Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Retr0gamer

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Can mail in votes be given priority somehow? Can Congress or states do anything about this?

Pretty sure mail in votes are given priority by USPS but again that could be policy and not law and subject to change.

Retr0gamer

While the world is in chaos Trump worries about toilets, showers and his hair:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0813/1158921-donald-trump-hair-showers/

randomname2005

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Chile's healthcare system is ranked relatively high, 33rd in the world, better than Denmark, USA, NZ, Poland, South Korea etc

Never mind so!

randomname2005

Retr0gamer wrote: »

While the world is in chaos Trump worries about toilets, showers and his hair:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0813/1158921-donald-trump-hair-showers/

The toilet thing was a while back, before the world started with the current level of chaos:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/06/trump-says-people-flush-the-toilet-10-times-and-seeks-solution

(I always forget what sources we are allowed use, if the guardian is not okay today, here is one from NPR:
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/27/791707318/trump-vs-toilets-and-showers-dishwashers-and-light-bulbs)

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

That got me thinking can people not send the voting letter by fedex, dhl, ups or any of the dozens of private delivery companies that are so popular in US.

Don't think so, private companies would be viewed as potential interference I guess.

Stallingrad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't think so, private companies would be viewed as potential interference I guess.

This postal take down is next level gerrymandering. You can ignore the polls 100%, this election increasingly looks like it's not about who you vote for, but the ability to vote full stop.

Leroy42

I mean, it is quite staggering that a sitting POTUS, or indeed any leader, would push the line that the the very foundation of the state to which they are in charge is fundamental fraudulent.

And that it is taken so lightly so everyone. Part of it is that of course most people pass this off as simply Trump being Trump, but if one steps back and actually takes it as it is meant, ie that the democratic process is the USA is wide open to both domestic and foreign interference and fraud, it actually quite amazing.

What gets me is that, as POTUS, he is doing absolutely nothing about remedying it. His only proposal is to disenfranchise millions of voters. So the only way that the leader of the US can see to reduce possible issues is to massively reduce the very bedrock of the country itself.

If it is very that Trump is saying, then Trumps complete failure to do anything to protect the system is an even bigger abdication of leadership than COVID (I mean in the long term, obviously COVID is a disaster).

StringerBell

Retr0gamer wrote: »

While the world is in chaos Trump worries about toilets, showers and his hair:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0813/1158921-donald-trump-hair-showers/

His rambling about college football was some of the worst I have seen from him in a long time. It even got me thinking, and feeling maybe a tinge of sorrow for him, that nobody in his life actually cares about him at all.

Leroy42

The very fact that he wants amatuer players to be themselves at risk tells you all you need to know about Trumps thinking on this.

He doesn't care about individuals, he only cares about getting things back so that he can look better. If people die, or get sick and have lasting effects, then he thinks that is a price worth paying.

Quin_Dub

Leroy42 wrote: »

The very fact that he wants amatuer players to be themselves at risk tells you all you need to know about Trumps thinking on this.

He doesn't care about individuals, he only cares about getting things back so that he can look better. If people die, or get sick and have lasting effects, then he thinks that is a price worth paying.

To be fair - He's not been alone in that.

You've had a whole host of people (TV Pundits , Famous former coaches etc. )suggesting that Players going back to football "know the risks but want to do it anyway , just like the D-Day landings" and stuff like that , suggesting that the players are willing to sacrifice their health (or lives) on the altar of Football.

Trump himself couldn't care less about the football or the players , he just views it as a critical component of his "Everything is back to Normal" narrative.

I totally get the importance of College Football in the US , It's huge , bigger than the NFL in a lot of ways .

The Big schools have 100,00k seat Stadiums and coaches on multi-million dollar contracts etc. but the disconnect from reality from some of the people pushing for it to go ahead is just insane.

Penn

Quin_Dub wrote: »

To be fair - He's not been alone in that.

You've had a whole host of people (TV Pundits , Famous former coaches etc. )suggesting that Players going back to football "know the risks but want to do it anyway , just like the D-Day landings" and stuff like that , suggesting that the players are willing to sacrifice their health (or lives) on the altar of Football.

Trump himself couldn't care less about the football or the players , he just views it as a critical component of his "Everything is back to Normal" narrative.

I totally get the importance of College Football in the US , It's huge , bigger than the NFL in a lot of ways .

The Big schools have 100,00k seat Stadiums and coaches on multi-million dollar contracts etc. but the disconnect from reality from some of the people pushing for it to go ahead is just insane.

Yeah a big issue is the amount of students whose scholarships and even housing is tied in with playing sports. Many of the students regardless of their fears of Covid don't necessarily "want" to sacrifice their health/lives to play football (which they do anyway given the injuries that occur), but they "need" to play because none of the colleges are going to still pay for them if they're not playing.

Last Chance U on Netflix is great for showing the insane things these players are put through and the pressures they're under to play, and how much the colleges make off them.

Quin_Dub

Penn wrote: »

Yeah a big issue is the amount of students whose scholarships and even housing is tied in with playing sports. Many of the students regardless of their fears of Covid don't necessarily "want" to sacrifice their health/lives to play football (which they do anyway given the injuries that occur), but they "need" to play because none of the colleges are going to still pay for them if they're not playing.

Last Chance U on Netflix is great for showing the insane things these players are put through and the pressures they're under to play, and how much the colleges make off them.

Completely agree - The way these "Student Athletes" are treated is appalling.

Schools , Sponsors and TV companies making billions of dollars of the back of their sweat and they are one injury or temporary loss of form away from being dumped out of college and left with nothing.

Inquitus

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Completely agree - The way these "Student Athletes" are treated is appalling.

Schools , Sponsors and TV companies making billions of dollars of the back of their sweat and they are one injury or temporary loss of form away from being dumped out of college and left with nothing.

Aye and the vast majority of them never make it in pro sports either, so the one chance they have to earn any money from sports goes direct to their Uni and they get nothing!

Penn

Seeing on Twitter that Trump outright admitted this morning on Fox & Friends that defunding the USPS means they can't process as many ballots so you can't have universal mail-in ballots.

https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1293883405990596608?s=20

I always think of the Rick James bit from Chappelle Show where he's accused of grinding his feet all over Eddie Murphy's new couch.

“See, I never just did things just to do them. Come on, what am I gonna do? Just all of a sudden jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch like it's something to do? Come on. I got a little more sense then that.
...Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch.”

Overheal

Thanks for that, WaPo grabbed the quote and more from the segment:

“Now they need that money in order to make the post office work, so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots,” he said. “But if they don’t get those two items, that means you can’t have universal mail-in voting, because they’re not equipped to have it.”

“They don’t have the money to do the universal mail-in voting. So therefore, they can’t do it, I guess,” Trump said. “Are they going to do it even if they don’t have the money?”

He added: “But therefore they don’t have it. They don’t have the money to do the universal mail-in votes.”

And: “Therefore, they can’t do the universal mail-in vote. It’s very simple. How are they going to do it if they don’t have the money to do it?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/13/trump-blurts-out-his-true-motive-blocking-post-office-funding-mail-in-voting/

So to be clear he's threatened to veto any spending on the USPS since at least April, and now is saying the Democrats can't fund the USPS because he won't let them, and that his motive for doing so is to stop mail-in voting. It's obscene and it should be broadcast and re-shared far and wide, this should not be how a democracy behaves.

I think it's pretty clear They, here, is USPS, but it may as well be the Democrats he's talking about.

Republicans have repeatedly in recent years pointed in the direction of this being about electoral gain rather than their concerns about fraud. Some have pitched Voter ID as a boon to Republicans’ ability to win elections. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) last year suggested that Democrats’ proposal to make Election Day a federal holiday — something that would logically increase turnout — was “a power grab that’s smelling more and more like exactly what it is.”

About the disgraceful postal system sabotage, I haven't seen any of his fans comment on it. I wonder why?

amandstu

Deleted User wrote: »

About the disgraceful postal system sabotage, I haven't seen any of his fans comment on it. I wonder why?

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the seemingly artificial hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

And also make sure Trump can't outspend Biden. (would that be illegal?)

Penn

amandstu wrote: »

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

I don't think he can just funnel money into the USPS. It's under the Executive Branch of the Federal Government, which means it's under Trump.

Retr0gamer

amandstu wrote: »

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the seemingly artificial hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

And also make sure Trump can't outspend Biden.

They can just block the funding and not accept it.

amandstu

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They can just block the funding and not accept it.

Would that at least put it up to them and make it even more obvious they are taking away their right to a mail in vote?

Can they prevent workers from putting in (unpaid) overtime? Would that ensure the mail got through?

briany

amandstu wrote: »

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the seemingly artificial hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

Trump openly speaking about defunding the USPS will likely blow up in his face anyway. The pushback from the left, centre and traditional conservatives is likely to be mighty, with large donors offering to help out, pledge drives, patreons, gofundmes and people simply willing to work on an unpaid basis. Trump could end up doing a hell of a job uniting America, but against him.

Also, didn't Trump say on Twitter a few days ago that everyone in Florida should feel free to mail in vote? (which I recall led to a flurry of accusations that he was saying that because he felt he'd successfully rigged it.). How could there be mail-in voting in Florida if the USPS shuts down?

Retr0gamer

amandstu wrote: »

Would that at least put it up to them and make it even more obvious they are taking away their right to a mail in vote?

More obvious than admitting it?

I actually see this as trump going off script. I'd say his GOP masterminds are going bananas right now. Trump probably got told what was happening and told not to talk about it (I doubt he has the intelligence to come up with a plan like this). Then in the interview his ego gets the better of him and he has to show how clever he is so takes credit for the whole thing and blurts out the plan.

banie01

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They can just block the funding and not accept it.

Wonder if Mike B rocked up to the NY GPO, and bought $1billion in stamps?
Where would that money funnel to?

The issue at hand is that the USPS is under the remit of a Trump apointee, that its internal management and practices are at the whim of the Postmaster General.

Its a glaring fault in the setup of US governance IMO that what passes for the cabinet system there allows for unelected appointment and the current senate is a rubberstamp.

There needs to be a far more stable permanent civil service structure, and the hiring in of cronies and unqualified persons needs to be stopped.
Be it via confirmation on a 2/3s majority or similar.
Add that whilst killing the filibuster!

Quin_Dub

amandstu wrote: »

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the seemingly artificial hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

And also make sure Trump can't outspend Biden. (would that be illegal?)

Penn wrote: »

I don't think he can just funnel money into the USPS. It's under the Executive Branch of the Federal Government, which means it's under Trump.

They couldn't , but someone could for example do a deal with UPS, FedEx et al to deliver all ballots to the requisite addresses at no cost (to the voter), whereby a voter could drop the envelope off at a drop -off point and a courier would take it to the destination.

Incredibly sad indictment of current US Democracy that this kind of theorising is even being discussed.

Overheal

Quin_Dub wrote: »

They couldn't , but someone could for example do a deal with UPS, FedEx et al to deliver all ballots to the requisite addresses at no cost (to the voter), whereby a voter could drop the envelope off at a drop -off point and a courier would take it to the destination.

Incredibly sad indictment of current US Democracy that this kind of theorising is even being discussed.

That wouldn't happen without a change in the law - which Trump would veto. The USPS is solely responsible for carrying mail such as that. Fedex etc. can only afaik be involved as the international carrier for overseas absentee ballots.

The only solution here would be bipartisan political pressure for a veto-proof spending bill; something likely not to happen because Mitch and his GOP cadre know their ass is also on the line if voter turnout is high.

Quin_Dub

Overheal wrote: »

That wouldn't happen without a change in the law - which Trump would veto. The USPS is solely responsible for carrying mail such as that. Fedex etc. can only afaik be involved as the international carrier for overseas absentee ballots.

Ah ok , so it's "Federal post" so only the Federal Postal service can do it..

Makes sense I guess.

Carfacemandog

amandstu wrote: »

i thought Bloomberg was going to put his money behind the Democratic campaign. Why doesn't he offer to fill the seemingly artificial hole in the Postal system's finances up to the election.

And also make sure Trump can't outspend Biden. (would that be illegal?)

Bloomberg was a complete grifter and his being competitive at first in the primaries. is, outside of trunmps election, perhaps the most damming indictment of American voters in decades in my opinion. It truly showed how incredibly attracted to 'the shiny thing' so many of them are, and how many seem more interested in voting for whomever they think might wind up winning rather than voting in their own interest and/or by their consciences. Trumpism will be studied in depth for decades to come as a psychological phenomenon, but I really would like to see some detailed, expert analysis on how Bloomberg (a former republican - including when Mayor of NY - and big Republican donor, it should be added) managed to still be competitive.

People mock all the money he spent 'just to win American Samoa' but doing so ignores that he beat Warren in a number of states and got within a few percentage points of both Sanders and Biden in some too, regularly getting 12-20% of the vote in a very wide field of candidates. It was a damning indictment of a noteworthy chunk on the Democrat side of the aisle.

Bloombergs promised funds are simply not going to happen. They never were and nobody should have ever expected him to uphold that claim. I expect he'll be (and probably already has) made donations, just nothing even close to what he said he would. It was nothing but a cynical, populist lie to garner votes.

aloyisious

This is probably best answered by U.S serving military, or by people with accurate knowledge. Ref the mail-in ballots, does the Military use the USPS to return their filled-in ballot papers to their respective home address voting centres or does the military have separate centres where their votes are counted and tallied?

If their votes go through the same USPS route used by civil voters as happens currently, wouldn't it mean they are as much at risk of being disenfranchised by the current U.S Admin run by the GOP and Trump?

I cant imagine the anger felt if the Admin decided to screw over the military by defrauding them of a properly cast and recorded ballot on the Nov date set aside for the U.S elections, and ditto for any other U.S Govt Dept Pers also obliged to use a mail-in ballot system due to work.

I know the Irish Govt have a set-up for it's personnel working abroad with international bodies and groups. The Military send out a small group with the national & local votes weeks early for its personnel to fill in and return in secure boxes to the counting centres in Ireland.

Igotadose

Israel and the UAE announce normalization of relationships between countries, with the negotiations brokered by the US. Good news if true.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/511838-trump-says-israel-uae-will-open-diplomatic-relations

TomOnBoard

StringerBell wrote: »

His rambling about college football was some of the worst I have seen from him in a long time. It even got me thinking, and feeling maybe a tinge of sorrow for him, that nobody in his life actually cares about him at all.

On a human level, it is very sad to see a man who is allegedly so wealthy and is clearly living with an internal poison and feels so put upon by so many. That said, I'd find it hard to have much in the way of sympathy towards him in his current pity party; rather I'd say it's a great example of Karma...