Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

spacecoyote

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not much about the 4 executive orders in the media.

Insulin cost reduced by 66% for some. EpiPen cost reductions. Retailers being forced to pass on price savings to consumers.
Many others.
Making crucial health care medicines and products cheaper for all Americans young and old.

You will see articles about Trump eating fast food or how he drinks from a water bottle though.

Media is pathetic

Doesn't an executive order really do nothing though and still needs to go through channels to be enforced?

Also, while it's good it's hardly something to rave about by reducing costs of some medications.

If they brought in a proper universal healthcare system a lot of those meds would be free.

I'm a diabetic and pay nothing for any of my medication unless I want to get some very fancy upgraded version of some of the kit.

Diabetics cant live without insulin, and for type 1 diabetics they've got it because of pure genetic reasons. A great executive order would be to make insulin free for type 1 diabetics, and do some sort of deal on the type 2 that might encouraged some lifestyle changes and help get Americans a bit fitter

ExMachina1000

spacecoyote wrote: »

Doesn't an executive order really do nothing though and still needs to go through channels to be enforced?

Also, while it's good it's hardly something to rave about by reducing costs of some medications.

If they brought in a proper universal healthcare system a lot of those meds would be free.

I'm a diabetic and pay nothing for any of my medication unless I want to get some very fancy upgraded version of some of the kit.

Diabetics cant live without insulin, and for type 1 diabetics they've got it because of pure genetic reasons. A great executive order would be to make insulin free for type 1 diabetics, and do some sort of deal on the type 2 that might encouraged some lifestyle changes and help get Americans a bit fitter

Theres the problem. A step in the right direction is never enough for some. I want it all free. Anything less doesn't deserve a mention.

If it was anyone other than Trump it would be mentioned in media. We all know it

relax carry on

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not much about the 4 executive orders in the media.

Insulin cost reduced by 66% for some. EpiPen cost reductions. Retailers being forced to pass on price savings to consumers.
Many others.
Making crucial health care medicines and products cheaper for all Americans young and old.

You will see articles about Trump eating fast food or how he drinks from a water bottle though.

Media is pathetic

How come it always has to be Executive orders with Trump? Is he not the great deal maker? Where are his long lasting great deals for the American people with support from Republicans and Democrats that should be his legacy? All we have are photo ops and the illusion of doing something vaguely presidential.

StringerBell

Which media?

I've seen it in the media, I've also seen it on here by you I believe last night. The same stuff brought up by both the media, and by posters responding to you last night?

And again this morning looking at the last couple of responses.

ExMachina1000

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why it taken him 4 years? Why he not back Democrats with same bill years ago? And why now that he's lowest in polls?

This is great for American citizens. Lower medicinal costs.

At the end of the day people who need certain treatments will be able to do so cheaper and others may not find themselves going into debt over essentials for their quality of life.

Everything else is just deflection from outsiders and those looking to complain because its Trump.

fullstop

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

This is great for American citizens. Lower medicinal costs.

At the end of the day people who need certain treatments will be able to do so cheaper and others may not find themselves going into debt over essentials for their quality of life.

Everything else is just deflection from outsiders and those looking to complain because its Trump.

For someone who claims not to be a Trump supporter, you seem to get awfully upset on his behalf quite a lot.

ExMachina1000

fullstop wrote: »

For someone who claims not to be a Trump supporter, you seem to get awfully upset on his behalf quite a lot.

Is it or is it not good for American citizens?

fullstop

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is it or is it not good for American citizens?

At the moment, no. It’s just an EO, and he could have done it years ago as others have pointed out. Same old ****e from Trump, optics ans nothing else cause he’s getting hammered and blinkered supporters like yourself lap it up.

Professor Moriarty

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is it or is it not good for American citizens?

It is. Is it not tens of thousands of lives too late?

ExMachina1000

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It is. Is it not tens of thousands of lives too late?

Any positive decision made by any government on the planet will always have some lad in the corner saying it should have been done years ago.
Its not really an argument . It's not real life.

But remember Biden served two terms as vice president. When he becomes president any and all of his orders or acts will be met with it should have been done years ago or why didn't he do it already. Seems fair

ExMachina1000

fullstop wrote: »

At the moment, no. It’s just an EO, and he could have done it years ago as others have pointed out. Same old ****e from Trump, optics ans nothing else cause he’s getting hammered and blinkered supporters like yourself lap it up.

I'm supporting Kanye. Who are you supporting?

dinorebel

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not much about the 4 executive orders in the media.

Insulin cost reduced by 66% for some. EpiPen cost reductions. Retailers being forced to pass on price savings to consumers.
Many others.
Making crucial health care medicines and products cheaper for all Americans young and old.

You will see articles about Trump eating fast food or how he drinks from a water bottle though.

Media is pathetic

Because it's a wish list executive orders are meaningless Warren has legislation on drug prices ready to go but the Republicans refuse to vote on it.

ExMachina1000

relax carry on wrote: »

Yes and they get to implement their plans by agreement and bring in legislation to give their plans reality. How does a Trump Executive order photo op from the great deal maker himself, translate into agreement and legislation for his plans?

Governments do not enact opposition plans. That's reality.

ArmaniJeanss

Leroy42 wrote: »

Getting a bit ahead of yourselves. No charges have been brought, never mind found against him. The likelihood is he will be allowed off without any fuss. The last thing anybody will want is to be dealing with Trump cases for years. It will only end of badly for the US no matter what the outcome.

If Biden wins, he will be busy trying to deal with a pandemic, recession and trying to regain standing in the world.

The last thing they need is constant turmoil over an ex POTUS

Tend to agree with this.
I think it's generally problematic in any country if you enter a cycle of new government bringing previous charges against old government. Whilst the prospective charges against Trump may be slam-dunk, even the cleanest administration will have done 'something' that can be viewed as negligent or corrupt when examined in a particular way. So in 4 or 8 years the neo-Trumpists could do exactly the same to an outgoing Biden presidency.

If you get into a cycle of revenge, then eventually someone decides they may as well not bother doing a peaceful handover of power at all. Multiple examples of this in Africa or South America.

So probably best to let sleeping dogs lie if Trump loses in November and exits in the proper way.

MICKEYG

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Tend to agree with this.
I think it's generally problematic in any country if you enter a cycle of new government bringing previous charges against old government. Whilst the prospective charges against Trump may be slam-dunk, even the cleanest administration will have done 'something' that can be viewed as negligent or corrupt when examined in a particular way. So in 4 or 8 years the neo-Trumpists could do exactly the same to an outgoing Biden presidency.

If you get into a cycle of revenge, then eventually someone decides they may as well not bother doing a peaceful handover of power at all. Multiple examples of this in Africa or South America.

So probably best to let sleeping dogs lie if Trump loses in November and exits in the proper way,

If you have done something wrong and it is proven in court you deserve the punishment, revenge or not.
To not charge someone for political reasons would be far worse.

8mv

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not much about the 4 executive orders in the media....

It has been a significant part of RTE news bulletins all morning. Too mainstream?

ArmaniJeanss

MICKEYG wrote: »

If you have done something wrong and it is proven in court you deserve the punishment, revenge or not.
To not charge someone for political reasons would be far worse.

It's a reasonable point, and I'd be as annoyed as anyone at the thought of Trump getting off scot-free.
I just think its a dangerous path to go down, as surely it's reasonable to say that every administration has done something (often through temporary moments of gross incompetence) that has cost lives and money and then stupidly tried to cover it up. Even if ultimately it wouldn't lead to a conviction in court it could tie up the out-going administration in years of expensive court appearances.

It's a bad cycle to start imo. Though obviously if what earlier posters suggest does actually await Trump in particular (the volume of criminal cases), then there's little an incoming administration could do to stop it.

salmocab

8mv wrote: »

It has been a significant part of RTE news bulletins all morning. Too mainstream?

I wonder where ex machina heard about it in the first place. I’ve seen the media aren’t reporting things so many times on boards whilst they definitely are that it’s beyond ridiculous. It’s an argumentative stance at best and at worst it’s stupid and uninformed.

pixelburp

I presume when the "the media aren't reporting it!" argument is made generally, what is implied is that the media aren't reporting it with the editorial slant the user would prefer. And in this case apparently the slant should be more praiseworthy I guess? As if poor Trump can't catch a break for being a clock right once a day.

As said, it has been reported, albeit not in eye watering detail but then why would it? US politics is rarely dissected in UK or Irish media cos ultimately it's international news. And 3.5 years into a presidency of empty executive orders, the media are presumably wise to Trump's love of the empty gesture that he can show off a signed piece of paper. THAT he can do.

With both Houses in GOP majority Trump couldn't repeal the ACA so on health the horse has well and truly bolted. He had his chance to improve things greatly and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This EO is meaningless until enacted.

Carfacemandog

8mv wrote: »

It has been a significant part of RTE news bulletins all morning. Too mainstream?

All I can think is that they decided to give out about the media not covering it without actually even bothering to check if the media had covered it.

CNN - https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/24/politics/trump-drug-prices/index.html
NBC - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/no-new-law-curb-drug-costs-trump-tries-own-changes-n1234891
CBS - https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/president-trump-issues-4-executive-orders-to-cut-prescription-drug-costs/
NPR - https://www.npr.org/2020/07/24/895290378/trump-signs-executive-orders-on-drug-prices?t=1595676538203
PBS - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-trump-signs-executive-order-on-prescription-drug-prices
NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007255909/trump-executive-order-prescription-drugs.html
Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/24/trump-expected-sign-drug-pricing-executive-orders-friday-angering-pharma/

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm on a medication that would cost $20000 in the US, I get it every two months. So ya, he's done feck all.

Ditto, Type 1.5 diabetic and between that and some other issues I am on a range of meds that would cost @9k per month in the US.(list prices, before insurance deals, rebates and pharmacy matching)

As they are covered by the LTI here, no charge.
Even meds that aren't covered by the LTI are limited in the huge majority of cases to a maximum outlay per family of €124 per month.

I also receive free and quite involved specialist healthcare from a public Endocrinologist and diabetes support team.
This is in addition to my having private health insurance.

Let's take diabetes as an example.
In the US, people have died simply because they cannot afford insulin.
Dead, because the free market and laissez-faire attitude of government towards the health of their citizens sees healthcare as a privilege and not a right.

The US also has one of the highest rates of diabetic related complications.
Amputation, blindness and lots more.
Not solely because US = Fat!
But because healthcare is often far too expensive to access for routine care, small problems that can be dealt with by early intervention don't get any care until it's too late because of cost.

Signing an executive order that from a quick read is basically a front loaded rebate scheme?
Wages, transport, utilities, rent, food costs have already led to a situation whereby diabetics are already rationing their insulin.
Simply because the cost of living versus the median wage means that healthcare is a luxury.

Far greater action than collusion with pharma companies is needed.
It's a further illustration of the limitations of the US health care model.

Customers and consumers, not citizens.

frag420

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Tend to agree with this.
I think it's generally problematic in any country if you enter a cycle of new government bringing previous charges against old government. Whilst the prospective charges against Trump may be slam-dunk, even the cleanest administration will have done 'something' that can be viewed as negligent or corrupt when examined in a particular way. So in 4 or 8 years the neo-Trumpists could do exactly the same to an outgoing Biden presidency.

If you get into a cycle of revenge, then eventually someone decides they may as well not bother doing a peaceful handover of power at all. Multiple examples of this in Africa or South America.

So probably best to let sleeping dogs lie if Trump loses in November and exits in the proper way.

Trump will be dead in a few years, time to go after the offspring before they start getting any serious power!

Overheal

fullstop wrote: »

At the moment, no. It’s just an EO, and he could have done it years ago as others have pointed out. Same old ****e from Trump, optics ans nothing else cause he’s getting hammered and blinkered supporters like yourself lap it up.

And there’s no guarantee any of it works. Many of his most grandstanding executive orders have fallen flat, or took years to do anything. Like trying to undo DACA, ban people from majority Muslim countries, and yes even one he signed the other year requiring pharma commercials to display a drug MSRP was also shot down in the courts before it did anything. So it’s all of case of merely wanting to be seen to be doing something until any of these things he signed yesterday actually do something of benefit.

Overheal

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any positive decision made by any government on the planet will always have some lad in the corner saying it should have been done years ago.
Its not really an argument . It's not real life.

But remember Biden served two terms as vice president. When he becomes president any and all of his orders or acts will be met with it should have been done years ago or why didn't he do it already. Seems fair

That’s grand, because the American people know what party was in the congressional majority for 6 of 8 years of his presidency. And even in the minority they worked tirelessly to “make him a one term president”

salmocab wrote: »

I wonder where ex machina heard about it in the first place. I’ve seen the media aren’t reporting things so many times on boards whilst they definitely are that it’s beyond ridiculous. It’s an argumentative stance at best and at worst it’s stupid and uninformed.

It also hasn’t been a full news cycle yet.

Also kind of silly of Trump to schedule to do this on a Friday afternoon. Friday nights are usually when he tries to fire people etc. so fewer people will be paying notice.

pixelburp wrote: »

I presume when the "the media aren't reporting it!" argument is made generally, what is implied is that the media aren't reporting it with the editorial slant the user would prefer. And in this case apparently the slant should be more praiseworthy I guess? As if poor Trump can't catch a break for being a clock right once a day.

As said, it has been reported, albeit not in eye watering detail but then why would it? US politics is rarely dissected in UK or Irish media cos ultimately it's international news. And 3.5 years into a presidency of empty executive orders, the media are presumably wise to Trump's love of the empty gesture that he can show off a signed piece of paper. THAT he can do.

With both Houses in GOP majority Trump couldn't repeal the ACA so on health the horse has well and truly bolted. He had his chance to improve things greatly and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This EO is meaningless until enacted.

The favored line is something like ‘Trump wouldn’t get credit if he cured cancer’

The line always tickles me because Trump has actively pulled funding from cancer research.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

All I can think is that they decided to give out about the media not covering it without actually even bothering to check if the media had covered it.

CNN - https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/24/politics/trump-drug-prices/index.html
NBC - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/no-new-law-curb-drug-costs-trump-tries-own-changes-n1234891
CBS - https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/president-trump-issues-4-executive-orders-to-cut-prescription-drug-costs/
NPR - https://www.npr.org/2020/07/24/895290378/trump-signs-executive-orders-on-drug-prices?t=1595676538203
PBS - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-trump-signs-executive-order-on-prescription-drug-prices
NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007255909/trump-executive-order-prescription-drugs.html
Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/24/trump-expected-sign-drug-pricing-executive-orders-friday-angering-pharma/

Ah but again that’s not the media coverage they want! If it’s not a ticker tape parade that dominates every 15 minute televised segment of the week it doesn’t count :rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Tend to agree with this.
I think it's generally problematic in any country if you enter a cycle of new government bringing previous charges against old government. Whilst the prospective charges against Trump may be slam-dunk, even the cleanest administration will have done 'something' that can be viewed as negligent or corrupt when examined in a particular way. So in 4 or 8 years the neo-Trumpists could do exactly the same to an outgoing Biden presidency.

If you get into a cycle of revenge, then eventually someone decides they may as well not bother doing a peaceful handover of power at all. Multiple examples of this in Africa or South America.

So probably best to let sleeping dogs lie if Trump loses in November and exits in the proper way.

Surely the GOP, as the party of law and order would have no problem with a criminal being prosecuted?

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely the GOP, as the party of law and order would have no problem with a criminal being prosecuted?

And the law and order president himself should have no moral objection to facing it either.

fullstop

Overheal wrote: »

And there’s no guarantee any of it works. Many of his most grandstanding executive orders have fallen flat, or took years to do anything. Like trying to undo DACA, ban people from majority Muslim countries, and yes even one he signed the other year requiring pharma commercials to display a drug MSRP was also shot down in the courts before it did anything. So it’s all of case of merely wanting to be seen to be doing something until any of these things he signed yesterday actually do something of benefit.

How did that social media EO he was making a song and dance about get on?!

amandstu

Overheal wrote: »

And the law and order president himself should have no moral objection to facing it either.

fake justice:(

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

fake justice:(

How do you figure? Please explain your reasoning.

Overheal

Portland Protesters now joined by Wall of Veterans in response to underhanded response by the Department of Homeland Security, up to and concluding shattering the hand of a navy vet who stood peacefully with his arms at his sides, also pepper sprayed in the same instance.

In the last 2 weeks, since DHS started sweeping Antifa and BLM protesters up into minivans, the size of the crowds has swelled from a few dozen, to over ten thousand.

https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/wall-of-veterans-arrives-in-portland-to-protect-black-lives-matter-protesters-from-trumps-dhs-troops/

Simply incredible. Trump has completely lost this episode in American politics.