Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

da_miser wrote: »

I just assume that the fact some here cant comprehend what is happening might have a easier easier time understanding what is happening in picture format, they clearly cannot cannot see the wood for the trees in the written format.
Its a disaster for the Dems, only better way for Trump would be if Joes handlers had picked Hilary.

Next dump or snide comment and you're getting a ban.

Christy42

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

They're no worse that Spain, Italy, Sweden or the UK per capita, he's obviously fumbling the data but the media is making a circus out of it

They are still getting 50k cases a day and over 1k deaths. They are no worse than some of the worst hit in the world and quite frankly gaining on them at a speed of knots is worth a bit of attention.

Remember when people said it was fine, no worse than Ireland and people ignored how much quicker their situation was escalating?

In case you are worried about per capita they already have more cases per capita than the above 3 and have more deaths per day than the entire EU has in a week (which has a bigger population than the US).

salmocab

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

They're no worse that Spain, Italy, Sweden or the UK per capita, he's obviously fumbling the data but the media is making a circus out of it

They’re no worse than other countries who did badly is not a ringing endorsement. By pretty much every measure they are doing terrible. They are doing well in Amount of tests andThat’s about it.

amandstu

salmocab wrote: »

They’re no worse than other countries who did badly is not a ringing endorsement. By pretty much every measure they are doing terrible. They are doing well in Amount of tests andThat’s about it.

Not to forget that one would expect USA ,with all its natural economic advantages and wealth of scientific capital it has siphoned from the rest of the world over the years to be leading the way in practically every department.


Sadly American society is rotting from the head down .

That Rolling Stone article rings very true.

Carfacemandog

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

They're no worse that Spain, Italy, Sweden or the UK per capita, he's obviously fumbling the data but the media is making a circus out of it

First of all, that's not the case. The US has double the per capita cases of Sweden and the UK, more than 3x that of Spain and quadruple that of Italy.

Added to that, Sweden have been rightfully pilloried for a terrible response - but while it doesn't excuse it they at least had a very strong public health system that they figured could help handle it, while the US does not.

Italy and Spain have some of the oldest populations in the world and got absolutely hammered before anyone could get a real grip on what was going on. New York and New Jersey in the US were. similar, but what has happened since is across the nation is a direct result of Trump downplaying the virus, and even claiming it didn't exist on top of endless other awful comments about disinfectants, malaria drugs, masks, etc, and of course calling for armed uprisings against lockdown measures by his own supporters. They had months to prepare after Europe and other parts of the world were getting hammered and did essentially nothing.

A lot of this is down to population density - Sweden's is actually lower than the US' which damns their approach even more. Spain's is treble that of the US, Italy is six times as densely populated, and the UK is eight times more densely populated. That was an outrageous advantage for them in this crisis, and they utterly squandered it.

The UK can consider themselves almost fortunate for the presence of Trump and Bolsonaro in Brazil, they've still been one of the poster nations of "how not to handle a crisis" but have been quite overshadowed by their right wing/far right populist counterparts on the other side of the water.

salmocab

amandstu wrote: »

Not to forget that one would expect USA ,with all its natural economic advantages and wealth of scientific capital it has siphoned from the rest of the world over the years to be leading the way in practically every department.


Sadly American society is rotting from the head down .

That Rolling Stone article rings very true.

Covid needed more than just money chucked at it, it needed people to come together for each other, sadly a good portion of the people over there just aren’t capable of looking out for others. Good leadership would have helped enormously but it was just politicised and people died instead.

The Raging Bile Duct

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

The Raging Bile Duct

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

Think a federal lockdown would have been good. But the individualism thing was one of key things in that Rolling Stone article, it seems to take precedence over everything for a lot of Americans. Then you've got a substantial proportion of people who don't realise how bad it is.

duploelabs

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

It's more the question of is there a leader available who is able to 'cross the line' and negotiate with the opposing party to form a cohesive plan that appeals (and benefits) to all. I'm yet to see Trump do that

Quin_Dub

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

Perhaps not , certainly not to the extent of the sort of societal connectivity you see across Europe and elsewhere.

However a consistent and forceful affirmation of the right messaging would absolutely have helped immensely.

salmocab

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

Nobody could have got everyone together but a real leader would have brought many along with them. There was no way there was going to be zero deaths but a lot could have been prevented by early decisive action. Decisive actions early and leaders doing their jobs could have prevented thousands of deaths.

Carfacemandog

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

I can't see any other leader in US history using this as an excuse to intentionally try and further that divide by claiming it doesn't exist, can be treated with malaria drugs (despite not existing), was made up by his political enemies, refusing to impose any protective measures himself, and calling in his supporters to partake in armed uprisings against certain state governments that did so themselves.

There might be a low "ceiling" for hwo well this could have been managed, but Trump not only went for the floor instead - he began digging to new depths when others around him tried to raise that floor in the absence of anything 4esembling leadership from him.

The last 6 months has marked a real inflection point in the end of the US as the world's most dominant force, and it's hard to see them ever recovering from it to be frank.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Carfacemandog wrote: »

First of all, that's not the case. The US has double the per capita cases of Sweden and the UK, more than 3x that of Spain and quadruple that of Italy.

Added to that, Sweden have been rightfully pilloried for a terrible response - but while it doesn't excuse it they at least had a very strong public health system that they figured could help handle it, while the US does not.

Italy and Spain have some of the oldest populations in the world and got absolutely hammered before anyone could get a real grip on what was going on. New York and New Jersey in the US were. similar, but what has happened since is across the nation is a direct result of Trump downplaying the virus, and even claiming it didn't exist on top of endless other awful comments about disinfectants, malaria drugs, masks, etc, and of course calling for armed uprisings against lockdown measures by his own supporters. They had months to prepare after Europe and other parts of the world were getting hammered and did essentially nothing.

A lot of this is down to population density - Sweden's is actually lower than the US' which damns their approach even more. Spain's is treble that of the US, Italy is six times as densely populated, and the UK is eight times more densely populated. That was an outrageous advantage for them in this crisis, and they utterly squandered it.

The UK can consider themselves almost fortunate for the presence of Trump and Bolsonaro in Brazil, they've still been one of the poster nations of "how not to handle a crisis" but have been quite overshadowed by their right wing/far right populist counterparts on the other side of the water.

Well I was referencing deaths per capita, which they are ahead of the 3 mentioned, what's the point in talking about cases? It's already widely known they are testing absolutely everyone.

Anyway, my point is, its being protrayed as thou they are doing terrible, when in fact they're stats suggest they're currently inline if not better than some of our best developed countries in Europe

The Raging Bile Duct

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I can't see any other leader in US history using this as an excuse to intentionally try and further that divide by claiming it doesn't exist, can be treated with malaria drugs (despite not existing), was made up by his political enemies, refusing to impose any protective measures himself, and calling in his supporters to partake in armed uprisings against certain state governments that did so themselves.

There might be a low "ceiling" for hwo well this could have been managed, but Trump not only went for the floor instead - he began digging to new depths when others around him tried to raise that floor in the absence of anything 4esembling leadership from him.

The last 6 months has marked a real inflection point in the end of the US as the world's most dominant force, and it's hard to see them ever recovering from it to be frank.

Christ, I'm not defending Trump in what I'm saying - the guy is a complete disaster. I guess what I was saying was that everything in America has become so divided that there's never any sense of bipartisanship or pulling together for the greater good. What leader was going to be able to pull it all together?

Trump nearly feels like the natural conclusion of the trajectory American politics and society has taken over the last 40 years or so. When the top three richest people have more than the bottom 160 million, there's something completely rotten in that society.

Tell me how

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be any notion of societal cohesiveness or pulling together in a time of crisis. Individual rights seem to take precedence over the needs of the wider community. Could any leader get the people to work towards a common goal in the US?

I'm in Massachussetts and the Governor is a Republican. He declared a state of emergency on the 10th of March and directed everyone who could to work from home since then, schools were shut, effectively we went in to lockdown.

We have been wearing masks in all public settings and in every shop since May with a very high compliance rate (don't think I personally have seen any one in a shop without a mask and you see most people using the wipes for trolleys and hand sanitiser as they enter larger shops like Target).

Looking back at it, and how Covid has dominated the last few months, what I keep being surprised by is just how easy it would have been for Trump to virtually guarantee his re-election with simply a different tone and by deferring to the experts (who he could have blamed for shut down while still saying he had to take their advice). The difference it would have made to encourage masks and social distancing at the start of and throughout the summer would have made it way easier to prepare for the next big events, schools opening.

His handling of it would hardly be believed if we weren't all watching it in real time every day.

Carfacemandog

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Christ, I'm not defending Trump in what I'm saying - the guy is a complete disaster. I guess what I was saying was that everything in America has become so divided that there's never any sense of bipartisanship or pulling together for the greater good. What leader was going to be able to pull it all together?

Trump nearly feels like the natural conclusion of the trajectory American politics and society has taken over the last 40 years or so. When the top three richest people have more than the bottom 160 million, there's something completely rotten in that society.

I'm no saying you were defending Trump and do agree that he is the natural conclusion of Raeganism (which both parties co-opted to differing extents), just pointing out that just about any leader would have pulled it all together significantly more than Trump has. His response has been so bad, it's almost hard to see how it wasn't intentional to some extent on his end, just an excuse to sow the division even further.

Swine flu in 2009 is an example of another health crisis that was covered far better by American leadership.

salmocab

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Well I was referencing deaths per capita, which they are ahead of the 3 mentioned, what's the point in talking about cases? It's already widely known they are testing absolutely everyone.

Anyway, my point is, its being protrayed as thou they are doing terrible, when in fact they're stats suggest they're currently inline if not better than some of our best developed countries in Europe

They are not being portrayed as doing terrible they are doing terrible. Just because other countries are doing terrible doesn’t mean anything. They are in the top few countries in the world on a deaths per capita. A couple of those countries are statistical anomalies as they are small but deaths per capita is probably the best market especially for western developed ones on how well they’ve handled things. Even with likely fudged numbers they are doing terrible.

Leroy42

salmocab wrote: »

They are not being portrayed as doing terrible they are doing terrible. Just because other countries are doing terrible doesn’t mean anything. They are in the top few countries in the world on a deaths per capita. A couple of those countries are statistical anomalies as they are small but deaths per capita is probably the best market especially for western developed ones on how well they’ve handled things. Even with likely fudged numbers they are doing terrible.

Exactly, he was elected to MAGA, and he had failed miserably at the biggest test he was given. That they are scrabbling around hinting that other countries are making up their numbers or that they are not the worst possible is miles away from what he said he was going to achieve for the US.

abff

salmocab wrote: »

They are not being portrayed as doing terrible they are doing terrible. Just because other countries are doing terrible doesn’t mean anything. Even with likely fudged numbers they are doing terrible.

Now that Trump has control of the data, I think we can expect an improvement that is nothing short of miraculous.

Muahahaha

Anyone know can a one term President run again four years later?

The Raging Bile Duct

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know can a one term President run again four years later?

Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms. It is still possible even after the 22nd Amendment but you lose out on the possibility of incumbency as they can then only serve the one term.

Christy42

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Well I was referencing deaths per capita, which they are ahead of the 3 mentioned, what's the point in talking about cases? It's already widely known they are testing absolutely everyone.

Anyway, my point is, its being protrayed as thou they are doing terrible, when in fact they're stats suggest they're currently inline if not better than some of our best developed countries in Europe

You picked the places hit first or bashed in Europe for their response.

Great they currently have less deaths per capita than some countries in the top 10 in the world. Not an achievement. Italy was also hit first before we really knew how to treat it.

And you need to make reference to trends. I remember when they where compared to Ireland and people left out the trends because it made it obvious they would be so much worse than us. Then as soon as the US was obviously worse they picked different comparisons.

In the last week. Over 22 deaths per million in the US. Spain: 1.78, Italy 0.73, UK: 4.84, Sweden: 2.28. The trend tells us where they are going and it is nowhere good.

Europe got hit first but learned how to deal with it. The US had time to learn from what others were doing and is somehow still in with the worst countries.

aloyisious

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Indeed , but it's telling that his issue with Biden selecting Harris was that he couldn't understand how Biden could pick her after she had been "nasty" to him during the Primary debates.

Once again displaying his incredibly thin skin and inability to get past even the smallest perceived slight.

The difference two weeks make in U.S politics for Don Trump. This Trump quote [29/07/2020 · President Trump graciously said Wednesday Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) would make a “fine choice” as Democrat Joe Biden nears a decision on his running mate.] is from nydailynews. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-kamala-harris-trump-biden-vice-president-20200729-ah7lphd4yzbktp7qpbnbwu2oj4-story.html

Unfortunately the link is firewalled from this side of the Atlantic bu U.S residents might have access to the article & contents and copy/paste it here.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm in Massachussetts and the Governor is a Republican. He declared a state of emergency on the 10th of March and directed everyone who could to work from home since then, schools were shut, effectively we went in to lockdown.

We have been wearing masks in all public settings and in every shop since May with a very high compliance rate (don't think I personally have seen any one in a shop without a mask and you see most people using the wipes for trolleys and hand sanitiser as they enter larger shops like Target).

Looking back at it, and how Covid has dominated the last few months, what I keep being surprised by is just how easy it would have been for Trump to virtually guarantee his re-election with simply a different tone and by deferring to the experts (who he could have blamed for shut down while still saying he had to take their advice). The difference it would have made to encourage masks and social distancing at the start of and throughout the summer would have made it way easier to prepare for the next big events, schools opening.

His handling of it would hardly be believed if we weren't all watching it in real time every day.

One of Trumps main problems is that he can't defer to anyone. His ego just can't allow it.

abff

aloyisious wrote: »

The difference two weeks make in U.S politics for Don Trump. This Trump quote [29/07/2020 · President Trump graciously said Wednesday Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) would make a “fine choice” as Democrat Joe Biden nears a decision on his running mate.] is from nydailynews.

I remember seeing that quote and thinking it was very out of character for Trump to say something nice about a Democrat. Then I figured he must have an agenda, but wasn't sure whether it was some kind of reverse psychology or a double bluff.

I won't be at all surprised if he now issues a clarification saying that what he meant was that she would be a fine choice as running mate for Biden from a Republican perspective, because it would weaken the Democratic ticket.

Leroy42

Trump and Ivanka were big backers of Kamala in the past. Something like $6m in one election cycle alone.\

Seems he used to think she was great.

swampgas

Deleted User wrote: »

One of Trumps main problems is that he can't defer to anyone. His ego just can't allow it.

True, which makes it so remarkable how he practially grovels to Putin. Whatever hold Putin has over him, it has to be huge.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump and Ivanka were big backers of Kamala in the past. Something like $6m in one election cycle alone.\

Seems he used to think she was great.

Huh. In some ways, that makes me nervous. Those two don't do anything that doesn't benefit the #IMPOTUS.

I know, he used to be a registered Democrat. Have you a link for $6m? I've seen plenty of a total of $6,000 ($5,000 from the #IMPOTUS and $1,000 from the Goya spokesmodel)

StringerBell

Not sure how long ago, it would have been her last run for AG though I'd imagine if that would help with a Google.

Trump donated to everybody, doesn't really mean anything other than typical greasing of the wheels that people like him do.

Muahahaha

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump and Ivanka were big backers of Kamala in the past. Something like $6m in one election cycle alone.\

Seems he used to think she was great.

I wonder will Harris refer to that donation at any point