Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

PropJoe10

Leroy42 wrote: »

After Trump promised the vaccine was ready and they had everything ready for a swift rollout, including the army, only 2.8m doses have been administered to date.

Trump promised 20m by end of December.

Yet another failure by Trump.

That'll be spun as the fault of someone else though. Nothing could possibly be the fault of King Donald.

Water John

Trump gone back to WH early, seems linked to Hawley's plan.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/31/trump-washington-republicans-challenge-biden-victory

StringerBell

Water John wrote: »

Jan 6th looks like when reality meets fantasy. Pence will have to show his hand.

He just has to read the result into the record, he presides over the senate.

As someone else said, pretending he has some power to change the vote in any way is like thinking the guy who reads the winner of best picture category at the Oscars is the one who decides.

Just more fannying about is all, Hawley launching his 24 bid, pence I expect to do nothing at all.

Pretend for a second that they somehow end up voting on whether to throw out the democratically cast and verified votes, pretend they do it in the senate. The house must also vote for it to be valid, is there any way in some version of events that the democrat majority house is going to vote that way?

It's over, it's been over, it's pathetic.

Water John

Absolutely Bell, but for Trump it's coming face to face with reality.

StringerBell

Water John wrote: »

Absolutely Bell, but for Trump it's coming face to face with reality.

I agree with the sentiment, but I don't actually think trump really cares one way or the other. If he'd got another term, ideal. Guaranteed out of legal trouble for the rest of his days and more years of grifting on top of grifting.

Lost the election, okay, he's had ventures fail before many many times, it's just a quick how much can I milk it dry for before moving on to the next and how best to position himself for the next is my bet on his line of thinking.

I don't think the man has an ounce of sincerity in his body, I think it's all one big con, playing roles so long he doesn't even have a genuine personality anymore. Reality slap incoming for a lot of his supporters alright but that's been well overdue.

It's crazy to think he got so many votes after everything, it's definitely not going to be a flock of the switch and change of president to fix that country.

Overheal

Water John wrote: »

Trump gone back to WH early, seems linked to Hawley's plan.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/31/trump-washington-republicans-challenge-biden-victory

Couldn't say.

Pence also canceled his Israel trip. He was scheduled to leave after the joint session.

Trump already earlier this week announced a rally in GA for the 4th and a rally in DC on the 6th. Sounds like he's headed back into town for counter-programming and put pressure on congressman.

or it could be legitimate nat'l security issues. Just dunno.

aloyisious

Rep Louis Gohmert [R Texas] launched a lawsuit to sue Mike Pence in order to overturn the presidential election result and MP + the DOJ have replied with a counter suit response to Rep Gohmert. It seems there are more than the three announced GOP senators planning to oppose the actual real presidential election vote results [voter and college] being recorded in the senate on the 6th, preferring Trump's faked version to reality. Trump has returned to Washington, departing early from what was supposed to be his welcoming in 2021 in Florida. It's like they and Trump plan to make the joint house and senate meeting on the 6th to be the occasion for the divide in the GOP to be made official.

Overheal

aloyisious wrote: »

Rep Louis Gohmert [R Texas] launched a lawsuit to sue Mike Pence in order to overturn the presidential election result and MP + the DOJ have replied with a counter suit against Gohmert. It seems there are more than the three announced GOP senators planning to oppose the actual real presidential election vote results [voter and college] being recorded in the senate on the 6th, preferring Trump's faked version to reality. Trump has returned to Washington, departing early from what was supposed to be his welcoming in 2021 in Florida.

Do you have a link I cannot find it

Dillonb3

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have a link I cannot find it

Marc Elias has it on his twitter page

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1344780842669846529

Overheal

Dillonb3 wrote: »

Marc Elias has it on his twitter page

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1344780842669846529

Oh ok. That's not a countersuit that sounds like a response to the original suit, that's why it doesn't show up in the headlines as a countersuit.

froog

Overheal wrote: »

Yes, but the schadenfreude... Ah, I’m ready it. While I don’t discount something completely unexpected happening, the situation as it stands legally and constitutionally points to a 89th win for Biden with a sidebar for hurt feelings.

oh yes absolutely nothing can change. i'm thinking of violence from all those nutter groups he's dog whistling to.

aloyisious

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/rep-gohmert-sues-pence-last-192151675.html

CNN reported on the countersuit response by Pence and the DOJ.

aloyisious

Meantime may this 21st year party for our century bring us better cheer than the one from the 20th last year.

amandstu

I wonder should one wish for the break up of the Republican party as a result of these manoeverings?

Is a split to be welcomed by those looking from the sidelines?

If it happens,will the Democrats follow suit?

Would that too be welcome in the long run?

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

I wonder should one wish for the break up of the Republican party as a result of these manoeverings?

Is a split to be welcomed by those looking from the sidelines?

If it happens,will the Democrats follow suit?

Would that too be welcome in the long run?

It will be a re-cycle of the "Tea Party" movement.

amandstu

Overheal wrote: »

It will be a re-cycle of the "Tea Party" movement.

"will"?

So you think it may be on the cards?

Will they be putting themselves out of electoral contention in the short/medium/permanent term as less will vote for a disunited party?

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

"will"?

So you think it may be on the cards?

Will they be putting themselves out of electoral contention in the short/medium/permanent term as less will vote for a disunited party?

Not at all. These “transformations” are ceremonial, Republicans go through this phase where they disavow everything to do with the “old” Republican Party’s problems, while still taking credit for everything “good” about the “old” party. It’s no different than a rebranding effort so voters don’t feel any shared responsibility for having condoned watergate, iran contra, the gulf wars, etc. - the whole effort will fizzle out and just be a sensationalized effort to primary a handful of candidates. In much the same way everyone is a RINO except when they’re all “heroes” when you need to eke out your 51 seat majority to contest an election. It’s the “defund the police” of just shuffling chairs in the party and supporting a different caucus.

Manic Moran

amandstu wrote: »

I wonder should one wish for the break up of the Republican party as a result of these manoeverings?

Is a split to be welcomed by those looking from the sidelines?

If it happens,will the Democrats follow suit?

Would that too be welcome in the long run?

I can't find it, but saw yesterday a GOP congressman calling for just that, and I can't say I blame him. The current moves to claim fraud and delay/throw a wrench in the Biden appointment process are just insane to anyone not a hard demagogue. For some reason, a number of GOP congressfolk believe it's in their personal interest, given their voters, to support this stupidity, but it certainly isn't in the party's overall interest. If they neither split, nor tone things down in the next year, they may as well resign themselves to never winning the White House again, and to losing the Senate. How this can possibly be helping them in the current Georgia runoff is beyond me.

Democrats aren't to the point that they need to split. They are having a division of policy, not of common sense.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

I can't find it, but saw yesterday a GOP congressman calling for just that, and I can't say I blame him. The current moves to claim fraud and delay/throw a wrench in the Biden appointment process are just insane to anyone not a hard demagogue. For some reason, a number of GOP congressfolk believe it's in their personal interest, given their voters, to support this stupidity, but it certainly isn't in the party's overall interest. If they neither split, nor tone things down in the next year, they may as well resign themselves to never winning the White House again, and to losing the Senate. How this can possibly be helping them in the current Georgia runoff is beyond me.

Democrats aren't to the point that they need to split. They are having a division of policy, not of common sense.

How to get things back on track so the "whole" works cohesively and democratically [small d]. I'm continually surprised that there seems to be no rules on whom can claim to be a member of the GOP, or get to the elected groupage at national level which would stop the populist intent on self-promotion alone get to the height of power and "authority" that Trump attained by using the procedures set by the GOP for membership of that senior sensible membership. Given the lax approach to the way he's been let behave, there doesn't seem to be a procedure within the GOP whereby the whip can be withdrawn from some-one like Trump set on imposing himself on the whole, no way to withdraw recognition of him, sideline him or just expel him from the party for bringing it into disrepute. Trump's a rebel with a cause; himself.

The attraction for the few is obvious given how they, as adults, see the other adults let Trump ride roughshod over the party and nation, letting them think "I'll have some of that, ta very much" with NO constraint from above. If the party doesn't set controls in place to stop a re-run of Trump-ism in it, then it's screwed as a cohesive unit. An Enfant Terrible must not be treated as an adult.

aloyisious

In the meantime, Rep Gohmert's lawsuit was dismissed by the judge hearing the attempt to upset the election result on the basis that he had no standing in the matter the suit brought to the court. The GOP senate group voted in the majority to over-ride Trump's veto of the vote for the defence bill, despite a few of Trump's fanbase there disagreeing with the majority.

Professor Moriarty

aloyisious wrote: »

In the meantime, Rep Gohmert's lawsuit was dismissed by the judge hearing the attempt to upset the election result on the basis that he had no standing in the matter the suit brought to the court. The GOP senate group voted in the majority to over-ride Trump's veto of the vote for the defence bill, despite a few of Trump's fanbase there disagreeing with the majority.

Here is Congressman Gohmert speaking on Newsmax after the ruling.

He said that the judge's decision was:

“an example of when the institutions that our constitution created to resolve disputes so that you didn’t have to have riots and violence in the streets, it’s when they go wrong. All this stuff about it [election fraud] being debunked, unsubstantiated, those are absolute lies,” he said, without evidence. “Basically in effect the ruling would be that you got to go to the streets and be as violent as antifa and BLM [Black Lives Matter].”

PropJoe10

It's about time that some of these clowns were taken to court and actually charged with sedition. It's gone beyond a joke now.

Leroy42

Can you imagine the uproar if AOC, Biden, or pretty much any non GOP member, called for people to take to streets as they had lost all confidence in the judicial system?

Because that is exactly what Congressman Gohmert has just done.

StringerBell

Manic Moran wrote: »

I can't find it, but saw yesterday a GOP congressman calling for just that, and I can't say I blame him. The current moves to claim fraud and delay/throw a wrench in the Biden appointment process are just insane to anyone not a hard demagogue. For some reason, a number of GOP congressfolk believe it's in their personal interest, given their voters, to support this stupidity, but it certainly isn't in the party's overall interest. If they neither split, nor tone things down in the next year, they may as well resign themselves to never winning the White House again, and to losing the Senate. How this can possibly be helping them in the current Georgia runoff is beyond me.

Democrats aren't to the point that they need to split. They are having a division of policy, not of common sense.

I was laughed out of it I remember when I suggested the GOP was the more likely party to suffer a serious split and potentially party ending split after the election but for me it still holds true.

That party is at a real crossroads and doesn't seem to be taking the path towards party.

Leroy42

The GOP isn't going to split. The one thing that ties everyone in together in the GOP is power. IMO, the Dems, and 'left' in general across the world, tend to be more stuck to ideological positions. The right, and in this instance GOP, have no such qualms.

The House and Senate races in 2022 are looking very positive from a GOP POV, no point rocking then boat.

The last 4 years proves that. Plenty of things that Trump has done is actually far closer to 'left' than traditional GOP ideas. Even the latest demand of Trump for $2k instead of $600 is more in line with socialist tendencies. The bailout of soya farmers being another.

One of the issues that cost HC the elections, there were many, was the inability of Bernie supporters to get behind her. They took the view that she didn't meet their requirements and thus didn't vote for her. The right will never let themselves lose out by that line of thinking.

IMO, what will happen in the next few years is a split in the DNC, when inevitably Biden cannot keep all factions happy.

looksee

The last 4 years proves that. Plenty of things that Trump has done is actually far closer to 'left' than traditional GOP ideas. Even the latest demand of Trump for $2k instead of $600 is more in line with socialist tendencies. The bailout of soya farmers being another.

There is a world of difference between socialist tendencies and buying votes/popularity/supporters.

aloyisious

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here is Congressman Gohmert speaking on Newsmax after the ruling.

He said that the judge's decision was:

“an example of when the institutions that our constitution created to resolve disputes so that you didn’t have to have riots and violence in the streets, it’s when they go wrong. All this stuff about it [election fraud] being debunked, unsubstantiated, those are absolute lies,” he said, without evidence. “Basically in effect the ruling would be that you got to go to the streets and be as violent as antifa and BLM [Black Lives Matter].”

It'll be interesting to see if has the courage of his convictions, won't attend the joint sitting but be outside with the peaceful protestors and Trump [if the president has the courage to join his fanbase there].

PropJoe10

aloyisious wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see if has the courage of his convictions, won't attend the joint sitting but be outside with the peaceful protestors and Trump [if the president has the courage to join his fanbase there].

Haha Trump won't mix with those commoners. He'll most likely be standing on the balcony at the front of the White House, rattling a money box.

"I love the poorly educated" - Donald J Trump.

Tell me how

Leroy42 wrote: »

The last 4 years proves that. Plenty of things that Trump has done is actually far closer to 'left' than traditional GOP ideas. Even the latest demand of Trump for $2k instead of $600 is more in line with socialist tendencies. The bailout of soya farmers being another.
.

Would disagree with you on this one Letoy42.

The last 4 years has shown that Trump is a narcissist. He is neither left or right.

Very generally speaking about US political ideals;

• Right wingers are strong advocates of the military and christianity. Trump mocked those in the military he had to engage with and used Christianity as a prop.
• Left wingers are against racism and rampant capitalism. Trump pleaded with governors to use violence on BLM protestors and did his best to keep the economy fully open inspite of the impact on covid cases.

It does say a lot about the big hitters in the Republican party and how they hitched themselves to his wagon with John McCain and Mitt Romney being the only 2 who openly rebelled against him. Two people who were very much in the twilight of their careers.

But, we have long seen that republicans who decry socialism are only against 'other people' getting money from the government. Red State governors who disparage New York as being a socialist focused blue state ignore the fact that New York is a net contributor to federal money banks while the red states are net beneficiaries from them.

Trump bailing out soya farmers and advocating for 2000 cheques were merely tools in his battle in a war with someone else. He couldn't give a toss about such people but if he can use being kind to them to hurt someone else then that is a different story. The call for 2K cheques was only made to try to get section 230 removed in conjunction with them being awarded and to embarrass the Republicans who he felt abandoned him in the process. He has played politics with peoples lives from day one right now to his final miserable moments in office.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

The GOP isn't going to split. The one thing that ties everyone in together in the GOP is power. IMO, the Dems, and 'left' in general across the world, tend to be more stuck to ideological positions. The right, and in this instance GOP, have no such qualms.

The House and Senate races in 2022 are looking very positive from a GOP POV, no point rocking then boat.

The last 4 years proves that. Plenty of things that Trump has done is actually far closer to 'left' than traditional GOP ideas. Even the latest demand of Trump for $2k instead of $600 is more in line with socialist tendencies. The bailout of soya farmers being another.

One of the issues that cost HC the elections, there were many, was the inability of Bernie supporters to get behind her. They took the view that she didn't meet their requirements and thus didn't vote for her. The right will never let themselves lose out by that line of thinking.

IMO, what will happen in the next few years is a split in the DNC, when inevitably Biden cannot keep all factions happy.

That will only take them so far. As the national demographics continue to shift, even a 'united' and 'energized' GOP vote is going to be inadequate to counter a split, not-so-energised Democrat vote. They need to not alienate the swingable voters. They won't have a chance otherwise.