Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

Way more than what I have seen in Ireland and the UK, many in America treat their political affiliation like we in Ireland or the UK do when we support a soccer team.

Once they make their choice, that's it and they ain't gonna change. It seems to me that when really ticked off, they decide not to vote rather than flip to the other side.

It's quite bizarre given the impact it can have on their lives.

States changed colour in the 2016 election. Nearly all political pollsters had Clinton as a shoe in yet these states. Yet as a whole some changed affiliation in comparison to the 2012 election.

So "many " may be true but clearly it isnt the case with most. And those red states may turn blue in this election which will again show that generalisations are never realistic.

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

States changed colour in the 2016 election. Nearly all political pollsters had Clinton as a shoe in yet these states. Yet as a whole some changed affiliation in comparison to the 2012 election.

So "many " may be true but clearly it isnt the case with most. And those red states may turn blue in this election which will show that generalisations are never realistic.

As I've said before, I think states change colour based on the proportion of one side over the other which are motivated to vote much more so than going from voting for one party to the other.

Say you have 100 people

40 Democrat
40 Republican
10 Open to switching
10 No Interest

Say, in this example, 20 Republicans decided they won't vote, even if all those open to switching go with the Republican, it will not be enough to get them over the line if Democrat manage to get even 75% of their members to vote.

Turnout has been at about 52% over the last 40 years but, you get the point.

EltonJohn69

I see Trump has stoped using "KAGA"/Keep America great......also: Where is Pence ? Was he getting too popular with the Corona Briefings ?

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

As I've said before, I think states change colour based on the proportion of one side over the other which are motivated to vote much more so than going from voting for one party to the other.

Say you have 100 people

40 Democrat
40 Republican
10 Open to switching
10 No Interest

Say, in this example, 20 Republicans decided they won't vote, even if all those open to switching go with the Republican, it will not be enough to get them over the line if Democrat manage to get even 75% of their members to vote.

Turnout has been at about 52% over the last 40 years but, you get the point.

Turnout wins elections. No argument there.
The Latino vote is a growing and vital base that both sides want to entice.
Democrats are under pressure to win over this base as Biden came under fire for his time in the Obama administration for the record number of deportations carried out

Democrats such as Julián Castro have made such promises :


" To decriminalize crossing the border, changing it from criminal violations — a misdemeanor on the first attempt and felony on repeated attempts — to a civil violation"

Democrats want to make illegal immigration a civil violation.

I find that to be a policy of insanity.

What would you think about such policy?

Itssoeasy

I see that at least one GOP member of congress has pushed on trumps executive order and the money aspect of it.

looksee

It seems that after a chat with an outlier 'expert' Trump has decided he can do whatever he pleases (CNN)
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-powers-coronavirus/index.html

Trump can do things that are illegal or unconstitutional, according to the UC Berkeley professor John Yoo, who is known for his creative interpretations of the law.
"According to Chief Justice Roberts, the Constitution makes it easy for presidents to violate the law, but reversing such violations difficult — especially for their successors," Yoo wrote in National Review.
...
And he (Trump) aped the argument during a recent Fox News interview with Chris Wallace, where he said he'd be doing some very exciting things in the near future because the Supreme Court gave him new powers.

It all gets madder and madder.

Itssoeasy

As if the current US administration can't get more off the wall. Peter Navarro has said "the lord and the founding fathers created executive orders" because of partisan bickering. So now executive orders have the backing of the almighty ? Funny how they didn't think that when Obama was in power.

Itssoeasy

looksee wrote: »

It seems that after a chat with an outlier 'expert' Trump has decided he can do whatever he pleases (CNN)
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/09/politics/trump-powers-coronavirus/index.html


It all gets madder and madder.

The new powers trump claims he got in relation to healthcare(what he said in the chris Wallace interview) was he seems to have confused DACA which is to do with children brought here illegally and the ACA aka Obamacare. That to me showed he not well versed in what things mean.

Overheal

Itssoeasy wrote: »

As if the current US administration can't get more off the wall. Peter Navarro has said "the lord and the founding fathers created executive orders" because of partisan bickering. So now executive orders have the backing of the almighty ? Funny how they didn't think that when Obama was in power.

But of a dog whistle to evangelicals to stop questioning them.

aloyisious

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So people who don't vote Biden are either a racist or are delusional. Maybe both

That's the bottom line is it?

Your proposition is interesting if one were to reply YES to the second part with the ? mark, If one was black and didn't vote for Biden, seeing as how the vote is [for a large part] colour-blind. Would you take it that said black voter was an anti-black racist?

FrostyJack

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Where is Pence ? Was he getting too popular with the Corona Briefings ?

In an interview a day or so ago, Trump was asked about Pence and he said he was flying somewhere faraway (paraphrasing) and when he lands he will answer the questions. It isn't the first time he has said something similar, reminds me a gangster film where they say someone is sleeping with the fishes. How very weird for someone not to know what country, he literally doesn't listen to anything unless it is about him directly.

Itssoeasy

I retract my last post about the trump administration going off the wall. According to the New York Times the White House contacted the governor of South Dakota about having president trump added to the Mount Rushmore. I mean while the four presidents up there aren't without fault at least Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Roosevelt did something to warrant being up there.

looksee

Its a wonder it didn't occur to him to have his face projected - light-show fashion - up there when he had his rally. 'People begged me, Mr President sir*, you should be up there with the greats! Its never been done before, it would be tremendous!'

*He always says people address him as sir when he is lying.

Water John

He should head out strait away to Sturgis and he could hold a massive rally.

Great piece in Rolling Stone magazine about the potential consequence of their handling of the Coronavirus. Basically the US has become a tragedy and is unlikely to ever fully recover from it and any form of social good has been forgotten.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Itssoeasy

Overheal wrote: »

But of a dog whistle to evangelicals to stop questioning them.

Yeah but dog whistles are meant to be discreet.

Water John

The words Trump and subtle don't go well together.

looksee

Heavens that's a no messing piece on Rolling Stone! It seems to be largely comprised of opinions based on facts and figures. Is it as accurate as it appears to be?

Tell me how

My word but that Rolling Stone Article is something else.
Hard to argue with it. I commented to people here that it was some mess at how there was no capacity to provide masks, probably the simplest piece of PPE there is for so long after a Pandemic which had been forewarned hit.

'Since 1970, China hasn't gone to war once, America has not been at peace for a day!' Some statement.

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah but dog whistles are meant to be discreet.

Discreet?? Remember whom the title of this thread is about

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah but dog whistles are meant to be discreet.

Discreet?? Remember whom the title of this thread is about

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

Great piece in Rolling Stone magazine about the potential consequence of their handling of the Coronavirus. Basically the US has become a tragedy and is unlikely to ever fully recover from it and any form of social good has been forgotten.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Wow , there are some truly stunning data-points in that article.

The nation consumes two-thirds of the world’s production of antidepressant drugs. The collapse of the working-class family has been responsible in part for an opioid crisis that has displaced car accidents as the leading cause of death for Americans under 50.

In truth, at least in economic terms, the country of the 1950s resembled Denmark as much as the America of today. Marginal tax rates for the wealthy were 90 percent. The salaries of CEOs were, on average, just 20 times that of their mid-management employees.

Today, the base pay of those at the top is commonly 400 times that of their salaried staff, with many earning orders of magnitude more in stock options and perks. The elite one percent of Americans control $30 trillion of assets, while the bottom half have more debt than assets. The three richest Americans have more money than the poorest 160 million of their countrymen. Fully a fifth of American households have zero or negative net worth, a figure that rises to 37 percent for black families. The median wealth of black households is a tenth that of whites. The vast majority of Americans — white, black, and brown — are two paychecks removed from bankruptcy. Though living in a nation that celebrates itself as the wealthiest in history, most Americans live on a high wire, with no safety net to brace a fall.

abff

looksee wrote: »

Heavens that's a no messing piece on Rolling Stone! It seems to be largely comprised of opinions based on facts and figures. Is it as accurate as it appears to be?

It’s certainly very hard hitting and makes for very uneasy reading. As you say, it’s an opinion piece, but it’s hard to argue against the points being made. The following two paragraphs about POTUS are pretty damning, but not the least bit unfair, in my opinion.

“Americans have not done themselves any favors. Their political process made possible the ascendancy to the highest office in the land a national disgrace, a demagogue as morally and ethically compromised as a person can be. As a British writer quipped, “there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid”.

The American president lives to cultivate resentments, demonize his opponents, validate hatred. His main tool of governance is the lie; as of July 9th, 2020, the documented tally of his distortions and false statements numbered 20,055. If America’s first president, George Washington, famously could not tell a lie, the current one can’t recognize the truth. Inverting the words and sentiments of Abraham Lincoln, this dark troll of a man celebrates malice for all, and charity for none.”

pixelburp

That Rolling Stone article reads less like a polemic and more of a Moment of Clarity from a citizen realising America's time of Primacy is well and truly on the way out. The stats are not in the least bit surprising but still depressing to behold just how much the US's own people are on the backfoot - and arguably support it too, cheering on the myth of the trickle down economy. No better subjugation than the willing enslavement of the self I guess. I've long suspected it even before Trump & CoVid came along but both elements have arguably hastened this process of America's fragmentation into irrelevance. I don't cheer this either: China Dominant is dangerous and an unpleasant consideration, as while I find America's individualism abhorrent - China's aggressive collectivism is no antidote either. And while off topic and not necessarily well supported, this is also precisely why I support further EU federalisation; America as a powerful ally to everything west of the Volga is currently non-existent at worst, unreliable at best. Europe's members need to pool together and finally get over delusions of nation statehood, or else we'll be next.

VinLieger

pixelburp wrote: »

And while off topic and not necessarily well supported, this is also precisely why I support further EU federalisation; America as a powerful ally to everything west of the Volga is currently non-existent at worst, unreliable at best. Europe's members need to pool together and finally get over delusions of nation statehood, or else we'll be next.

Not to go too off topic but just want to really agree with this, while im not happy about it i simply dont see what other course of action we have in Europe. When people complain about the federalisation of Europe i can only think, well what else can we do to secure our ourselves from a dominant china and russia now the US as a viable stalwart of western values is gone, Nationalism akin to brexit is simply not a realistic or viable solution.

Itssoeasy

I had written two posts since last night about the brilliant rolling stone article but boards.ie is on its arse it seems so I'll just say it's a superb article.

marno21

VinLieger wrote: »

Not to go too off topic but just want to really agree with this, while im not happy about it i simply dont see what other course of action we have in Europe. When people complain about the federalisation of Europe i can only think, well what else can we do to secure our ourselves from a dominant china and russia now the US as a viable stalwart of western values is gone, Nationalism akin to brexit is simply not a realistic or viable solution.

It serves as a timely reminder of the John Hume quote: You can't eat a flag.

The population at large, many of which are supporting the global racket of "conservative" nationalist movements in their own countries, will learn that electing imbeciles who drive this nonsense will lead to hard times for their own country, and themselves. The level that the UK, US, Brazil and others are operating at now is comical, all in the name of my country is great.

Time will tell who is indeed behind this co-ordinated global movement. We know some of the actors (Bannon, Farage etc) but it'll be interesting to see in time when the whole thing unravels.

extra gravy

Brilliant article. One of the parts that stood out for me:

"More than any other country, the United States in the post-war era lionized the individual at the expense of community and family. It was the sociological equivalent of splitting the atom. What was gained in terms of mobility and personal freedom came at the expense of common purpose."

Perfectly sums up American society and the anti mask brigade where people are more concerned about their own individual freedoms than making a small sacrifice for the common good.

Leroy42

It looks like the latest EO episode is fast falling part. They didn't even discuss the 25% the state would have to cover with the states beforehand, and will only now start to check it they can or will do it. So it could very much be that certain states simply won't do it.

A leader that doesn't even check that people are with him before rolling out yet another failure to make deals. Surely the greatest deal maker in the world could have got both sides together and worked something out? Remeber when he used to invite Pelosi etc into the WH to get a deal done?

He doesn't even bother to pretend that he has any ability to get deals done anymore. He sees himself as a king, able to simply make stuff up whenever he feels like it without any interaction with the elected representatves.

The Lincoln Project has a take on Trumps use of EO, which surprise surprise he was totally against when Obama didn it;

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1292782215756120065

Quin_Dub

pixelburp wrote: »

That Rolling Stone article reads less like a polemic and more of a Moment of Clarity from a citizen realising America's time of Primacy is well and truly on the way out. The stats are not in the least bit surprising but still depressing to behold just how much the US's own people are on the backfoot - and arguably support it too, cheering on the myth of the trickle down economy. No better subjugation than the willing enslavement of the self I guess. I've long suspected it even before Trump & CoVid came along but both elements have arguably hastened this process of America's fragmentation into irrelevance. I don't cheer this either: China Dominant is dangerous and an unpleasant consideration, as while I find America's individualism abhorrent - China's aggressive collectivism is no antidote either. And while off topic and not necessarily well supported, this is also precisely why I support further EU federalisation; America as a powerful ally to everything west of the Volga is currently non-existent at worst, unreliable at best. Europe's members need to pool together and finally get over delusions of nation statehood, or else we'll be next.

The article talks about the loss of the "Social Contract" in the US.

I'd suggest that there has never been one in US Society.

It has always been about survival of the fittest , dog eat dog or whatever saying you prefer.

There's has never been a safety net , there has never been a feeling that if you were to fail that someone would help you get back up.

I've long said it about the US - A great place to be successful in , but an awful place to be unsuccessful or even just average.

All Trump has done is to scrub away that thin veneer of Society and "Christian Charity" the US always claimed to be about and shown the actual reality to the world.