Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

partyguinness

I just watched the unedited clip of the woman shot dead- which shows her attempting to enter an internal window and being shot from inside.

What the hell did she expect breaking through an internal window and trying to storm through the opening. She was shot from the inside out. So it would have been one of the security personal within the building.

She quite literally walked right into it like she was 'going over the top' from the trenches. Sympathy will be lacking.

seamus

partyguinness wrote: »

I just watched the unedited clip of the woman shot dead- which shows her attempting to enter an internal window and being shot from inside.

What the hell did she expect breaking through an internal window and trying to storm through the opening. She was shot from the inside out. So it would have been one of the security personal within the building.

She quite literally walked right into it like she was 'going over the top' from the trenches. Sympathy will be lacking.

I mean, I'm more pacifistic than most, but even I recognise that democracy has to be rigorously defended, otherwise you have nothing. If the seat of your democracy is under attack, you repel that attack with everything you've got.

one armed dwarf

That woman was looking forward to yesterday as the culmination of Q's 'Storm' event, a conspiracy where Trump would execute his political opponents. Hard to not see what happened as justified, especially alongside those images of another 'protestor' roaming the halls with zip ties (hint, he wasn't going in to help senators with their cable management)

John O.Groats

partyguinness wrote: »

I just watched the unedited clip of the woman shot dead- which shows her attempting to enter an internal window and being shot from inside.

What the hell did she expect breaking through an internal window and trying to storm through the opening. She was shot from the inside out. So it would have been one of the security personal within the building.

She quite literally walked right into it like she was 'going over the top' from the trenches. Sympathy will be lacking.

I have zero sympathy anyway. If you play with fire then expect to get burned.

partyguinness

John O.Groats wrote: »

I have zero sympathy anyway. If you play with fire then expect to get burned.

Well, if she was black she woundnt have made it into the building that's for sure.

Mearings

I hope that the Dáil Eireann security detail would not succumb as easily as the Capitol Police did to a mob.

Blowfish

So, it seems that though most voters disapprove of what happened, no less than 45% of Republicans support the actions taken by the rioters. I don't know how the GOP are going to walk this back, their pandering to Trump has enabled this and turned a significant proportion of their base against democracy.

Hurrache wrote: »

Yesterday you would have been fairly confident one cannot just walk into the Capitol Building and put your feet up at Pelosi's desk.

I never said you could just download/upload whatever you want, I said it was a security risk.

Indeed. As someone working in InfoSec, I don't envy them having to untangle that mess. Even outside of the actual computers, there's a huge amount of sensitive paper files lying around because of the restrictions on electronic devices on the senate/house floor. Tracking if any of that has been compromised will be next to impossible.

Nody

Blowfish wrote: »

Indeed. As someone working in InfoSec, I don't envy them having to untangle that mess. Even outside of the actual computers, there's a huge amount of sensitive paper files lying around because of the restrictions on electronic devices on the senate/house floor. Tracking if any of that has been compromised will be next to impossible.

https://twitter.com/alizaslav/status/1347033165764972551?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347033165764972551%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-31404054682412736154.ampproject.net%2F2012232217000%2Fframe.htmlClearly peaceful protestors here, nothing going on.

Of course; this was not done by random people either:

Derrick Evans, a newly elected member of West Virginia's House of Delegates, was livestreaming on Facebook as he and other protesters muscled their way through the doors of one entrance carrying Trump flags and signs.

Thankfully idiots be idiots and film and identify themselves...

Quin_Dub

Sparko wrote: »

I'm curious about this element, Pence being the one to authorize deploying the National Guard. Is that a power the VP has, or did Trump have to give some sort of approval? Or did Pence just plow ahead regardless? Absolutely the right decision but I'm just wondering legally speaking did he have right to do it.

No - Not at all.

The President is the commander in chief , the VP is not the "assistant commander-in-chief" or whatever , no such role exists.

The VP is not in the chain of military command in any way shape or form.

He just ignored Trump as did everyone who accepted the instruction/request from him.

In essence Pence committed treason as did everyone that followed his instructions , as you say though , it was the right call as Trump was never going to do it.

That's where the US is today.

Because of Trump.

They will never recover from the reputational damage that Trump did yesterday, never.

This article does a good job detailing the impact in terms of Global democracy.

TheIrishGrover

Blowfish wrote: »

So, it seems that though most voters disapprove of what happened, no less than 45% of Republicans support the actions taken by the rioters. I don't know how the GOP are going to walk this back, their pandering to Trump has enabled this and turned a significant proportion of their base against democracy.

Indeed. As someone working in InfoSec, I don't envy them having to untangle that mess. Even outside of the actual computers, there's a huge amount of sensitive paper files lying around because of the restrictions on electronic devices on the senate/house floor. Tracking if any of that has been compromised will be next to impossible.

Yep. And while laptops more than likely have USB ports locked who knows what legacy hardware is lurking around such a large governmental institution. You don't need to be pulling files. Simply stick a worm onto a stick and plug it into a decade old machine that's displaying today's canteen offerings around the building.

Lux23

John O.Groats wrote: »

I have zero sympathy anyway. If you play with fire then expect to get burned.

I do have sympathy for her; these people were hoodwinked by that prick who has collected millions off them over the last few weeks and I am pretty sure many of them have little money to spare.

~Rebel~

Nody wrote: »

Of course; this was not done by random people either:
Thankfully idiots be idiots and film and identify themselves...

In the video, Evans identifies himself by shouting, "Derrick Evans is in the Capitol!"

Steve Holt!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Sparko wrote: »

I'm curious about this element, Pence being the one to authorize deploying the National Guard. Is that a power the VP has, or did Trump have to give some sort of approval? Or did Pence just plow ahead regardless? Absolutely the right decision but I'm just wondering legally speaking did he have right to do it.

Legally Pence would need to invoke article 25 of the constitution (declaring trump unfit with backing from cabinet or Congress) to call in the national guard.

I believe technically the secretary of defence issued the orders to the national guard in consultation with Pence. Many sources suggested it was in consultation with McConnell and Pelosi as well which was taken by some as an implication that Pence was to act with Congress to invoke article 25.

If Pence issued the order it would be treasonous. If sec def issued the order it would be him doing his job.

StringerBell

Just saw bits of trumps speech yesterday morning now, he actually told them he would be walking down Pennsylvania Avenue with them while they went to take back their country - isn't it amazing that simply because of his office he can't be arrested for inciting a riot like any normal citizen would - I really hope I don't hear any excuses made for him on this one.

partyguinness

seamus wrote: »

I mean, I'm more pacifistic than most, but even I recognise that democracy has to be rigorously defended, otherwise you have nothing. If the seat of your democracy is under attack, you repel that attack with everything you've got.

I have just watched the shooting from another angle. She was actually dumber than I first thought. Being generous you could say that she was surprised by the shooter but no.

There are armed security personal clearly visible the other side of the glass barrickaded door with guns drawn and literally pointing straight at the opening. Despite this and only I would say 10-12 feet away from a pointed and loaded gun she decides to be a hero and jump up to gain entry. Bang.

Billy Mays

partyguinness wrote: »

I have just watched the shooting from another angle. She was actually dumber than I first thought. Being generous you could say that she was surprised by the shooter but no.

There are armed security personal clearly visible the other side of the glass barrickaded door with guns drawn and literally pointing straight at the opening. Despite this and only I would say 10-12 feet away from a pointed gun she decides to be a hero and jump up to gain entry. Bang.

Getting shot dead to own the libs :cool:

One of life's real winners right there

looksee

Then there is Elizabeth https://twitter.com/i/status/1346972712670011392 who is upset that she got maced trying to access the Capitol building. Who'd a thought you might get hurt during a 'revolution'.

Quin_Dub

Blowfish wrote: »

So, it seems that though most voters disapprove of what happened, no less than 45% of Republicans support the actions taken by the rioters. I don't know how the GOP are going to walk this back, their pandering to Trump has enabled this and turned a significant proportion of their base against democracy.

Those survey results are truly terrifying..

45% of GOP voters - That's ~30M people!!

I'd like to see that same survey in a few days after the impact of it all has had time to sink in , but the responses there are genuinely scary.

But it's easy to see how these people have been lied to..

Tucker Carlson was still at it last night - "This isn't your fault , it's their fault" was his closing line in his monologue.

Basically parroting the deleted Trump tweet - "This is what happens when you steal an Election from patriots"

Hard to see a pathway out for the US here. I mean if Biden et al go after Trump and his crony hard after the election it just further enforces their feelings of victimhood and martyrdom, but equally people must be held to account for their role in creating this situation.

The US are done as a global influence after this. They'll still be relevant due to their economic and military power but their ability to influence the world is over.

They have zero soft power left now.

prawnsambo

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Yep. And while laptops more than likely have USB ports locked who knows what legacy hardware is lurking around such a large governmental institution. You don't need to be pulling files. Simply stick a worm onto a stick and plug it into a decade old machine that's displaying today's canteen offerings around the building.

Ah anything with a USB port will have it locked down to admins only as it logs on to the system. That security technology has been around since God was a child. At least twenty years ago. It's not even slightly debatable.

listermint

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ah anything with a USB port will have it locked down to admins only as it logs on to the system. That security technology has been around since God was a child. At least twenty years ago. It's not even slightly debatable.

Actually not true . The us army had to use as actually glue to seal up the usb ports on machines because foreign agencies were leaving usb drives in car parks and folks were picking them up with an oooo free usb

This is within the last ten years. Go look it up .

moon2

listermint wrote: »

Actually not true . The us army had to use as actually glue to seal up the usb ports on machines because foreign agencies were leaving usb drives in car parks and folks were picking them up with an oooo free usb

This is within the last ten years. Go look it up .

There have been exploits in the USB stack before which allowed people to gain access to devices even though windows had "locked down" usb. Having trouble finding a link to the event now though.

Physically removing the usb ports in the first place would be the safest option. Glue is the next best I suppose. Relying on your operating system to *not* load a driver is awful security, but still better than nothing.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

The Washington event on January 6th sounds more like exploiting an opportunity to stoke violence in tandem with the event going on in the Senate. Going by this tweet which is light on detail:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1343328708963299338

You weren't wrong

L1011

moon2 wrote: »

There have been exploits in the USB stack before which allowed people to gain access to devices even though windows had "locked down" usb. Having trouble finding a link to the event now though.

Physically removing the usb ports in the first place would be the safest option. Glue is the next best I suppose. Relying on your operating system to *not* load a driver is awful security, but still better than nothing.

Nuking out the USB bus controller drivers entirely from the image can end up killing internal networking, bluetooth, serial ports (and I've even once seen the sound card ridiculously) on small form factor PCs (where they don't have those functions on-board but do have them in-case) these days so that option's gone.

prawnsambo

listermint wrote: »

Actually not true . The us army had to use as actually glue to seal up the usb ports on machines because foreign agencies were leaving usb drives in car parks and folks were picking them up with an oooo free usb

This is within the last ten years. Go look it up .

No idea what system they were using, but Windows Server and workstation has group policies that lock down USB ports on logon. And that's been since Windows 2000 iirc. Which was released in late 2000. So unless the US Army were using something else, didn't set that policy or (stupidly) had everyone set as admins, there's no need to glue USB ports. At all.

I can't find anything that would suggest this is nothing more than apocryphal. It's trivial to set a group policy on machines and even if you didn't have that ability (and you'd be some dumb-ass admin who couldn't) it's equally trivial to just remove the damn things (they have leads connecting them to the mainboard) and disable them in the BIOS as well. And lock that down with an admin password too. This is security 101 stuff.

Manic Moran

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Legally Pence would need to invoke article 25 of the constitution (declaring trump unfit with backing from cabinet or Congress) to call in the national guard.

I believe technically the secretary of defence issued the orders to the national guard in consultation with Pence. Many sources suggested it was in consultation with McConnell and Pelosi as well which was taken by some as an implication that Pence was to act with Congress to invoke article 25.

If Pence issued the order it would be treasonous. If sec def issued the order it would be him doing his job.

Pretty close.

SecDef is the approval authority for federal-funded activation of the National Guard, be it a State's or DC's. In DC's case, he's the only approval authority for any form of activation. Of course, the President can order him to activate units.

The VP is not in the chain of command of any field force and has no authority to issue orders to troops in the field. Neither, for the sake of completeness, is General Milley (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) or the Chief of Staff of the Army (Which is a bit different to most armies).

The DC Guard chain goes from the AG Major General Walker through the Army Secretary to SecDef to President. In practice, General Walker's and Army Secretary's staff liase with the Mayor's Staff to receive taskings from the city subject to any constraints from the Secretaries.

In this case, the initial request from the Mayor was for just over 300 personnel, which was approved on Monday. Then after things got out of hand, the remainder of the DC Guard was activated.

The Virginia Guard also was requested to send help. This is under the Guard's Emergency Management Assistance Compact, of which DC is a signatory. Presumably this also was done under Title 32 provisions and required SecDef approval, though this is not legally required: The VA Guard could be activated by the Governor under State Active Duty provisions with a reimbursement out of the DC budget.

The VP's input was not required for any of this to happen. It really was just 'consultation'.

moon2

prawnsambo wrote: »

it's equally trivial to just remove the damn things (they have leads connecting them to the mainboard).

If the usb ports and internal controller are powered in any way then your security is entirely dependent on the firmware in the usb controller not having any viable exploits.

Relying on the bios or your OS is better than nothing, but it's insufficient.

It's a bit of a tangent though so I'll drop off this topic

prawnsambo

moon2 wrote: »

If the usb ports and internal controller are powered in any way then your security is entirely dependent on the firmware in the usb controller not having any viable exploits.

Relying on the bios or your OS is better than nothing, but it's insufficient.

It's a bit of a tangent though so I'll drop off this topic

Yeah. But glue? They are standard connectors, you could just pop a new one in. I'd be happier with the multi-layer of BIOS disabled, group policy enacted security than a blob of glue that can be bypassed with a €5 fix.

Anyway, this sort of thing would be beyond a bunch of yahoos with very little time and no knowledge of what security was in place. They certainly wouldn't have been able to just stick a USB key in and have at it.

abff

Just listening to a discussion about yesterday on Joe Duffy. It included someone from Doonbeg who expressed great admiration for Trump. I had to stop myself from shouting at the radio, but I won’t voice my opinion of that gentleman from Doonbeg as I don’t want to be banned from Boards.

Tchaikovsky

Have the Trumps paid the pub tab in Doonbeg from 2019 yet?

Tchaikovsky

The woman killed yesterday has been named as Ashli Babbitt, a 14-year veteran of the US air force. Seemed to have got sucked into the conspiracy hole that is Trumpism.