Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub

swampgas wrote: »

True, which makes it so remarkable how he practially grovels to Putin. Whatever hold Putin has over him, it has to be huge.

To be honest , I've never been all that convinced that Putin "has dirt" on Trump.

I think his behaviour towards Putin is part Jealousy/Envy and part Fear.

Jealousy/Envy because he sees Putin as a World leader, essentially leader for life , lining his pockets endlessly and able to remove Opponents and Obstacles almost at will...

Putin is essentially exactly the kind of leader that Trump would love to be.

The Fear part comes from the fact that if he were to admit that Putin/Russia were actively trying to influence the US Electoral process it might expose the naked Emperor so he simply cannot allow himself to even countenance anything other than his win being exclusively down to his Magnificence.

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

Huh. In some ways, that makes me nervous. Those two don't do anything that doesn't benefit the #IMPOTUS.

I know, he used to be a registered Democrat. Have you a link for $6m? I've seen plenty of a total of $6,000 ($5,000 from the #IMPOTUS and $1,000 from the Goya spokesmodel)

StringerBell wrote: »

Not sure how long ago, it would have been her last run for AG though I'd imagine if that would help with a Google.

Trump donated to everybody, doesn't really mean anything other than typical greasing of the wheels that people like him do.

Trump donated to her California AG campaigns in 2011 and 2013 - A total of $6,000 (Trump has never donated $6M to anyone for anything!)

Ivanka also donated

President Donald Trump donated to Democratic vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris in 2011 and 2013.

Trump called Harris the “meanest” and “most horrible” senator when asked about her joining the Joe Biden ticket on Tuesday. Yet he gave donations of $5,000 on Sept. 26, 2011, and $1,000 on Feb. 20, 2013, to Harris’s re-election campaign for California attorney general, according to state campaign finance records.

A Harris spokesman told the Sacramento Bee that she donated the $6,000 to a nonprofit that advocates for Central Americans in 2015.

Trump’s daughter, Ivanka, also gave $2,000 to Harris on June 3, 2014, campaign finance records show.

abff

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Trump apologists really do go to great lengths to defend his ineptitude and sheer evil stupidity.

Very well put! I’m not sure I’m allowed to speculate on the motivation of those who post in support of Trump on this thread (probably not!), but I would be interested to see if anyone can put up a cogent argument as to why anyone in their right mind would vote for Trump in the next election.

Tell me how

abff wrote: »

Very well put! I’m not sure I’m allowed to speculate on the motivation of those who post in support of Trump on this thread (probably not!), but I would be interested to see if anyone can put up a cogent argument as to why anyone in their right mind would vote for Trump in the next election.

The reasons by which they will vote for Trump, seems, as I've said before to have a lot to do with the fact that he is their 'guy'.
They are Republican and so will vote for the republican, no debate, no consideration, no change.

Other reasons will include the following.

• His unabashed rhetoric on America being the best country in the world and the primary country on which the President should be focused appeals to a lot of Americans who very much buy in to the Flag and Country ideal.
• Prior to Covid, the economy has done well over the last 4 years and irrespective of cause and effect, he was President while that happened ergo, why change. Given what has happened with Covid, he has tried, successfully with some people to suggest that it was Chinas fault, not his and this absolve himself from blame. It will work with some, but not all.
• Some have an absolute fear of the concept of care for others and view it as absolutely meaning that they will either pay for it, or lose out in some way so they will try to prevent that happening (irrespective of the likelihood) by voting against the Democrats, more so than voting for Trump.

The reality is though, as with all politicians and elections or votes, the winning side writes the narrative and can claim that everyone who voted form them did so because they have 100% belief and confidence in their ability and strategy and what else can the losing side do then only grit their teeth and say 'Get on with it' See this in the Brexit vote for exactly how this can play out.

Gbear

Leroy42 wrote: »

Exactly, he was elected to MAGA, and he had failed miserably at the biggest test he was given. That they are scrabbling around hinting that other countries are making up their numbers or that they are not the worst possible is miles away from what he said he was going to achieve for the US.

In many respect he, the US and the world have been incredibly fortunate given how almost uniquely peaceful, straightforward and economically prosperous the position he inherited was.


That he's bungled things to this extent is very much missing a political open goal. Even with the virus, it should be mana from heaven for a politician in terms of gaining credibility and support - virtually every leader in the world has, other than Trump (and, I assume, Bolsonaro and Boris Johnson).

He hasn't simply been absent. He's actively made things worse by undermining his own healthcare spokespeople, peddling conspiracy theories and driving racial tensions about the "China virus", making medical care suggestions about unproven (and since proven ineffective) treatments, and having his son-in-law sabotage the national Coronavirus strategy as a means to hurt Democrats politically (which should be seen as a the commission of mass murder that it is and subject to criminal investigation for crimes against humanity and capital murder).


If he came out and said tomorrow that his plan all along was to kill everyone, I'd say that makes perfect sense.

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Grover Cleveland served two non-consecutive terms. It is still possible even after the 22nd Amendment but you lose out on the possibility of incumbency as they can then only serve the one term.

It's worth pointing out that he can be impeached again, and if you're convicted in an impeachment proceeding, I believe it bars you from ever running again.
If Biden wins, it could be something the Republicans might accede to in the homes of trying to wipe the slate clean.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be honest , I've never been all that convinced that Putin "has dirt" on Trump.

I think his behaviour towards Putin is part Jealousy/Envy and part Fear.

The pee-tape stuff is amusing, but the likeliest source is his relationships to Putin-backed oligarchs. With his name being dirt and him being unable to get credit because he kept going bankrupt, Deutsche Bank, a glorified Russian Oligarch laundromat, stepping in to loan him is rather suspicious, as is his flipping of property to Russian oligarchs at a loss.

SteelyDanJalapeno

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Spain and Italy were hit month before US first peak (and Ireland for that matter) feck all was known about the virus's then and China did nothing to help.

Sweden went down the path of herd immunity (still no facts support this is even possible with Covid) and had an order magnitude worse death rate than its neighbours

UK started down same road, and then botched the Covid response at every turn with government sending mixed messages up to and including senior advisors driving across country multiple times to check their eyesight! Undermining all the work done by NHS and other UK sub countries

You picked the worst countries in Europe to compare against, congratulations. Trump apologists really do go to great lengths to defend his ineptitude and sheer evil stupidity.

Ugh, I'm not a trump supporter or apologist? And I can't wait till he's turfed out, I was just reading stats.

If they are the wrong countries to compare against, then what about Belgium with 60% worse deaths per capita, Peru 30% higher, Chile with 6% higher, France marginally better at 7%.

My point is again, it's not as sensational as the media are making out in comparison to the reactions in other developed countries

Tell me how

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Ugh, I'm not a trump supporter or apologist? And I can't wait till he's turfed out, I was just reading stats.

If they are the wrong countries to compare against, then what about Belgium with 60% worse deaths per capita, Peru 30% higher, Chile with 6% higher, France marginally better at 7%.

My point is again, it's not as sensational as the media are making out in comparison to the reactions in other developed countries

The media haven't sensationalised this, it has been Trump and his declarations that it would disappear, that he accepted no responsibility, that it was a hoax. His argumentative battles with State Governors, his pushing for unproven medications, his focus on his popularity throughout which has sensationalised this. Which the media has reported on.

The issue is rarely the problem, it's how you deal with it makes the problem.

Notwithstanding the above, the US has much less population density than Belgium or France which is obviously a factor in terms of the spread of the disease.

randomname2005

Tell me how wrote: »

The media haven't sensationalised this, it has been Trump and his declarations that it would disappear, that he accepted no responsibility, that it was a hoax. His argumentative battles with State Governors, his pushing for unproven medications, his focus on his popularity throughout which has sensationalised this. Which the media has reported on.

The issue is rarely the problem, it's how you deal with it makes the problem.

Notwithstanding the above, the US has much less population density than Belgium or France which is obviously a factor in terms of the spread of the disease.

While Belgium and France are developed countries Chile and Peru are less likely to have good health care and you would expect their outcomes to be worse.

SteelyDanJalapeno

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Ugh, I'm not a trump supporter or apologist? And I can't wait till he's turfed out, I was just reading stats.

If they are the wrong countries to compare against, then what about Belgium with 60% worse deaths per capita, Peru 30% higher, Chile with 6% higher, France marginally better at 7%.

My point is again, it's not as sensational as the media are making out in comparison to the reactions in other developed countries

And none of the countries you've cited were considered to have handled it well. But the likes of Belgium and France also aren't continuing to grow. The US never exited the first wave. You're also looking at potentially 400k in deaths by the year's end. So they're basically on a trajectory where they will be number one for deaths per million.

SteelyDanJalapeno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And none of the countries you've cited were considered to have handled it well. But the likes of Belgium and France also aren't continuing to grow. The US never exited the first wave. You're also looking at potentially 400k in deaths by the year's end. So they're basically on a trajectory where they will be number one for deaths per million.

Agreed, projections don't look good.

SteelyDanJalapeno

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Agreed, projections don't look good.

So, everywhere else has some level of a handle on it. Meanwhile the US don't, so I'd classify that as handling it terribly.

SteelyDanJalapeno

randomname2005 wrote: »

While Belgium and France are developed countries Chile and Peru are less likely to have good health care and you would expect their outcomes to be worse.

Chile's healthcare system is ranked relatively high, 33rd in the world, better than Denmark, USA, NZ, Poland, South Korea etc

salmocab

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Ugh, I'm not a trump supporter or apologist? And I can't wait till he's turfed out, I was just reading stats.

If they are the wrong countries to compare against, then what about Belgium with 60% worse deaths per capita, Peru 30% higher, Chile with 6% higher, France marginally better at 7%.

My point is again, it's not as sensational as the media are making out in comparison to the reactions in other developed countries

There are over 200 countries, doing better than 7 or 8 of them is not anything more than being a bit better than other places that did badly. Your doing exactly what Trump did when he was claiming how good they were doing your cherry picking the places doing bad. Although you didn’t go as far as to claim that they are doing better than the world to be fair. Also when looking at numbers current rates are worth investigation as some countries may have brought their numbers down quite low so a country like America may well overtake them.

SteelyDanJalapeno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, everywhere else has some level of a handle on it. Meanwhile the US don't, so I'd classify that as handling it terribly.

Okay, but as of today, they're no worse than any of the countries I've listed. Fair enough if you're argument is based on projections, that's not what I was referring to at all, as there's no evidence to back them up.

Quin_Dub

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Agreed, projections don't look good.

The Projections look horrendous




A Top end of over 500,000 dead by December 1st and a median projection of around 300,000 by the same date.

~100,000 more people will die in the US before Election day.


You can see all the data and the projections here

SteelyDanJalapeno

salmocab wrote: »

There are over 200 countries, doing better than 7 or 8 of them is not anything more than being a bit better than other places that did badly. Your doing exactly what Trump did when he was claiming how good they were doing your cherry picking the places doing bad. Although you didn’t go as far as to claim that they are doing better than the world to be fair. Also when looking at numbers current rates are worth investigation as some countries may have brought their numbers down quite low so a country like America may well overtake them.

I didn't cherry pick, I simply sorted the live table by deaths per capita, and ignored any country that is not remotely comparable to the U.S.

Unlike what you've done when you say over 200 countries are doing better, suprise suprise Seychelles and the Faroe Islands are doing better than the U.S.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The Projections look horrendous




A Top end of over 500,000 dead by December 1st and a median projection of around 300,000 by the same date.

~100,000 more people will die in the US before Election day.


You can see all the data and the projections here

Cheers, interesting for sure! Grim reading for the South Americas and U.K. who will fair even worse

salmocab

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

I didn't cherry pick, I simply sorted the live table by deaths per capita, and ignored any country that is not remotely comparable to the U.S.

Unlike what you've done when you say over 200 countries are doing better, suprise suprise Seychelles and the Faroe Islands are doing better than the U.S.

There’s only a few countries currently worse off I’m not sure how you could possibly claim I cherry picked when I picked absolutely no country to compare them to. You’ve named nearly every country that’s worse off barring Andorra.
America has made a pigs ear of its Covid response and it even had the advantage of seeing it coming more so than some of the countries you’ve named.
It’s been a shambles from day one and whilst other countries have done and some may end up worse in the long run, America will be one of the worst hit.

SteelyDanJalapeno

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Okay, but as of today, they're no worse than any of the countries I've listed. Fair enough if you're argument is based on projections, that's not what I was referring to at all, as there's no evidence to back them up.

And the other countries in the top ten don't have numbers that continue to rapidly grow. With the exception of Chile, the others have achieved some level of containment. A country with the resources of the United States lacking a handle on the virus at this stage of pretty damning. The most similar country on the list to them is the UK and their handling of it was viewed as atrocious.

I'm not sure why you would think they're pretty treated harshly...

banie01

In election related news from the USPS.
Sorting machines are allegedly being removed from sort centres.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal

Mail clerks sort packages at a USPS Processing and Distribution Center on Thursday, May 14, 2020 in City of Industry, California. (Photo: Irfan Khan/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images)

The head of the Iowa Postal Workers Union alleged Tuesday that mail sorting machines are "being removed" from Post Offices in her state due to new policies imposed by Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a major GOP donor to President Donald Trump whose operational changes have resulted in dramatic mail slowdowns across the nation.

Asked by NPR's Noel King whether she has felt the impact of DeJoy's changes, Iowa Postal Workers Union President Kimberly Karol—a 30-year Postal Service veteran—answered in the affirmative, saying "mail is beginning to pile up in our offices, and we're seeing equipment being removed."

"I don't see this as cost-saving measures. I see this as a way to undermine the public confidence in the mail service."
—Kimberly Karol, Iowa Postal Workers Union

Karol went on to specify that "equipment that we use to process mail for delivery"—including sorting machines—is being removed from Postal Service facilities in Iowa as DeJoy rushes ahead with policies that, according to critics, are sabotaging the Postal Service's day-to-day operations less than 90 days before an election that could hinge on mail-in ballots.

"In Iowa, we are losing machines. And they already in Waterloo were losing one of those machines. So that also hinders our ability to process mail in the way that we had in the past," added Karol, who said she is "not a fan" of the postmaster general. Washington state election officials have also raised concerns about the removal of mail sorting machines.

The USPS interference is my big concern. Seems like the most likely way for the election to go awry.

SteelyDanJalapeno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And the other countries in the top ten don't have numbers that continue to rapidly grow. With the exception of Chile, the others have achieved some level of containment. A country with the resources of the United States lacking a handle on the virus at this stage of pretty damning. The most similar country on the list to them is the UK and their handling of it was viewed as atrocious.

I'm not sure why you would think they're pretty treated harshly...

Not exactly, based on the projections link above, from the current top 10 Chile, Belgium, UK and Peru will fair alot worse than the U.S. by December.
Spain, Italy and Sweden won't be far behind.

They 100% deserve to be treated harshly, as do the U.K. and Sweden

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The USPS interference is my big concern. Seems like the most likely way for the election to go awry.

I have a small packet on the way to me from Illinois, it was posted on the 27/7 and hasn't had a scan since the 1/8. It was sent via express intl.

I sent small packet to California in late May.
Reached NY from here in 3 days, then took over a month to be delivered.

The effort to clog the system and force delay is transparent and criminal.

pixelburp

banie01 wrote: »

I have a small packet on the way to me from Illinois, it was posted on the 27/7 and hasn't had a scan since the 1/8. It was sent via express intl.

I sent small packet to California in late May.
Reached NY from here in 3 days, then took over a month to be delivered.

The effort to clog the system and force delay is transparent and criminal.

If and when Fox start screaming to "respect the result" while the post office and legal mechanisms try to untangle the jammed up votes and the counting therein, then the con job will be complete. The last vestiges of the American democratic facade will be gone, lost in the deliberate obfuscation to make every vote count. The 2000 election on an industrial level. I see Biden as nothing more than a corporate centrist but he needs to win, and win by a landslide. Maybe even a historical one because anything less and America will be dead as a concept. I don't usually go in for hyperbole but it's hard to see the USPS interference as anything else but a Putsch.

listermint

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be honest , I've never been all that convinced that Putin "has dirt" on Trump.

I think his behaviour towards Putin is part Jealousy/Envy and part Fear.

Jealousy/Envy because he sees Putin as a World leader, essentially leader for life , lining his pockets endlessly and able to remove Opponents and Obstacles almost at will...

Putin is essentially exactly the kind of leader that Trump would love to be.

The Fear part comes from the fact that if he were to admit that Putin/Russia were actively trying to influence the US Electoral process it might expose the naked Emperor so he simply cannot allow himself to even countenance anything other than his win being exclusively down to his Magnificence.

None of that explains trumps penchant for failed golf club investments that seem to be able to have millions pouring into them despite ridiculously low guest counts.

I'd be frankly super surprised if all those membership fees ever have the 'members' turning up for a single round.


We've been told by his own son the source of their money. Sometimes it really is that stupid simple.

Nody

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Well I was referencing deaths per capita, which they are ahead of the 3 mentioned, what's the point in talking about cases? It's already widely known they are testing absolutely everyone.

Anyway, my point is, its being protrayed as thou they are doing terrible, when in fact they're stats suggest they're currently inline if not better than some of our best developed countries in Europe

Hey how about we look at the actual trends on number of daily deaths? Here's Sweden, Italy and USA. Note something different on the trends in Italy and Sweden compared to USA and Trump's brilliant handling of Covid?

Sonics2k

Deleted User wrote: »

The USPS interference is my big concern. Seems like the most likely way for the election to go awry.

And that's exactly the plan. Trump put one of his own people in charge of USPS and they're sabotaging it now. The reason is simple, create chaos in the system.

In the event Trump loses, or there's a delay in counting, (hoping he does) he'll jump out and declare it as rigged and missed votes because of a broken system and totally ignore the fact that he caused it.

Nody

Sonics2k wrote: »

And that's exactly the plan. Trump put one of his own people in charge of USPS and they're sabotaging it now. The reason is simple, create chaos in the system.

In the event Trump loses, or there's a delay in counting, (hoping he does) he'll jump out and declare it as rigged and missed votes because of a broken system and totally ignore the fact that he caused it.

Sorry but I have to call occam's razor here. He's out to profit it on a personal level and that was the whole point of his donations as well; he wants to worsen the USPC service to get more business for the businesses he has interest in, from Wiki:

DeJoy's appointment was controversial because DeJoy and his wife have assets between $30.1 million and $75.3 million in USPS competitors or contractors, such as UPS and trucking company J.B. Hunt.

Helping Trump is not the primary focus; normal greed is exactly in the same form as we've seen in the US before and with Tory donors in the UK.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The USPS interference is my big concern. Seems like the most likely way for the election to go awry.

Maul fraud a la Trumps way by the looks of things.

Water John

It's just one letter out and one letter in, maybe twice if you're asked, do you want to mail vote?