Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Retr0gamer

hotmail.com wrote: »

Surely Johnson and Nixon are worse in the last 50 years. The millions killed in Vietnam and Combodia surely outweigh any of the stuff Trump did. Not to mention all the dead Iraqis caused by George Bush.

It's more the deaths of the electorate he is meant to serve. In less than a year more americans died of covid 19 than US servicemen died in the entirety of world war 2. That's a gross failure right there that could easily have been avoided. Combine that with his attack on democracy and the very foundations that America is built on with this stolen election rubbish. And if you want a failure of foreign policy how about leaving thousands of kurds to be massacred by pulling out the troops left their to protect them and a total failure to effectively deal with Russia and China.

He had control of the senate and managed to achieve absolutely nothing when it should have been an own goal. I feel the consequences of trump's tenure will be felt for years and take years to heal. He will go down in history as the countries worst president. A president that managed to achieve nothing and cause so much hurt. He had a very easy ride until covid. No wars, major natural disasters and yet when he was tested he failed utterly.

listermint

hotmail.com wrote: »

Part of the American problem is this lack of interest in the deaths of non Americans, non white people.

But as outsiders, we can see this is devastating. So that's why I would rank those presidents which caused so much death, as particularly awful.

As much as Trump is mad, there hasn't been anything done that is undemocratic as far as I can see. Taking court cases and talking rubbish on Twitter isn't undemocratic. I suppose I've never taken him seriously as others and don't get fussed about his tweets.

At 326,000 plus dead in 9 months. You could say the lack of interest in dead americans.

That's nearly 1100 times the dead on sept 11th.

Or half a sept 11th every day since this began.

alchemist33

hotmail.com wrote: »

Part of the American problem is this lack of interest in the deaths of non Americans, non white people.

But as outsiders, we can see this is devastating. So that's why I would rank those presidents which caused so much death, as particularly awful.

As much as Trump is mad, there hasn't been anything done that is undemocratic as far as I can see. Taking court cases and talking rubbish on Twitter isn't undemocratic. I suppose I've never taken him seriously as others and don't get fussed about his tweets.

Trying to get the electoral votes of an entire state thrown out, to be replaced by the votes of Republican -led state legislature is very undemocratic.

PropJoe10

Cody montana wrote: »

Remember when Obama wore a tan suit?
The outrage.

I think trump will go down as the worst president in American history.

Certainly the most corrupt and incompetent individual to ever occupy that office.

aloyisious

hotmail.com wrote: »

Part of the American problem is this lack of interest in the deaths of non Americans, non white people. As much as Trump is mad, there hasn't been anything done that is undemocratic as far as I can see. Taking court cases and talking rubbish on Twitter isn't undemocratic.

One thing is certain and that's a large proportion of Trumps fellow U.S citizens are exactly that in his opinion and also that opinion is held by a large number of his US fanbase, who do take what he tweets and says seriously. His fanbase also includes non-white Americans. Europe and the world population has even more of those same non-americans, non-white people. A U.S president who's sanity is in doubt is more dangerous and nothing like an annoying uncle who's foibles can be safely ignored.

hotmail.com

listermint wrote: »

At 326,000 plus dead in 9 months. You could say the lack of interest in dead americans.

That's nearly 1100 times the dead on sept 11th.

Or half a sept 11th every day since this began.

Oh yes, Americans don't care about the loss of life from Covid either. I figured that out early on.

Headshot

Oh how ironic and funny that Trump is now lashing out against the GOP

Caegan

hotmail.com wrote: »

Surely Johnson and Nixon are worse in the last 50 years. The millions killed in Vietnam and Combodia surely outweigh any of the stuff Trump did. Not to mention all the dead Iraqis caused by George Bush.

Nope not as bad as those bold boys by any stretch.

As a normal human, not a sociopath, he's a ****ing monster. And that you are going n here comparing apples and oranges...well I don't need that infraction

aloyisious

November, Pennsylvania voting fraud. Seems that Trump was right, only snag is that the elector's son admitted to detectives investigating the Trump campaign allegations that he had registered her to vote after her death 12 years ago but knows nothing about how the ballot was used to vote for Trump. This week, Jack Stollsteimer, the district attorney of Delaware County, accused Bruce Bartman of Marple Township, Pa., of illegally voting in place of his deceased mother in the general election. In addition to his mother, Mr. Bartman registered his mother-in-law, Elizabeth Weihman, who died in 2019, as a voter, according to the district attorney’s office, but is not accused of voting for her. He also cast a ballot under his own name.

Samuel Stretton, a lawyer for Mr. Bartman, said: “He’s admitted everything. He’s cooperated.” Mr. Stretton added that he was negotiating a guilty plea, and that Mr. Bartman had no criminal record. “He’s a good man,” Mr. Stretton said. “He did something very stupid under some misguided theory that this was his form of protest.”

“Some of the stuff that has gone on in Philadelphia is just atrocious,” Mr. Bartman added. Mr. Stretton, his lawyer, said, “He was wrong in saying that, he admits he was wrong, and since he was approached by the detectives, he has cooperated and told the truth.”

rossie1977

Cody montana wrote: »

Remember when Obama wore a tan suit?
The outrage.

I think trump will go down as the worst president in American history.

Absolutely no question he will be ranked worst. It's not even going to be close.

In terms of integrity, intelligence, ability to compromise, executive ability, communication ability, leadership ability, relationship with Congress, executive appointments, court appointments and ability to avoid crucial mistakes Trump will be ranked bottom by every presidental historian..

Cody montana

rossie1977 wrote: »

Absolutely no question he will be ranked worst. It's not even going to be close.

In terms of integrity, intelligence, ability to compromise, executive ability, communication ability, leadership ability, relationship with Congress, executive appointments, court appointments and ability to avoid crucial mistakes Trump will be ranked bottom by every presidental historian..

Really, I had zero interest in American politics till Trump.
Watching his disastrous presidency has been bewildered and eye opening.

Glad we live in Europe.

ancapailldorcha

Headshot wrote: »

Oh how ironic and funny that Trump is now lashing out against the GOP

Arguably but this was inevitable, either now or in 2024. There's nothing holding them together now that he has lost the election. If it weren't for his cult-like status among millions of Americans, he'd have been given the pariah treatment immediately after the result was accepted by the GOP.

If Trump is able to convince a large proportion of Americans that the GOP is their enemy then we might see some progress there and his presidency might have achieved something positive.

hotmail.com

rossie1977 wrote: »

Absolutely no question he will be ranked worst. It's not even going to be close.

In terms of integrity, intelligence, ability to compromise, executive ability, communication ability, leadership ability, relationship with Congress, executive appointments, court appointments and ability to avoid crucial mistakes Trump will be ranked bottom by every presidental historian..

Have you examined each president before coming to such a certain position.

America has had a lot of terrible presidents. The pre civil war presidents were disastrous. Herbert Hoover did nothing to help alleviate deprivation during the Great Depression, successive US presidents pursued a disastrous policy of containment which killed millions during the Cold War and of course George Bush led a campaign on "terror" which killed thousands and still effects the Middle East now.

Surely court appointments and the other things you mention seem completely trivial compared to this?

duploelabs

hotmail.com wrote: »

Have you examined each president before coming to such a certain position.

America has had a lot of terrible presidents. The pre civil war presidents were disastrous. Herbert Hoover did nothing to help alleviate deprivation during the Great Depression, successive US presidents pursued a disastrous policy of containment which killed millions during the Cold War and of course George Bush led a campaign on "terror" which killed thousands and still effects the Middle East now.

Surely court appointments and the other things you mention seem completely trivial compared to this?

You're saying this with the benefit of hindsight. The effects of withdrawal of troops from Syria and the 'lifetime' appointments of judges (just taking two examples) have yet to be seen

Carfacemandog

hotmail.com wrote: »

Have you examined each president before coming to such a certain position.

America has had a lot of terrible presidents. The pre civil war presidents were disastrous. Herbert Hoover did nothing to help alleviate deprivation during the Great Depression,

Just as Trump did nothing to alleviate the covid 19 crisis in the US, and even actively made it worse.

successive US presidents pursued a disastrous policy of containment which killed millions during the Cold War and of course George Bush led a campaign on "terror" which killed thousands and still effects the Middle East now.

Which continued under Trump to such an extent that they outright stopped reporting on the number of drone strikes in the middle East after they escalated so much.

And then just a few days ago, Trump went ahead and pardoned multiple war criminals who committed their atrocities in the middle East during those wars. Not for the first time either, as he did the same for Eddie Gallagher and his supporters (who largely would have voted for Bush) made sure people knew they were absolutely fine with it.

Surely court appointments and the other things you mention seem completely trivial compared to this?

Surely you won't try to ignore the horrific actions of the US under Trump, including the ones outlined in this post?

FrostyJack

Carfacemandog wrote: »

And then just a few days ago, Trump went ahead and pardoned multiple war criminals who committed their atrocities in the middle East during those wars. Not for the first time either, as he did the same for Eddie Gallagher and his supporters (who largely would have voted for Bush) made sure people knew they were absolutely fine with it.

The pardoning of the Blackwater people is not the same as Gallagher, firstly I he wasn't pardoned. Not only did the Blackwater crew recklessness result in Iraqi lives but I am sure the blow back was felt by the American troops over there, and did nothing good for hearts and minds campaign. Having listened to many podcasts Gallagher was on, I am on the fence about him. He seems like he was railroaded by the Navy and there was lots of hearsay and conjecture in his case. At first glance it seemed like he was a Chris Kyle sociopath but it is possible he is more of a Roy Keane, belligerent figure and was disliked by some because of this. He has come across as a normal guy, and is very confident in his defence, but this could be all an act. Further investigation is needed. He did say he owes his life to Trump, so you can't blame him for supporting him.

hotmail.com

duploelabs wrote: »

You're saying this with the benefit of hindsight. The effects of withdrawal of troops from Syria and the 'lifetime' appointments of judges (just taking two examples) have yet to be seen

History is about having the benefit of hindsight. That's the point. Historians don't make judgements until long after the person has left office when the hysteria has died down. They examine the policy effects and impact on the country. Most of the Trump madness will be forgotten. Remember the impeachment soap opera.. forgotten.

At the moment, it's impossible to say he's the worst president ever.

MadYaker

hotmail.com wrote: »

History is about having the benefit of hindsight. That's the point. Historians don't make judgements until long after the person has left office when the hysteria has died down. They examine the policy effects and impact on the country. Most of the Trump madness will be forgotten. Remember the impeachment soap opera.. forgotten.

At the moment, it's impossible to say he's the worst president ever.

Are you serious? He spent the last few days pardoning his criminal friends. You have zero credibility here.

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

History is about having the benefit of hindsight. That's the point. Historians don't make judgements until long after the person has left office when the hysteria has died down. They examine the policy effects and impact on the country. Most of the Trump madness will be forgotten. Remember the impeachment soap opera.. forgotten.

At the moment, it's impossible to say he's the worst president ever.

I think I can safely say without a shadow of a doubt that in my opinion he is the worst president ever. Some will agree with me, others (like yourself) may disagree.

There will be people that will (no matter what) always believe that Trump was a good/great/best president and will always believe that the election was "stolen" from him.

FrostyJack

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think I can safely say without a shadow of a doubt that in my opinion he is the worst president ever. Some will agree with me, others (like yourself) may disagree.

There will be people that will (no matter what) always believe that Trump was a good/great/best president and will always believe that the election was "stolen" from him.

The main reason I would put him in the worst president category is, bar the covid crisis of this year, there hasn't been any major events, like World War or financial crisis but still manage to turn it into a *hit show. Like with his inheritance, if he just left it alone and did nothing, he would be better off. At every turn he just made it worse. Say for example he didn't use Twitter, how much better off he and his presidency would have been.

hotmail.com

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I think I can safely say without a shadow of a doubt that in my opinion he is the worst president ever. Some will agree with me, others (like yourself) may disagree.

There will be people that will (no matter what) always believe that Trump was a good/great/best president and will always believe that the election was "stolen" from him.

I just think all this will be forgotten once the hysteria has died down.

rossie1977

hotmail.com wrote: »

Have you examined each president before coming to such a certain position.

I have read nearly every major survey and scholarship report from last few decades such as Siena. Again based on how they rank Trump will be dead last in almost every category except luck. More recent Siena report had Trump last (bottom three among Republican scholars) and that was before Covid response disaster https://www.wamc.org/post/siena-releases-6th-presidential-expert-poll

America has had a lot of terrible presidents. The pre civil war presidents were disastrous. Herbert Hoover did nothing to help alleviate deprivation during the Great Depression, successive US presidents pursued a disastrous policy of containment which killed millions during the Cold War and of course George Bush led a campaign on "terror" which killed thousands and still effects the Middle East now.

There was bad sure. Trump was the worst.

Bush e.g didn't go out of his way to threaten NATO allies or start trade was EU. He didn't completely ignore Democrats in congress and push through shade bills in the middle of the night which nobody had time to read. Bush had below average intelligence sure but he didn't go out of his way to demean anyone who was in any way negative towards him and or try to control media in his favour.

Surely court appointments and the other things you mention seem completely trivial compared to this?

Court appointments are lifetime positions. Trump has installed two supreme court justices (who are either completely unqualified or whose past is so seedy they shouldn't be a judge on TV) who will shape US future for next 30-40 years. Trump's legacy will be felt by Americans long after he is dead and that is huge.

hotmail.com

MadYaker wrote: »

Are you serious? He spent the last few days pardoning his criminal friends. You have zero credibility here.

Well no need to get personal just because you don't agree with someone.

Pardoning people on dodgy grounds isn't new in America and has little or no effect on ordinary people. This is why historians will skip over it.

hotmail.com

rossie1977 wrote: »

I have read nearly every major survey and scholarship report from last few decades such as Siena. Again based on how they rank Trump will be dead last in almost every category except luck. More recent Siena report had Trump last (bottom three among Republican scholars) and that was before Covid response disaster https://www.wamc.org/post/siena-releases-6th-presidential-expert-poll



There was bad sure. Trump was the worst.

Bush e.g didn't go out of his way to threaten NATO allies or start trade was EU. He didn't completely ignore Democrats in congress and push through shade bills in the middle of the night which nobody had time to read. Bush had below average intelligence sure but he didn't go out of his way to demean anyone who was in any way negative towards him and or try to control media in his favour.



Court appointments are lifetime positions. Trump has installed two supreme court justices (who are either completely unqualified or whose past is so seedy they shouldn't be a judge on TV) who will shape US future for next 30-40 years. Trump's legacy will be felt by Americans long after he is dead and that is huge.

Since when was the Supreme Court so important anyway.? It's just part of American myth.

Demeaning his opponents usually isn't what historians look at.

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

I just think all this will be forgotten once the hysteria has died down.

I really hope he is forgotten, because that will hurt him more than anything else.

hotmail.com

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I really hope he is forgotten, because that will hurt him more than anything else.

See I'm not interested in hurting him. I find that weird. But each to their own.

Timberrrrrrrr

hotmail.com wrote: »

See I'm not interested in hurting him. I find that weird. But each to their own.

Why? I hope he suffers the way he has made millions of people around the world suffer.

amandstu

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why? I hope he suffers the way he has made millions of people around the world suffer.

Yes ,we don't need to be sadistic to wish for an appropriate form of redress.(forgetting him will not hurt him or his enablers)

Timberrrrrrrr

amandstu wrote: »

Yes ,we don't need to be sadistic to wish for an appropriate form of redress.(forgetting him will not hurt him or his enablers)

Fading into obscurity would bea fate worse than death for a narcissistic personality like Trump.

Detritus70

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Fading into obscurity would bea fate worse than death for a narcissistic personality like Trump.

I'd still go with prison.