Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Carfacemandog

Igotadose wrote: »

And he was born in Hawaii, too.

Oh no question about it... well, apart from those coming from the racists. But those same racists don't have any issue with Cruz not being (nor pretending to be) born in the US because his mom was born there, which nobody disputes about Obama's mom either.

Like the eejits claiming Harris isn't 'really' black because her lineage is from India and the Caribbean (who have had an African diaspora for literally centuries longer than the US has even existed), whether its conscious or subconscious on their part, it's painfully transparent to the rest of us what they're at.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The vote on that Bill had 20 Congress people voted against it. The Democrats were fully in support.

That has nothing to do with what I said. Is this really the hill you want to die on?

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

That has nothing to do with what I said. Is this really the hill you want to die on?

You said Republicans have been trying to dismantle the USPS for years,as though the Democrats haven't been equally enthusiastic in supporting such initiatives, yet the record clearly shows otherwise. I must have missed where this became a life and death issue, but would suggest that you read further on the subject if you insist on such stakes.

duploelabs

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You said Republicans have been trying to dismantle the USPS for years, yet the record shows the Democrats have been equally enthusiastic in supporting such initiatives. I must have missed where this became a life and death issue, but would suggest that you read further on the subject if you insist on such stakes.

As I said before, you seem to be giving out that the Democrats didn't close a loophole that Trump didn't fix either, and the latter is now exploiting

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You said Republicans have been trying to dismantle the USPS for years,as though the Democrats haven't been equally enthusiastic in supporting such initiatives, yet the record clearly shows otherwise. I must have missed where this became a life and death issue, but would suggest that you read further on the subject if you insist on such stakes.

Because they haven't been.

You've taken one act and called that the equalizer while ignoring dozens of efforts by Republicans to dismantle and privatize the service.

You're either ignorant or posting unfaithfully. I don't think that's a false dichotomy to say, either.

https://nhlabornews.com/2012/07/romney-working-to-eliminate-the-us-postal-service/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-us-mail-is-not-for-sale-300726733.html

https://aflcio.org/2012/1/19/how-republicans-crippled-united-states-postal-service

https://www.c-span.org/video/?307572-5/privatization-us-postal-service

https://madison.com/ct/news/opinion/mailbag/sharon-krebs-post-office-s-fiscal-crisis-caused-by-gop-mandate/article_1eb43fa9-ab3f-5c5c-b47e-aeaf18a1eceb.html

https://www.workers.org/2013/08/10387/

https://aflcionc.org/what-many-conservatives-think-of-postal-workers/

https://www.presstelegram.com/2011/12/12/letters-to-the-editor-gop-hates-usps/

https://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/10/postal-worker-talks-back-fox

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/11/18/is-the-u-s-postal-service-ready-to-be-sold-off/

https://www.eastvalleytribune.com/opinion/columnists/patterson-time-to-send-dear-john-letter-to-archaic-usps/article_c7ba4ec4-f5ce-11e0-b3bf-001cc4c002e0.html

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Because they haven't been.

You've taken one act and called that the equalizer while ignoring dozens of efforts by Republicans to dismantle and privatize the service.

You're either ignorant or posting unfaithfully. I don't think that's a false dichotomy to say, either.

https://nhlabornews.com/2012/07/romney-working-to-eliminate-the-us-postal-service/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-us-mail-is-not-for-sale-300726733.html

https://aflcio.org/2012/1/19/how-republicans-crippled-united-states-postal-service

https://www.c-span.org/video/?307572-5/privatization-us-postal-service

https://madison.com/ct/news/opinion/mailbag/sharon-krebs-post-office-s-fiscal-crisis-caused-by-gop-mandate/article_1eb43fa9-ab3f-5c5c-b47e-aeaf18a1eceb.html

You want to highlight failed efforts on the Republicans part, but choose to ignore the legislation that did pass, with wide bi-partisan support. A Bill which has been widely acknowledged to have played a huge role in creating the current crisis.

Why is that? The third link above talks about the very Bill I referenced, so perhaps you might want to read your own stuff prior to posting?

https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2005430

There's the voter roll for the Bill, for you to peruse, since you seem to like to post articles which describe it as a Republican piece of legislation. Please note the tally of 410-20 in favor.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You want to highlight failed efforts on the Republicans part, but choose to ignore the legislation that did pass, with wide bi-partisan support. A Bill which has been widely acknowledged to have played a huge role in creating the current crisis.

Why is that? The third link above talks about the very Bill I referenced, so perhaps you might want to read your own stuff prior to posting?

I highlight their agenda because it is currently being used to remove mailboxes and sorting equipment ahead of a major election.

If you want to keep soapboxing about the 2004 act I think we're done here, you're clearly not open to being corrected.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

I highlight their agenda because it is currently being used to remove mailboxes and sorting equipment ahead of a major election.

If you want to keep soapboxing about the 2004 act I think we're done here, you're clearly not open to being corrected.

It was a 2005 Bill and you seem incapable of doing basic analysis to see that today's conditions were set by this law. So for Pelosi et al to decry the current crisis when they helped create it rings rather hollow.

AbusesToilets

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

This is hilarious in the context of your post in a parallel thread to this

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114333868&postcount=5521

In what fashion? That's a State's Law issue, not one in which an individual can overturn. I am against former convicts losing their franchise permanently.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It was a 2005 Bill and you seem incapable of doing basic analysis to see that today's conditions were set by this law. So for Pelosi et al to decry the current crisis when they helped create it rings rather hollow.

Not at all. The Democrats have every right to be upset at what's happening as does anyone. The 2005 bill doesn't cause this to ring hollow or anything of the sort. It is not Democrats who have spent decades trying to dismantle the USPS. They've literally been trying to give the USPS tens of billions of dollars all year.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

Not at all. The Democrats have every right to be upset at what's happening as does anyone. The 2005 bill doesn't cause this to ring hollow or anything of the sort. It is not Democrats who have spent decades trying to dismantle the USPS

It's not the Democrats fault, in much the same way the war in Iraq wasn't their fault? They en masse voted for the Bill that caused so many of the issues being exploited by Trump today. They've done nothing to try and rectify it, either during the start of the Obama administration, or since they took back control of the House, despite plenty of warning from observers about the problem.

They carry their share of the blame.

Quin_Dub

Igotadose wrote: »

Cruz has that suspicious hispanic surname, too.. Oohers.

His full name is Rafael Edward Cruz , but for some reason he uses Ted instead.

Which was why Trump mocking Beto O'Rourke for only using "Beto" to appeal to the Hispanic vote is all the more amusing.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's not the Democrats fault, in much the same way the war in Iraq wasn't their fault? They en masse voted for the Bill that caused so many of the issues being exploited by Trump today.

And which issues, specifically, are being exploited?

They've done nothing to try and rectify it, either during the start of the Obama administration,

Blatant lie.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/senate-bill/1507

https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/union-praises-house-bill-to-restore-usps-financial-stability/

or since they took back control of the House, despite plenty of warning from observers about the problem.

Also blatant lie

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/17/pelosi-to-call-house-back-into-session-to-vote-on-usps-bill.html

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/congress/2020/07/house-passed-infrastructure-bill-gives-usps-25b-for-e-vehicles-facility-updates/

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/05/05/democrats-to-push-for-25-billion-for-postal-service-oversight-chairwoman-says/

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/2382

Quin_Dub

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's not the Democrats fault, in much the same way the war in Iraq wasn't their fault? They en masse voted for the Bill that caused so many of the issues being exploited by Trump today. They've done nothing to try and rectify it, either during the start of the Obama administration, or since they took back control of the House, despite plenty of warning from observers about the problem.

They carry their share of the blame.

They carry their share of the blame for the financial hole the USPS finds itself in , but they absolutely categorically have no responsibility for the actions taken by Trumps "inside man" that he and Trump are claiming are simply "Cost cutting measures".

AbusesToilets

Quin_Dub wrote: »

They carry their share of the blame for the financial hole the USPS finds itself in , but they absolutely categorically have no responsibility for the actions taken by Trumps "inside man" that he and Trump are claiming are simply "Cost cutting measures".

I would agree with that completely.

AbusesToilets

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Your beloved Trump and his merry band of traitorous republicans time and time again oppose democrats attempts to have former convicts be able to vote.

THe fact you think I support Trump because I would hold the Democrats accountable for their actions says a lot about the level of discourse nowadays.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

THe fact you think I support Trump because I would hold the Democrats accountable for their actions says a lot about the level of discourse nowadays.

But you aren't holding them accountable when you are ignorant of the facts. You claimed they did nothing at the start of Obama's term or since 2019, both are untrue. How can you hold them accountable when you don't hold yourself accountable to collect and gather the facts?

VinLieger

AbusesToilets wrote: »

THe fact you think I support Trump because I would hold the Democrats accountable for their actions says a lot about the level of discourse nowadays.

No your are holding democrats to blame for everything as far as i can see.

Yes Democrats may have been complicit in removing the safeguards in 2004 but Trump is the one actively dismantling the service right now.

Also in 2004 the idea of somebody doing what Trump is would have been inconceivable, he has bucked all political norms and is crossing lines that would have been unthinkable even 5 years ago let alone 15.

Can I ask you a question, should the USPS or any public postal services goals be to make a profit or break even?

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

And which issues, specifically, are being exploited?


Blatant lie.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/111th-congress/senate-bill/1507

https://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/union-praises-house-bill-to-restore-usps-financial-stability/



Also blatant lie

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/17/pelosi-to-call-house-back-into-session-to-vote-on-usps-bill.html

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/congress/2020/07/house-passed-infrastructure-bill-gives-usps-25b-for-e-vehicles-facility-updates/

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/05/05/democrats-to-push-for-25-billion-for-postal-service-oversight-chairwoman-says/

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/2382

The last link, to H.R. 2382, is the only one which looks to address one of the root causes, namely the prefunding of the of retirement health benefits. So I was incorrect in that respect, this year the Democrats looked to do something.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

But you aren't holding them accountable when you are ignorant of the facts. You claimed they did nothing at the start of Obama's term or since 2019, both are untrue. How can you hold them accountable when you don't hold yourself accountable to collect and gather the facts?

They had control of both Houses, yet passed nothing. Doesn't speak to it being of any importance to them.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They had control of both Houses, yet passed nothing. Doesn't speak to it being of any importance to them.

They didn’t have a filibuster proof majority.

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

But you aren't holding them accountable when you are ignorant of the facts. You claimed they did nothing at the start of Obama's term or since 2019, both are untrue. How can you hold them accountable when you don't hold yourself accountable to collect and gather the facts?

VinLieger wrote: »

No your are holding democrats to blame for everything as far as i can see.

Yes Democrats may have been complicit in removing the safeguards in 2004 but Trump is the one actively dismantling the service right now.

Also in 2004 the idea of somebody doing what Trump is would have been inconceivable, he has bucked all political norms and is crossing lines that would have been unthinkable even 5 years ago let alone 15.

Can I ask you a question, should the USPS or any public postal services goals be to make a profit or break even?

I'm not holding them responsible for everything, I said I found Pelosi to be rather hypocritical in her response to the crisis given her and other Democrats role in facilitating it.

The USPS is rather hamstrung by a number of factors, that make it difficult to attain profitability. The pre-funding of retirement benefits is one. There is the fact that mail volume has declined in general. They are also prevented from taking some cost saving measures, such as reducing delivery days. They have to deliver to every address in the US, at prices well below what a private carrier would charge.

VinLieger

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The USPS is rather hamstrung by a number of factors, that make it difficult to attain profitability. The pre-funding of retirement benefits is one. There is the fact that mail volume has declined in general. They are also prevented from taking some cost saving measures, such as reducing delivery days. They have to deliver to every address in the US, at prices well below what a private carrier would charge.

You didnt answer my question, should one their goals to be profitable or break even?

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

They didn’t have a filibuster proof majority.

Something they could have easily changed, and likely will if they win the Senate this time around. The Republicans are not so constrained.

Overheal

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'm not holding them responsible for everything, I said I found Pelosi to be rather hypocritical in her response to the crisis given her and other Democrats role in facilitating it.

The USPS is rather hamstrung by a number of factors, that make it difficult to attain profitability. The pre-funding of retirement benefits is one. There is the fact that mail volume has declined in general. They are also prevented from taking some cost saving measures, such as reducing delivery days. They have to deliver to every address in the US, at prices well below what a private carrier would charge.

Well it’s not hypocritical. And there would be no problem with the delivery if Trump wouldn’t veto the funding it needs to continue. It’s like saying schools should only serve communities that can pay for bus fare. It’s ridiculous. The USPS is as American as the military and should remain accessible to all, especially people who need it not just to vote but for their prescriptions and benefit payments.

AbusesToilets

VinLieger wrote: »

You didnt answer my question, should one their goals to be profitable or break even?

Their goal is to be self sufficient. As a business, they should strive for profitability, but given they are an essential public service, there's a balancing act. I wouldn't be in favor of privatisation, or the general trend of closing small community Post Offices.

On suggestion for improving revenue that I liked was to allow them to conduct banking services, similar to what An Post does. There's a large segment of the population that's underbanked, so to speak, that could really benefit from such a service.

Overheal wrote: »

Well it’s not hypocritical. And there would be no problem with the delivery if Trump wouldn’t veto the funding it needs to continue. It’s like saying schools should only serve communities that can pay for bus fare. It’s ridiculous. The USPS is as American as the military and should remain accessible to all, especially people who need it not just to vote but for their prescriptions and benefit payments.

I don't disagree at all with those sentiments, as I've said.

VinLieger

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Their goal is to be self sufficient.

No their Goal is to deliver post as a public service, profitability and sustainability beyond ridiculous needless expenditure should never come into it.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As a business, they should strive for profitability,

Except as you say they arent a business

AbusesToilets wrote: »

but given they are an essential public service, there's a balancing act. I wouldn't be in favor of privatisation, or the general trend of closing small community Post Offices.

No the only balancing act they need to do is to spend the money they are provided by government funding so it achieves the greatest return to the tax payer as a public service, ie deliver post as cheaply and efficiently as possible, that's the balancing act.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

On suggestion for improving revenue that I liked was to allow them to conduct banking services, similar to what An Post does. There's a large segment of the population that's underbanked, so to speak, that could really benefit from such a service.

Completely agree, but i doubt any republicans would.

Overheal

The Postal Service’s mission is to provide the nation with reliable, affordable, universal mail service. The basic functions of the Postal Service were established in 39 U.S.C. § 101(a): “. . . to bind the Nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people. It [the Postal Service] shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities.” The Postal Service delivers to more than 150 million addresses six days a week, and picks up pre-paid letters and packages at the time of delivery. It provides mailing and shipping services through more than 36,000 retail outlets and usps.com.

Quin_Dub

##Mod Note##

I think we've drained the tank on the underlying causes of the current state of the USPS at this stage.

Let's park the discussion and get back on Topic.

Thanks

Cody montana

The Trump administration announces plans for a new oil and gas program that clears the way for drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

He needs to go.