Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Itssoeasy

1123heavy wrote: »

You cannot control the USA like Europe, totally different animal. Even then when you consider their 350M population (essentially the size of Europe), their death rate % wise is very similar. The media do not highlight this fact though.

It’s not about control.it’s about stepping up and being the leader he was elected to be which he by any metric of past American presidents has failed miserably at leading.

The media do cover the number of cases and deaths nightly but if it’s not the way trump supporters like it, then it’s not reported.

1123heavy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It’s not about control.it’s about stepping up and being the leader he was elected to be which he by any metric of past American presidents has failed miserably at leading.

The media do cover the number of cases and deaths nightly but if it’s not the way trump supporters like it, then it’s not reported.

I'd rather his assessment of "wear a mask and stay home if you feel vulnerable" better than our Dr. Death who hogs the airwaves everyday at 6pm with nothing but doom and gloom.

He has been giving Americans who need it a $1,000 stimulus check for months now, advised the vulnerable stay home and the fit to carry on. Pretty much what is supposed to be done with this virus, not cowering in our bedrooms crippling ourselves with depression and fear.

True he doesn't sugarcoat his words and could sound more diplomatic, but peel away and you find the truth is pretty reasonable. The media won't do that for you though, they'll tell you the story how they want you to see and understand it.

~Rebel~

1123heavy wrote: »

I'd rather his assessment of "where a mask and stay home if you feel vulnerable" better than our Dr. Death who hogs the airwaves everyday at 6pm with nothing but doom and gloom.

He has been giving Americans who need it a $1,000 stimulus check for months now, advised the vulnerable stay home and the fit to carry on. Pretty much what is supposed to be done with this virus, not cowering in our bedrooms crippling ourselves with depression and fear.

True he doesn't sugarcoat his words and could sound more diplomatic, but peel away and you find the truth is pretty reasonable. The media won't do that for you though, they'll tell you the story how they want you to see and understand it.

No... they sent out ONE stimulus check TO LAST people for months. Quite a distinction.

Tell me how

1123heavy wrote: »

I'd rather his assessment of "wear a mask and stay home if you feel vulnerable" better than our Dr. Death who hogs the airwaves everyday at 6pm with nothing but doom and gloom.

He has been giving Americans who need it a $1,000 stimulus check for months now, advised the vulnerable stay home and the fit to carry on. Pretty much what is supposed to be done with this virus, not cowering in our bedrooms crippling ourselves with depression and fear.

True he doesn't sugarcoat his words and could sound more diplomatic, but peel away and you find the truth is pretty reasonable. The media won't do that for you though, they'll tell you the story how they want you to see and understand it.

No previous President has had more of his words or actions broadcast live.
No previous President published more of their thoughts for everyone to see.

The media have not created any narrative around Trump, he has. His attitude, his mannerisms, his behaviour, his incompetency, his mess. He owns it. All of it.

Capt'n Midnight

1123heavy wrote: »

I'd rather his assessment of "wear a mask and stay home if you feel vulnerable" better than our Dr. Death who hogs the airwaves everyday at 6pm with nothing but doom and gloom.

He has been giving Americans who need it a $1,000 stimulus check for months now, advised the vulnerable stay home and the fit to carry on. Pretty much what is supposed to be done with this virus, not cowering in our bedrooms crippling ourselves with depression and fear.

True he doesn't sugarcoat his words and could sound more diplomatic, but peel away and you find the truth is pretty reasonable. The media won't do that for you though, they'll tell you the story how they want you to see and understand it.

ONE $1,200 (two inaccuracies so far) stimulus cheque was delayed because his name wasn't on it. He's that petty.

for just $6/day— the cost of one cup of coffee— you too can sponsor an American

A second stimulus check is still expected to be in the final legislation, But not everyone will get one.

And it could have been paid for by a 1/3rd windfall capital gains tax on how much billionaires wealth has increased since the pandemic started.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-irs-has-already-paid-out-over-half-the-stimulus-check-money-heres-where-it-went-2020-04-24

The IRS has churned out 128.3 million stimulus checks so far and already paid $218.4 billion
...
President Trump signed the $2.2 trillion CARES Act

One of those numbers is a LOT bigger than the other.

Good thing US corporations or Trump don't pay much tax or they'd be worried by the bill.

Capt'n Midnight

Westernworld. wrote: »

At least he'll be remembered for the great wall he built

How many other presidents have managed to build one around the White House ?


Or needed to ?

Glico Man

That second stimulus cheque has been busy occupying space on Mitch McConnell's desk for a while now. He was too busy pushing through a new judge to get to it and help his struggling countrymen, but no, he seems to be the greater evil to be honest.Then he told the House to go for a break.

I really hope the Dems can push through the 2 seats in Georgia otherwise Biden is going to find his presidency tough going. Though I suppose he could always pull a Trump and executive order his way through.

circadian

1123heavy wrote: »

You cannot control the USA like Europe, totally different animal. Even then when you consider their 350M population (essentially the size of Europe), their death rate % wise is very similar. The media do not highlight this fact though.

The E.U has over 100 million more people, that's not an insignificant difference.

Rjd2

Glico Man wrote: »

That second stimulus cheque has been busy occupying space on Mitch McConnell's desk for a while now. He was too busy pushing through a new judge to get to it and help his struggling countrymen, but no, he seems to be the greater evil to be honest.Then he told the House to go for a break.

I really hope the Dems can push through the 2 seats in Georgia otherwise Biden is going to find his presidency tough going. Though I suppose he could always pull a Trump and executive order his way through.

Obviously GOP deserve the blame here, but Pelosi should have taken what the GOP were offering as while it was a poor offer it was most certainly better than nothing. She decided to play politics though and see how the election went instead.

Westernworld.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It’s not about control.it’s about stepping up and being the leader he was elected to be which he by any metric of past American presidents has failed miserably at leading.

The media do cover the number of cases and deaths nightly but if it’s not the way trump supporters like it, then it’s not reported.

Both Boris and Trump reacted too slowly and it cost lives

There's no hiding from it now

Leroy42

Rjd2 wrote: »

Obviously GOP deserve the blame here, but Pelosi should have taken what the GOP were offering as while it was a poor offer it was most certainly better than nothing. She decided to play politics though and see how the election went instead.

Agree, although Trump did everything he could to politicise it and his completely partisan approach to every issue in the previous 3 years meant that Pelosi was extremely slow to do anything that would be seen to help Trump.

The damage of course, is that the people who need help, not any of the politicians btw, didn't get it or had to wait.

Trumps delaying the sending of cheques so his name could be on it showed how he would use it to try to make it politically beneficial to him. He should have looked for a bipartisan approach, pull the US together.

But he was too self centered and short term for that, and Pelosi followed. The irony is that had he taken a more conciliatory approach he probably would have won the election.

So clearly Pelosi could have been better and acted differently, but the experience of McConnell and Trump of the last 4 years taught her not to do that.

In the end, the people lost because their leader couldn't lead for anyone but himself.

Midlife

Itssoeasy wrote: »

If trump had handled covid even remotely well like other countries who were scrambling early on but to varying degrees got a handle on the virus and got varying opinion poll bumps. He had the economy ticking over if he’d done something to slow the virus it’s obvious he could have won. The thing is trump knew the seriousness of the virus and decided to do nothing.

Yeah, this is pretty much correct.

US is on par with UK, France, Italy and Spain in terms of death rate.

But the US had slightly more notice so really should have done better. Then Trump's actions were to set up a 'do nothing' task force and then basically say federal gvt had no role.

Basically with slightly extra notice they did as bad as anyone.

It'd probably go easier on Trump is he hadn't consistently lied about how they were doing.

Westernworld.

His inaction is made look worse as the vaccines are about to come on stream

It looks like a 1Yr crisis and the winners are the countries who saved the most lives

Would have been different if the timeframe without effective vaccines had been much longer

normakelle

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

ONE $1,200 (two inaccuracies so far) stimulus cheque was delayed because his name wasn't on it. He's that petty.

for just $6/day— the cost of one cup of coffee— you too can sponsor an American

A second stimulus check is still expected to be in the final legislation, But not everyone will get one.

And it could have been paid for by a 1/3rd windfall capital gains tax on how much billionaires wealth has increased since the pandemic started.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-irs-has-already-paid-out-over-half-the-stimulus-check-money-heres-where-it-went-2020-04-24One of those numbers is a LOT bigger than the other.

Good thing US corporations or Trump don't pay much tax or they'd be worried by the bill.

They got a 1,200 stimulus check but those not working because of the pandemic got an unemployment pandemic payment which stopped about a month ago as the funds weren't released so you just get unemployment at the minute.

MadYaker

Rjd2 wrote: »

Obviously GOP deserve the blame here, but Pelosi should have taken what the GOP were offering as while it was a poor offer it was most certainly better than nothing. She decided to play politics though and see how the election went instead.

There's only so many times she's going to try to work with them and be given the two fingers in return. Trump made it impossible for any sort of a deal to be done. Once he is gone there will swift progress on the coronavirus stimulus package.

looksee

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/europe/ireland-migrant-healthcare-workers-deportation-intl/index.html

A fairly lengthy opinion piece prominently placed on CNN about migrant workers being deported from Ireland.

I am not sure if this is appropriate here, but I suspect it might be. First I have to emphasise that I am sympathetic to the gist of the story, immigrants should not be allowed to stay here for long periods of time, working and getting established, then deported. Decisions should be made in less than, say, 6 months.
this article refers to 2 cases and we have only a limited version of the story, though again, one would be inclined to say that someone who has worked in pandemic situations, in vital nursing home situations should be cut some slack.

However, how come it just now appears on a US news site? Is it a coincidence that a pretty much 'diss the Irish' story appears at the same time as Biden's Irish background is being discussed and the Trump/Johnson situation is playing out? Its really a fairly thin story, is it co-incidence or is there an agenda?

Carfacemandog

1123heavy wrote: »

I'd rather his assessment of "wear a mask and stay home if you feel vulnerable" better than our Dr. Death who hogs the airwaves everyday at 6pm with nothing but doom and gloom.

He has been giving Americans who need it a $1,000 stimulus check for months now, advised the vulnerable stay home and the fit to carry on. Pretty much what is supposed to be done with this virus, not cowering in our bedrooms crippling ourselves with depression and fear.

True he doesn't sugarcoat his words and could sound more diplomatic, but peel away and you find the truth is pretty reasonable. The media won't do that for you though, they'll tell you the story how they want you to see and understand it.

First, that was a one off payment and not monthly. If you want to break it down to monthly, Imthebcheques would come to about $145, or a whopping $36/wk which is about €32... not so great compared to €350 covid payment here or other measures like Canada covering 70% of people's pre covid pay.

Secondly, your initial post asked to compare death rates in Europe with those in the US - that is cateorcially untrue. The deaths per million in the US are currently at 725, while Iin Europe they are 455 and in the EU at 405... that is a massive difference.

However since you then decided to compare Ireland's handling of the situation with the US', in Ireland our death rate per million is at 397.

And all of this despite the US outside of new York and NJ being almost entirely unaffected by covid for the first few months, which is when most of Europe picked up its most severe death tolls as the virus wasn't nearly as well known as it is now. The US, which also has the advantage of a population density less than one third of Europe or the EU, and only half that of Ireland's, shouldnt even have half the death toll per capita of Europthese places, and yet here it is at not far off double.

Thank fcuk we didn't take the US' approach. Thank fcuk we were realistic about this virus. Thank fcuk we were actually prepared and didn't just close our eyes and. Hope for the best. The difference has been thousands and thousands of Irish lives.

Capt'n Midnight

Midlife wrote: »

Yeah, this is pretty much correct.

US is on par with UK, France, Italy and Spain in terms of death rate.

But the US had slightly more notice so really should have done better. Then Trump's actions were to set up a 'do nothing' task force and then basically say federal gvt had no role.

Basically with slightly extra notice they did as bad as anyone.

It'd probably go easier on Trump is he hadn't consistently lied about how they were doing.

And hadn't started a bidding war with the states for ventilators.

And hadn't been political at every turn.

There was no leading by example. If he'd worn a mask in public earlier ?

Didn't impose proper travel bans or quarantine arrangements. Banned China but allowed Ireland and the UK, places where he had businesses the depended on travel.


No matter how low you set the bar he fails to meet it.
It's insane that "there's always a tweet", he doesn't even meet his own standards.

Capt'n Midnight

Carfacemandog wrote: »

And all of this despite the US outside of new York and NJ being almost entirely unaffected by covid for the first few months, which is when most of Europe picked up its most severe death tolls as the virus wasn't nearly as well known as it is now. The US, which also has the advantage of a population density less than one third of Europe or the EU, and only half that of Ireland's, shouldnt even have half the death toll per capita of Europthese places, and yet here it is at not far off double.

The context for the US death rates is that Covid is now more survivable than when it started.

Simple things like steroids have reduced the death rate in extreme cases by a third. Fewer people need ventilators because less invasive techniques can be used for all but the most severe. Plasma donations etc.

And it's all moot unless you are slowing down the spread. The US is failing as long as the number of people keeps rising. What Trump needs to do at a minimum is stop hindering.


only one state with a lower rate.

and that is only lower than a spike, otherwise it's increasing too.

Professor Moriarty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The context for the US death rates is that Covid is now more survivable than when it started.

Simple things like steroids have reduced the death rate in extreme cases by a third. Fewer people need ventilators because less invasive techniques can be used for all but the most severe. Plasma donations etc.

And it's all moot unless you are slowing down the spread. The US is failing as long as the number of people keeps rising. What Trump needs to do at a minimum is stop hindering.


only one state with a lower rate.

and that is only lower than a spike, otherwise it's increasing too.

Though the mortality rate is decreasing, what is important is the hospitalisation rates. With increasing infection rates you will have increased hospitalisations. This impacts on resources in general and consequently impacts cancer patients, cardiac patients, elective surgery etc.

arriba

1123heavy wrote: »

Say what you want about Trump, but for anyone who holds conservative values then he's your only real bet.

If you are a practicing Christian, Muslim or Jew then you would be anti gay marriage, anti transgenderism, not happy about these new toilets whereby any man identifying as a woman can go into the women's. You'd be (or should be) anti war as well as anti abortion (or at least your tax dollars paying for it).

So it's no surprise whatsoever that Trump got 71M votes. The media do ridicule him far more than they ridicule Biden, yes that is his own fault because he hasn't quite refined the art of speech. However, when judged on his actual policies he was on point for vast swathes of the population, to top it all of he engaged in no new wars - no needless bloodshed thankfully.

Trump - a practicing Christian? It takes more than holding a bible up in front of a church to make a Christian. Hitler said he was one, too, - “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”. I am a practicing Christian, like millions of others, but I most certainly am not anti-gay, anti-transgender, etc., etc. What's the difference between what you say and the Taliban?

No needless bloodshed? Is that why he's been arming the militia, telling them to "stand back and stand by"? To prevent bloodshed?

And not because he loves America or even the Republican party. But because he loves Trump. And it's in Russia's, China's, North Korea's, Saudi Arabia, Syria's, etc., interest to have Trump have a stranglehold on Americans.

Capt'n Midnight

Trump can expect more and more bad news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fbi-secret-intelligence-russia-b1722964.html

Former acting FBI director Andrew McCabe has warned that classified intelligence from bureau’s investigation into President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign ties to Russia could contain information that would “risk casting the president in a very negative light”.

Professor Moriarty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Trump can expect more and more bad news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fbi-secret-intelligence-russia-b1722964.html

That's excellent news. Can't wait for it to leak out.

one armed dwarf

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Trump can expect more and more bad news.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-fbi-secret-intelligence-russia-b1722964.html

Wonder if it's the epstein stuff from 2016.

normakelle

Carfacemandog wrote: »

First, that was a one off payment and not monthly. If you want to break it down to monthly, Imthebcheques would come to about $145, or a whopping $36/wk which is about €32... not so great compared to €350 covid payment here or other measures like Canada covering 70% of people's pre covid pay.

Secondly, your initial post asked to compare death rates in Europe with those in the US - that is cateorcially untrue. The deaths per million in the US are currently at 725, while Iin Europe they are 455 and in the EU at 405... that is a massive difference.

However since you then decided to compare Ireland's handling of the situation with the US', in Ireland our death rate per million is at 397.

And all of this despite the US outside of new York and NJ being almost entirely unaffected by covid for the first few months, which is when most of Europe picked up its most severe death tolls as the virus wasn't nearly as well known as it is now. The US, which also has the advantage of a population density less than one third of Europe or the EU, and only half that of Ireland's, shouldnt even have half the death toll per capita of Europthese places, and yet here it is at not far off double.

Thank fcuk we didn't take the US' approach. Thank fcuk we were realistic about this virus. Thank fcuk we were actually prepared and didn't just close our eyes and. Hope for the best. The difference has been thousands and thousands of Irish lives.

They did have a covid payment which was seperate to the stimulus check. Each adult got 1,200 each child got 500 each from the stimulus check. My brother lives in Texas wasn't working because of covid. He got just under 1200 every 2 weeks for a few months That now has dropped to over 300 dollars every 2 weeks for the past month.
Both sides need to stop quarelling and sort out the pandemic payment. They are both wrong dems and republicans. Nancy has things in it that she wants that has nothing to do with the pandemic and he has stuck his heels in saying she needs to take stuff out. Both of them need to grow up and put the needs of the people first.

aloyisious

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The context for the US death rates is that Covid is now more survivable than when it started.

Simple things like steroids have reduced the death rate in extreme cases by a third. Fewer people need ventilators because less invasive techniques can be used for all but the most severe. Plasma donations etc.

And it's all moot unless you are slowing down the spread. The US is failing as long as the number of people keeps rising. What Trump needs to do at a minimum is stop hindering.


only one state with a lower rate.

and that is only lower than a spike, otherwise it's increasing too.

What's also scary is the way Covid-19 has caused harm to the physical and mental health of survivors, the medics now becoming more and more aware of it's side effects. It's attacked the body's immune system so severely that the bodies may not be able to reject any of the new drugs which may be harmful and not beneficial. I expect that that is why the Pharma Co's, the FDA and the CDC are all doing their damndest not to have another side-effect scandal. People having to relearn how to walk etc... From all appearances, Trump got off extremely lightly from his Covid-19 bout, now able to go golfing.

1123heavy

2016 - 2019: Trump conspired with Russia and the election was rigged. Endless investigations.

2020: Elections cannot be rigged by anybody, how dare you insult democracy by even suggesting so. No we won't investigate a thing.

Incredible the difference mere months can make :rolleyes:

Leroy42

Again?? Really? Nobody ever claimed the 2016 election was rigged. It was claimed that Russia had interfered and that Trump and his associates had both knowledge of that and facilitated it.

Not once, unless of course you have the evidence of it, was it alleged that the voting system was compromised.

VinLieger

1123heavy wrote: »

2016 - 2019: Trump conspired with Russia and the election was rigged. Endless investigations.

2020: Elections cannot be rigged by anybody, how dare you insult democracy by even suggesting so. No we won't investigate a thing.

Incredible the difference mere months can make :rolleyes:

Sigh once again for those in the back who refuse to listen, interfered with and rigged are two very different things.


Also Trumps own DHS said this was the most secure election in history. He of course immeidately fired those in charge because he cant take being told the truth.

Detritus70

1123heavy wrote: »

2016 - 2019: Trump conspired with Russia and the election was rigged. Endless investigations.

2020: Elections cannot be rigged by anybody, how dare you insult democracy by even suggesting so. No we won't investigate a thing.

Incredible the difference mere months can make :rolleyes:

Can you back up your baseless assertions with some links?
Or are you just bored and writing whatever comes to mind?