Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Timberrrrrrrr

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

In what way has it gone down the drain?

Do you think America is in a better place now than it was before Trump was elected?

Muahahaha

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That video of that axios interview is awful. As soon as the reporter mentions the PBD in a spin that would make Shane warne take notice he's on to china and that angle. At this stage we can disagree about many things but Russia has something on trump(what is it is we don't know) and he is going out of his way to avoid getting on its bad side.

I wish some journalist would just come out and ask him straight if Russia has something on him, even to hear him deny it would be of some value.

Meanwhile in Texas that most Republican of states the virus is out of control and Joe Biden has slipped past Trump in a recent poll.

With Texas as one of the biggest hot spots in the coronavirus pandemic, voters say 65 - 31 percent that the spread of coronavirus is "out of control," according to a Quinnipiac University poll of registered voters in Texas released today.

Nearly three-quarters, 74 - 25 percent, think the spread of the coronavirus in the state is a serious problem. Two-thirds, 66 percent, say they personally know someone who has been diagnosed with the coronavirus, a 31-point spike since early June when 35 percent said they personally knew someone who had been diagnosed with the coronavirus.

"The concern is palpable as the number of virus victims soars and it's getting more personal every day, as the patient lists increasingly include friends, family and neighbors," said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.

2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

In the race for the White House, 45 percent of voters support former Vice President Joe Biden, while 44 percent back President Trump. That compares to early June when the race was equally tight and voters backed Trump 44 percent to Biden's 43 percent. In today's survey, Democrats back Biden 94 - 3 percent, independents back Biden 51 - 32 percent and Republicans back Trump 89 - 6 percent.

"With crises swirling through American society and a country deeply divided, there's no other way to slice it. It's a tossup in Texas," Malloy added.

https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=3667

Could the unthinkable of Republicans losing Texas now be becoming a possibility?

Carfacemandog

It's not just Herman Cain either. I'm not celebrating their deaths but they also get zero sympathy from me. Two elderly men went on suicide runs, and died as a result.

Leroy42

Obviously given the hostory and the make up of voters in Texas, even a close race is a serious problem for Trump and the GOP and it will divert resources away from the battleground states.

But the very fact that they are still even close if quite astonishing. I mean, what does a GOP president actually have to fail at before people start to consider their vote.

I don't understand how Trump is down in the low 30's at this point (I mean I do in the context of America, but I am talking in a more general sense)

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

Obviously given the hostory and the make up of voters in Texas, even a close race is a serious problem for Trump and the GOP and it will divert resources away from the battleground states.

But the very fact that they are still even close if quite astonishing. I mean, what does a GOP president actually have to fail at before people start to consider their vote.

I don't understand how Trump is down in the low 30's at this point (I mean I do in the context of America, but I am talking in a more general sense)

Indeed - Texas has some of the most expensive TV markets in the US.

Dallas & Houston are Top 5 and San Antonio is Top 20 I think..

A single TV ad in those markets would cost multiples of running that same ad in Philly for example.

The more money they have to spend to shore up Texas the less they have available to try to hold on to Pennsylvania or Ohio for example.

Barring something utterly unprecedented , Texas will stay GOP but it's going to cost them big.

Overheal

extra gravy wrote: »

It's so hilariously transparent though, does he really think that anyone apart from his brainwashed supporters will be fooled by this?

Its another world on his twitter, man. Some of these voters are just *locked in* and they live inside the Trump Bubble, they only hear what Trump and OAN and the likes of Tucker Carlson and Hannity tell them to hear. Everything else is 'fake news.'

Fortunately the number of people who exist in this bubble I think has dwindled since 2016; however there will always be a population of voters who pay no mind to the news and will vote on Truthiness, more still will continue to vote protest against 'baby-killing demonrats.'

Overheal

hmmm wrote: »

Cain's death, possibly due to Covid picked up at Trump's Tusla rally, and an unbelievably bad economic report - historically bad. No wonder Trump threw out the delay election Tweet, we know how he works now.

Counterspin is already oiled up for this

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-john-roberts-claims-herman-cain-couldnt-have-had-coronavirus-at-trump-tulsa-rally-something-happened-between-then-and-the-29th/

Fox News White House correspondent John Roberts claimed former Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain — who died this week from Covid-19 — couldn’t have been positive for the coronavirus on the day of President Donald Trump’s Tulsa rally last month because all attendees who would be close to the president were tested.

Following Sandra Smith’s segment on the news of Cain’s death, Roberts said, “Sandra, if there’s just one other thing I could point out. At that Tulsa rally, everybody who was going to get close to the president — and that would have included Herman Cain, because I went through it myself — were tested for coronavirus disease.”

“They had a couple of tents that were set up outside the center there in Tulsa, and he would have tested negative at that point, otherwise he would not have been allowed into the rally,” Roberts claimed. “So, something happened between Tulsa and the 29th where he contracted the virus.”

“Not to say he got it at the rally. There were some staffers who showed positives, some secret service who showed positive, both prior to the rally and in the aftermath. Not to say that happened to Herman Cain, but it’s likely that he would have been negative for coronavirus on that day because he would have been tested,” Roberts concluded.

He's a complete idiot. What you're really saying is, "He tested negative when he got there" - and clearly could have picked up the disease while there. :rolleyes:

banie01

The tone of conciliation, cooperation and outright respect for Lewis over the entire course of Lewis's funerary journey is quite uplifting.
It gives hope. All too often us here on the far side of the pond are quick to lament the collapse of the US and its descent to chaos.

The good still far outweighs the bad, yes the system is incredibly broken. But! the good really does still outweigh the bad!

I hope the election goes smoothly, I hope that consensus, peace and fairness can prevail.
That we worry about what the incumbent will do to corrupt the process, rather than what a change of Govt could bring is surely all the proof need of the fear and danger the incumbent can provoke!

Clinton and Bush, again talking and showing the gravitas that actually being Presidential should mean!
Imagine Trump even impersonating this level of class!

Even without Barack, the current POTUS has been skewered!

Overheal wrote: »

He's a complete idiot. What you're really saying is, "He tested negative when he got there" - and clearly could have picked up the disease while there. :rolleyes:

God forbid Fox would make an effort to understand infection window and incubation periods!

Itssoeasy

banie01 wrote: »

The tone of conciliation, cooperation and outright respect for Lewis over the entire course of Lewis's funerary journey is quite uplifting.
It gives hope. All too often us here on the far side of the pond are quick to lament the collapse of the US and its descent to chaos.

The good still far outweighs the bad, yes the system is incredibly broken. But! the good really does still outweigh the bad!

I hope the election goes smoothly, I hope that consensus, peace and fairness can prevail.
That we worry about what the incumbent will do to corrupt the process, rather than what a change of Govt could bring is surely all the proof need of the fear and danger the incumbent can provoke!

Clinton and Bush, again talking and showing the gravitas that actually being Presidential should mean!
Imagine Trump even impersonating this level of class!

Even without Barack, the current POTUS has been skewered!


God forbid Fox would make an effort to understand infection window and incubation periods!

Sure look at bushes and the Obamas and Clintons at the funerals of bush 43s parents. There might be vast policy differences but on a human level they more then act in a civilised way.

Overheal

banie01 wrote: »

God forbid Fox would make an effort to understand infection window and incubation periods!

Rally on June 20, having tested negative at/before arrival

July 2nd, admitted to hospital for Covid symptoms, 12 days after rally

Not hard to figure out, geniuses @ Fox News. ~14 day incubation period.

Let's at least honor Cain's death by being ****ing truthful about how it came about.

Leroy42

But it is not even that they are being untruthful, it is impossible to be sure where he contracted it.

But what they are doing is trying their best to avoid any blame being levelled at Trump. Without any actual knowledge, they are basically concluding that it has nothing to do with Tulsa, and thus Trump.

The man died today and all they can think of is how to deflect any potential blame away from Trump. And he was one of their own. Imagine what they think of people that die that are not in their club!

StringerBell

Muahahaha wrote: »

I wish some journalist would just come out and ask him straight if Russia has something on him, even to hear him deny it would be of some value.

Meanwhile in Texas that most Republican of states the virus is out of control and Joe Biden has slipped past Trump in a recent poll.


https://poll.qu.edu/texas/release-detail?ReleaseID=3667

Could the unthinkable of Republicans losing Texas now be becoming a possibility?

I'd still be absolutely astonished if come election day Texas doesn't stay red but the fact that they will have to fight for it will have a knock effect on other states and that can only be a good thing.

Penn

Overheal wrote: »

Rally on June 20, having tested negative at/before arrival

July 2nd, admitted to hospital for Covid symptoms, 12 days after rally

Not hard to figure out, geniuses @ Fox News. ~14 day incubation period.

Let's at least honor Cain's death by being ****ing truthful about how it came about.

He was hospitalised on July 2nd, but actually tested positive 2 days earlier, which cuts down the time between testing negative before the rally and testing positive after the rally even further, a stronger sign that he contracted it at the rally.

Overheal

Penn wrote: »

He was hospitalised on July 2nd, but actually tested positive 2 days earlier, which cuts down the time between testing negative before the rally and testing positive after the rally even further, a stronger sign that he contracted it at the rally.

Didn't know that thanks.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/herman-cain-hospitalized-after-testing-postive-for-coronavirus

For the threads record the positive test notification was June 29.

Thargor

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Indeed - Texas has some of the most expensive TV markets in the US.

Dallas & Houston are Top 5 and San Antonio is Top 20 I think..

A single TV ad in those markets would cost multiples of running that same ad in Philly for example.

The more money they have to spend to shore up Texas the less they have available to try to hold on to Pennsylvania or Ohio for example.

Barring something utterly unprecedented , Texas will stay GOP but it's going to cost them big.

Sounds like they've already abandoned Michigan:

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/michi-gone-trump-campaign-reportedly-giving-up-on-buying-ads-in-key-swing-state/

Overheal

Thargor wrote: »

Sounds like they've already abandoned Michigan:

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/michi-gone-trump-campaign-reportedly-giving-up-on-buying-ads-in-key-swing-state/

Trumps the sort of personality who would actually go redouble his efforts in Michigan solely because the media reported on him giving up on it. So, I'm certainly not yet calling Michigan for Biden. However, Biden is up significantly. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/michigan/

That said Hillary lost several 'safe' states, which was due to Trump being there and she not, but that doesn't mean the phenomenon can't happen again elsewhere for different stimuli

Quin_Dub

Overheal wrote: »

Its another world on his twitter, man. Some of these voters are just *locked in* and they live inside the Trump Bubble, they only hear what Trump and OAN and the likes of Tucker Carlson and Hannity tell them to hear. Everything else is 'fake news.'

Fortunately the number of people who exist in this bubble I think has dwindled since 2016; however there will always be a population of voters who pay no mind to the news and will vote on Truthiness, more still will continue to vote protest against 'baby-killing demonrats.'

Indeed - It's quite startling to see the disconnect between Trump voters and pretty much every other Demographic across the US.

A Recent YouGov survey , covering a whole host of topics makes for interesting reading.

Take any of the "Topics du jour" - Economy , Corona-virus etc. and when you look at the opinions given almost all the groupings by age , race , gender , education , region of the country are in the same ballpark in their responses - Trump voters? - WAY out on their own.

For example the question - Are you better off now than 4 years ago?

Across the board ~50% said they were better off 4 years ago , with a roughly equal split between "No Change" and "Worse off".

Trump Supporters ? - 70% said they were better off today.

Bubble is right..

Muahahaha

StringerBell wrote: »

I'd still be absolutely astonished if come election day Texas doesn't stay red but the fact that they will have to fight for it will have a knock effect on other states and that can only be a good thing.

yeah Id be astonished too if it happens but those Texas poll results showing Biden leading Trump (albeit by only 1%) are a bit of a shocker for such a red state, it shouldnt even be close dont mind Biden leading him.

Its one worth keeping an eye on because if Biden were to extend his lead in Texas further we could be in for an absolutely seismic election. Trump is in major polling trouble with women losing to Biden by 22% nationally. Given they're half of the electorate that could mean that states that were once considered certainties for the Republicans may now come into play. Suburban moms have deserted Trump in big numbers and they were a key factor in his 2016 election victory when they largely opted for him over Hillary.

Guy:Incognito

He could have just came out and said he wasnt going to John Lewis' funeral cos he had to do an ad for a pizza place. No need to lie.

#pizzagate ?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288843391065882629

pixelburp

Given Trump famously likes steaks well done so much they rattle on the plate, and doused with ketchup, I'd take any food recommendation from him with a pinch of salt. His branded frozen steaks were supposedly awful too. Not even remotely relevant to the thread at all, but Trump making a food shout-out itself feels grossly off base in terms of his "expertise".

Guy:Incognito

Imagine the Q idiots if any Democrat tweeted that . They'd be screaming pizzagate so loudly their screens would crack.

and Trump would be retweeting them.

SimonTemplar

Let's say Trump causes a sh*tstorm in November and refuses to accept a loss, and let's assume he goes down a long protracted legal route (assuming the courts will entertain it).

If the issue isn't resolved by the end of his term in January (and for some reason Biden isn't inaugurated), my understanding is that Pelosi automatically becomes president in a care taker capacity.

Is that correct? If so, if Trump loses, his term of office will end in January and there is nothing he can do to prevent that.

Gbear

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Let's say Trump causes a sh*tstorm in November and refuses to accept a loss, and let's assume he goes down a long protracted legal route (assuming the courts will entertain it).

If the issue isn't resolved by the end of his term in January (and for some reason Biden isn't inaugurated), my understanding is that Pelosi automatically becomes president in a care taker capacity.

Is that correct? If so, if Trump loses, his term of office will end in January and there is nothing he can do to prevent that.

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.


For one thing, the House seats are all up for election, so that creates another kink, but as far as the actual process goes, I believe the Senate nominate someone to be the President Pro Temporae, and it's traditionally the longest serving senator, which in this case, would be Patrick Leahy.

Overheal

Gbear wrote: »

I would be surprised if people would have any issue with the Democrats steamrolling the Republicans anywhere and everywhere at this point. If it meant actually getting things done, so long as the results were good they wouldn't care.

Most already don't, or at least not enough to punish the Republicans for it, so politically, it's hard to see where the value is in it.

I agree. Obama's first 2 years were a case study for the ages in why trying to bring Republicans to the table to elevate the decorum in Washington was a wasted effort. The GOP has been making its bed neatly for the past 12 years and it's almost time to lay fully in it I think.

pixelburp wrote: »

Given Trump famously likes steaks well done so much they rattle on the plate, and doused with ketchup, I'd take any food recommendation from him with a pinch of salt. His branded frozen steaks were supposedly awful too. Not even remotely relevant to the thread at all, but Trump making a food shout-out itself feels grossly off base in terms of his "expertise".

He eats pizza with a fork and knife so that's a good policy to have PB

SimonTemplar

Gbear wrote: »

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.


For one thing, the House seats are all up for election, so that creates another kink, but as far as the actual process goes, I believe the Senate nominate someone to be the President Pro Temporae, and it's traditionally the longest serving senator, which in this case, would be Patrick Leahy.

Fair enough, but the main point is that Trump's term finishes on 20th January and an election loss means he cannot be president on 21st.

Quin_Dub

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Let's say Trump causes a sh*tstorm in November and refuses to accept a loss, and let's assume he goes down a long protracted legal route (assuming the courts will entertain it).

If the issue isn't resolved by the end of his term in January (and for some reason Biden isn't inaugurated), my understanding is that Pelosi automatically becomes president in a care taker capacity.

Is that correct? If so, if Trump loses, his term of office will end in January and there is nothing he can do to prevent that.

Not quite

One of the scenarios posited was the following.

• Trump loses a few States reasonably closely , enough to change the overall result if he had won them
• Those States have "Trump friendly GOP Governors" (Florida , Georgia for example)
• Those Governors announce that they cannot validate the results because of blah blah blah reasons
• As a result , they refuse to send forward their EC voters , meaning no one reaches 270 so a President cannot be elected

This is where it gets weird , in the way that only a US Election can.

Under that scenario , the House votes to elect the President , however each Congress member does not have a vote , it is 1 Vote per State. So for example , Liz Chaney is the only congress person for Wyoming so her vote counts for as much as the 53 Congress people from California!

The State level vote is decided by which party has the most seats in each State , currently that is the GOP 26-24 as despite being in the overall minority , they have most of the smaller states by count.

In that case , if all voted along party lines , Trump would be re-elected.

Not a certainty - Liz Cheney is definitely not a Trump fan , but not sure if she'd be willing to cross the aisle for that one.

I've said it before , but the US electoral system is the most bizarre arcane cluster I have ever seen.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah Id be astonished too if it happens but those Texas poll results showing Biden leading Trump (albeit by only 1%) are a bit of a shocker for such a red state, it shouldnt even be close dont mind Biden leading him.

Its one worth keeping an eye on because if Biden were to extend his lead in Texas further we could be in for an absolutely seismic election. Trump is in major polling trouble with women losing to Biden by 22% nationally. Given they're half of the electorate that could mean that states that were once considered certainties for the Republicans may now come into play. Suburban moms have deserted Trump in big numbers and they were a key factor in his 2016 election victory when they largely opted for him over Hillary.

2008 - 55-44
2012 - 57-41
2016 - 52-43

I was a bit surprised to see that Hillary actually improved on Obama's '12 result. I think it's unlikely to flip but if the Republicans slip below 50% it'll be a big deal IMO. The demographic changes mean the medium-term outlook is poor for the Republicans too.

aloyisious

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Let's say Trump causes a sh*tstorm in November and refuses to accept a loss, and let's assume he goes down a long protracted legal route (assuming the courts will entertain it).

If the issue isn't resolved by the end of his term in January (and for some reason Biden isn't inaugurated), my understanding is that Pelosi automatically becomes president in a care taker capacity.

Is that correct? If so, if Trump loses, his term of office will end in January and there is nothing he can do to prevent that.

Regardless [or maybe because he's president and liable to more than the usual laws - the constitutional set] any lawyer acting for him would have to provide the USSC a case with standing to meet the legal standard required for them to consider it and not just a frivolous time-wasting effort.

The USSC would have to look at any case presented on his behalf as a possible attempt to subvert the constitution itself and react accordingly.

SimonTemplar

So a governor can withhold the EC voters in a federal election? Jesus, they really need an independent electoral commission to oversee elections.

aloyisious

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not quite

One of the scenarios posited was the following.

• Trump loses a few States reasonably closely , enough to change the overall result if he had won them
• Those States have "Trump friendly GOP Governors" (Florida , Georgia for example)
• Those Governors announce that they cannot validate the results because of blah blah blah reasons
• As a result , they refuse to send forward their EC voters , meaning no one reaches 270 so a President cannot be elected

This is where it gets weird , in the way that only a US Election can.

Under that scenario , the House votes to elect the President , however each Congress member does not have a vote , it is 1 Vote per State. So for example , Liz Chaney is the only congress person for Wyoming so her vote counts for as much as the 53 Congress people from California!

The State level vote is decided by which party has the most seats in each State , currently that is the GOP 26-24 as despite being in the overall minority , they have most of the smaller states by count.

In that case , if all voted along party lines , Trump would be re-elected.

Not a certainty - Liz Cheney is definitely not a Trump fan , but not sure if she'd be willing to cross the aisle for that one.

I've said it before , but the US electoral system is the most bizarre arcane cluster I have ever seen.

Wouldn't the above final vote rely on the GOP having a majority to re-elect Trump, after the Nov election results affecting both houses and states?