Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

And the money is drying up unless the GOP change course.

They have one person and one alone to blame for the defunding move against them, the sitting RINO President.

josip

aloyisious wrote: »

They have one person and one alone to blame for the defunding move against them, the sitting RINO President.

I blame McConnell more than Trump.
McConnell was an odious human being, long before Trump arrived on the scene.
I know others here have apportioned blame to Gingrich et al before McConnell, but at least in the McConnell vs Trump debate, it's clear cut for me who is the worst.

listermint

josip wrote: »

I blame McConnell more than Trump.
McConnell was an odious human being, long before Trump arrived on the scene.
I know others here have apportioned blame to Gingrich et al before McConnell, but at least in the McConnell vs Trump debate, it's clear cut for me who is the worst.

Of course it's McConnell. He's an extremely smart odious individual. He can smell the air.

BonnieSituation

Extreme right-winger, Ali Alexander says that Mo Brooks, Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs helped with organising with the protest last week. I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg as to who was involved.

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/11/capitol-plot-andy-biggs-paul-gosar/

briany

briany wrote: »

He's been vilified quite a bit during this whole saga, but that's a move that would go some way toward redemption.

If he actually follows through, talk is cheap.

BonnieSituation

Liz Cheney is going to vote to impeach! Oof.

briany

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Liz Cheney is going to vote to impeach! Oof.

Trump criticised her last week, as I recall. I'm not saying that's the reason she's voting to impeach him, but, hey, it can't hurt for Trump to mouth off at his party a little more and sow more potential resentment. It's not like he can resist opening his trap at the best of times.

marno21

Big call from Liz Cheney. Wyoming was the state that Trump won by the biggest margin in 2020. She’s opening herself to primary by some nut job in 2022 now. Wyoming’s newly elected Senator, Cynthia Lummis objected to Pennsylvnania’s electoral vote.

This impeachment will split the GOP into:

1. Those who have been making the most of the last 4 years to get GOP stuff done, while keeping quiet about Trump for fear of tweet rage, primary or out of necessity to pass stuff (Toomey etc)
2. The real hardcore far right crowd (Jordan, Gaetz, Brooks, Nunes and co).

The lifecycle of the House means that more of Group 2 are in there. The long Senate terms means that Group 2 hasn’t started to infiltrate yet, but there is evidence of that changing with Tuberville, Marshall coming in.

Itssoeasy

You’d have to assume the move from liz Cheney and the talk about Mitch McConnell and the fact it’s a free vote from the GOP is part of a calculated risk by some in the GOP leadership that a vast majority of the 71 million that voted for trump are more republican voters than trump voters and by removing trump they break the infection and live to fight another day. Obviously, there’s a big bit of self preservation involved but the carry on last Wednesday is not about democratic or republican because from what I’ve watched and read the US capitol is sacred ground and from polls Americans aren’t happy with it.

Itssoeasy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Extreme right-winger, Ali Alexander says that Mo Brooks, Paul Gosar and Andy Biggs helped with organising with the protest last week. I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg as to who was involved.

https://theintercept.com/2021/01/11/capitol-plot-andy-biggs-paul-gosar/

I can see the people arrested singing like a welsh choir if it’ll save themselves.

froog

cheny and mitch on board. it's a question of courage now (using the term very loosely). everyone bar the real fringe GOP swamp people know trump should be impeached so it's a question of how scared are they of trump's base and does it outweigh the fear they have of how they will remembered in history.

listermint

Itssoeasy wrote: »

You’d have to assume the move from liz Cheney and the talk about Mitch McConnell and the fact it’s a free vote from the GOP is part of a calculated risk by some in the GOP leadership that a vast majority of the 71 million that voted for trump are more republican voters than trump voters and by removing trump they break the infection and live to fight another day. Obviously, there’s a big bit of self preservation involved but the carry on last Wednesday is not about democratic or republican because from what I’ve watched and read the US capitol is sacred ground and from polls Americans aren’t happy with it.

Poisoned limb syndrome.

Attempts are being made to cut it off before it gets to the heart.

briany

briany wrote: »

Trump criticised her last week, as I recall. I'm not saying that's the reason she's voting to impeach him, but, hey, it can't hurt for Trump to mouth off at his party a little more and sow more potential resentment. It's not like he can resist opening his trap at the best of times.

You are correct in that he just can't shut his mouth, that's a well established fact and as the saying goes many a man's nose was broken by their mouth. But plenty that he's insulted personally or their family, like Cruz's are still holding out strong for dear leader at least in public.
It'll be interesting to see what transpires in relation to the actual vote and trial.

froog

on another note, qanon hasn't posted since sometime in early december. i would imagine the FBI are looking for him right now and would love to get the various people controlling that sludge pipe. shouldn't be too hard, the sites he/they post on wouldn't exactly be hugely secure.

VinLieger

froog wrote: »

on another note, qanon hasn't posted since sometime in early december. i would imagine the FBI are looking for him right now and would love to get the various people controlling that sludge pipe. shouldn't be too hard, the sites he/they post on wouldn't exactly be hugely secure.

Its pretty much been agreed upon by journalists and the original creator of 8chan that its a guy called Jim Watkins who lives in the Philippines

Reply all has a great episode on it
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm

Gbear

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It will also deepen the GOP split. Excellent.

They surely now see what the wages of their sins are. Losing all 3 branches, losing presidential incumbency and, oh yeah, nearly getting a bunch of them murdered.

The House is one thing - you get all kinds of certifiably insane people turning up there, but the Senate cannot function for Republicans if it plunges deeper into insanity. It's revealing that only 6 senate Republicans are going down with the ship, while about half of the House reps are.

Ripping off the plaster now may allow a degree of distance by the time 2022 rolls around, and prevent any backlash from causing them damage.
Long term, this sounds like a surer bet then continuing to ride the demented fascist tiger they've been on for the last 5 years.

The Republican base can probably be finessed into solid over-representation of Republican elected officials with abortion, veiled racism and hysteria about communism, without drifting into violent fascist terrorism.

I was listening to a clip of one of the Nazis who turned up to the rally, Nick Fuentes. It was initially thought he was inside with fellow Nazi, Baked Alaska, but it seems that he just looked like a guy there. He was giving a speech down the road at the time, and to paraphrase, "The Democrats are our enemy, but enemies are not as bad as"... waits for the crowd to join him ... "TRAITORS!".

Republicans will have heard of sentiments like that, or the chants to hang Mike Pence. Ultimately, as alien as their self-serving motivations appear at times, like everyone else, they want a quiet life. Moderate Republicans are in at least as much danger as Democrats if and when the radicalised base decide that they can make more headway by targeted kidnapping of or murdering individual politicians they see as impure, than they can with voting.

froog

VinLieger wrote: »

Its pretty much been agreed upon by journalists and the original creator of 8chan that its a guy called Jim Watkins who lives in the Philippines

Reply all has a great episode on it
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/llhe5nm

i reckon the original qanon was some random troll on 4chan having ****s and giggles and at some point a group of people managed to take control of the account and it snowballed from there. i've heard of that guy in relation to it alright.

froog

froog wrote: »

on another note, qanon hasn't posted since sometime in early december. i would imagine the FBI are looking for him right now and would love to get the various people controlling that sludge pipe. shouldn't be too hard, the sites he/they post on wouldn't exactly be hugely secure.

Depends on a number of factors but shouldn't be to difficult for the FBI to hack them or get help from the NSA.

From reading some of the security and hacker discussion boards I browse, the Parler grab was made possible by twilio announcing what services they were ceasing to provide and due to the lack of mfa, people were able to rest the password for admin accounts, therefore take control of them and create additional ones.

The fact that the owners didn't code their site correctly and were still holding deleted posts, not striping geo location information from uploaded user content is just icing on the cake.

Before that I did see claims that some hackers were able to post malicious links and dupe Parler users into clicking on them. By doing so they allowed access to their devices, and there was some discussion on sending anonymous tips to the likes of the FBI based on what they were finding on those devices.

aloyisious

froog wrote: »

cheny and mitch on board. it's a question of courage now (using the term very loosely). everyone bar the real fringe GOP swamp people know trump should be impeached so it's a question of how scared are they of trump's base and does it outweigh the fear they have of how they will remembered in history.

I'd like to hope that the attack on them and the Capitol would be the breaking point for wavering GOP senators and congresspersons but won't put too much faith in them seeing and acknowledging the truth of what lies behind Trump displayed last Wednesday - pure self interest is Trump's lesson and legacy.

If there is a successful case proven by vote in the Capitol on the impeachment charge, then the next step will be to sever any remnants of Trump-ism with and in Congress. Those who were the victims of the attack on congress should be reminded by the prosecution of that fact when the vote is taken in congress for the move of the impeachment charge and in the Senate hearing of the case against Trump as the instigator of that attack.

Rjd2

Itssoeasy wrote: »

You’d have to assume the move from liz Cheney and the talk about Mitch McConnell and the fact it’s a free vote from the GOP is part of a calculated risk by some in the GOP leadership that a vast majority of the 71 million that voted for trump are more republican voters than trump voters and by removing trump they break the infection and live to fight another day. Obviously, there’s a big bit of self preservation involved but the carry on last Wednesday is not about democratic or republican because from what I’ve watched and read the US capitol is sacred ground and from polls Americans aren’t happy with it.

If turning to Liz Cheaney in 2021 is the masterplan for the GOP to survive, I wish them all the luck in the world they shall need it.

Mitch is still fuming he lost the senate simple as that. He doesn't fear a primary because this will be his last term, he is 78 and not in the best of health allegedly.

I don't know from a pure policy POV if it is a good idea (morally it is obviously) but maybe they feel after Trump getting booted of every platform he won't have a microphone to cause much damage. He also has lost a lot of wealthy GOP donors who are fleeing for the hills as their is no benefit to tolerating anymore and obviously Adelson passed away another Trump ally.

StringerBell

briany wrote: »

He's been vilified quite a bit during this whole saga, but that's a move that would go some way toward redemption.

Well, no it wouldn't really tbf but it would be a welcome move though I wouldn't believe it, probably struggle to believe my eyes if I saw it in fact.

Mitch is excellent at what he does, repugnant as it is to me and if there is truth to it then the gig is truly up for trump and his offspring too. The political accounting has been done and maybe, just maybe the penny has dropped that even if they piss his base off and they stay really angry for the next 3 years, who else are they gonna vote for other than GOP?

Rjd2

StringerBell wrote: »

Well, no it wouldn't really tbf but it would be a welcome move though I wouldn't believe it, probably struggle to believe my eyes if I saw it in fact.

Mitch is excellent at what he does, repugnant as it is to me and if there is truth to it then the gig is truly up for trump and his offspring too. The political accounting has been done and maybe, just maybe the penny has dropped that even if they piss his base off and they stay really angry for the next 3 years, who else are they gonna vote for other than GOP?

Need to find a bridge somewhat to the Trumpers.

I don't mean the loons who think Bill Gates is trying to control them, but some who initially voted for Trump. Those who wanted to rebuke the swamp mentality that has taken over the GOP and the zealots utterly obsessed with the free market on steroids.


You seen an example last week where the GOP establishment looked at the stimulus cheques and immediate fear was some of the money may go to people who may not need it.

Shelga

Rjd2 wrote: »

Need to find a bridge somewhat to the Trumpers.

I don't mean the loons who think Bill Gates is trying to control them, but some who initially voted for Trump. Those who wanted to rebuke the swamp mentality that has taken over the GOP and the zealots utterly obsessed with the free market on steroids.


You seen an example last week where the GOP establishment looked at the stimulus cheques and immediate fear was some of the money may go to people who may not need it.

Are they giving $2000 to anyone who earns under $75k? Even if your job has been unaffected?! That can’t be right...

StringerBell

I'd be confident internal polling has been carried out over the week and that the vast, vast majority of GOP voters are turned off by the scenes at the Capitol building. You have a loud fringe, and in all honesty a large fringe but a fringe element they are that has been thrust into the mainstream and amplified for years. Then you have corporate America feeling the pressure and talk of funding being pulled, plenty of reason to throw the goon under the train at this stage and bar him from ever running again to boot ensuring the end of him as a viable candidate. They have a number of years to work on a message to get the party behind, mainly hey we aint the Dems will do. Mitch has always thought long term and the GOP are not in a terrible position to rebuild from, certainly better than 06.

Quin_Dub

Shelga wrote: »

Are they giving $2000 to anyone who earns under $75k? Even if your job has been unaffected?! That can’t be right...

Yep, everybody got money.

Jesus - You didn't expect the GOP to approve giving unemployed people more money did you???

"They'd never go back to work!!!"

Capt'n Midnight

aloyisious wrote: »

I don't know how much of a link DB has with the German state but the U.S insurrection bid must have brought back memories to Germans of their past history of putsches.

Yes. Very much so.

"Without democracy in the US, [there is] no democracy in Europe," - German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas

theguzman

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Yep, everybody got money.

Jesus - You didn't expect the GOP to approve giving unemployed people more money did you???

"They'd never go back to work!!!"

Trump wants to give out the $2000 cheques, the Senate wouldn't agree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/30/stimulus-checks-2000-dollars/

Just one week ago, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said that a Democratic proposal to approve the larger payments had “no realistic path to quickly pass the Senate,” even as President Trump insisted on $2,000 payments and nearly derailed a $900 billion stimulus package over those demands.

Quin_Dub

theguzman wrote: »

Trump wants to give out the $2000 cheques, the Senate wouldn't agree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/30/stimulus-checks-2000-dollars/

He really really doesn't , that was exclusively done to piss off McConnell as he wasn't "doing enough" to steal the election for him.

Trump ONLY thinks about himself..

He absolutely despises the majority of people that voted for him - they are serfs in his Empire fever dream.

Once they are no longer potential voters and or donors to his slush-funds he has no use for them.

Rjd2

Said it at the time and matain the stance Trump could have won if he went big last few months before the election regarding stimulus with so many countries have done to lessen the economic pain of covid.

Trump however because he is very clever surrounded himself by hardcore libertarian fundamentalists who told him that would backfire in the election because as everyone knows fiscal conservatism is all that the masses are talking about regarding covid.:P

Rjd2

Considering it from a purely political POV impeach Trump.

What's the point of playing nice with him? He is going to **** around in 2022 and 2024 regardless so try to somewhat neutralise him now when he is at his weakest without his microphone.