes men around him slowly distancing themselves from him while those who are unable to distance themselves, like his children, not knowing how to break it to him. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

Delighted for Joe Biden. Third time lucky. At last America gets the President that they the people voted for. It's the President that America needs now someone to bring them altogether, to heal and unit as the United States of America.
AMKC is online now Report Post

Beneficiary of a protest vote to be fair. Some one once said, the evil of two lessers.

abff

uncleoswald wrote: »

I had really hoped for a decisive victory on election night, for a clear message of rejection sent to Trump by the voters. I feared that it would be a long drawn out process that would leave him feeling vindicated no matter what.

But now I think about it this is even sweeter. The image Trump trying to process the fact that he's lost. Of advisers and yes men around him slowly distancing themselves from him while those who are unable to distance themselves, like his children, not knowing how to break it to him. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

It’s very hard not to take a certain amount of vindictive pleasure in the idea of Trump suffering. All of us who have suffered through the last four years of vindictive bombastic sh*te from that miserable excuse for a human being can hardly be blamed for feeling that way.

But we must not lose sight of the key objective. The most important thing is that he is no longer in a position to impose his will on the American people (and, consequently on a large proportion of the world’s population) and that by far overrides all other considerations by a factor of several millions.

I’m not totally convinced that we have yet reached that point, but I look forward to heaving a giant sign of relief when we eventually get there.

aloyisious

abff wrote: »

But we must not lose sight of the key objective. The most important thing is that he is no longer in a position to impose his will on the American people (and, consequently on a large proportion of the world’s population) and that by far overrides all other considerations by a factor of several millions.

I’m not totally convinced that we have yet reached that point, but I look forward to heaving a giant sign of relief when we eventually get there.

Ditto. IMO, it's very achievable with two things done to get it over the goal-line. One is a deal between past partners in Congress [Biden & McConnell] to work together bi-partisan style as they did in pre-Trump times. The second is for the top branches of both civil and military to make it clear, via McConnell, to A.G Barr and SecDef Esper that they will ignore any crazy instructions from Trump or his Admin in these dying days of his admin to make any moves against the public. No Lafayette Square type incidents, KSU is still in my memory. Two armed gents showed up at the count centre in Pennsylvania yesterday following on from the presidential comments about vote fraud involving the receipt of mailed-in ballot papers.

Stallingrad

Mission accomplished, time to unfollow this thread for my general mental health and well being.

This thread has been one of the greatest boards.ie moments, with a quality of discourse throughout that has been outstanding. Thank you to all the contributers for your insight. A special mention to the moderators who have worked so hard to maintain the quality of discussion (I received a warning or two along the way!), it must have been a full time job. Much appreciated.

PropJoe10

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

Excellent result.
IMO Trump supporters are irredeemable but it doesn't matter because Biden will drag America back to dignity kicking and screaming.

if the last 4 years has proved anything, it's the importance of the occupant of the office of POTUS just having some basic personal dignity. We took that for granted before. Never again.

CelticRambler

Seeing the scenes of riotous jubilation in the streets of America yesterday, I couldn't help but think back to what we saw when the Berlin Wall came down, or in those first hopeful days of the Arab Spring. And then I thought: what a fitting end to the Trump Era - that the termination of his presidency would be fêted in the same way as the fall of Soviet Communism and Arab Dictatorship.

Headshot

CNN are reporting the following are likely legal reckonings for Trump come January 20th 2021

multiple investigations looking into possible fraud in his financial business dealing as a private citizen

Defamation lawsuits by women who have alleged he assaulted them

Allegations he corrupted the presidency for his personal profits

Decade-long civil tax audit conducted by the IRS

Our Trump is going to have a busy 2021 and creditors are going to come a calling as well

Leinster90

Does anyone think that Trump could run for the Senate in Georgia in a bid to get back into politics and make himself Senate leader to stick it to Biden?

I think the only thing better then watching Trump lose an election, would be to watch him lose another.

Faugheen

Leinster90 wrote: »

Does anyone think that Trump could run for the Senate in Georgia in a bid to get back into politics and make himself Senate leader to stick it to Biden?

I think the only thing better then watching Trump lose an election, would be to watch him lose another.

Well, no because he actually cant.

pixelburp

Trump won't run for office again. If the rumours are true he didn't even want to win the first time around. The presidency has exposed his person and business interests to a degree he'd scarcely want to repeat; more likely is he dovetails back into a professional hurler on the ditch, taking up a cosy slot on Fox to feed the Trumpists left hungry for more Boomer Rage. And that's assuming he's not trapped in legal limbo for the next 10 years

Water John

He'll take up a position to the right of Fox. He's really bitter with them, esp for declaring AZ for Biden. Very hard right TV station, Trump News.

pixelburp

Water John wrote: »

He'll take up a position to the right of Fox. He's really bitter with them, esp for declaring AZ for Biden. Very hard right TV station, Trump News.

True enough, swap Fox then for OANN in my spitballing and there's Trumps likely future. Can't see him getting too many invites as a guest speaker, despite Stephen Miller's assertion of gifted oratory

PropJoe10

Water John wrote: »

He'll take up a position to the right of Fox. He's really bitter with them, esp for declaring AZ for Biden. Very hard right TV station, Trump News.

Yup. I read somewhere that he's already invested in either OANN, or a variation of that. Hard right-wing TV is about to become his new home. He'll love it, he'll be able to spew his conspiracy theories and racism to his heart's content.