Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

extra gravy

20Cent wrote: »

Missiles fired at the American Embassy in Baghdad.
Chance for Trump to act rough here, probably with the usual disastrous consequences.

And it happens after troop withdrawals were announced by the patsy Trump has installed. There was a reason those at the Pentagon were warning against premature withdrawals.

aloyisious

salmocab wrote: »

I think it’s too long now but it’s probably not a bad idea under normal circumstances but the problem is a lot of these things are designed with decency in mind, in the past the outgoing president treated the office with respect and generally did what was best for the country.

The problem Trump has created with his petty firings is will there be enough people with knowledge in the outgoing administration from the different Govt Departments and agencies to provide an unbiased briefing to Biden of everything an incoming president should and must know to do the job?

Looking at the path of destruction Trump's laying throughout the U.S right now, there might be few available to step forward from the public service unafraid of Trump and any saboteurs he and his crew have left behind.

looksee

Biden has years of experience of government and White House, he will figure it out. The security and covid issues will certainly be there but he will know what to look for and how to find it out.

AMKC

eire4 wrote: »

When FDR took over from the disaster that has Hoover in 1932 the lame duck period lasted until March 4th. Hoover was such a problem through these 4 months it seems that this lead to the 20th amendment which changed the dates of the transfer of power and brought things up to January 20th. This situation is making a strong argument surely that the transfer of power date needs to be brought forward even further. I mean January 20th is still 2 months away and there looks to be a heck of a lot of damage that will be done between now and then.

They certainly need to look at it again alright. Most of the presidents are respectful of the office unlike Donald Trump but if someone ever gets in like Trump again they need a way of taking power off them for the changeover.

Rjd2

extra gravy wrote: »

And it happens after troop withdrawals were announced by the patsy Trump has installed. There was a reason those at the Pentagon were warning against premature withdrawals.

Their will never be a good time to withdraw troops for those who support forever wars. I wouldn't worry about it though, the one thing the GOP will oppose Trump on is bringing troops home and to be fair he won't exactly fight to hard for it either.

Water John

The transition team are who are liasoned with. Should that be done away with?
The new POTUS needs time to build his team. Maybe the new Cabinet should be named in 14 days and they are the ones who link up with the old Cabinet. This would need to codified.
Problem is the delay in new POTUS being actually ratified. Tighten this up, all early votes counted prior to Election Day. So, normally a State should declare in 72 hours.

Headshot

Trump fires the Cyber Chief

The GOP really have alot to answer for that they are enabling all this ****.

Trump reminds me of the final days of Hitler where he scorched Berlin and in this case Trump is scorching the government

ECO_Mental

Thinking about all the crap that has happened over the last 4 years there is going to have to be some serious investigations and inquiries carried out. It will be played as witch hunting by the GOP and in normal circumstances I think that could be seen as so but the GOP do love a good witch hunt (eg Bengazi :rolleyes:) so they can go a f**k themselves. But there is going to have to be accountability for all these people. They thought they were above the law and broke so many rules and norms and they were able to sweep most of it under the carpet or delay and stall, but hopefully once Biden gets in the truth will start coming out.

For one I want to see how much the Secret Service has paid Trump properties in room rental etc how much it has cost the gov to fly that orange buffoon up and down to Florida every weekend. There is going to have to be a root and branch audit of all departments. I am sure also there are plenty of career civil servants in the Gov that are just sitting on information of dodgy stuff.

Its a big pity about the Senate and the Dems not getting control, but hopefully they might win those 2 seats in Georgia but I'm not holding out hope...

Accountability is the key word here because if there is none its a disgrace. I fear that Biden is going in with the attitude lets work together and let bygones be bygones, but the GOP will never do that. Look at McConnell only yesterday trying to ram through some Trump lackey who was again totally unqualified on to the Fed Reserve board..:mad: lucky that didn't work out for once

Leroy42

Yeah, none of that is going to happen.

It will be swept under the carpet, using the excuse that we all need to move on, now is a time for unity not creating division.

Infini

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, none of that is going to happen.

It will be swept under the carpet, using the excuse that we all need to move on, now is a time for unity not creating division.

That might happen but its yet to be seen expecially if Trump and his cohort go beyond the pale. Biden could also appoint a special investigator independent of party partisan politics that could go after the worst offenders, would be of benefit to the republicans as well to quietly get rid of them as they're a liability in the long run.

listermint

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, none of that is going to happen.

It will be swept under the carpet, using the excuse that we all need to move on, now is a time for unity not creating division.

I dont think so, Democrats will have a keen eye on 2024. And they will need to sow up what has been criminal about the last year. If they dont 2024 will be all out for more of the same from the GOP.

They cant allow that to happen, unity in name but they will go after this.

jaykay74

listermint wrote: »

I dont think so, Democrats will have a keen eye on 2024. And they will need to sow up what has been criminal about the last year. If they dont 2024 will be all out for more of the same from the GOP.

They cant allow that to happen, unity in name but they will go after this.

Agreed, imagine the GoP behaviour if this election had been close. As it is, Biden won the electoral college comfortably and for the electoral college to change the result would have needed multiple swing states to be fipped, not one like Florida in 2000. If say it was all on one state, say Georgia and the difference was a couple of thousand votes you can only imagine the stunts that would be pulled. The one sided nature of the result makes Trump look like a charlatan and the GoP for defending the ongoing efforts despite zero substantial evidence.

pixelburp

Headshot wrote: »

Trump fires the Cyber Chief

The GOP really have alot to answer for that they are enabling all this ****.

Trump reminds me of the final days of Hitler where he scorched Berlin and in this case Trump is scorching the government

What baffles sometimes - truly confuses - is how this man is somehow held up in high regard as a pillar of masculinity and success. I've never known of a public figure so racked by insecurity as to broadcast it to the entire world through action at every turn.

banie01

listermint wrote: »

I dont think so, Democrats will have a keen eye on 2024. And they will need to sow up what has been criminal about the last year. If they dont 2024 will be all out for more of the same from the GOP.

They cant allow that to happen, unity in name but they will go after this.

The progressive wing of the Dems in particular will want to see the enablers held to account.
It really is the worst possible method of democracy ever instituted.
A line from the west wing springs to mind, "only four US-style presidential democracies have lasted longer than thirty years"

Funnily the only countries where it has enjoyed even a modicum of success outside of the US are stereotypically corrupt or banana republics.

Couple a political system that encourages patronage, graft and corruption with a strangely staggered set of election cycles that are inherently designed to prevent either party ever being too harshly punished by losses at the polls.

It is a cesspit of corrupt practice and politicking.
The more I see of the scorching of the administration, the more I see an argument for parliamentary cabinet and government and at least accountability to Parliament.

*Not that Ireland or indeed the Mother of Parliament in the UK are currently ideal examples of such.

Tchaikovsky

pixelburp wrote: »

What baffles sometimes - truly confuses - is how this man is somehow held up in high regard as a pillar of masculinity and success. I've never known of a public figure so racked by insecurity as to broadcast it to the entire world through action at every turn.

He truly is the opposite of the stereotypical masculine/alpha male ideal: constantly whining, never shuts up, never admits responsibility, hides from any type of difficult situation, outrageously vain and eh... a bit rapey.

Quin_Dub

listermint wrote: »

I dont think so, Democrats will have a keen eye on 2024. And they will need to sow up what has been criminal about the last year. If they dont 2024 will be all out for more of the same from the GOP.

They cant allow that to happen, unity in name but they will go after this.

I'd agree , although they are really looking at 2022 as with the incoming redistricting coming on foot of the census they are staring down the barrel of losing the House in 2 years time.

I suspect that there won't be any "Special Investigators" or Congressional hearings etc. to allow them to remain above it , but they will absolutely facilitate any and all State or Federal investigations into Trump and his activities.

astrofool

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

He truly is the opposite of the stereotypical masculine/alpha male ideal: constantly whining, never shuts up, never admits responsibility, hides from any type of difficult situation, outrageously vain and eh... a bit rapey.

I think it's that his supporters see those traits in themselves, and by him being the "best" it elevates themselves somehow. It's been a neat trick by trump (I doubt he meant it), but by doing this, effectively his supporters were voting for themselves to win and could share in the reflected glory. When he lost, it all disappeared and is why he's lashing out the way he is.

I mean, people worry about the transition team missing information, I doubt the current administration has any coherent plan or policy on anything that needs to be passed on, and there's enough leaks that matters of national security are known by everyone anyway.

pixelburp

astrofool wrote: »

I think it's that his supporters see those traits in themselves, and by him being the "best" it elevates themselves somehow. It's been a neat trick by trump (I doubt he meant it), but by doing this, effectively his supporters were voting for themselves to win and could share in the reflected glory. When he lost, it all disappeared and is why he's lashing out the way he is.

I mean, people worry about the transition team missing information, I doubt the current administration has any coherent plan or policy on anything that needs to be passed on, and there's enough leaks that matters of national security are known by everyone anyway.

Policies are one thing but as far as I know, Biden et al should also be receiving intelligence reports from the various security branches of the state. The new admin could be starting it's term utterly blind to the geopolitical status quo, which ain't ideal

Carfacemandog

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, none of that is going to happen.

It will be swept under the carpet, using the excuse that we all need to move on, now is a time for unity not creating division.

If Biden goes down this route, he has doomed America and again (like Obama previously) made it explicitly clear that laws do not apply to republican politicians or their staff, including direct attacks on democracy and democratic process. It is by a distance the single worst option possible.

serfboard

banie01 wrote: »

What other developed nation has elections and then waits 2 and a half months to actually transfer power?

Emmmmm ... Belgium?

Elections for the Federal Parliament were held in Belgium on 13 June 2010... It took a world record 541 days until a government was formed

I know that it's a different point that you're making, but worth noting how different democracies compare.

aloyisious

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If Biden goes down this route, he has doomed America and again (like Obama previously) made it explicitly clear that laws do not apply to republican politicians or their staff, including direct attacks on democracy and democratic process. It is by a distance the single worst option possible.

I had a thought a few minutes ago on whether the Dems might be able to get a new law on the books whereby no sitting president could arbitrarily fire a senior public servant in the manner that Trump has been allowed to. Any such law could not tie down but have to allow any president to fire a public servant for malfeasance, incompetence or similar offence but bar the president from taking Trump's firings as acceptable precedents. Remove the power of emperor from any president that Trump's unrestricted behaviour has made de facto due to the GOP senators refusing to slap down Trump. McConnell has proven himself an empty vessel.

Quin_Dub

banie01 wrote: »

The entire delayed transfer of power is a concept of the 18th and 19th century.
There is no good reason not to have a near immediate transfer once the electoral college has met.

What other developed nation has elections and then waits 2 and a half months to actually transfer power?
It's lunacy, the justification for it in the days of long journey times and harvest and other BS are long past mattering.

You kind of answered your own question in the 1st part of your post.

A large swathe of the US (mostly GOP) place an utterly ridiculous value on the "original" Consitution.

The various delays between Election delay and the EC Vote and then to the Congressional vote and finally to the actual Inauguration made a certain amount of sense 150/200 years ago when it could take days if not weeks for for the results to make their way back or for Electors to travel to Washington to cast their vote etc.

But the current delays are an utterly unnecessary affectation , not unlike the pointless traditions of the Division bell and Division lobbies in Westminster.

Infini

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If Biden goes down this route, he has doomed America and again (like Obama previously) made it explicitly clear that laws do not apply to republican politicians or their staff, including direct attacks on democracy and democratic process. It is by a distance the single worst option possible.

What will likely happen is the approach Biden is taking with Trump atm, refuse to engage with the Orange Troll except on points of serious national interest like Coronavirus, blank him entirely online and at the same time appoint staff to his cabinet and departments who will take care of the refuse. He won't directly involve himself with any issues regarding Trump he'll likely appoint his AG and have him let the DOJ sort through it. Let the system deal with Trumps wrongdoings and focus on important things like the Coronavirus and such.

Trump might try again in 2024 but I don't think he will be in a position to do so, he's kicking up because he's likely paranoid of the walls closing in on him as his debtors will come knocking and calling in Debts not to mention that there's likely a significant number of court cases and possible criminal charges as well. He's unlikely to get the Nixon bailout either if it happens as he's done serious damage to society as a whole with his astroturfing and gaslighting. Likely he'll be bankrupt and broke entirely as well.

banie01

serfboard wrote: »

Emmmmm ... Belgium?
I know that it's a different point that you're making, but worth noting how different democracies compare.

Completely different tho, government continued to function and ministries carried on in caretaker roles.
There was no paralysis of the state. There was no deliberate wrecking ball or destruction of state institutions.
Just a prolonged difficulty in forming a coalition.

banie01

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But the current delays are an utterly unnecessary affectation , not unlike the pointless traditions of the Division bell and Division lobbies in Westminster.

You see the pomp and ceremony of Westminster affectation is all well and good but it's not really comparable to opportunity for harm that exists in having 80+ days between election and installation.
I'd rather take the speed that government changes hands post election in the UK as an example. The organs of state function and continue in the hands of the CS. The Ministers and the policies may change, but the state continues to function and no overt harm can be caused by sore losers.
A further example would be when Bojo tried to to prorogue Parliament he was quickly brought to heel by a politically independent judiciary.

There are massive deficiencies in how the US system of government functions.
The current incumbent has truly shattered the myth of checks and balances.

Foxtrol

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

He truly is the opposite of the stereotypical masculine/alpha male ideal: constantly whining, never shuts up, never admits responsibility, hides from any type of difficult situation, outrageously vain and eh... a bit rapey.

That kind of delusion is just a feature of the right wing in the US. They use the term 'safe spaces' to insult others yet meltdown when they are exposed to anything outside of what they see as 'traditional values'. They whine about 'cancel culture' yet are the first to call for the banning or boycott of anything they don't like.

Tell me how

Foxtrol wrote: »

That kind of delusion is just a feature of the right wing in the US. They use the term 'safe spaces' to insult others yet meltdown when they are exposed to anything outside of what they see as 'traditional values'. They whine about 'cancel culture' yet are the first to call for the banning or boycott of anything they don't like.

Not just the US.

No shortage of threads here of a conservative nature where the many participants complain about some topic while referring to liberal snowflakes.

volchitsa

banie01 wrote: »

You see the pomp and ceremony of Westminster affectation is all well and good but it's not really comparable to opportunity for harm that exists in having 80+ days between election and installation.
I'd rather take the speed that government changes hands post election in the UK as an example. The organs of state function and continue in the hands of the CS. The Ministers and the policies may change, but the state continues to function and no overt harm can be caused by sore losers.
A further example would be when Bojo tried to to prorogue Parliament he was quickly brought to heel by a politically independent judiciary.

There are massive deficiencies in how the US system of government functions.
The current incumbent has truly shattered the myth of checks and balances.

I think this is true. Turns out it was entirely dependent on politicians being fundamentally respectful, law abiding people themselves. We need to stop taking it for granted that democracy is a given in the western world.

Thargor

Rudy in fine form in court today:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/us-politics/rudy-giuliani-court-trump-election-b73101.html

He also mistook the judge for a federal judge in a separate Pennsylvania district who rejected a separate Trump campaign case - and tripped himself up over the meaning of "opacity."

"In the plaintiffs' counties, they were denied the opportunity to have an unobstructed observation and ensure opacity," Mr Giuliani said. "I'm not quite sure I know what opacity means. It probably means you can see, right?"

"It means you can't," said U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann.

"Big words, your honour," Mr Giuliani said.

Carfacemandog

Quin_Dub wrote: »

A large swathe of the US (mostly GOP) place an utterly ridiculous value on the "original" Consitution.

Though only when it suits, for many of them.