Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

paul71

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

You know what? I've been brewing on this for a while, and I'd hoped that humanity would never come to this, but we can't be trusted with truly free speech.

Social media, and indeed any website that purports to support 'balanced' debate needs to consider the worth of giving extremist views airtime. It's enabled groups to brainwash and to radicalise regular people into performing abhorrent acts of both thought and violence.

As a technologist myself, I'm appalled at the craft I love being turned into such harmful vectors into people's humanity.

The is the failure to distinguish Liberty and License.

It really is not a recent concern, license is what extremists seek, be they extreme right, extreme left, or extreme libertarian. They wish to be able to say whatever they wish without regard to truth or consequence.

Freedom of speech or liberty is allowing someone to express an opinion or make an argument but hold that person responsible for harm they do as a result.

Christy42

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

You know what? I've been brewing on this for a while, and I'd hoped that humanity would never come to this, but we can't be trusted with truly free speech.

Social media, and indeed any website that purports to support 'balanced' debate needs to consider the worth of giving extremist views airtime. It's enabled groups to brainwash and to radicalise regular people into performing abhorrent acts of both thought and violence.

As a technologist myself, I'm appalled at the craft I love being turned into such harmful vectors into people's humanity.

We have never had completely free speech in any country. A mob boss asking an underling to take care of someone would be held accountable for the resulting death. Though I feel we have seen plenty who would argue that the mob boss only meant for the the snitch to be brought some soup, break and milk to ensure they had food.

EltonJohn69

Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »

You know what? I've been brewing on this for a while, and I'd hoped that humanity would never come to this, but we can't be trusted with truly free speech.

Social media, and indeed any website that purports to support 'balanced' debate needs to consider the worth of giving extremist views airtime. It's enabled groups to brainwash and to radicalise regular people into performing abhorrent acts of both thought and violence.

As a technologist myself, I'm appalled at the craft I love being turned into such harmful vectors into people's humanity.

Cancel the internet, try again in a thousand years.

aloyisious

Shelga wrote: »

I’m seeing reports that a policeman injured in the carnage yesterday has died. RIP.

CNN is reporting a CPD officers death, no name.

StringerBell

I read he's conceded the election at long last, there must have been absolute carnage in the last 24 hours, and I mean on a personal level to him as that's all he cares about.

Wonder how his supporters feel

BonnieSituation

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Have the Trumps paid the pub tab in Doonbeg from 2019 yet?

aloyisious wrote: »

A start could be made by identifying the candidate to the party, and not the other way around, as Trump did with expertise. I agree with you, he was able to hijack the GOP, with the help of Cruz, Graham and other GOP senators who did regular flips for him at vital moments for him. That party will have to go in for a deep post-mortem of what went wrong with their internal party rules.

He was also assisted by the legal eagles within Washington, incl two Attorneys General, who chose to give him the benefit of their doubt whenever he engaged in questionable legal activities. Remove their ability to do so again.

He didn't waste his time on TV shows honing skills playing others against each other all those years before playing on the national and world front.

“I believe that the president has learned from this case... will be much more cautious in the future... The president has been impeached. That’s a pretty big lesson.”- Susan Collins

Every GOPer needs to be reminded and hauled over coals for every utterance and incidence of enablement including the likes of Collins and Murkowski.

But Hawley and Cruz need a good smack around the head after yesterday. That Hawley hadn't an ounce of contrition after what transpired shows what he's really made of.

kyote00

Something very odd about that video ..... his facial and mouth movement are not natural

It looks like a 'deep fake'

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He's back, with a mealy mouthed speech, obviously has been told to stay on script.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347334804052844550?s=09

kowloon

Hurrache wrote: »

It's not doxing.

You know what I meant, being outed, identified, whatever.

aloyisious

BonnieSituation wrote: »

“I believe that the president has learned from this case... will be much more cautious in the future... The president has been impeached. That’s a pretty big lesson.”- Susan Collins

Every GOPer needs to be reminded and hauled over coals for every utterance and incidence of enablement including the likes of Collins and Murkowski.

But Hawley and Cruz need a good smack around the head after yesterday. That Hawley hadn't an ounce of contrition after what transpired shows what he's really made of.

Murkowski's position changed again on the night of the riot.

dogbert27

I think the first thing the GOP need to do to distance themselves from Trump is to drop the MAGA slogan. It's no longer a Republican slogan but a Trumpism.

And again everyone is focussing on what happened at the Capitol and only talking about that as to why Trump should be impeached but they should still be talking about the Trump tape from last Sunday when he blatantly tried to rig the election results in his own favour.

And nobody is talking anymore about how he has not done one thing about Covid since the elections as it runs rampant under his administration.

Detritus70

The question why a moderate sized mob could get inside the Capitol and might it have something to do with the fact that this was a white, right-wing crowd can be answered with a definite "Yes!".
And the makeup of the crowd also indicates that America's security forces are rotten with right-wingers.
Anyone who denies there is systematic racism in American law enforcement is a fool or complicit.
I don't think the US should defund the police, but they should do a complete slash and burn, retrain anyone they keep and invest heavily in training recruits properly. And maybe not hire assholes in the first place.

But Capitol Police are now facing a reckoning after appearing to feed the rioters’ perception that they would not be severely punished for their behavior, as one congressional staffer said — videos have circulated online appearing to show a Capitol police officer taking selfies with the protesters, and some Metro D.C. police officers were seen chatting and joking around with protesters who had breached the perimeter.
“The fact is that it’s explicitly because they were white dudes with the support of the president that law enforcement basically did nothing,” the staffer said.

One current Metro D.C. police officer said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the building. “If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms,” the officer wrote.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/capitol-hill-riots-doj-456178

Midlife

That statement from Trump is unlike anything he's ever said.

No way did he just decide to come out and say that himself. I mean there was only 1 lie in it.

I'd say Mitch has told him 'read this and then go away or we'll vote to impeach you in the next 2 weeks'.

looksee

kyote00 wrote: »

Something very odd about that video ..... his facial and mouth movement are not natural

It looks like a 'deep fake'

The only thing fake about it to me was the fluency with which he spoke. He seemed to be speaking too quickly to be reading an autocue, but he didn't repeat himself or stumble or ramble.

That way he has of simultaneously swallowing the end of a word while drawing out the final syllable is something he does when he is lying or obfuscating. He is under the impression that the open-mouthed little flat whine 'note of piety' that he uses makes him sound sincere, but its a significant tell.

He did stick to the script - until the last couple of sentences, when he could not resist the 'this is only the beginning' threat.

beggars_bush

Has he single handedly destroyed the republican party?

StringerBell

kyote00 wrote: »

Something very odd about that video ..... his facial and mouth movement are not natural

It looks like a 'deep fake'

Of course, that will be how a lot of his supporters will respond to that video, it wasn't him it was faked. Can't believe I didn't cop that straight away! Face reality or dive further down the rabbit hole, the choice is all too clear sadly.

StringerBell

beggars_bush wrote: »

Has he single handedly destroyed the republican party?

No, it isn't exactly destroyed but whatever damage has been done to it has been done by plenty more people than trump.

McConnell, Pence, McCarthy, Ryan, Graham, Paul, Hawley, Cruz, Gaetz, Sessions, Jordan, Goehmer, Collins etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc have played their part, some of them more so than others and hopefully they are remembered.

Hawley has ensured he will anyway when even after that disgrace the other day he didn't back off his lying position he merely softened it.

Carfacemandog

Detritus70 wrote: »

The question why a moderate sized mob could get inside the Capitol and might it have something to do with the fact that this was a white, right-wing crowd can be answered with a definite "Yes!".
And the makeup of the crowd also indicates that America's security forces are rotten with right-wingers.
Anyone who denies there is systematic racism in American law enforcement is a fool or complicit.

Police actively encouraging people to storm the Capitol.

And then of course, taking selfies with the terrorists during the event:

All of this happened less than 2 miles from where the very same police forces gassed members of the clergy for peacefully protesting outside their own church.

prawnsambo

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Police actively encouraging people to storm the Capitol.

And then of course, taking selfies with the terrorists during the event:

All of this happened less than 2 miles from where the very same police forces gassed members of the clergy for peacefully protesting outside their own church.

I'd be wary about that video of the Capitol policeman. The lack of context is problematic to my mind. To be clear, we don't know what time it was taken (and remember there was a rally before the Capitol was attacked) or where exactly. Or even if it was on the same day. Too many questions to be getting excited about it. Yet.

breezy1985

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'd be wary about that video of the Capitol policeman. The lack of context is problematic to my mind. To be clear, we don't know what time it was taken (and remember there was a rally before the Capitol was attacked) or where exactly. Or even if it was on the same day. Too many questions to be getting excited about it. Yet.

He could be calling other cops to fall back in fairness.

breezy1985

Detritus70 wrote: »

The question why a moderate sized mob could get inside the Capitol and might it have something to do with the fact that this was a white, right-wing crowd can be answered with a definite "Yes!".
And the makeup of the crowd also indicates that America's security forces are rotten with right-wingers.
Anyone who denies there is systematic racism in American law enforcement is a fool or complicit.
I don't think the US should defund the police, but they should do a complete slash and burn, retrain anyone they keep and invest heavily in training recruits properly. And maybe not hire assholes in the first place.

Around the world police forces and armies just seem to attract mostly right wing people. The job seems to be really appealing to them while at the same time all that uniformed unquestioning discipline keeps left leaning people away

Blowfish

Midlife wrote: »

That statement from Trump is unlike anything he's ever said.

No way did he just decide to come out and say that himself. I mean there was only 1 lie in it.

I'd say Mitch has told him 'read this and then go away or we'll vote to impeach you in the next 2 weeks'.

It's possible alright it was Mitch/Pence that drove it, but if you listen to how carefully crafted it was, it comes across to me though much more like it was his lawyers who essentially told him he has a not insignificant chance of ending up in jail unless he walks this situation back.


In particular his statements of condemnation of the riot, plus explicitly stating about the 'smooth orderly and seemless transition of power' absolutely sounds like lawyers trying to walk him back from incitement charges. In addition, you can easily imagine Trump wanting to include that the election was stolen from him, with lawyers shooting it down and instead compromising on allowing him to say things like 'we pursued every legal avenue to contest the results', 'my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote' and 'I continue to believe that we must reform our election laws' in order to portray it as nothing more than standard legal challenges rather than his usual claims.

Quin_Dub

Blowfish wrote: »

It's possible alright it was Mitch/Pence that drove it, but if you listen to how carefully crafted it was, it comes across to me though much more like it was his lawyers who essentially told him he has a not insignificant chance of ending up in jail unless he walks this situation back.


In particular his statements of condemnation of the riot, plus explicitly stating about the 'smooth orderly and seemless transition of power' absolutely sounds like lawyers trying to walk him back from incitement charges. In addition, you can easily imagine Trump wanting to include that the election was stolen from him, with lawyers shooting it down and instead compromising on allowing him to say things like 'we pursued every legal avenue to contest the results', 'my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote' and 'I continue to believe that we must reform our election laws' in order to portray it as nothing more than standard legal challenges rather than his usual claims.

Agreed , that statement had lawyerly ass covering all over it.

He is in genuine legal peril here - the Pardon rules explicitly exclude Treason , Sedition, Insurrection etc. so if they decided to go after him on it he couldn't pardon his way out.

dogbert27

I don't think Mitch or Pence wrote this seeing as he stole credit from Pence saying it was he who ordered the National Guard to restore order

ECO_Mental

Just seeing that all these people that stormed the Capitol building could be charged under the executive order the Trump signed a few months ago where anybody damaging Federal buildings or monuments get 10 years.....or the irony is so sweet:P

That law was only meant for those pesky black people and libertards!

Dohnjoe

The silence from Boards Trump supporters over the last weeks is deafening

duploelabs

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The silence from Boards Trump supporters over the last weeks is deafening

They're in the AF IMHO forums here, i doubt their standard of posting would pass here so that's why I would say they're absent

CrabRevolution

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Just seeing that all these people that stormed the Capitol building could be charged under the executive order the Trump signed a few months ago where anybody damaging Federal buildings or monuments get 10 years.....or the irony is so sweet:P

That law was only meant for those pesky black people and libertards!

Sounds like Willie Frazer's claims in NI that laws about hate speech and inciting violence were only meant for muslims, not good protestants like himself.

aloyisious

Midlife wrote: »

That statement from Trump is unlike anything he's ever said.

No way did he just decide to come out and say that himself. I mean there was only 1 lie in it.

I'd say Mitch has told him 'read this and then go away or we'll vote to impeach you in the next 2 weeks'.

Probably, alongside his hearing the call for his arrest & his son and his lawyer on charges of sedition and some-one getting it into his skull that the three of them really would spend time in a police cell without bail. No Rudy to ride up to get him out on bail as he's beside him in the cell. It has to be the end of Rudy's career as a lawyer, except as his own defence lawyer.

FreudianSlippers

StringerBell wrote: »

No, it isn't exactly destroyed but whatever damage has been done to it has been done by plenty more people than trump.

McConnell, Pence, McCarthy, Ryan, Graham, Paul, Hawley, Cruz, Gaetz, Sessions, Jordan, Goehmer, Collins etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc have played their part, some of them more so than others and hopefully they are remembered.

Hawley has ensured he will anyway when even after that disgrace the other day he didn't back off his lying position he merely softened it.

A few Republican Reps were on CNN and other media the last few days saying that Trumpism (not just specifically Trump, but his enablers) has done long-term damage to the Republican party. That kind of wording would suggest the internal rift is much larger than it appears from their behaviour the last 4 years.

FreudianSlippers

dogbert27 wrote: »

I don't think Mitch or Pence wrote this seeing as he stole credit from Pence saying it was he who ordered the National Guard to restore order

I doubt Pence cares that much with 12 days to go... at this point Pence has done all he can in the last few weeks to do damage control, but he may even know a run at 2024 is just a non-starter after the events of the last few days.