Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

stinkypinky

Let me first say, I agree with anyone saying the Durham report is likely going to be used before the election to try and swing voters. I also agree with the notion that Barr, when questioned about that fact , has replied in a very slippery manner yet transparent manner - in that, yes, the report will be released before the election and yes, it's blatantly obvious that he's doing Trump's bidding and the timing of it's impact will be obvious.

With all that said, I do think there's a lot of questions to be answered. I believe that Michael Flynn was entrapped and I believe there was a lot of wrongdoing to do with the FISA applications and things connected to the entire probe. Recently during a congressional hearing Sally Yates agreed with Sen Graham that James Comey had gone "rogue". Today was the first real snippet of charges against those responsible.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/fbi-russia-clinesmith/index.html

"An FBI lawyer who worked on the surveillance warrant of former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page plans to plead guilty Friday to making a false statement in an email as part of an investigation into the Russia investigation.

Kevin Clinesmith plans to admit to one charge of altering an email to another official in 2017 that said Page wasn't a previous government source, when he had been one.

Clinesmith had also been critical of President Donald Trump when he worked for the FBI."

aloyisious

Having looked at the general membership of the GOP party as portrayed in the media from both sides of this thread debate, and going on my understanding of it, it seems to me the party is split into 4 known parts, The Tea Party section, The Log Cabin section, the Pro-Trump section and the Lincoln Project section. I'm assuming that there is another segment of the GOP which doesn't seem to have a part in our debate here, and that of a possible middle ground of voter within the GOP who are likely disenchanted with what has been done to the party itself by the other factions and Mr Trump himself.

Does such a middle ground exist in the GOP and [if so] is it made up of different strands of US society: middle class, workers, poor/unemployed, urban, rural?

How do/will they see and react to the practical effects of Trump's policy of voter disenfranchisement across the party divide to ensure his re-election? Cutting out and damaging the delivery of cast votes by knobbling the USPS cant solely effect the Dem mail-in ballot vote as GOP voters use the same system.

Tell me how

aloyisious wrote: »

Having looked at the general membership of the GOP party as portrayed in the media from both sides of this thread debate, and going on my understanding of it, it seems to me the party is split into 4 known parts, The Tea Party section, The Log Cabin section, the Pro-Trump section and the Lincoln Project section. I'm assuming that there is another segment of the GOP which doesn't seem to have a part in our debate here, and that of a possible middle ground of voter within the GOP who are likely disenchanted with what has been done to the party itself by the other factions and Mr Trump himself.

Does such a middle ground exist in the GOP and [if so] is it made up of different strands of US society: middle class, workers, poor/unemployed, urban, rural?

How do/will they see and react to the practical effects of Trump's policy of voter disenfranchisement across the party divide to ensure his re-election? Cutting out and damaging the delivery of cast votes by knobbling the USPS cant solely effect the Dem mail-in ballot vote as GOP voters use the same system.

Isn't that what the Lincoln Project Section is?

Carfacemandog

Tell me how wrote: »

Isn't that what the Lincoln Project Section is?

LP are fairly hardcore Bush era neocons if I recall, a pretty definitive enemy-of-my-enemy situation.

I think it was here that I saw it (and only noticed upon searching for it that its Colbert, which makes perfect sense I guess), but Rick Wilson from then got pretty torn into here.

Rjd2

Carfacemandog wrote: »

LP are fairly hardcore Bush era neocons if I recall, a pretty definitive enemy-of-my-enemy situation.

I think it was here that I saw it (and only noticed upon searching for it that its Colbert, which makes perfect sense I guess), but Rick Wilson from then got pretty torn into here.

Yeah plenty of old school Bush hands who supported the Iraq war and the dismal trickle down economics which made the GOP and America so vulnerable to someone like Trump. That is genuine satire, yes Trump is a worthy target for derision, but he's such a soft target, going after the lincoln project beloved by liberals despite their horrific past was very ballsy. Credit where its due.

The GOP has plenty of different groups, the neo-con warmongers who love Zombie Reganism, paleo-cons represented by Tucker, libertarians (Paul, Massie) and obviously the kooks .

TomOnBoard

My read of the Lincoln Project is that they are hardcore, traditionalist, small-Government, low-taxes, anti-Russia, anti-China Republican operatives who were important players in the Republican Party and it's political system until Trump came along. They see Trump as having bastardised the Republican Party and is trying to make it the Trump Party. They see Trump and his Congressional enablers as a cancer in the body of the Rep Party that needs to be excised. They see the apparent subservience to Putin as particularly galling (and borderline treasonous), as well as the ballooning deficit, appalling Covid leadership etc. Hence the L.P. adverts are currently focused on getting rid of Trump/Pence in the White House along with Senators like Mitch Mc Connell, Lindsey Graham, Thom Tillis, Susan Collins, Martha Mc Sally- all seen as having enabled Trump's demagoguery. Where necessary to give effect to their objectives, they are advertising for Democrats and against Republicans, but that is not to say that they are giving universal support for Dems. It is simply about getting rid of Trump and his enablers, so that once Trumpism has been excised, they can get back to a Republican 'normality' asap and hopefully (in their view) by 2024. It is notable that they haven't yet advertised much against Trump enablers in the House, but I expect that will change.

Ideally for the L.P., Republicans would win both House and Senate in 2020 (without Mitch and Lindsey) that would then control a Biden/Harris Presidency. They would not like a clean sweep by the Dems and I'm sure they'll be working hard on trying to prevent that as we get closer to November. I cant see them offering a cease-fire to mainstream Reps however, as long as the Party's leaders stick with Trump. In a worst case, they also know that IF Trump does manage to win, and Dems win the House and Senate, another Impeachment will almost certainly be launched early in 2021. The sensible "4D Chess" thing for them to do in that regard now is to have Pence replaced as VP by a mainstream Republican, so that a Trump Impeachment would still leave the White House in their hands once Trump was convicted by the Democratically controlled Senate following such an impeachment.

aloyisious

Going on the last 3 posters read on the LP and it's activities within the GOP, it doesn't have the numbers required to push Trump out of the GOP and get republican politics back to its pre-Trump era.

If that's a given, where in the party would McConnell be positioned seeing as he's been in GOP senate political office since 1985? What about the other GOP Trump supporters in that chamber, where would they be positioned? What faction within the GOP would they be aligned with if Trump was out of office [and presumably the GOP]?

I cant see any sense of the LP or other factions letting the canker stay in the party if he loses the election. Ditto those enablers within the party where they would serve as proxies for Trumps children and in-laws. The GOP has as its aim the prevention of the Dems from holding office BUT for it'S FUTURE, which is the greater danger; Trump and his carpet-bagging crowd or the Dems?

Getting back to the GOP party grassroots voters, which faction in the GOP has their interest best at heart, when one looks at the present set of GOP office-holders [McConnell etc] in DC? Where did those office-holders sit in the party prior to Trump entering it? Was there a pre-existing condition within the GOP which enabled Trump to enter it's upper tier and exert his malign influence bringing it to it's present state of disrepair?

If that set of office-holders are the best the GOP can come up with to represent its grassroots, how do the GOP grassroots voters sit easy with the mainstay having the nickname Moscow Mitch due to his blocking U.S election security bills through the senate to protect said elections from Russian and other foreign malign interference?

aloyisious

I asked a question a few pages back about how the U.S military mail-in ballot vote would get to the count centres in the Nov election, with the trouble being presented to USPS likely to cause the voting system to fail those voters. I see on it's F/B page the Modern Military Association of America mentioning a NYT Op/Ed piece dated 14 Aug 2020 on the topic with the headline “Our national, state, and local leaders should resist partisan fear-mongering and support expanding vote-by-mail. If people who put their lives on the line to protect our democracy can agree that no substantial threat is posed by this practice, then politicians, too, should find common ground.”

It seems at least some within the U.S military community families have been looking at how their voting rights may be at risk from Trump and his allies in Washington and are voicing their concern on the issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/opinion/military-vote-by-mail.html

Please note a firewall will possibly/probably pop up protecting the NYT link ownership of the published article and financial costs covering same.

spacecoyote

I'm pretty sure his approval has dropped within the party, but that's from the 90s to high 80s percent approval, so realistically any adversity within the party is pretty insignificant.

If he loses in November though, you'll see them all jumping like rats of a sinking ship to distance themselves publicly

Water John

The LP say they are focusing on moving the 3/5% of the GOP vote. That is enough to achieve their key aim of Trump out. They see him as a real and present threat to democracy. Yes, we know they're classic GOP, low taxes, small govn't and conservative but I sorta take them at their word.

Rjd2

aloyisious wrote: »

Going on the last 3 posters read on the LP and it's activities within the GOP, it doesn't have the numbers required to push Trump out of the GOP and get republican politics back to its pre-Trump era.

If that's a given, where in the party would McConnell be positioned seeing as he's been in GOP senate political office since 1985? What about the other GOP Trump supporters in that chamber, where would they be positioned? What faction within the GOP would they be aligned with if Trump was out of office [and presumably the GOP]?

I cant see any sense of the LP or other factions letting the canker stay in the party if he loses the election. Ditto those enablers within the party where they would serve as proxies for Trumps children and in-laws. The GOP has as its aim the prevention of the Dems from holding office BUT for it'S FUTURE, which is the greater danger; Trump and his carpet-bagging crowd or the Dems?

Getting back to the GOP party grassroots voters, which faction in the GOP has their interest best at heart, when one looks at the present set of GOP office-holders [McConnell etc] in DC? Where did those office-holders sit in the party prior to Trump entering it? Was there a pre-existing condition within the GOP which enabled Trump to enter it's upper tier and exert his malign influence bringing it to it's present state of disrepair?

If that set of office-holders are the best the GOP can come up with to represent its grassroots, how do the GOP grassroots voters sit easy with the mainstay having the nickname Moscow Mitch due to his blocking U.S election security bills through the senate to protect said elections from Russian and other foreign malign interference?

Grassroots?

Why are you assuming that the grassroots embrace a neocon style type politics when you see who is president and how Tucker Carlson a hardcore Paleo con is the most influential voice on cable tv?

With the exodus of the white educated "moderates" to the DNC, the GOP will have to acknowledge to survive their base is now a working class socially conservative type movement. The likes of Tucker, Hawley and Rubio and others tbf have admitted that the usual zombie reganism of "Small government, oversea wars and tax cuts" won't be enough to keep those voters on board.

Trump tbf was doing well with Hispanic's before covid and not as awful with Romney with black voters so their is something to work with their for whoever comes next.

However obviously the obvious issue will be how so many of those working class whites are fearful of those who look different, how do you keep so many different demos happy? Will the likes of Hawley have to keep dog whistling to them?

And obviously the GOP doner's who for most part are hardcore libertarians who loath the big government style government that Tucker advocates for,,,will they have a home in that sort of party?

aloyisious

Rjd2 wrote: »

Grassroots?

Why are you assuming that the grassroots embrace a neocon style type politics when you see who is president and how Tucker Carlson a hardcore Paleo con is the most influential voice on cable tv?

With the exodus of the white educated "moderates" to the DNC, the GOP will have to acknowledge to survive their base is now a working class socially conservative type movement. The likes of Tucker, Hawley and Rubio and others tbf have admitted that the usual zombie reganism of "Small government, oversea wars and tax cuts" won't be enough to keep those voters on board.

Trump tbf was doing well with Hispanic's before covid and not as awful with Romney with black voters so their is something to work with their for whoever comes next. Will Tucker & Co stay with the current trend of Washington GOP politics if Trump fails to get re-elected or will they find a new messiah in the GOP?

However obviously the obvious issue will be how so many of those working class whites are fearful of those who look different, how do you keep so many different demos happy? Will the likes of Hawley have to keep dog whistling to them?

And obviously the GOP doner's who for most part are hardcore libertarians who loath the big government style government that Tucker advocates for,,,will they have a home in that sort of party?

I was thinking that surely the average GOP [grassroots] voter affected by Trump & Co's mishandling of the job given them [courtesy of Covid-19 torpedoing the economy and firms] would have become disenchanted after so many months of sh!te from Trump passing the buck and decided a new hand at the helm would be better, even though changing skipper mid-course can be risky. How much Sh1te must he shovel onto them before they tell him GTFO? NO REPRESENTATION = NO RE-ELECTION.

Rjd2

aloyisious wrote: »

I was thinking that surely the average GOP [grassroots] voter affected by Trump & Co's mishandling of the job given them [courtesy of Covid-19 torpedoing the economy and firms] would have become disenchanted after so many months of sh!te from Trump passing the buck and decided a new hand at the helm would be better, even though changing skipper mid-course can be risky. How much Sh1te must he shovel onto them before they tell him GTFO? NO REPRESENTATION = NO RE-ELECTION.

Ah I get ya.

Its genuinely impossible to know really and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

Maybe some will rationalise a vote for Trump as getting an extra supreme court pick, might be convinced by the Tucker style propaganda that America will be lost if Biden/Harris get the job.....

A lot of the paleocons are obsessed with the culture war ****e also so that could be enough to get them to vote for Trump.

I think most of the leading paleo-cons would acknowledge privately that Trump is a moron but he is a useful idiot for them and then in their ideal world someone who knows what they are doing will take over once he is gone.

Like Biden I do worry about that if Trump were to get 4 years I can't see him serving it. An incredibly stressful job and Trump is in really bad physical condition and 74.

aloyisious

The mail-in vote must be really rattling Trump as he's putting so much effort, helped by the GOP, into cases in courts all around the continental U.S states trying to shoot down the posted-out application forms from the State governments to the voters. The voters themselves much have a certain number noting Trump's actions and asking themselves "why has he got his knickers in such a twist over my personal vote" thinking he's trying to deny me a vote without me risking my life in a voters queue in Nov, I'm not out to rig any election!

Water John

Poll shows GOP voters much less likely to use postal voting.
With Trump making an exception of Florida, it really is a transparent shakedown.
Even Kevin McCarthy is saying the postal service will be given the resources it needs for mail in voting.

Muahahaha

The Michael Cohen book Disloyal is set for release on September the 8th. So far we know that there is going to be details of Trump and a golden shower in Las Vegas. But its going to be a lot more than that, Cohen is saying nobody knew Trump like he did over the last 10 years. A couple of snippets

"I know where the skeletons are buried because I was the one who buried them," Cohen wrote in the foreword, which was published Thursday on a website for his tell-all book "Disloyal: A Memoir. The true story of the former personal attorney to President Donald J. Trump."
"In some ways, I knew him better than even his family did because I bore witness to the real man, in strip clubs, shady business meetings, and in the unguarded moments when he revealed who he really was: a cheat, a liar, a fraud, a bully, a racist, a predator, a con man," Cohen wrote in the 3,700-word release.

Cohen wrote that he was a "demented follower" who acted as Trump's bully, fixer and designated thug.
"I stiffed contractors on his behalf, ripped off his business partners, lied to his wife Melania to hide his sexual infidelities, and bullied and screamed at anyone who threatened Trump's path to power," Cohen wrote.

Cohen is also teasing details on the Russia collusion. He is saying it wasnt a witchhunt and that Trump cheated in the 2016 election

"Trump had colluded with the Russians, but not in the sophisticated ways imagined by his detractors. I also knew that the Mueller investigation was not a witch-hunt. Trump had cheated in the election, with Russian connivance, as you will discover in these pages, because doing anything -- and I mean anything -- to 'win' has always been his business model and way of life," Cohen wrote.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/13/politics/michael-cohen-book-cover/index.html

From what Cohen is saying he was in Trumps offices from dawn to dusk for the best part of a decade. This book is going to be quite the insight of what was happening behind closed doors, Id say Trump is going to suffer some real damage out of it.

It also tends to support the Steele Dossier, apparently one of the more outrageous things from it also happened in Vegas...

Timberrrrrrrr

aloyisious wrote: »

The mail-in vote must be really rattling Trump as he's putting so much effort, helped by the GOP, into cases in courts all around the continental U.S states trying to shoot down the posted-out application forms from the State governments to the voters. The voters themselves much have a certain number noting Trump's actions and asking themselves "why has he got his knickers in such a twist over my personal vote" thinking he's trying to deny me a vote without me risking my life in a voters queue in Nov, I'm not out to rig any election!

The irony is that Trump has applied for his mail in vote for Florida Still using Mar e Lago as his address too, Illegal means nothing to #IMPOTUS when its him breaking the law.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Poll shows GOP voters much less likely to use postal voting.
With Trump making an exception of Florida, it really is a transparent shakedown.
Even Kevin McCarthy is saying the postal service will be given the resources it needs for mail in voting.

I imagine GOP voters aren't being suppressed, harassed or made queue for hours at voting centres so they don't need to mail in their vote.

amandstu

Muahahaha wrote: »

From what Cohen is saying he was in Trumps offices from dawn to dusk for the best part of a decade. This book is going to be quite the insight of what was happening behind closed doors, Id say Trump is going to suffer some real damage out of it.

The odds seem greatly against that.

It is incredible that Trump won the election (not the majority of votes) last time , even incredible that he came anywhere near to winning it when his character was already on full display.

His support has not suffered anything like what one would have expected as a result of his subsequent behaviour in office.

The question has been all along what faux pas he could make that would drive down his popularity (and stiffen the resolve of his opponents)

I would say that BLM and Covid/Economy might be what does the job but fingers need to be crossed (out outcome worked for) all the way up to the election

(have a lot of confidence in KH, I have to say )

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I imagine GOP voters aren't being suppressed, harassed or made queue for hours at voting centres so they don't need to mail in their vote.

They won't have strangers approaching and demanding proof that they are eligible to vote either.

Timberrrrrrrr

Trumps brother has died.

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-announces-with-heavy-heart-the-death-of-his-brother-robert-12050252

Donald Trump announces with 'heavy heart' the death of his 'wonderful brother'

Sonics2k

I am no fan of Trump and his family legacy, but I'm actively disgusted by some of the comments I've read seemingly enjoying the death of Robert Trump, a man who by and large has kept to himself.

There would be absolute war if people jumped for joy at the death of Obama's sister or other relative.

extra gravy

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am no fan of Trump and his family legacy, but I'm actively disgusted by some of the comments I've read seemingly enjoying the death of Robert Trump, a man who by and large has kept to himself.

There would be absolute war if people jumped for joy at the death of Obama's sister or other relative.

What comments?

Timberrrrrrrr

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am no fan of Trump and his family legacy, but I'm actively disgusted by some of the comments I've read seemingly enjoying the death of Robert Trump, a man who by and large has kept to himself.

There would be absolute war if people jumped for joy at the death of Obama's sister or other relative.

What comments are you on about?

VinLieger

Sonics2k wrote: »

I am no fan of Trump and his family legacy, but I'm actively disgusted by some of the comments I've read seemingly enjoying the death of Robert Trump, a man who by and large has kept to himself.

There would be absolute war if people jumped for joy at the death of Obama's sister or other relative.

Just because he didnt seek the spotlight doesnt mean people arent aware that he was just as dodgy as his brother when it came to his business dealings not to mention being up to his neck in the filth the trump family businesses are up to.

The world may simply be a better place without him, pretending thats not true over some silly idea that nobody should speak ill of the dead is kind of silly.

Sonics2k

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What comments are you on about?

Not comments here on Boards thankfully, but take a browse through Twitter or Reddit and you'll see hundreds of them.

Timberrrrrrrr

Sonics2k wrote: »

Not comments here on Boards thankfully, but take a browse through Twitter or Reddit and you'll see hundreds of them.

Sure you're always going to get that on Reddit and Twitter though. Doesn't matter who dies, if they are a celeb or related to one there will be idiots saying nasty things just to sound edgy.

VinLieger

Sonics2k wrote: »

Not comments here on Boards thankfully, but take a browse through Twitter or Reddit and you'll see hundreds of them.

Of course you will, just as you would in the case of as you said if any of Obamas relatives died, the levels of discourse on twitter etc is in the toilet

Itssoeasy

So how long do we think the USPS IG lasts before they are fired ?