Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Dillonb3

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The rage at Fox News abandoning Trump is palpable.

Meanwhile the trickle of Republicans coming out to recognise the Biden victory continues. At some stage, there will be enough of a critical mass of Republicans there that they will have no choice but to make Donald give up, or else cut him loose. Trump of course is showing no signs of standing down. I think it's going to get ugly soon.

He's retweeting loads of random accounts criticizing fox and saying OANN and Newsmax are great alternatives. Amazing this is what he prioritizes instead of the issues plaguing the country

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

He doesn't bother reading them anyway by all accounts, I don't see that changing.

It's not that he is going to read them, but people know he gets them will he be willing to 'sell' them to help himself?

I doubt he cares whats in them.

I doubt he would, I have to believe that deep down he actually has a care for his country, but his past actions (like telling the Russians about the Israeli intelligence) does not bode well.

8mv

Dillonb3 wrote: »

He's retweeting loads of random accounts criticizing fox and saying OANN and Newsmax are great alternatives. Amazing this is what he prioritizes instead of the issues plaguing the country

I wonder is he trying to engineer a situation where, assuming any challenges to the election count fail, there will be no other option than to invoke the 25th to remove him, leaving Pence in position to issue a broad pardon for any potential federal crimes and maybe he could use the fact that the 25th was used to remove him from office to avoid possible state or civil cases - unfit to stand trial?

aloyisious

Is it possible that Trump's just waiting to declare a victory of sorts before conceding to Biden if the U.S.S.C declares the A.C.A unconstitutional as it no longer includes the insurance mandate? If the U.S.S.C ruled that the A.C.A is constitutional without the mandate being part of the package as originally designed, I imagine his tweeting against the judges would be huge.

Timberrrrrrrr

8mv wrote: »

I wonder is he trying to engineer a situation where, assuming any challenges to the election count fail, there will be no other option than to invoke the 25th to remove him, leaving Pence in position to issue a broad pardon for any potential federal crimes and maybe he could use the fact that the 25th was used to remove him from office to avoid possible state or civil cases - unfit to stand trial?

His ego would never allow that.

He spent months claiming iden had cognitive issues, to then try to get off by admitting he is mentally impaired enough to not stand trial would be an alien concept to him. Hell he would probably insist on defending himself instead of having lawyers.

looksee

Why would he concede when he can raise money to pay for recounts - oh, and pay off election debt at the same time.

BonnieSituation

Leroy42 wrote: »

It's not that he is going to read them, but people know he gets them will he be willing to 'sell' them to help himself?

I doubt he cares whats in them.

I doubt he would, I have to believe that deep down he actually has a care for his country, but his past actions (like telling the Russians about the Israeli intelligence) does not bode well.

The intelligence agencies can surely withhold them. He has no Constitutional role after midday on 20/01/2021. It's merely convention that he would get them.

aloyisious

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

His ego would never allow that.

He spent months claiming iden had cognitive issues, to then try to get off by admitting he is mentally impaired enough to not stand trial would be an alien concept to him. Hell he would probably insist on defending himself instead of having lawyers.

Besides of which it would be an admission [though not in his eyes] that the president who could do no wrong had actually committed a federal criminal offence needing a pardon from his successor.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The intelligence agencies can surely withhold them. He has no Constitutional role after midday on 20/01/2021. It's merely convention that he would get them.

They probably will block them post election if it’s clear he’s regaling guests at in Florida with the secrets and methods of the US. I worry what he knows from the last four years.

check_six

Itssoeasy wrote: »

They probably will block them post election if it’s clear he’s regaling guests at in Florida with the secrets and methods of the US. I worry what he knows from the last four years.

They should have blocked any sensitive information going to him years ago. Anything he could recall was just be blurted out at various summits to make him seem like the big man. Remember the secret Putin meetings?

He's always been a massive security risk.

Itssoeasy

check_six wrote: »

They should have blocked any sensitive information going to him years ago. Anything he could recall was just be blurted out at various summits to make him seem like the big man. Remember the secret Putin meetings?

Well given he was the president they couldn’t because as bad at doing the job as he is, he’s still the president and the person in the office needs to have the best info. There was no American official in that meeting so the Americans have no earthly idea what he he said or agreed to with putin. There was a translator who’s notes were taken by trump. The Biden administration will have fun going through that server finding out what stupid things he said to others.

Quin_Dub

looksee wrote: »

A opinion writer on MSNBC is suggesting that Trump is an inevitable pick for 2024 because he has sorted out the top end of the GOP so that syncophants are running the show, and he has a huge following to build on. Not convinced, but its an alarming thought.

If he "gets away clean" from the next 18 months or so of Criminal and Civil investigations he absolutely will try again in 2024.

However , if he's bankrupt and/or in jail then his chance greatly reduce.

Professor Moriarty

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If he "gets away clean" from the next 18 months or so of Criminal and Civil investigations he absolutely will try again in 2024.

However , if he's bankrupt and/or in jail then his chance greatly reduce.

He is facing nine lawsuits in New York alone. These will proceed once he leaves office.

Westernworld.

check_six wrote: »

They should have blocked any sensitive information going to him years ago. Anything he could recall was just be blurted out at various summits to make him seem like the big man. Remember the secret Putin meetings?

He's always been a massive security risk.

He'll surely be an even bigger one now going forward, especially with his bruised ego.

No telling who or what he might compromise

Mr.Nice Guy

Can't Trump pardon himself and his friends? That plays right into the witchhunt narrative he's trying to create. 'Your President can't let patriots become the victim of a witchhunt' etc.

I think he'll go but I don't think he'll concede. I don't think he'll even go to the inauguration. I wouldn't put it past him to hold a rally on the same day and try to position himself as 'the real President'.

Westernworld.

I wouldn't out it past him to try to make himself some sort of Alternative POTUS

I can't see him letting go of his fanbase

aloyisious

I'll toss this over to the U.S voters in the debate as they might have more true input into the facts behind the emerging reports involving Georgia's electoral system: It seems the DHS stated that Georgia's computerized electoral system was the most secure used in the election. The manager of Georgia's electoral system stated that there was an audit going on of the ballots [if I got him correct] but I missed the question put to him which elicited that answer.

Ref The DHS, it's been reported by CNN two DHS senior staffers were forced to resign by the White House. One was in charge cybersecurity and of securing the election from outside interference, the other one in charge of international affairs. This link on the report is from FoxNews: https://keyt.com/politics/2020/11/12/two-top-homeland-security-officials-forced-to-resign-by-white-house/

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He is facing nine lawsuits in New York alone. These will proceed once he leaves office.

He got mentioned in the Scottish parliament today regarding tax investigation or the possibility of one.

Once he loses his immunity from prosecution I expect he could spend years in courts all around the world.

aloyisious

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Can't Trump pardon himself and his friends? That plays right into the witchhunt narrative he's trying to create. 'Your President can't let patriots become the victim of a witchhunt' etc.

IMO, the courts couldn't allow any claim of a person being able to issue a pardon for him/her-self to have any standing in law or it would open the gates to any person charged in court the privilege of telling the judge "I find myself not guilty, I'm off, Bye".

Leroy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

If he "gets away clean" from the next 18 months or so of Criminal and Civil investigations he absolutely will try again in 2024.

However , if he's bankrupt and/or in jail then his chance greatly reduce.

Its just another classic distraction technique. He lost 2020, dug himself a hole with the fraud line, now needs a way out that looks like he still relevant.

He has the job for 4 years, 77m+ people decided he wasn't good enough.

So talk of 2024 8s just to move the conversation away from him having lost. Like a health care plan, middle income tax cut, vaccine, etc, everything with Trump is always going to happen. Just you wait. It means he avoids taking any responsibility for what has happened and cannot be questioned as he can't be wrong.

He has little chance of running in 2024. He was the one that ran on everyone being losers, and now he is one.

ECO_Mental

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Can't Trump pardon himself and his friends? That plays right into the witchhunt narrative he's trying to create. 'Your President can't let patriots become the victim of a witchhunt' etc.

'.

By giving himself a Pardon you must plead guilty to something first. A Pardon is for a crime you committed so this might be difficult for his ego. Although saying that Ford gave a Pardon to Nixon for all crimes committed in office I think..

Quin_Dub

ECO_Mental wrote: »

By giving himself a Pardon you must plead guilty to something first. A Pardon is for a crime you committed so this might be difficult for his ego. Although saying that Ford gave a Pardon to Nixon for all crimes committed in office I think..

He doesn't have to admit anything - as you say , the Nixon pardon covered anything he "may have done" during his time in office.

Legal experts are most definitely undecided on whether he can pardon himself - It would seem outrageous to suggest that he could though.

But - If he gives himself a pardon, he can no longer refuse to cooperate with an other investigations and may then leave himself open to being forced to reveal details that could hurt him in Civil cases or State level cases.

A Pardon doesn't stop him getting sued a la E Jean Carroll for example

robinph

A pardon for Trump Sr also doesn't stop the rest of his family or any of the companies being dealt with for various things.

Now he probably doesn't care about his family, and a company going bust isn't going to bother him too much as he's well used to that. He'll lose any of the ways he's been laundering money through those companies though and without the golf clubs and hotels he can't charge the security personnel for following him around and extract money from the country that way.

ArmaniJeanss

If he 'knows stuff' (alien contact, Kompromat on various western leaders, Lee Harvey Oswald, undisclosed assassination plots) then it gets interesting.
Either you have to keep him sweet (drop both state and federal charges in return for silence) or you have to consider the absolute heaviest of sticks.

Post Presidency secrecy has hitherto been assumed on the grounds that the ex-President is a decent person who cares about his legacy, has generally bought into the American concept, and understands the correct way for ex-politicians to behave. For the first time there's a loose cannon.

Westernworld.

I expect to see a lot of him on TV

Surely he will try to monetize his fanbase too, I mean that support must be worth money to him in lots of ways

Gbear

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If he 'knows stuff' (alien contact, Kompromat on various western leaders, Lee Harvey Oswald, undisclosed assassination plots) then it gets interesting.
Either you have to keep him sweet (drop both state and federal charges in return for silence) or you have to consider the absolute heaviest of sticks.

Post Presidency secrecy has hitherto been assumed on the grounds that the ex-President is a decent person who cares about his legacy, has generally bought into the American concept, and understands the correct way for ex-politicians to behave. For the first time there's a loose cannon.

There's a wrinkle in that, in that nothing Trump says is trustworthy. It'll be difficult to independently verify anything he says, and we can be certain he'll fling made up ****, or inflate the truth beyond recognition, out of spite.

The other thing is that he's utterly, aggressively ignorant. You can be fairly certain that he knows nothing about the operational details of the US' spy network, or how the nukes work, or whatever.

At most, you could imagine him ferreting out some salacious details about various enemies, although if you were to take Biden as an example, if he had anything he would've used it already. If he had to fabricate some bull**** about Hunter Biden's laptop, then it had to be pretty slim pickins.

If the CIA has big lever arch files full of scandals for blackmailing assorted political figures around the globe, then Trump evidently doesn't have access to them.

Westernworld.

Gbear wrote: »

There's a wrinkle in that, in that nothing Trump says is trustworthy. It'll be difficult to independently verify anything he says, and we can be certain he'll fling made up ****, or inflate the truth beyond recognition, out of spite.

The other thing is that he's utterly, aggressively ignorant. You can be fairly certain that he knows nothing about the operational details of the US' spy network, or how the nukes work, or whatever.

At most, you could imagine him ferreting out some salacious details about various enemies, although if you were to take Biden as an example, if he had anything he would've used it already. If he had to fabricate some bull**** about Hunter Biden's laptop, then it had to be pretty slim pickins.

If the CIA has big lever arch files full of scandals for blackmailing assorted political figures around the globe, then Trump evidently doesn't have access to them.

The CIA will have private intelligence on loads of domestic figures

Professor Moriarty

Westernworld. wrote: »

I expect to see a lot of him on TV

Surely he will try to monetize his fanbase too, I mean that support must be worth money to him in lots of ways

He'll be on TV alright. Being filmed going in and out of courtrooms.

feelings

Why is he considering pardoning himself for crimes that he said he did not commit? He hasn't been convicted of anything yet, so why the pardon? Are you allowed blanket pardon for all crimes previously committed?

prawnsambo

Quin_Dub wrote: »

There's a degree of logic to that , but surely as POTUS he could just ask for it?

He has the power to request access to anything I would have thought..

It's not like subtlety is a trait of his.

Not sure that the intelligence services would be handing over the results of their investigations to the subject of those investigations. Assuming of course that there are any such investigations.

But this could be just paranoia on his behalf if he's already asked for such info and been told that there isn't any.